Clinton Planned the Florida and Michigan Debacle

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

The following words come to mind: gross intellectual dishonesty and shamelessness, Bush in a pants suit. Kitchen Sink.

"While the opposition — and more importantly, her opponent’s potential voters — were relying on her assurances to the contrary, she was already signaling to Florida operatives that she planned to press for counting the anticipated favorable Florida outcome and thereby to capitalize on her opposition’s absence from the fight."

Clinton Had a Long-Term Strategy for Florida and Michigan

Madison Powers, CQ Guest Columnist May 28, 2008

...This coming weekend, the Rules and Bylaws committee of the Democratic Party meets to discuss what to do about seating both the Florida and Michigan delegations. The last two weeks have produced an escalation of Clinton rhetoric, comparing her effort to get the votes of the two states counted as comparable to that of suffragettes, civil rights marchers, and freedom fighters.

...However, the real story of the Clinton reversal may be more troubling than the usual account suggests, and our own memories may well have obscured the real nature of how we have gotten to where we are 3 months out from the convention. The drumbeat for counting Florida and Michigan actually began in late January, before it became clear to most observers that the nomination was not going to be locked up easily and early.

Well before Clinton began her series of primary contest losses, she made public her plan to press for delegate votes from the two states that had violated the rules. Four days before the Florida primary on January 29, and just two weeks after her 55 percent share of primary votes cast in the Michigan primary in which neither Edwards nor Obama were on the ballot, Clinton announced that she would ask her “Democratic convention delegates to support seating the delegations from Florida and Michigan.” Perhaps the rest of us did not pay much attention at the time, but Florida Democratic Party officials took immediate notice and extended to her their thanks for her promise of support.

Contrary to the familiar view that her argument for counting Michigan and Florida is a tactic of last-minute desperation, Clinton’s reliance on counting both the delegates and the popular vote from both states was integral to her long-term vision of her possible electoral path to the nomination. It is —and has been for months — her Ace in the Hole. Hers is not a late campaign conversion or a post hoc, unplanned maneuver.

The effort to press for the counting of Florida and Michigan was a premeditated act, a deliberate strategy adopted at a time when it was clear that her opposition was relying on her representations that neither outcome would count. It was, in effect, a classic case of bait and switch....

....more at the link

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. "You know, it's clear..."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg

[PghTiny]

2. But, but... Hillary only wants the votes counted

:sarcasm:

[sellitman]

3. Or in other words...she is a cheater.

And her followers need to stop making her cheating out to be anything else but cheating.

[GoesTo11]

14. She says that cheating is her main asset

Or fighting, but in her case, they work out to be the same thing.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. It's not cheating

to try to count the votes. You guys have to give up that silly argument.

[cliffordu]

26. And you'll have to give up that silly Cher avatar soon, too.....

[bvar22]

28. Demanding to count the votes from BOGUS elections....

...IS cheating.

[VolcanoJen]

4. As I've always argued, Clinton benefitted from the ambiguity surrounding MI/FL.

Once the matter is settled once and for all, the final door on the Clinton candidacy closes.

[Aloha Spirit]

8. I agree completely.

[PATRICK]

5. The central role

has been one of delay, a bloc of votes that CANNOT be counted that holds the contest in suspended outcome
right to the end. As such, the two states, no matter the will of their voters at all except for the successful gaming by the Clinton campaign, serve the interests of just one campaign. The delegate count, the rationales all come second to this one devastating pocketing of opportunity.

As such, I would argue, the Clintons have more than forced ALL illegitimate value they could wring out of the errors of these two states, and should be finally denied in justice of any further claim on any delegates from those states which would seal an ongoing injustice. The infringement of the two states upon the rules was manipulated into a gain for the Clintons in fact. The received their punishment but the consequences were warped by the Clintons into an advantage that has kept them in the hunt long beyond the natural course of primary dynamics. If the Obama camp wants to call it a wash because IF the rules had been kept or revotes taken in the irony of late primaries now having more importance than the early, conceivably Clinton might have won those states and the usual dynamics of momentum, then his passive reward also should not be garnishing those delegates. In almost every scenario, conciliatory or not, the Clintons have profited both ways from these states. The way ironically they could have most profited was if those states had not challenged the rules in the first place. Trying to find a winning way to use them anyway was great beginning of their ethical fall.

[suston96]

6. Nice article and who cares what the intentions were....Count the votes - seat the delegates....

The Democratic Party is the champion of voting rights - including participation in primary party nominating elections.

The Democratic Party guarantees full and equal participation by all Democrats in that process. Any rules made or papers signed by the DNC or candidates are without force based on the Charter's explicit dogma relating to guarantees of full participation by all members.

My God - the Democratic Party ruling that over 2.3 million Democrats who turned out to vote will not be counted and the reason given is because party hacks and some candidates made a rule or signed a statement that their votes will not count?

We are talking about this Democratic Party? A damnable shame that will take its place alongside the 2000 Florida outrage.

Both elections were about the presidency and both are about trashing voting rights because of party hacks and their meritless rules and deceptions.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

9. championing voting rights means honoring the rules - not committing fraud by cheating

You didn't read the article.

[suston96]

10. The rules punish voters by not counting their votes. If these rules were...

...congressional or state legislation they would be declared unconstitutional as violative of voting rights guaranteed by federal and state voting rights amendments and voting rights legislation that guarantee and protect the participation of ALL citizens in the election processes.

The Democratic Party Charter does for the members of the party what the US Constitution, state constitutions, and numerous voting rights acts and other laws do for the voting rights of all citizens.

These primaries are about the presidential and vice-presidential election process which starts with state elections and which must be protected by ALL laws - federal, state, and political party charters.

Legislation and other rules, such as party rules, which deny or abridge these voting rights have no legal merit and cannot be tolerated and must be dismissed.

Democrats using these violative rules as support to disenfranchise fellow Democrats is a disgrace and an outrage beyond description.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. Hillary was gaming the system, which disenfranchised many in Fl and MI who DIDN"T vote

Its not ok for her to cheat those voters who believed that the rules
of the party would apply.

Hillary cheated those in Michigan and Florida who believed her lies.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

19. The rules punish those who CHEAT & protect those who don't

Many voters in Michigan and Florida were cheated by Hillary's fraud.

[SanchoPanza]

20. Not So

As a private entity the DNC can define the rules regarding its nominating process and the penalties for violating those rules. The ruling of the Rules and Bylaws Committee does not rise to the level of state action, which is the exclusive domain of the 14th Amendment. No arm of the state (or federal) government plays a role in defining those rules, and state action only pertains to the form and function of the primary specific to their state. This is how "Whites Only Primaries" were eliminated under the 14th Amendment.

The courts have already upheld that a national party's right to define their own nominating process trumps the states ability to maintain the integrity of its own electoral process, as in being able to send whatever delegation it chooses to a National Convention (Cousins v Wigoda, 1974). Legally, this is pretty much a lost cause.

[gristy]

11. rules govern all elections

Your insistence in ignoring even the existence of them as well as parroting Clinton's talking points shows you to be either stupid or a liar.

Which is it?

[suston96]

23. Not about Hillary and Obama....support your candidate but never, never screw the voters ....

...and deprive them of or diminsh the power of their votes in order to secure a win for your candidate. It just isn't democratic.

After this is all over and no matter who wins, there will still be a problem with this primary system that violates the basic digma of one person, one vote.

Primary elections that nominate US Constitutional officers are subject to the US Constitution and to federal election laws.

Google the Twenty Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution, which includes primary elections in its explicit language regarding the right to vote.

[blm]

31. you screw voters when you change the rules - do you CARE about those who voted who were

UNABLE to vote for the candidate they prefer because the rules changed?

YOU are selective in who you think gets screwed over.

[blm]

7. madf and I saw it back in 2005-6, that TeamClinton would do whatever it took to get rid of Dean

as chairman of DNC so they could replace him with one of their loyalists who would use the national structure for the Clintons' election needs.

Once their Nov2006 attack on Dean failed we immediately recognized the set up of Florida and Michigan's problems as a way to churn up dissent against Dean as if the problems were all his fault, as long as they could win the media campaign against him anyway. They did not bargain on the intellect of those who saw every deceitful move they were making and would stand against their hubris and distortions.

SHAME on those Dems who push the Clintons' deceits on the rest of the party. You should know by now what the truth is and start RESPECTING truth over deceitful strategies.

[jaysunb]

25. Voice of reason...

and more importantly : TRUTH. :hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Well, of course.

The FL/MI leadership pulled their little anti-Dean rebellion at her behest. It was a DLC plan from the first with two goals: to discredit Dr Dean, whether it worked or not; and if it did work, to front-load the primaries with big states which would guarantee Hillary's nomination - her finances could dominate the news markets, and she had the name recognition, just like in California.

[Boo Boo]

13. Absolutely. She managed to extract commitments from her

opponents to not campaign in those States. That's a win. Put it in your back pocket just in case.

Edwards and Obama took their names off the ballot in MI, but not Hillary. When she was confronted on that point she dodged, saying, "Well, I think it's clear those votes aren't going to count for anything," (or words to that effect) but she left her name on there. I always knew she would try for those votes later if she needed them. Once you understand what kind of person Hillary is her behavior is totally predictable.

Only a fool would take her word for anything.

[berni_mccoy]

15. Front Page Material. Nominated.

[sandnsea]

17. It was always her strategy to offset IA & SC losses

Only difference is she thought she was going to lose those to Edwards, not Obama.

[formercia]

21. Hillary's poison pill

Brought to you by her fellow Fellowship member, Bill Nelson and others.

This has been my feeling all along.

Turn the light on these cockroaches.

Madfloridian's Journal
The Fellowship and its Florida connections. Just how powerful is this group?
Posted by madfloridian in General Discussion: Primaries
Tue Sep 04th 2007, 10:19 PM
I knew Grace Nelson, wife of Senator Bill Nelson of Florida was part of the Fellowship, as is he. I learned more from the Mother Jones article today. She is really quite involved.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1474

[Pab Sungenis]

22. You really believe that Hillary had any long term strategy?

She had no plans after Super Tuesday, so why should we believe she ever planned anything that long term?

[blm]

27. Her plan after Super Tuesday was to BE the nominee and use Fl and Mi problems to dump Dean

so Clinton could put THEIR loyalist in at DNC for HER election.

[K Gardner]

24. K&R.

[frylock]

29. k&r

[AllentownJake]

30. I can't believe this

She couldn't plan for the week after Super Tuesday let alone something this complex. If she would have planned this it would have failed.