Would Hillary even care about the FL/MI delegates if she had the lead instead of Obama

[LynneSin]

This is what pisses me off about Hillary and for those of you in MI and FL - don't think she's out there fighting for your votes. She's not. She's a desperate woman who would be happy to steal an election to win and I think that's total bullshit. And anyone who thinks that Hillary even cares about these 2 states only needs to read the desperation as she 'fights' to get these states seated. She's not fighting for the voters of Michigan and Florida - she's making another desperate attempt to save a campaign that should have backed out sometime after Pennsylvania.

And for goodness sake I don't want that for my next President (yes I'll vote for her if she gets the nomination but I'm finding it difficult do do anything more than that if she does).

And worse yet - Obama, along with most of the other candidates, forgo putting their names on the Michigan ballots as a sign of unity with the DNC that these primaries need to stay in their contested time frame. So if ANYONE is having their votes repressed it's the Michigan voters who would have supported Obama if they had his name on the ballot. You think it's fair to them (and to other candidates till in the race at that time?)

Say what you will about these primary rules but they are there for a reason. When I first started voting - Iowa/NH happened in March now they happen just after the first week of the new year. And if we allowed FL/MI to hold their nominations then what's it to be that in another 20 years we'll start the whole primary season sometime after the inauguration is overwith from the last season.

Hillary has proven she is not a team player and her 'plea' to have MI/FL shows that she really doesn't give a fuck about anyone but herself. These states wouldn't mean a thing to her if she was in the lead. And sure, we might not know how Obama would have handled these states in her position but then again would Obama fight to seat a state that didn't have his name on the ballot?

I truly believe that both Michigan and Florida will have their seats at the convention once this primary season is wrapped up. Unfortunately Hillary has gone too far off the deep end to realize this is overwith. She is an embarrassment and needs to stop this now.

[dchill]

1. NO, of course not.

and if she's won in the caucus states, then there'd be nothing wrong with caucuses.

[SharonRB]

2. I absolutely agree with you, LynneSin

and, as you know, I'm in Michigan.

:hi:

[LynneSin]

6. I do feel bad for your state

But hell these primaries keep moving earlier and earlier and I swear one day I'll be voting in my state's presidential primary sometime right after the inauguration was done for the current one.

I think Dean tried to work with FL democratic party to get a 2nd primary held but they wouldn't do it. Unfortunately the biggest losers in all of this are the voters.

[SharonRB]

17. As far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't seat any of the supers

since this was their fault to begin with, not the voters' fault. We shouldn't be penalized, but I do understand that according to the rules they can only seat 50% of the delegates. If that's 50% of the entire delegation, then the supers should be gone first. No way in Hell should Hillary get all of her delegates based on the sham of a primary. Obama wasn't on the ballot and should get the Uncommitted delegates who get seated. Most, if not all, of the Uncommitted delegates who were elected at district conventions in April are supporting him.

[gateley]

3. No.

She didn't care about them before when she didn't think she'd need them. She didn't care when she signed the agreement honoring the DNC's decision.

[Richard Steele]

4. The answer is a PROVEN "no". Her camp said "Rules are rules" when they thought they were winning. nm

[ccharles000]

5. I think yes.

[LynneSin]

9. And how so?

She promised to united with the other candidates against FL/MI way back when it was assumed she would be the nominee.

And it's tough for me to vote this because I have been a big fan of Hillary and the Clintons since they first ran for office back in 1992 (and her husband since his Keynote address in 1988).

If she was winning, she would stick with her campaign promise to hold FL/MI accountable for breaking the primary rules. But she's not winning which means she's broken that promise. It's not the voters she cares about it winning at all costs even if she has to steal that win. Haven't we had enough with elections being stolen from 2000/2004?

[malta blue]

7. Nope.

She said they wouldn't matter anyway.

:eyes:

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

8. Of course not, nor would she if Obama had "won" those states instead of her

[LynneSin]

10. Good point

:thumbsup:

[PBS Poll-435]

13. But he didn't "win" those states.

And wasn't even close, actually.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

15. Do you think the fact that he wasn't on the ballot in MI had something to do with that maybe?

Obama has gained on Clinton in every state where he has campaigned. If both candidates had campaigned in both states, and Obama had been on the ballot in Michigan, the results would have been MUCH different.

[LynneSin]

18. Awfully tough to win when you keep your campaign promise and not put your name on the ballot

hmmmm.......

[PBS Poll-435]

20. To imply that he didn't put is name on the ballot would not be consistant with

the fact that he took it off.

[PBS Poll-435]

19. Tell me how much he gained in KY?

He did campaign there.

And he opened an office (or three.)

[NC_Nurse]

23. Clinton opened several offices here and she and her family all campaigned

here very extensively. How much did she gain?

[PBS Poll-435]

25. Funny you should ask....

7 points from the first SUSA Poll (3/28-3-30)

12 points from the first Rasmussen Poll (5/5)

9 points from the first Research2000 Poll (5/7-5/9)

Even from the first ARG Poll (5/14-5/15)

5 points from the last SUSA Poll (5/16-5/18)

10 points from the first/last/only Suffolk Field Poll (5/17-5/18)


Not too bad...

[NC_Nurse]

46. Double digit win still, with Bill Clinton living in our state for a month...

Indiana started out double digits for Clinton - Obama got it down to less than 2 points.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

28. Are you equating Kentucky with Florida or Michigan?

As Kentucky goes, so goes the nation? :wtf:

[PBS Poll-435]

29. Um....Responding to the whole "Obama always improves his #s where he campaigns." meme

Not always...

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

30. Well, that's one state

You sure got me there. :eyes:

[movonne]

24. Usually when your name is not even on the ballot you have a hard

time winning...

[PBS Poll-435]

26. I totally agree.

So...

As a an olive branch, the RBC should award him 1/4 of "Uncommitted."

A lot like the home-version of Jeopardy when you end up losing.

[IsItJustMe]

11. The truth of the matter is, absolutly not. And anyone who is blind in one eye and can't see out of

the other eye can see it for what it is. Anything else is just pure bull shit.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. Umm...Yeah

Wouldn't their inclusion just pad her "lead?"

[Bensthename]

14. YES.... I mean no of course not..

Nope

[Bullet1987]

16. Hell no she wouldn't care about MI and FL

that's why she's such a hypocrite. She didn't care about Michigan and Florida until she realized she may really lose.

[MichiganVote]

21. Well on the upside...while the rest of the country is inundated with campaign crap...

we're entertaining ourselves watching the rest of the states. Factually, it really doesn't appear any of the candidates are interested in visiting us much.

We're so lonely it's wonderful.

[LynneSin]

22. Oh give it time - Obama has been seen campaigning in Florida

they'll be around your neck of the woods soon. And Michigan is always considered a swing state (that'll end up D) so enjoy your break now!

[MichiganVote]

31. He's come once to W. Michigan, supposed to come again soon.

As to the "D", we'll see. Michigan is traditionally a very indep. state. Conditions in the party aren't helping. Fortunately McCain is a lousy candidate for the republicans.

[JVS]

34. Michigan got something special

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvlcOK8JPAM

[MichiganVote]

40. Well look, that's nice and its good to lift one's spirits but it doesn't give people a job,

it doesn't stop people's sons and daughter from going to war, it doesn't help our school, economy, lunch programs, business.....

While I can't speak for all the people of Michigan, I have to say, we just don't buy the bullshit anymore because we have too many people telling us the "truth".

We KNOW the truth. We're ahead of the game. The game of wars fought for oil, the market whores who spike up shares and then steal us blind, the mortgage bastards, the big taxes for the little people and the little taxes for the big people.

If this does it for you, more power to you. But for me it was just another stunt by a couple of politicians who, while I like what they say,---have yet to prove anything.

[LSK]

35. where was that Edwards endorsement held?

:shrug:

[MichiganVote]

41. In Grand Rapids. Big deal. Lots of people. Lots of excitement.

No spike in the economy, no new jobs, war in Iraq moves on down the road. If that's all it takes for people to feel envious of Michigan, somebody needs a head job.

[LSK]

42. dont spin the topic to win the argument

You wrote this:

"it really doesn't appear any of the candidates are interested in visiting us much"

We are not talking about ending the war today or giving everyone a new job next week. We are talking about candidates visiting Michigan.

Dont deflect the discussion.

You know damned well it will take a Dem President and a near 60 Dem Senate to change our trade laws and economic policies. Jesus Christ himself giving speeches will not create jobs in Michigan without new trade laws and economic policies.

[MichiganVote]

47. Oh, ok. Let's get specific. Clinton-1x. Obama-1x. McCain- 2x.

Gonna take more than that to win an independent state like Michigan.

[NC_Nurse]

27. She doesn't care now. Her "caring" is based on staying in the race, not on

principle. She cares about it now just like she cares about "being against NAFTA" from the beginning, and getting PR votes in the GE,
and puppies and kitties and doing shots.

It's all her desperate flailing to somehow get the nomination. The more she dramatizes FL and MI with all the suffrage and civil rights comparisons and
the ridiculous Zimbabwe comparison, the more laughable it all becomes.

[AtomicKitten]

32. K&R because this post has precisely the right amount of cowbell.

:thumbsup:

[Perry Logan]

33. Links like this prove the Obamites are worried.

They declare victory over and over again. So why can't they leave off? Are they trying to bore us to death?

[tandot]

36. She would have cared as much as Obama cares about it now

and, if Obama wouldn't be be our presumptive nominee, he would raise hell to have those states seated. And none of the Obama supporters would think there would be anything wrong with it.

:shrug:

[LynneSin]

52. Yes but both her and Obama made pledges to stick with the rules and...

Obama stuck with the other democratic candidates and did not submit his name in Michigan.

So we'll never know what Obama did but if he were behind right now he would have bowed out probably after Pennsylvania. Not make an ass of himself so he could set himself up for another run in 2012 or 2016.

[TahitiNut]

37. Read ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6159157

[NorthCarolina]

38. Or would she still see the importance of seating the delegates if

Obama had also disregarded their signed pledge, campaigned in both states and had won a commanding lead there? The correct answer of course is ABSOLUTELY NOT. She's not fighting on behalf of fairness towards MI and FL delegates. Quite the contrary, she is only fighting to try and better her standing in this race. That's how disgustingly disingenuous she is.

[SeattleGirl]

39. Of course she wouldn't. If Florida, especially, were so important,

why wasn't she raising her voice in 2000?

And why does she refuse to include the caucus states (like mine) in her funny math about why she's "winning"?

What angers me the most is that she is trying to change and/or ignore the rules that were in place BEFORE a single vote was cast.

[Az_lefty]

43. No, in fact she didn't care about them until she got into trouble politically

[UndertheOcean]

44. Of course not

[apocalypsehow]

45. Hillary cares about no one or anything but Hillary, and what's good for #1. n/t.

[nichomachus]

48. She most definitely would

The Florida-Michigan debacle was endorsed by the Hillary gang because it was a trap that the DNC walked right into.

Win, lose, or draw, Hillary was going to demand that the delegations be seated.

If the DNC refused, then Hillary and her band of merry harpies would shriek "Disenfranchisement" until your ears bled, painting the DNC as undemocratic -- as they are now.

If the DNC caved, then it would lose any authority within the party.

At the end, Hillary and the stealth Republicans in her DLC would run the party instead of the DNC. This has been the Clinton's goal all along. Hill and Bill want to be the head of the party, with the DLC as their courtiers.

The whole FL-MI thing was a setup to cut the legs off the DNC.

If Hill had won on Super Tuesday, as she thought she would, she could still play the Benevolent Mama and demand their seating -- again, just to cut the balls off the DNC, which the Clintons hate -- and because she would have been the presumptive nominee, then the DNC would have had to comply.

It was always win-win-win for Hill and Bill. All they want is power and they don't care who they screw over to get it.

[Raine]

49. No way... nt

[suston96]

50. Counting every vote is stealing an election? And this is a Democratic forum board?

The primary season ends when all the primaries are done - when all the votes are counted - when ALL the delegates are certified and seated - and when the convention calls the roll and counts the delegates preferences.

[LynneSin]

51. Offers were made to FL & MI to rescheduled their primary and re-do them

and what about all the people in Michigan who didn't have anyone to vote for since all of the candidates cept one vowed to stick to the plegde of not running in MI.

Sorry, if Hillary had the nomination wrapped up OR if some some bizarre reason Obama won one or both of those states this would be a NON issue.

The DNC made rules and it was the state democratic parties of MI and FL that disenfranchised all those voters. Hillary just wants to cheat to win.