I do not want Wes Clark anywhere NEAR an Obama ticket!!!!

[my3boyz]

DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was on Dan Abrams kissing Hillary's butt as always! He even defended Karl Rove of all people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was talking about how brilliant Karl Rove is and that Hillary should use his numbers to prove her case. Then you could tell he was upset when Abrams kept teasing him about being on Obama's ticket! Oh and he seemed to confirm that Clinton will appeal if she does not get her way Saturday (and she will not). I'm not sure what she promised him but he won't say a nice thing about Obama when he knows Obama will be the nominee.

[Sparkly]

1. Very inaccurate paraphrase.

:eyes:

[cbc5g]

2. I saw it too and its not inaccurate..embellished, yes, inaccurate, no.

I didn't like his attitude on the show. He looked defeated and angry like many Hill die hard supporters.

[Sparkly]

4. I saw it completely differently.

Which is why it's important to stick with direct quotes and video and leave the interpretations up to the beholders.

[polmaven]

26. he did not look the least BIT

"defeated and angry". He looke determined and confident.

[BlooInBloo]

63. Um, it's not possible to be both embellished AND accurate.

[Demobrat]

3. Clark dropped out last time when

it became apparent he wasn't going to be handed the nomination on a platter. He wasn't willing to work for it, and I really seriously doubt whether Obama is going to want somebody on the ticket who isn't willing to work.

[Sparkly]

5. Bullshit.

He worked tirelessly for his campaign, and then worked tirelessly for Kerry.

[Dinger]

23. And Then worked Tirelessly In 2006 To Get Dems Elected

And he was VERY successful.

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[CarolNYC]

69. Sheer stupidity

OK, you guys are pissed that Wes doesn't think that Clinton is a monster and Obama the messiah. You're pissed that he would suggest that when people vote their votes should be counted. But for you to say that Clark, who's worked harder than anyone else for the Democratic Party since he decided to run for President at the request of thousands of people (like me), isn't willing to work is just sheer stupidity. You people have gone completely off the rail. I certainly want no part of what you are drinking. Sad.

[TexanDem]

6. I saw it too -- don't think embellished or inaccurate. I also scratched him off my short list!

[Cha]

7. Then that puts that speculation to rest that he

could ever possibly be Obama's VP. End of story. And if anyone brings it up I will refer them to your post..thanks.

I'm really sorry to hear this.

I feel the same about hilary ever being on Obama's ticket, too. Too many good people to chose from who acutally GET IT.

[ProSense]

8. Ah, the brilliant

Karl Rove.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. Actually, I thought he came across as kind of unenthusiastic,

like he was just going through the motions. He has been supporting and campaigning for Hillary since last fall, which is certainly his right as a long-time friend, but he didn't exactly set the world on fire with his comments this evening. He has been much more articulate in other discussions on other topics -- here, he was just reciting talking points about how they have to count every vote. He also defended her IRW vote, saying she really was against the war, just wanted to get the UN involved, which was totally lame. I was disappointed in him -- not because he's supporting Hillary, but because he was doing such a piss-poor job of it. Clark is a very smart guy and I think he knows it's over but feels obligated, maybe out of loyalty, to keep up the pretense that she has any credible argument for continuing. I'd be happy to see him as Obama's running mate, nevertheless.

[TexanDem]

16. I agree that he did seem robotic and uninspired; which also helped me to eliminate him >

I have had him at the top of my list for VP; but the things he said, his manner, dare I even say his mood, was just completely unworthy of what a VP should be. I was really disappointed. I'll scratch his name out in pencil in case he later comes around; but my enthusiasm for him is greatly dampened.

[woolldog]

39. I guess you missed my thread about a week ago saying this about him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6037561

He doesn't come off well in his media appearances.

[TexanDem]

47. yes, I had -- thanks - that was very interesting...>>>

I was equally supporting him and Dean for their run in '04. But I do agree, he didn't come across well in his presentation; but he's so smart, has so much experience, and has a kind and gentle demeanor, that I forgave him his inexperience with the ways of Washington. It's clear he's not a politician. This interview you posted pretty much shows the same thing, only I think he did better then than he did today. Maybe it's because of my own disdain for Hillary that I don't find his raving support of her as sincere. I would think he's too intelligent to sell himself out to rattle off the talking points of her "success" like that. I think he might serve better as Secy of Def rather than on the ticket. I'm really losing a taste for that position for him.
thanks for the link.

[Eurobabe]

58. I worked for Clark in 2003-4, and this was his biggest

problem with the audiences, etc. He is very stiff and reserved. He could serve in a cabinet position, but I don't think he is VEEP material anymore.

edit: he basically lost me when he endorsed Hillary for Queen. I didn't want to believe what I had heard about how he was brought in to kneecap Howard Dean, but I believe it now, esp. after hearing that he would defend KKKarl of all people? :wtf:

[ErinBerin84]

10. mentioned this in another thread

It wasn't just the Hillary talking points that got to me, it's just that I don't think his argument against the Republicans came off as very strong on Dan Abrams tonight. Lol. I do like him in theory though. This is the third potential VP that has disappointed me the last two weeks in their tv appearances (which of course doesn't neccesarily mean anything, but Webb-who, for what it's worth, really impressed me with some of his arguments, but I think he kind of copped out on criticizing McCain on the GI bill the last time I saw him-, Richardson, and now Clark). I said this in another post too, but Biden continues to impress me with being effective in his attacks on the pubs, I wish he wasn't in the Senate god damnit.

[Max_powers94]

11. I do not want any Clinton people near Obama's ticket

[Clintonista2]

50. Ahhh the old Obama "unity"

:eyes:

[leftynyc]

71. How about her voters

Do you want them aboard?

[David Zephyr]

12. I'd like to see the video to make up my own mind, but I'm listening to your view, my3boyz

And I appreciate you sharing your opinion here. I would like to see the video, but praising Karl Rove, who has the blood of nearly 1 million Iraq civilians on his hands, who maliciously ruined the careers of many fine attorneys for "politics", who helped engineer the stealing of the 2000 election, who trashed the sterling military record of John Kerry, who politicized the Justice Department, who fearmongered the American public...

There's never to be any praise of such a vile human creature.

[my3boyz]

20. I guess I could have been clearer. He said Hillary should use his facts

because Karl Rove is a brilliant( could have said good...I don't remember..I was too ticked) strategist. Then he pointed to how he helped Bush win twice. Abrams called him on it and said didn't he think Rove had a reason for putting those numbers out there? He said don't you think he wants to keep this going or something like that. Clark seemed to believe that that was a possibility. Then he said sometimes good things come from the devil or something to that effect. So he did step back a little. He turned me off when he started talking about what a good strategist Rove is..........

[Inspired]

13. I wondered why anyone thought he would be a good VP choice for Obama.

It never made sense to me.

He was ALWAYS #1 on Hillary's short list. That is the only reason he ran in 2004 by the way. It was for Hillary.

[crankychatter]

14. his willingness to harp about "counting the votes" did it for me

there's never been a more obvious piece of bullshit

how he could subscribe to that, appalls me

[my3boyz]

24. Yup! I felt my bp going up everytime he repeated that phrase! nt

[KaryninMiami]

15. I watched it too and I agree. Totally shifted my view of him as potential VP for Obama

Now it's time to move on and consider someone different.

[Schema Thing]

17. As a longtime Clarkie, who is on the verge of being an ex-Clarkie

I was far more troubled by the "we have to count every vote, that's what's important" meme he was pushing.


That is shorthand for, "c'mon America, allow Hillary to cheat her way to the nomination by counting votes that everyone agreed ahead of time would not be legitimate, while ignoring millions of other votes".



Sorry sir, there are limits to how far out of your character you can step and still have my admiration.

[rebel with a cause]

32. I agree

I was angered when the Clintons did not come out to support him in 2004 and dissapointed when he chose to support her this year. But I kept an open mind about him. Now I have to say, that if this is true, he is off my list of people I would support for a government position.

[Cha]

67. I didn't even know that ..

"we have to count every vote, that's what's important" meme he was pushing."

Jeeze, 2000 all over again in reverse. Holy Orwell!

[XemaSab]

18. I heard a nasty rumor

that teh Clintons had him run in 2004 to siphon votes away from Howard Dean. x(

[w13rd0]

31. Don't want to encourage a nasty rumor...

...but take a look at any timeline.

[Double T]

19. Wes Clark would NEVER be that stupid.

[Occam Bandage]

21. I didn't want him anyway. He's a joke.

The most surreal moment came when the Iraq questions were getting tougher, and Clark called for his press aide Mary Jacoby. "Mary, help!" the retired general cried, in a moment that could define him, and not as the tough military leader his supporters tout him as. The soothing Jacoby reminded Clark, "You said you would have voted for the resolution as leverage for a U.N.-based solution."

Hands down, the most embarrassing moment in recent political history. Oh, and this one:

And later, in an interview with the Miami Herald, he seemed to endorse a moratorium on the death penalty, because there has been "a lot of discrimination and a lot of injustice," and suggested cases be reviewed with DNA evidence. But when the reporters asked if he'd back a halt to executions, they noted, "Clark sat up straight. 'Stop. Stop,' he said. 'I promised I wasn't going to take a strong position.'" He defended his lack of policy prescriptions and "strong positions" by noting that he only made his decision to run on Monday, VandeHei noted, and asked that voters give him time to think things through.

Not to mention that he had no idea what the Brady Bill was, and couldn't decide whether he was for or against approving Bush's war funding bills.

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2003/09/19/clark/index.html


On edit: Wow, it's kind of surprising how quickly I flashed back to fuck-Clark Deanie Baby mode.

[cbc5g]

22. Richardson is at the top of my list now, perhaps Clark can redeem himself n/t

[Jerseycountryman]

25. i like Wes Clark, but I'm open to Edwards too

There are a lot of good choices; but I believe a Southerner needs to be picked in order to help Obama turn some Southern states blue.

[jefferson_dem]

27. My respect for Wes has diminished greatly since he endorsed ... her.

She's like poison. Everything she touches...

[liberaldem4ever]

28. I watched it too-he didn't seem like himself

He seemed kind of angry and frustrated, IMO. One thing I've always liked about him was how likable and intelligent he could be at the same time. He didn't seem like either of those tonight to me. Maybe he was having a bad day. :shrug:

[my3boyz]

30. He did seem angry. Even when Dan was teasing him he gave him this stern look. nt

[liberaldem4ever]

35. He used to laugh a lot in interviews

[ErinBerin84]

37. yeah, I agree. Something unsettled me about him tonight.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. He knows it's over

and he can't come up with a credible defense for Hillary refusing to drop out. He's stuck with talking points, which must be frustrating. Before I toss him under *my* bus, though, I want to see what he says when they finally do pull the plug on her campaign. To be fair, he's one of the few Hillary supporters who hasn't spent most of his time libeling Obama.

[Jersey Devil]

29. Regardless of his appearance, he'd be a bad choice

I have never understood why people think a good general would necessarily make a good president (or veep). Clark has zero political skills as far as I know and a veep has to be someone with a keen eye for political issues.

[woolldog]

33. heh

I saw him on abrams too. Pretty awful isn't he?

[livingmadness]

34. Bugger! I went from Sebelius to Webb, lately to Clark

oh well ... thats it. Edwards it is!!!

[Kermit77]

41. Obama's VP should not be Clark, it should be Gen. Ricardo Sanchez

At least I hope I got his name right. It the Hispanic General who was head of the Iraq dibacle and he recently stated that the war was a failure.

He has the military and leadership experience along with the hispanic vote. With him we could get Nevada, Colorado and New Mexico.

I hope he is being vetted though.

[IsItJustMe]

36. I do believe he sold his soul to the devil in that interview. Piss on him.

[backscatter712]

40. Respect-- for Clark.

He was doing nothing but parroting the already-debunked talking points from the Hillary camp. Weak.

[Carolina]

42. Wes has diminished himself

by saying shit in an effort to cover for Shrillary.

On Iraq, Hi-liar-y claims she trusted Bush which alone shows poor judgment. But we know the real truth:
- she didn't bother to read the NIE report
- she didn't bother to ask critical questions
- she didn't bother to heed the warnings of some of the 23 Senators who voted NO
- she didn't heed her NY constituents who called, faxed and emailed their opposition

She was coldly, calculatingly doing what she thought was politically expedient for this very POTUS run.

On counting all the votes that only mattered to HRC after super Tuesday and on praising KKKarl Rove, there is no redemption.

Fuck the Clintons and shame on you, Wes Clark.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

45. It's like the Borg assimilated him. I hope he snaps out of it soon.

[MrSlayer]

43. I do.

Wes is my man. I wish he were the nominee.

[DesEtoiles]

44. He's got the crazy eyes. That always bothered me.

[windbreeze]

56. Would you care to explain that crazy statement?

I can tell you I have looked directly into his eyes, and they are anything but crazy...wb

[scarletwoman]

65. !!!

:rofl:

[DesEtoiles]

46. He was defending Rove- when he should be calling for Rove's indictment. Sick.

[mod mom]

51. He failed to recall how triumpant rove was in '06 or methods that lead to his

"victories" in 2000 and 2004.

Rove definitely deserves indictment!

[windbreeze]

52. Was he defending Rove, or simply admitting that he's a brilliant

strategist?...there IS a difference...and Rove IS a brilliant strategist..of that there NO doubt, why was it wrong for him to say so???...I know Clark and I still think he's a great guy....a lot of people discounted him, just because he was a General, w/o paying attention to what he was saying...I supported him from 2003 on...there was a lot of bullshit said about him that wasn't true when he campaigned, and it's hard to make headway when there's a media blackout on you...Frenchie can debunk most of the garbage single handed...

As for him supporting Hillary...he had a choice, just like all of us did...I was disappointed that he didn't run, but also understood what he went through the last time...I have a hard time figuring out why anyone would subject themselves to the rigors of running for office, especially if they don't have too...he gave 37 years in service to his country, he didn't/doesn't owe anyone anything...

I suspected he wouldn't run again...Clark's a good guy, don't discount him so easily...IF he was uncomfortable and didn't give a good interview, there's a reason...I think we all have off days, right?? He isn't allowed one?? He has to be perfect at all times? He has worked his ass off for veterans and for other Democrats....He helped put a lot of Democrats into office...Let's give credit where it's due, shall we??? maybe even cut him just a little slack...thanx, cause I don't know anyone else that worked quite as hard for Kerry as he did, or for other Democrats since....wb

[TexanDem]

48. YouTube link of one of the segments on Dan Abrams >>>

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LGXDLfqswlk

[Hieronymus]

49. Clark is obviously too beholden to the Clintons and the DLC.

[Orangepeel]

53. Not kissing Clinton's butt on Abrams' is WAY down on my list of criteria for a VP

It is probably even farther down Obama's list.

Like Obama said, he's a practical minded guy. He's going to pick the person that he thinks will help him win and help him govern. It might even be Hillary. If the VP turns out to be a hindrance, he can always send him or her on an 8 year worldwide good will tour.

[krawhitham]

54. Karl Rove is brilliant

He got monkey boy elected TWICE, and do not hand me this shit it was stolen both times. It should not have been close enough to steal. Shrub is a dumb as a rock, it should have been 45 states to maybe 5. But no Karl fucking Rove fooled America into thinking Bush was potus material

[tokenlib]

55. OK, as a former Clark supporter I'm really disappointed...

Although he wasn't as irritating as some of the other Clinton surrogates--he is still pushing the Clinton crap. I don't know if he was upset or embarrassed--but he didn't laugh off the promos from Lawrence O'Donnell who has been promoting him as the ideal VP candidate. I was really disappointed as he seemed in Hillary's fantasy land like her other surrogates. I really expected Wes to be a little more restrained and realistic now. Maybe his sense of loyalty and duty has him tied up in knots..

I'm going to hope by next Wednesday--sanity and reality beat some sense into the Clinton camp.

[Milo_Bloom]

57. Unfortunately, Wes Clark is a sell out...

Who sold out to the wrong side and is paying the price, as is fairly obviously from his Scott Mcclellan like defense of Clinton.

However, he would still make a good choice for VP

[mystieus]

59. I never wanted him a VP and found it odd so many here thought he could physically remove himself fro...

The Clinton's. He's too much of a mouthpiece for Hillary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGXDLfqswlk

Knowing this will hurt the party he carries on anyway

[elleng]

60. 'Upset?' 'Teasing?'

Wake up and pay attention.

[Califooyah Operative]

61. I like Clark but he was dead wrong.

I don't want him as the V.P. choice either.

[dkf]

62. I feel for ex-Clarkies. I'm so glad I still feel proud of my original guy, Howard Dean.

Thank goodness.

[Cha]

66. I was just thinking..if Dean pulled something

like this I would be so pissed at him.

[newmajority]

64. Well, I guess that settles it then.....

Here are the next President and Vice President of the USA.....

[TexasObserver]

68. He's a joke.

[shaniqua6392]

70. None of us can do a damn thing about who Obama chooses as a running mate.

People crack me up when they say things like, "I have just scratched him/her off my short list" or "I will not allow Obama to choose him/her for VP". What the hell is wrong with people? You don't have any say about it anyway. General Wesley Clark is an honorable man who has done a great deal for the Democratic Party. Just because you don't like Clinton does not mean that you can crap on good Democrats who are her supporters. She has a lot of supporters. Get over it already. It is so adolescent to say I don't like him because he likes her, etc. Ugh.