Judge in FL delegates case: "I don't live in a cave"

[madfloridian]

The 2nd or 3rd lawsuit filed by Victor Dimaio of Tampa against the DNC was dismissed yesterday. I thought the comments by the judge were interesting.

Suit over delegates rejected.

U.S. District Judge Richard Lazzara cited what he said is an established legal principle: The First Amendment guarantee of freedom of association gives political parties the right to set their own rules for choosing their presidential nominees.

..."Lazzara rejected allegations of reverse racial discrimination in the lawsuit filed by Victor DiMaio and lawyer Mike Steinberg, chairman of the Hillsborough County Democratic Party. They said they will appeal to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta, and seek consideration by the U.S. Supreme Court."

.."Lazzara said in announcing his decision that there was "not one scintilla of evidence" that the party was engaging in racial discrimination by allowing Nevada and South Carolina to have early primaries.

"I don't live in a cave, and I know that there are many people out there who are disgruntled" by the sanctions, Lazzara said, but, "The Democratic National Committee put everyone on notice that these were the rules everyone had to live by. The Florida Legislature in its infinite wisdom, for whatever reason, decided to ignore those rules."

There is still a lawsuit pending by Florida Senate minority leader, Steve Geller

DiMaio intends to keep going to the Supreme Court. I just saw him on local TV, and his feelings seem to be hurt. He is pushing ahead anyway.

I have long believed they will continue in some way or the other, no matter the RNC ruling on Saturday.

I believe they use the FL and MI debacle to paint the nominee, Barack Obama, as one who is not legitimate.

I hoped I was wrong. Her supporters have become so filled with rage and unreasoning anger that every lawsuit, every protest, every new group formed to push the issue...just gets more and more vicious.

The former first couple have, by sending their surrogates out to preach division and lack of respect to the party...tarnished themselves irreparably.

[democrattotheend]

1. Slightly off-topic question

If the Florida delegates were seated as is, how many delegates would they each get? And how many does Edwards have? I know at least 2 of them have pledged to Obama...anyone know what the deal is with the rest of them?

[dsomuah]

14. It doesn't look good

Well The ABSOLUTE best case scenario for Hillary would be:

1. Seat the Florida delegates as is.
2. Seat the Michigan delegates as is which would mean
a. Hillary gets delegates based on the people that voted for her
b. Obama gets no delegates since he wasn't on the ballot and therefore got no votes.

3. The 13 Edwards delegates from Florida ALL decide to vote for Hillary.
4. The 55 Uncommitted delegates from Michigan ALL decide to support Hillary.

Under this scenario, Hillary would at this point be 62 delegates behind Obama.

At this point, she would still need the 200 or so undecided delegates to support her 132-68 in order to secure the nomination.

Update: Even this scenario is extremely unlikely, because of 4: All Michican uncommitteds supporting Hillary. Michigan has actually released the names of the 55 uncommitted delegates it has selected based on the election results, and 18 of them have been confirmed as Obama supporters with another 12 suspected but unconfirmed Obama supporters. If all these people went for Obama, Hillary would need to get 162-38 superdelegate support to get the nomination. It's looking like Obama will only need a handful of supers to become the party's presumptive nominee.

[democrattotheend]

21. I just want to know how many delegates they each "have" from Florida

You said 13 for Edwards...what about Clinton and Obama?

[mohc]

22. If seated fully

Clinton: 105
Obama: 67
Edwards: 13

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/FL-D.phtml">source

[democrattotheend]

26. Awesome, thanks

If I understand correctly, only 2 of the Edwards delegates have announced support for Obama. Is that right?

[mohc]

30. Yes

From the source I sited above:

"According to the 14 and 15 May 2008 articles below, 2 Edwards pledged delegates intend to cast their ballots for Obama. Accordingly, we have changed our Alternative Soft Total count from Clinton 113, Obama 72, Edwards 13 to Clinton 113, Obama 74, Edwards 11. The Alternative Soft Total assumes that delegates from Florida will actually be seated at the National Convention."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. "breathtaking innanity"

Reminds me of that Creationism court case from a couple of years ago.

[Swamp Rat]

3. Whose money and time is Victor DiMaio wasting?

Maybe he should pay for the court costs, and apologize to the taxpayers.

[madfloridian]

31. Now that I agree with, Swamp Rat.

Totally.

[papau]

49. Oh -it is fun to watch - sort of balances off all the Obama fan screams about NO VP FOR HILLARY - on

to the convention and a seating fight there!

:-)

[dsomuah]

39. It's a huge waste of time

Even if the florida delegation is seated as is, Clinton would still need a superdelegate miracle to get the nomination.

[reflection]

4. Good call. Common sense. n/t

[grantcart]

5. I think your wrong about it continuing

Ed Rendell, who has never struck me as being particularly discreet, says that its over - after the obligatory pout.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/05/28/rendell_doesnt_think_clinton_can_win.html

Rendell Doesn't Think Clinton Can Win
Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, who supports Sen. Hillary Clinton for president, now says it's unlikely she'll win the nomination, ABC News reports.

Said Rendell: "I'm a realist, and I think most likely the superdelegates will give Sen. Obama the votes he needs. I don't think the DNC is going to fairly adjust what happened in Florida... I don't think they're going to fairly adjust it. So I think it's very unlikely that Senator Clinton can prevail. I think that means we're not going to field our strongest candidate."

Their 'bluff' is just about over.

[madfloridian]

8. I sure hope you are right.

Some other court will have to slap DiMaio down, and then give a swift kick to Geller...or maybe a couple of kicks for him because of his size.

[AllentownJake]

12. I hate my govenor

Whatever happened to honor in defeat. He stinks I hope they don't let him withing 5 miles of a cabinet post.

[Cha]

29. They won't..rendell was pushing, pandering, twisting, and lying

for a hilary post.

[madfloridian]

52. Rendell's solution was shoot Howard Dean.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1872

[Hawkeye-X]

18. Field our strongest candidate

based on what criteria?

[grantcart]

23. they have to say anything and I don't really care as long as they give up the idiotic

'fight to the convention' meme

[zulchzulu]

6. "The Florida Legislature in its infinite wisdom, for whatever reason,decided to ignore those rules."

That's all that needs to be said.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Buh-bye.

[Coexist]

7. .

[sybylla]

10. If only it were the end of

the ignorant posts decrying disenfranchisement.

[KaptBunnyPants]

53. It should be, but people insist on embarassing themselves.

I think by now the average DUer has seen the video of the sole Democratic "opponent" of the illegitimate early primary mocking the Party as he announced his obviously fake opposition to violating Democratic rules. We've all seen the screw Dean buttons, we know what actually happened. For whatever reason the Florida Democratic Party is playing footsie with the Republican Party. If you live in Florida, don't fret about a conspiracy against you from the national Party. Your problems are closer to home.

[ForeignSpectator]

54. ...next case... n/t

[AtomicKitten]

9. This will be over on Saturday for all practical purposes.

Anonymous RBC members have been quoted in the press as saying there is no outcome Saturday including Clinton's "me-me-me" strategy that will give her the lead, and Barack will be the nominee. The superdelegates will not allow this to drag out, and then we can all turn our resources and attention to the GE. Amen.

K&R

[madfloridian]

11. But will she say it is over and stop the anger?

The groups here in my state that were formed to fight the DNC seem to just be getting more riled up.

[Hawkeye-X]

19. I'm sure Obama will be visiting Florida a lot over the summer

so he can mend bridges, heal the hurt, and inspire the uninspired, give hope to the hopeless...

I could go on...

[dems_rightnow]

13. "The lower, district-court-level judges are leery of making law."

Gee, no kidding. That's not their job. We have groups to do the law-making already.

[Lucky 13]

15. Justice prevails.

Parties choose their nominee by party rules. Some parties choose nominees very differently - like Libertarians. If the party wanted to nominate someone by flip of a coin it could.

SO unless the party blatantly changes the rules just to suit one Ms. Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton, and we all know Howard Dean won't allow that, we have this thing in the bag. The only question is: Will the frivolous lawsuits, appeals, reviews, etc. continue?

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. What always surprises me about these old guard Florida dems, is,

if they aren't willing to abide by the rules, what makes them think that we will ever accept their authority with any decision they make?

[Hawkeye-X]

17. Dimaio is not going to the Supreme Court, much less go anywhere.

If he continues to push it on, I'm sure there'll be a barratry and a SLAPP suit against him really soon. (SC has stopped taking cases for this term, so he's too late, even on Rule 11)

Idiots.

Hawkeye-X

[bvar22]

20. "The former first couple have...tarnished themselves irreparably."

"The former first couple have, by sending their surrogates out to preach division and lack of respect to the party...tarnished themselves irreparably."

I agree completely.

K&R

[beac]

24. Seconding your agreement and K&R'ing!

[madfloridian]

40. They really have done that.

By building the anger in their supporters...they have hurt the party.

[canucksawbones]

25. how is he going to go to the supreme

this was already punted back down from the appeals court to Lazzara (who ruled on Dimaio's silliness already)

[madrchsod]

27. it`s over ..time for everyone to put their cards on the table

[Cha]

28. This is Classic, mad!~

"I don't live in a cave, and I know that there are many people out there who are disgruntled" by the sanctions, Lazzara said, but, "The Democratic National Committee put everyone on notice that these were the rules everyone had to live by. The Florida Legislature in its infinite wisdom, for whatever reason, decided to ignore those rules."

Shouldn't that be made into a freeway blogger sign? :)

[Major Hogwash]

32. Hahaha! Great line!

You can almost hear him saying it.

Like no one else has been paying attention.
I love it.

[SeattleGirl]

33. I'm so glad the judge threw that suit out.

Indeed, he does not live in a cave! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

50. I was holding my breath about it.

But he is already appealing.

[AngryAmish]

34. But he does live in Florida, which makes him a dumbass

[Dr.Phool]

35. How is life up there in Lower Siberia?

Even the pool water is too warm down here!

[Divine Discontent]

36. for nearly 8 years we've heard NOTHING but...

when dumb-f**k left the oval office, most likely in '08, that it was going to be her's for the offering, if she'd be so gracious as to run...

think of all the fundraisers over the past 8 years for Clinton for Senate and then for President, where she was given large sums of money by backers telling her it was her time ---


Enter Barack Obama.

He not only narrowly beat her out, but he pushed aside a very grassroots-oriented middle-America Union backed campaign by John Edwards who threw each of them some very fast curveballs they couldn't handle. Barack became the enemy to the Clintons, whereas, the Edwards showed maturity and civility and respected what the #'s were telling them. We obviously see the Clintons failed to listen to the #'s and said #'s don't matter in this race...



New Obama Items Weekly!
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[suston96]

37. It ain't about the Clinton's. It's about the violations of the Democratic Party Charter....

....but nobody wants to look at that. Someday, when the candidate is on the other foot, trashing the full and equal participation rights of party members will come up again, for sure.

But for now, not counting votes of fellow-Democrats in two big states seems to be the right thing to do. Yeah, we learned much from Florida 2000.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

38. .

[DWilliamsamh]

41. Hi Mad.... you might want to do an edit....

4th para from the bottom you referenced the "...RNC ruling on Saturday." I am sure you meant to say DNC or RBC. I only make this suggestion because I appreciate the hell out of your first hand accounts from the sunshine state. I would hate for some "disenfranchised" Hillary supporter to have any reason to unfairly pick you apart. After all we know that to some of those folks, an innocent mistake is no different that an outright lie.

Keep up the good work keeping an eye on your representatives!

DW

[madfloridian]

42. Too late

to edit...but thanks anyway.

:hi:

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

43. The Clintons and their minions look like total buffoons

Even broadcast TV news has begun laughing. Each of the further embellishment makes the original arguments look more and more stupid.

Today's plea for money from Hillary included the following, "We can win the nomination if we extend our popular vote lead..."

First of all, she never had the popular vote lead. Not once.

As has been her pattern with the ever expanding lies of Bosnia and the ever closer floating of assassination as a legitimate topic of debate, Hillary states her lie as a fact, hoping everyone will get tired of hearing it and accept it. Sorry, Hillary you CANNOT BUILD UPON SOMETHING YOU NEVER HAD.

Yes, Camp Clinton continues to try and paint the presumptive nominee, Senator Obama, as not legitimate. If they tried it with legitimate arguments it would be legitimate campaigning.

It is wonderful to hear Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid speaking out today with firm leadership language. It is sad they are forced into this position.

[demo dutch]

44. As a Floridian, I agree with the judge!

[phrigndumass]

45. K/R ... DiMaio and Geller have become the festering boils on the asscrack of the party

Infected.

Love the "I don't live in a cave" comment!

[Generator]

46. True colors

Tarnished themselves-well I thought they've been off color for years. It's not even surprising to me. Not at all. It's ALMOST fun to watch but only if they finally oh finally go down without taking the country (more war! more Republicans in power!) with them. It's positively Shakespearean. And Hillary is the best Lady Macbeth ever!

[Frank Booth]

47. I try to give Hillary and her lackeys the benefit of the doubt, and refrain from

thinking that they're only trying to make such a mess of the 2008 election that the nominee stands no chance, hence allowing Hillary to run in 2012.

But it becomes harder to think otherwise every day. This primary has become unbelievably strange.

[KSinTX]

48. What now? The anti-idiot discrimination suit lives?

"There is still a lawsuit pending by Florida Senate minority leader, Steve Geller"

[madfloridian]

51. Yep, still pending.

Plus whatever suits DiMaio plans to file.

[madfloridian]

55. Whatever happens today....we still have lawsuits pending.

:shrug: