Breaking: Clinton Camp Hits Obama On Latest Pastor Flap.

[malik flavors]

May 29, 2008
Categories: Hillary Clinton

Clinton camp not satisfied


A statement from Wolfson:

Divisive and hateful language like that is totally counterproductive in our efforts to bring our party together and have no place at the pulpit or in our politics. We are disappointed that Senator Obama didn't specifically reject Father's Pflegler's dispicable comments about Senator Clinton, and assume he will do so.



By Ben Smith 08:35 PM

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Clinton_camp_not_satisfied.html

I guess they think they see an opening. Don't be suprised if Wolfson and the other spinsters are on tv tomorrow making a fuss about this.

[Lucky 13]

1. What am I missing? Didn't he denounce this almost immediately?

Good lord.

[K Gardner]

47. Yes, but they've been ramping it up all day in conjunction with FOX News and Hannity.

[Lucky 13]

67. Oh well then that explains it. I don't watch that Repuke garbage.

[K Gardner]

90. I don't either.. I found it on one of Hillary supporters forums ! LOL.

[Lucky 13]

91. Ugh. That's almost as bad these days.

Do you have your own bio-hazard suit?

[K Gardner]

102. I de-louse my computer after each visit :-)

[TexasLady]

104. Does Hannity just not get that people are starting to laugh at him and Fox

a LOT lately? How stupid they look going ONN and oonn about this stuff? Deflect*cough*McClellan*cough*cough*

[PoliticalAmazon]

159. You notice Hillary couldn't comment on the McClellan book (because she voted for Iraq)....

but she sure can pastorbate, can't she?

[kevinbgoode]

115. Why doesn't Fox and Hannity launch an independent campaign

for Hillary as the official Fox nominee? Y'all know they'll drop her like a hot potato the minute they've been ordered to kiss up to the Republicans again.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

158. pull your head out of the sand....ALL the news channels and local stations are running this non-stop

you lying about it being just Faux news won't make it better.....Obama has a real problem ....he won't win in Nov.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rucky]

139. must. follow. playbook.

ignore reality. the playbook says when something like this happens, you demand an apology, then claim it's not satisfactory.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

162. Yes, but "almost immediately" is not immediately, so Obama must be further damaged as a candidate...

Hillary has only one Master, herself, but she often asks herself: WWRD? (What would Rove do?) To describe Hillary as dispicable is being way too kind for that closet Repukican.

[rodeodance]

164. making Obama a victim once again. tsk tsk. Next time he should be quicker. He was was

quick to denounce her over the RFK comment (only later to say it was garffe!!)

[Arkana]

2. It was his responsibility to denounce Pfleger.

Not to say "Hillary's a saint!".

And they should concentrate on toning down their scorched-earth crap if they're really concerned about party unity. For fuck's sake, if I hear one more "WHITE PEOPLE HATES OBAMA, YO" comment I'm going to jam my e-foot up the offender's e-ass.

[KSinTX]

95. Why?

[rodeodance]

165. It was his Church --once again!

[my2sense]

3. They Need to Give It Up

This from a woman who invokes the "A" word during a time when the first viable AA person runs for POTUS....yeah whatever Hillary. Bite me.

[Why Syzygy]

81. But, she apologized!! to the Kennedys.

[Brundle_Fly]

137. saying you regret it if anyone was offended is not an apology.

I regret it if you think differently.

[PoliticalAmazon]

160. She didn't apologize to the Obamas and their children. n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

169. Hillary will give it up when hell freezes over, not before.

[Mike L]

4. Obama linked to another racist. When will it end? em

[PM7nj]

7. LOL. This guy is a white Catholic priest. nt

[Mike L]

So? He used racist language. em

[PM7nj]

26. How so?

[Mike L]

48. Watch the video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H11x6bMu4Y

[joeybee12]

Yeah, I've been raping black people forever...

...according to him...wouldn't you call that racist? And quite frankly, talking about women being raped from the pulpit seems a tad inappropriate.

[ampad]

34. LOL

It's so automatic for them that they don't have a fucking clue what they are saying anymore. :rofl:

[Mike L]

40. Either you haven't seen the video or .........

you agree with that priest and the congregation.

[joeybee12]

52. Exactly...

...they don't want to listen to anything or see anything that might disturb peaceful Obama-land.

[trueblue2007]

73. Father Michael Pfleger is a total nut

How could Obama have this person as an advisor? He swears like a steveadore!!!!

He even supports That nutso pastor Jeremiah Wright!!


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Father+Michael+Pfleger&search_type=

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

109. Bullshit. Father Pfleger is the guy who schooled the Faux News liars

I guess the Clinton supporters are on the dark side these days.

[Hansel]

116. They were both community activists.

They worked together in the inner city trying to improve the lives of people in pretty tough and hopeless situations. I've done this work. I worked with a lot of different types of people including some fiery pastors. I've met Ted Kennedy, the Pillsbury's, Mark Dayton, Jesse Jackson. So does that make me their friends? I worked side by side with prostitutes and people who have some pretty rough language. Didn't make me a woman of the night or a drunken sailor.

It doesn't mean anything except that there was a common cause to make life better in the inner city. It's makes sense that Obama went to this church since he needed to be seen as a part of this community in order to gain trust. Especially since he was an outsider.

You cannot do the work that Obama did without associating with some people that maybe people outside of the inner city find less than appealing. But it takes all kinds. It's a tough gig.



Edited to take out comment that he was not Obama's advisor. Need more information after reading post down the line. The rest stands as is.

[EmilyAnne]

12. It will end when people like you stop making idiotic connections in an attempt to elevate your

losing candidate.

[Mike L]

17. I'm sorry, I thought Obama belonged to this church for 20 years and

Wright was his mentor for that time.

[MadBadger]

24. Is your last name Lieberman?

[Doityourself]

30. And that makes him a racist huh? A hater of America and white folks...in your estimation?

[Mike L]

66. How can he attend services for 20 years, sit through sermons from Wright and this priest,

and who knows how many more, see his church give Farrakhan an award, be mentored by Wright for 20 years.........and not agree with what they are saying? Is that believable? How long would it take a reasonable person to dump that church and Wright?

[Doityourself]

70. Answer the question. So, you're saying he's a racist and a hater of America and White People?

Btw, I'm 43 years old and have an uncle that I've lived with and grew up around that says the most horrible things about Mexicans--does that make me a racist or a hater of Mexicans? He's pretty critical of America too, calls it a racist, two-faced nation that is doomed to failure and death..and he thinks America's military (where he served) sucks and is a big bully.

Gonna hang me with him?

[Hansel]

107. This argument is so tired. nt

[LibGranny]

127. Do you agree with EVERYTHING your pastor says?

(or do you attend church?) Do you agree with all your friends' opinions about everything? Do you agree with everything your family/spouse thinks? If you don't, why don't you leave?

[bvar22]

133. I attended Catholic Church for 18 years,

and today I'm still Pro-Choice and Pro Masturbation.
So whats your point?

[bvar22]

134. delete

[Heathen57]

163. In over thirty years of sermons, they could only

find 30 seconds of commentary that was pretty much true, he just phrased it wrong.

No possibility that he taught the messages of his Jesus the rest of the time is there? Words of loving your fellow man, helping those in need, defending the poor and downtrodden. Nah, he just repeated those 30 or so seconds of hate over and over for 30 years.

Yeah, right.

[Hansel]

108. Actually Obama says he was not his mentor. He was the pastor, period. eom

[Skip Intro]

111. His book is named after one of the rev's sermon titles. I guess Obama just went there for 20 yrs

because he liked the decor?

[Hansel]

119. He went to the church for 20 years because

it was the community church. He did community organizing and this made him a part of that community. It's not that difficult to figure out if you actually think about it.

And the 20 year meme is tired. I'm sure that Rev Wright didn't sound for 20 solid years like he did in the clips Faux News showed. Did you bother to watch the whole serums? Did you know that in at least one of those serums he was quoting what Ambassador Peck had said on Faux News? Did you know that he was actually pretty calm and enlightening except for the snippets they showed over and over?

Just because Obama named a book after something the Rev Wright said in one of his serums does not prove that Rev Wright was his mentor. I went to the same church for 15 years and never even spoke with the priest once. Both Wright and Obama have said they did not have a mentoring relationship. I'm pretty sure they know more about it than you do. In any case, I'm going to take their word for it over yours.

I don't know one person who goes to a Reverend. You go to a church. And in the inner city, the church is the center of the community. It makes perfect sense to me. Of course, I worked as an outsider in the inner city so I get it.

[Skip Intro]

55. Why does Obama belong to a church where racism and hatemongering are cheered?

[mckeown1128]

92. What racism?

Ohh look at all those white and black folks in the audience cheering together in their hatred for one another :eyes:

[Skip Intro]

110. You live in a fairytale.

Yeah, I know, THAT'S racist.

:eyes:

[mckeown1128]

125. Ohh... an insult...

I guess that means I'm right and your wrong. You can't refute what I'm saying so you just insult. lol

[ericgtr]

122. Why does Hillary cite a possible Obama assassination?

Don't act all high and mighty because you have nothing to go on. Your candidate is the worst fucking type of person let alone candidate.

[polmaven]

138. Hillary

NEVER CITED A POSSIBLE OBAMA ASSASSINATION!!!!!

Senator Obama was not the topic of the question nor of her answer.......Senator Obama is not always the topic.

GROW UP!! This type of thing will do more harm than good to Senator Obama in the General.

[ericgtr]

155. Hillary DREW THE PARALLEL BETWEEN OBAMA AND KENNEDY

You may want to take a little bit of responsibility for the words of your candidate. How dare you accuse "this type of thing" on anyone but Hillary, good christ you are a nothing better than a militant hack. She not only cited the possibility when she said that, she opened the fucking door. There has never been a more despicable candidate in a democratic primary, ever.

[rodeodance]

166. so is your 's

[Hansel]

123. He belongs to a church where people are trying to deal with

the impacts of racism and hopelessness on their lives. This is how they cope and are empowered. It's not for you to understand. But they feel powerless and this is a method of coping and expressing their frustration in a fairly harmless way. It might not be politically correct, but it is what it is.

Surely you aren't trying to equate their issues with the way they've been treated by racist whites to the way that racist whites have treated them. No one could be that cynical.

[stillcool]

153. Why do white people...

get to decide what is 'racism'?..and why do 'some' supporters use the word "hate" so much?

[shayes51]

154. Why, indeed.

If he wants to win in November, he better take his name off the church roll.

[KSinTX]

100. How so?

[Arugula Latte]

141. You mean like Hillary's racist buddy Geraldine Ferraro?

When will it end? When will Geraldine stop spewing racist crap?

[Kaylee]

5. Damnit....

Why, why do we have to deal with Hillary's continued tearing down of our nominee. Tell me Howard ...you think this dig after Obama chastened the Fathers' comments help to heal the party, hmmm.

I fucking hate these people.

[jefferson_dem]

6. ClintonInc Cabal demonstrates once again what kind of rank filth they are.

Fuck the lot of them.

[uberblonde]

28. Way to go, Unity Boy!

Way to build bridges!

[KAZ]

I doubt many here have any interest in "unifying" with the likes of you.

[jefferson_dem]

43. Take it up with the sleazy ClintonInc Cabal.

It's them I hate. Her supporters are (generally) cool by me.

Both Obama and Pfleger apologized but bottom-feeder Wolfson demonstrated yet again that they will do anything say anything in their quest of political advantage. Maybe that makes you happy and proud. I'll call it the way I see it.

[KAZ]

31. Agree.

[Faygo Kid]

8. She's running for 2012.

Somehow someway she thinks she can tear him down enough by August to get the nomination in 2012.

[PM7nj]

9. Obama has already said something:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6174633&mesg_id=6174633

[Pisces]

HIllarys campaign is beyond done. Obama can not disown every pastor that may offend Hillary.

He hasn't even gone back to he church. How ridiculous, trying to stay in the news with right wing talking points.

[LisaM]

Obama has known this guy for 20 years

I think, though, that the worst of it was the congregation laughing and cheering. What's wrong with them? This isn't just shouting amen. I fully understand the participatory nature of the church and it's probably more fun to attend than the ones I have, and do. But this is cheering a personal attack.

[Arkana]

21. It wasn't nice. We get that.

Nevertheless, Obama wasn't there, it wasn't a campaign crowd of his, and he didn't tell the guy to say this shit--and judging from his comments he thought it was a pretty shitty thing to say.

My God, you people REALLY believe Obama's the root of all evil, don't you?

[LisaM]

37. I never said any such thing.

But I also refuse to believe that he doesn't know this shit is going on. It's really ugly.

Of course, I also think he joined the church for the contacts he could make there as much as (or more than) the sermons, but then, that's just my opinion, which you are welcome to ignore.

[Arkana]

49. If he hasn't been back to the church, how the hell WOULD he know?

He wasn't at this sermon, and he clearly did not encourage anything the guy said.

Realize that this happens on both sides--supporters getting slightly overzealous, and saying crazy shit that does nothing to help their candidate's cause.

[joeybee12]

60. It's not just one sermon...it's clear what this church is all about...there's

a pattern and for Obama to say he didn't hear Wright make such comments goes against reality...comments like Wright's were apparently the norm at Trinity, so he did hear them, and he lied when he said he didn't. Face it, Trinity Church, the gift that keeps on giving.

[Mike L]

33. It's more than that. It's a racist frenzy. em

[ampad]

44. Were you equally outraged

When Hillary herself made fun of Obama supporters and her crowd cheered it on? That was a personal attack on the Dem party.

[Straight Shooter]

46. "But this is cheering a personal attack."

Maybe they should call the video "Obama's strongest supporters in all their glory."

[LisaM]

69. Yeah, let the rest of the world see what some of us know....

Obama has some supporters who don't exactly represent unity and hope. Change, maybe, but not the kind everyone might expect.

[Straight Shooter]

71. I think Hillary Hate has replaced the Love of Christ in that church.

To think a Catholic priest would stoop so low as to carry on and on like that. I don't know if he truly meant his ugly words or was just milking it for attention, but he should be censured by the Church.

[polmaven]

145. I don't think Senator Obama

has known THIS guy for that long, or if he knows him that well. He knows who he is, sure, and he has likely had some superficial contact with him. I don't think he had any part in inviting him to preach at the church...he probably had other things to do...and he has now denounced him.

I must agree, though, that the personal political attack was more than inflammatory, and the church...not the Senator in this case....the church needs to step back and take a look at it.

First, this is a tax exempt (I assume) entity. We note here all the time about RW churches endorsing candidates from the pulpit and remark that the IRS should consider pulling their exemptions.

Secondly, this is doing the Senator absolutely no favors. They HAVE to know they are being closely scrutinized, but they allowed this type of vitriol to be "spewed" anyway, and didn't even bother to turn of the video recorder.

Third, Apparently there is someone in that church who is leaking all of this stuff to the Fox news types, which makes it all the more unbelievable that they went ahead with this.

Anyway, back to my original point, I don't think we can put the blame for this on Senator Obama, or fault him now that he has spoken out forcefully.

[sniffa]

10. She who's linked to the Clinton pastor should not cast the first stone

:D

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. gosh. that sounds almost exactly what Obama said about the RFK

comment.

[MadBadger]

19. The Obama campaign's comment was that her comment had no place in this campaign

They didnt demand for a further apology. They let her go and moved on.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

117. Words from Clinton/Words from not Obama

Didn't you get Sesame Street when you were a kid?

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Did you guess which thing was not like the others?
Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong?
If you guessed this one is not like the others,
Then you're absolutely...right!

[jenmito]

13. Where's Ferraro's apology to Obama?

[jenmito]

14. "New Pastor Problem?" Headline on MSNBC coming up.

[K Gardner]

20. This talking point was put out today on the Clinton Forums and their hero, Hannity.

[jenmito]

27. I WISH someone from Obama's team would demand an apology from Ferraro! This guy already apologized,

right?

[MadBadger]

22. Are you serious?

[jenmito]

29. Yes. It's coming up.

[MadBadger]

82. How did they handle it?

I'm watching the much more important Lost Finale

[jenmito]

85. All but the Repub. laughed at how FAUX is treating this so seriously. But it won't have

legs according to them.

[slinkerwink]

86. good. The only legs it has is on Clinton supporters quickly looking for the goal in sight

which seems to recede even further into the distance with every step.

[jenmito]

88. Yup. And now the breaking news that Pelosi and Reid said the race will be over next week took over!

:hi:

[MadBadger]

87. Who was on the panel?

[jenmito]

89. Darn. The only name I know is April Ryan. Then there was a liberal and a conservative. Sorry!!

[Pirate Smile]

15. Could you put Obama's statement in your OP? He already condemned it and the Father apologized

already.

Obama "deeply disappointed" in Father Michael Pfleger. UPDATE Pfleger apology.
WASHINGTON--Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said in a statement he was "deeply disappointed" in Father Michael Pfleger, after the priest --in a scene caught on videotape-- mocked Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y) from the pulpit of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago--the home church of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. UPDATE Click below for Pfleger apology

“As I have traveled this country, I've been impressed not by what divides us, but by all that that unites us. That is why I am deeply disappointed in Father Pfleger's divisive, backward-looking rhetoric, which doesn't reflect the country I see or the desire of people across America to come together in common cause," Obama said in a statement.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_deeply_disappointed_in_f_1.html


Response of Rev. Michael L. Pfleger of statements made during a sermon on Sunday, May 25, 2008

"I regret the words I chose on Sunday. These words are inconsistent with Senator Obama's life and message, and I am deeply sorry if they offended Senator Clinton or anyone else who saw them."

[BlooInBloo]

16. I think I'll have chicken with my yummy thyme-mushroom sauce tonite.

[AspenRose]

140. That sounds good. Could you please PM the recipe? KThxBai.

:hi:

[Connie_Corleone]

18. Just one more example of how awful the Hillary campaign has been run.

They would hire Karl Rove himself if they could afford him.

[Phx_Dem]

59. Instead she just morphed into him.

[stray cat]

23. Unbelievable -she is really reaching for anything she can grab ahold of

Hillary and Bills hands are certainly not clean when it comes to their contacts

[Occam Bandage]

25. Ready for more pastorbation already? Those guys are insatiable.

[AtomicKitten]

32. Ha, ha - He apologized already!! So did the priest!! It's done.

Plus every word the priest said was true.

[BklynChick]

38. ITA, every.word.

[Arkana]

41. Of course it's not done. How long have you been here?

We will hear about this forever now--despite the fact that this guy is even less relevant than Jeremiah Wright. Expect to see it show up in Hillary's next cut-and-pasted-newspaper-letters threat to the DNC and the other members of her Nixonian "enemies list".

[AtomicKitten]

51. no worries - he'll just continue to otherwise ignore her

which he has done pretty much since No. Carolina ...

I actually heard one of her surrogates on a TV talking head show complain that his graciousness toward her is condescending and pisses them off.

wow :D

[Richbru]

50. It's too late for Obama..

everyday he makes stupid statements, We learn more of his seedy relationships. The die has been cast, Obama is toast.

[AtomicKitten]

53. ha, ha - next time you best bring kryptonite

[jefferson_dem]

57. Your concern is duly noted.

Enjoy your stay... :hi:

[Richbru]

61. I certainly will ---

enjoy your short lived optimisim....

[Straight Shooter]

75. LOL!

Welcome to DU, sincerely. :hi:

[EnviroBat]

130. Buh bye...

dumbass...

:hi:

[Jersey Devil]

35. LOL, Hillarites will go out pastorbating

It is so fitting

[Bleacher Creature]

36. Great. Maybe someone will add the term "gate" to the end. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

39. Clinton Says She "is the most Fiscally Responsible Candidate"

Let's look at what the candidates say not some preacher.
and hold the candidate responsible for their own bullshit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6175294&mesg_id=6175294

[Kittycat]

129. I cracked up when I read that headline, given that she's in massive debt, and he's flush with cash.

[Medusa]

42. Did the Priest invoke RFK's death?

Like a certain candidate we know. . . . . . .

And can anyone prove that the Priest was actually wrong in what he said?

Thought so.

[Tatiana]

45. I like the way our Obamanians are getting out front on this issue.

Which will pretty much become a non-issue soon. People are sick of this. And the right-wing has finally gotten the picture (given Hagee and Parsley) that once we start scrutinizing one set of pastors, the others are next.

Hillary would do well to talk about some issues. What about those health insurance mandates? Or the gas tax holiday?

[Richbru]

58. The Obama campaign is really good

at getting out front on the issues because there is a new one every time he opens his mouth,,, what a putz!

[Phx_Dem]

62. Yeah, but you can call him

President Putz.

[Richbru]

72. That's the most ,,,,

ridiculous thing I've ever heard, thanks for making me laugh!!

[Phx_Dem]

76. Happy to help.

[Tatiana]

68. I bought my first car in June; we all know Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in JUNE.

Ummm... OK. Try again :hi:

[Phx_Dem]

54. This is the very stark

difference between Obama and Clinton.

Someone makes an incidious remark about Clinton, and Obama defends her (and rightfully so!). Then Clinton proceeds to blame Obama for the remark made by someone else that he ALREADY denounced. WTF? Only in Hillaryland does that make sense.

And she gives him yet another reason not to pick her sorry ass for VP. Thanks Hill! :hi:

[ramapo]

56. These people are assholes, plain and simple

Not much else to add...

[GoldieAZ49]

63. Good, let them see what Trinity Church is all about

The bedrock of Obama and his faith

heh.

[L0oniX]

64. Big woop tee doo about nothing ...get a life Hillary

[Bensthename]

65. But they will let that bitch FERRARO run her racist sexist mouth all day..

Pathetic

[liberaldem4ever]

74. This is the most stupid thing I've heard

I surely hope that no Dem will try to tie Obama with this pastor and his idiotic words. The RW has really made themselves look like fools with this. This is the most pathetic & lame attempt to smear Obama yet.

[ErinBerin84]

77. haha

Dan Abrams showed a clip of Fox News, and one of the Fox news women saying "Breaking news coming across the wires!!!!" I'm beginning to think that they visit DU, and that certain DU people are feeding Fox rather than the other way around.

[BobbyVan]

79. Rev. Pfleger was identified as a spiritual advisor to Obama in 2004 by the Chicago Sun-Times

That's a fact, Jack.

[malik flavors]

83. Haha, this guy is too much of a joke for anybody to care. White on white racism is good stuff.

[Connie_Corleone]

84. So what! The priest is very well known in Chicago for his social justice activities.

Was Obama supposed to travel into present day 2008 and find out what the priest said about Hillary and give a retroactive denunciation?

[jenmito]

93. Sorry, but he's not a "scary Black preacher" and he's not "anti-American." Just anti-Hillary-like

many of us. This won't have the legs you wish it had.

[jefferson_dem]

103. I first heard the audio in the car today on idiot talk hater Hugh Hewitt's show.

And was just a tad worried that this could be a bigger distraction...

Until I saw Pfleger - his whiteness and the collar and all...

Legless. Count on it.

[jenmito]

106. I agree. He's more of a joke than anything.

This won't be a problem.

[KSinTX]

99. Cite it.

[BobbyVan]

112. Link below

http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/726619,obamafalsani040504.article

[KSinTX]

114. Thanks. The OP was a little slim.

[slinkerwink]

80. Uh, Obama did renounce and deject a white Catholic priest who isn't even his pastor.

[KSinTX]

94. I get a paragraph of response. Where's the story? nt

[my3boyz]

96. If Wright did not bring Obama down this certainly won't. nt

[zulchzulu]

97. Like I've said before, trust the Clintons at YOUR PERIL

People are all thinking we need to stop with the whatever-the-f*ck crap about not makin' Bill and Hill feel bad...but guess what, until they both drop the hell out, I say keep pressuring them.

Granted, it's less than a week before it's over, but this crap is typical.

As for the priest, he actually wasn't that far off when he talked about Hillary Clinton when he mocked what she might have thought:

"I'm white...I'm entitled...and there's this black man stealing my show!"

Obama condemned the statement, but frankly it was pretty much on the mark.

[Thrill]

98. See how they jump on stuff? Obama didn't do that with her RFK comment. Sad

[polichick]

101. Exactly! I really wish he'd stop saying nice things about her...

...and just ignore her.

[JVS]

105. Since when is Obama responsible for every religious leader on the South Side of Chicago?

[and-justice-for-all]

113. Who cares what the fuck some pastor says...

Did Obama put words into their mouth?! NO!!

Give it up HRC! this childish behavior is doing you and your supporters far more harm than Obama! It make HRC and her supporters look desperate and that is sad.

[PM7nj]

118. This thread has provided many new names for my ignore list. nt

[progetto]

120. more faux outrage from camp clinton.

Wolfson is fooling himself if he thinks this stuff is going anywhere. It's getting old and he's looking like a whiner.

[rodeodance]

168. how who you like to be called a white supremeist???

[crankychatter]

121. I have some very unpleasant things to say about the Clinton Campaign

but I won't

[Plaid Adder]

124. A small PastorGate rant.

I'm going to regret this. Nevertheless. Two points:

1) This is a tape of Pfleger preaching at Trinity. Hard as it is for people to believe, Trinity has its own existence and identity independent of Obama's campaign for president, and the community that has been worshipping there since before all this shit started has been invaded by the national media, dissected under a microscope by pundits who have no idea what they're talking about, and so on. They are no doubt angry about this and at based on their website they appear to be fighting back. Pfleger may be an Obama supporter, but he wasn't there for Obama; he was there to support Wright, who he believes (as he has said on camera before) has been grievously misrepresented. Though he may well be batshit crazy (see point #2 below), Pfleger's not the only white clergyperson who thinks Wright got a raw deal. I know a few people in ministry in Hyde Park, and all of them are very angry about the fact that this controversy has basically destroyed Wright's legacy, and turned 15 minutes of video into a coffin within which to bury 20 years of good work done in a part of the city that desperately needs it.

So, my point is: what happens at Trinity is not all about Obama. Trinity existed before he became a star and it will no doubt exist after his political career is over. No doubt a lot of people at Trinity support Obama (despite his public 'divorce' from Wright), and no doubt Clinton is very unpopular there. But that's not the main reason that the kind of argument Pfleger's making--which is not so much about Clinton per se, but about white entitlement and white privilege--would be warmly received there. The main reason for that is that Trinity is in the middle of an intensely depressed and heavily African-American region of one of the most segregated cities in the country, and for the people who live on the south side of Chicago, racism is still very much alive. Now, you can complain about how unfair it is for them to blame all their problems on white people; but I'll tell you, that's not the most unfair thing going on on the south side.

All the bullshit in the media about Obama as an "elitist," IMHO, simply masks the real fear that Obama's support comes not from effete latte-drinking* white intellectuals such as myself, who can talk Marxism all they want but are essentially harmless because we all know that if the revolution really came we would nto be able to afford lattes any more ,but from African-Americans who are outside the boundaries of the middle class and who now for the first time see a reason to give a shit about a Democratic primary. I think there's a lot of fear, even among Democrats who realize that they need to grow the base and are supporting Obama because that's what he's doing, of what will happen if all these non-white, non-middle class voters actually start to set the party agenda. But I digress.

2) Religious leaders say some crazy shit. I just watched "For the Bible Tells Me So," which is a documentary about Christian families coming to terms with their gay and lesbian children, and was treated along the way to many choice clips of crazy homophobic shit coming out of the mouths of Rev. Dobson, Jimmy Swaggart, and so on. Some of our guests required two bowls of ice cream to sustain them through this ordeal. Though I do not spend as much time montoring the activities of progressive evangelicals (they do exist, though you hear little about them), I am sure some crazy shit comes out of them too. To them, of course, it's not crazy shit; it's inspiration. And that's why you can't call up a guy like Wright, or a guy like Pfleger, or a guy like Hagee, or a guy like Parsley, and say, "Guys, you're not helping, could you tone it down?" Well, no, you can; but they'll just say, "Yes, I know, I'm sorry, I hope it won't do you too much damage," and then next Sunday the spirit will move within them and out will come even crazier shit.

So, you know, by all means get pissed off at all the crazy shit; I certainly do. But do not expect people who make a living by standing up in front of a group of believers and working them into a lather to conduct themselves in accordance with the rules of polite and rational conversation. That's not their job. And that is why you do not want a religious leader as a president. It is also why you do not want a president who governs as if he *were* a religious leader--such as the @#$! who currently holds the office. And that is why I get pissed off at all this stuff. I'm not going to vote for Wright, or for Pfleger, or for a guy whose campaign message reiterates their crazy shit. I'm voting for a guy who, be the reasons sincere or cynical, has taken great pains to articulate an understanding of race in 21st century America which is very different from theirs.

We certainly have a right to expect our political leaders to speak more moderately and to govern more justly than most religious leaders would, and we certainly have a duty to punish them when they exploit the crazy shit that the religious leaders on their side have been spouting, as most of the Republican party has been doing since Pat Buchanan's convention keynote back in 1992. But it's just insane to expect them to be able to *stop* those religious leaders from saying crazy shit. And this is essentially what Obama seems to be expected to do, since apologizing for/denouncing/rejecting the crazy shit and its purveyor never seems to be enough.

But of course none of this is really about what's right or wrong; it's about tactics. Way back when, as Obama went through the time-honored ritual of distancing himself from Farrakhan, my partner observed, "Ah, Farrakhan. The classic trap for Black politicians." It's a trap because the politician who walks into it is going to hurt himself either way. If he denounces (or rejects, or rejects AND denounces) Farrakhan, he looks like he's caving to white pressure, and that hurts his African-American support. If he doesn't, that finishes him with white voters. Whether it's reasonable to suppose that he personally would support or implement the Nation of Islam's agenda is never the point; the point is that the trap works regardless, so people keep setting it. The Wright stuff is the same trap with slightly different bait. You all will therefore forgive me, I hope, for viewing most of the all-caps, n/t outrage poured forth over this as strategic rather than genuine.

OK. I have now pissed away my allotted amount of GD: P time. Carry on.

The Plaid Adder

*I do not actually drink latte. In fact, I really think the "latte" talking point needs to be retired. You can get a latte at Dunkin @#$! Donuts now. Dunkin Donuts, where they're such a bunch of elite intellectuals that they just pulled one of their ads because some nutcase on a right-wing blog thought the scarf Rachel Ray was wearing in it looked vaguely like something they remembered once seeing on Arafat's head. Fancy coffee has gone mainstream, people. Update the database.

[Triana]

126. WTF!? HOW is OBAMA responsible for EVERYTHING everyone ELSE says?

:wtf:

[nichomachus]

128. The Clinton camp is getting more like the right wing babble-heads with each passing hour

[LaurenG]

131. Nothing will satisfy the voracious appetite of that group

They could have all the power and money in the world and it still wouldn't be enough. What a shining example of a sore loser and a hypocrite. x(

*spelling

[BlueJac]

132. Ha Ha Ha Ha Hillary, Time to take a much needed vacation...

maybe you have ruined your changes at your own Senate seat. Hillary got lucky Obama took the high road because she would of got ripped apart by the Republican slime machine. See ya Hillary, take that Bill guy with you!

[gal]

135. Maybe I'm not getting it but..

This isn't a pastor at his church. Obama wasn't there in church.
It's just someone that supports him giving a sermon at his church..why is Obama responsible?
Is he responsible for what I say as well?

[bvar22]

136. I'm glad I'm an American!

America was founded on religious freedom (and freedom from religion), and the separation of Church and State. I can go to any church I choose, and listen to any religious counselor I choose. I LOVE that there is NO religious litmus test for holding public office......

What? Hillary wants to change all that....
I know who doesn't get my vote.

[smiley_glad_hands]

142. Guess what Hill. You lost. eom

[SeaLyons]

143. Good....they should make a huge fuss over it....

[redqueen]

144. They're disappointed about what Obama hasn't specifically rejected?

REALLY?!

:spray:

Holy fuckin shit... that is just too damn rich! :rofl:

[Vinca]

146. Why don't they ask for an apology from the pastor?

Obama wasn't even in the same state and this isn't his pastor.

[Overseas]

147. Please, Superdelegates, stop this DESPERATE OBAMA BASHING.

Now the desperate CLintons are going to bash the apologies they demand? New tactic to prolong news story -- apology not good enough. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAASE Supers, get the ugly Clinton team to hang it up.

[crankychatter]

152. Amen - let the GOP do it... we do NOT need this crap from Democrats

she's over the line.... WAY OVER THE LINE

[book_worm]

148. When is Hillary going to apologize to Obama for bringing up assassination?

[SOS]

149. A Friday afternoon in late May

What else is happening?
McLellan book.
Saturday - rules committee meeting
Sunday - Puerto Rico
Tuesday - Montana and South Dakota

This "story" is DOA.

[crankychatter]

150. IF a Second Pastor flap crippled Obama's Campaign... some DUers would REJOICE

If I told a sleeper troll, fake Clinton supporter, to "fuck off" would I get TS'd?

[stillcool]

151. Poor Hillary.

I don't think this is the "Catastrophic Event" she's been hoping for. Let us pray, there is another preacher somewhere in Chicago that can deliver her the nomination.

[Skwmom]

156. I've heard the Clinton hack from PA say twice that if the Democrats can't unite

they don't deserve to win. Of course, the Clintons are doing everything they can to see that the party remains divided. But of course, they need to blame it on Obama. They really do think people are stupid.

[still_one]

170. They are causing me to think real hard about NOT voting for her if she is the nominee /nt

[LTR]

157. As long as unofficial Clinton flacks like Ferraro, Rendell, et. al. are allowed to keep at it...

...Clinton has no place to chastise anyone remotely connected to Obama on this.

At least Obama's friends aren't threatening to vote for McCain.

Hillary should just STFU and keep pounding back the booze.

[hfojvt]

161. I hope the actual statement misspelled despicable

:evilgrin:

[still_one]

167. The Clinton's have more than adequately demonstrated how divisive THEY are

and that is from their own mouths

If Clinton gets the nomination, they won't get a dime from me