If you believe your candidate is the inevitable nominee, why bother griping about their rival?

[bigtree]

At some point, those folks who are still wasting our time with their daily diatribes about something Hillary Clinton said or did need to be held responsible for their own neglect in focusing their efforts on the general campaign against McCain they claim she's keeping them from.


Pretty good debate on Iraq going on between Sen. Obama and McCain over the past few days . . .


"I think that if I'm going to Iraq, then I'm there to talk to troops and talk to commanders. I'm not there to try to score political points or perform," Obama said Wednesday. "The work they're doing there is too important."

Obama said he was considering visiting Iraq after Sen. John McCain had suggested that the two should make a joint trip to the country, a proposal Obama dismissed Tuesday as "nothing more than a political stunt."

Bill Burton, Obama's spokesman, said "it seems odd that Sen. McCain, who bought the flawed rationale for war so readily, would be lecturing others on their depth of understanding about Iraq."

Burton also said a joint trip by the two candidates would not provide a "real debate" about the Iraq war.

"The American people don't want any more false promises of progress; they deserve a real debate about a war that has overstretched our military and cost us thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars without making us safer," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obama.iraq/



Bush and Cheney out on the campaign trail, shilling for McCain and lying about Iraq . . .

NEW YORK (AP) ― Vice President Dick Cheney warned Thursday that a Democrat-led troop withdrawal could condemn a future generation of American soldiers to return to the Iraqi battlefield.

http://www.sunherald.com/447/story/593370.html



. . . but, instead, let's talk about what Hillary Clinton is doing. How is ranting about her campaign supposed to be helping the 'inevitable' candidate advance against McCain? If you're supporting Obama and you're still spending your time here ranting about Clinton, you've got no room at all to complain about anyone holding up your candidate from his 'inevitable' challenge against the republican nominee. I'd suggest spending some time promoting what your candidate is promoting. He's certainly not wasting his time denigrating his Democratic rival at every opportunity as the bulk of his supporters do here.






Senator Barack Obama gestures while talking to students at the Mapleton Expeditionary School of the Arts in Thornton, Colorado, May 28, 2008.

[The Magistrate]

1. An Excellent Point, Sir

"More Wars! Less Jobs! McCain '08"

[grantcart]

14. I believe its a 'ma'am'

[bigtree]

18. nope

my profile is correct

(but, thank you for the compliment)

[grantcart]

26. lol I know I checked the profile sometime ago

so I don't know how that happened.

Maybe the asthetic quality of your posts seemed to sublime for a male touch lol

thanks for the correction

[Gore1FL]

2. Because the rival seems hell-bent on wedging the party in two

[JoFerret]

29. You mean someone wants to

win?

Gosh.

[Gore1FL]

31. There are ways to win without

being divisive.

Division exists naturally. Enlarging the chasm does nothing but hurt long-term chances.

[tammywammy]

3. And the fish was THIS BIG

LOL

:)

Recommended

[cliffordu]

20. Well, we had my ears operated on,.....they used to stick out to here...

:rofl:

[ruby slippers]

4. because the rival is making a laughing stock out of the Democratic party

[PretzelWarrior]

5. same reason I call the cops on my neighbor for running chain saw at

6 in the morning. I may be smarter, wealthier, and in general feel good about my life...but if he's going to disturb my peace like this...I'm going to say something.

[NanceGreggs]

8. Well, no point in my responding ...

... because I couldn't possibly top that. EXCELLENT analogy!

[bigtree]

There's too little focus here on what folks claim she's distracting them from

Look around here. I did.

Too much glee in finding disagreement with the Democratic rival's every utterance. That's just stupid politics. If there's so much concern about the effect on the 'party' there should be more of an effort to move past whatever the rival candidate is doing and to focus on whatever we agree is important and necessary to winning the general election. This intra-party skirmishing is actually an insulated fight which is not going to make any difference in the general election beyond the selection of the nominee. If there's no question among supporters of their candidate's success in that nomination, it shouldn't matter what the trailing rival says or does. It shouldn't matter to them, that is, if there is any sincerity at all about the importance of getting on with the general campaign.

[PretzelWarrior]

19. we're simple folk. until she's gone, we're gonna bitch about it

if that's ok with you. meanwhile, we will attack McStupid every chance we get.

[bigtree]

21. have at it.

but, it's not ok with me though, obviously.

(but, I'm just 'simple folk', myself)

[Youphemism]

6. Uh, well, this is the *primary* discussion board

McCain, he's more of a general election kinda topic... But we do mention him.

FYI, that suggestion of him going to Iraq *with* Obama was a reprehensible example of making a political election football out of a life-and-death issue.

I thought he should have included in his response a more polite version of the following reply:

"Uh, no, Senator McCain... I have no interest in a flak-jacketed photo-op tour to buy tomatoes while surrounded by gunships in the sky, just so I can tell people how safe it is there. I would, instead, go on a fact-finding tour."

[bigtree]

9. I think he can still turn this to an advantage by staying focused on the lack of political progress

Bush (and McCain) insist our troops are there to facilitate.

And, like he said, he doesn't need to go to Iraq just to talk to Petraeus again.

[Youphemism]

16. You have a point...

...He should go there and spent some time talking to the Iraqi political leaders. I think McCain is pretty weak in that area, and it would positively highlight the difference in approach.

(I still think he should talk to the military, or he would take criticism for it. He should make a point of thanking some soldiers for their service, and ask what they need.)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. I'm starting to warm to the idea of them making a joint trip there.

The "Old War Horse" with the "Stage Hand" (thanks to the idiot RW pundit who described him thus).

Barack Obama got the second highest amount of campaign contributions from soldiers stationed in Iraq, after Ron Paul, another anti-war candidate. I would love to see both of them address the troops over there. Somehow, I'm guessing that Barack will get more applause and more GI's clamoring to talk to him.

I'm a veteran and I sense this will be the case.

[kid a]

10. great message!! Thank you.

[DerekJ]

11. Look bigtree. If I may I've couple of things to say:

As a Canadian supporting Obama I've no right to ask for Hillary to drop out (never did). I never insulted her (Well only once, I called her a F*** republican after the 3 A.M AD, but I think you can forgive me for that). I never made a broad brush insult against her supporters (hillbots etc..). I never participated in any pity gate (book bag-gate to name one) on the contrary I asked O supporters to drop it.

Having said that, I will not stand Idle against HRC supporters that are trying to smear Obama. I will stand firm against that, I will defend Obama, and I will insult the trolls.

So we want to move to the GE. But we won't stand Idle against the smear attempts, especially when it's word for word from RW sources.

I hope you understand that.

[grantcart]

12. thank you for returning with your keen observations

and always a great photograph.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

13. Bigtree

I respect your OPs.

BUT....

When THIS DU board changes from primaries to general ---- I will stop being pissed off at what I have watched from the Hillary campaign.

This happens to be a board to discuss the primary candidates.

But I feel your pain.

[bigtree]

17. I'm pretty much through waiting for the 'board' to change

. . . and the (Democratic) candidates seem to be getting along just fine.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

25. Getting along fine?

Not with each other...

[bigtree]

27. I heard him praise her the other day

and the criticisms are extremely muted.

This has been a mild primary contest fought with kiddy gloves. Both politicians will find value in a unified party when it's over. There will be comity between the two because their political futures depend on that working relationship.

[Writer]

15. I dunno why, Bigtree. But that man owes me $6 for lunch!

[casus belli]

22. For the same reason you don't go to war with Iraq when Afghanistan is still in progress.

Or have we learned nothing about fighting two wars at once?

[bigtree]

23. really? I don't think that's a good analogy

unless you cast our primary as a blunder.

And, if you weren't already aware . . . the general campaign is already in progress, as our primary looks to be coming to a predictable close.

[casus belli]

24. "In progress", not so much

It is a rather difficult and delicate position for Obama to put himself in by campaigning too vigorously for GE position at this point. I think a lot of Hillary supporters would consider it a further sign of disrespect. So, as long as he has this contest going, he can't really devote his time, energy or resources to the GE in any tangible way. Regardless of what many people may think of Obama, he has tried to respect Hillary's position and give her space to wage her campaign on her own terms. Some of my fellow supporters, maybe not so much, but Obama himself has not shown her any disrespect.

edit: and yes, I actually do cast our primary as a blunder. Though, admittedly, there are a number of groups who have to accept blame equally for that. But, ultimately you're right - it wasn't the best analogy.

[bigtree]

28. with few exceptions, Sen. Obama had been a gentleman

I appreciate his thoughtful responses to several of the 'controversies' in this campaign.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. Because Clinton's actions since March have been aimed at

destroying Obama as a viable candidate for the General Election. Her argument is that she is the only one who can win in November, however to make that true she actually has to do her best to make Obama unelectable. Thus 'the Kitchen Sink Strategy'. The Obama campaign has for the most part not responded in kind, but it also cannot simply ignore her. Just playing defense doesn't cut it. As for DU, the Obama supporters here were not and are not simply going to let the Clinton supporters spam this place with the latest talking points against Obama. 'Let it sink' was a miserable failure.

But it will all be over shortly, unless you decide to get on the Zombie Express to Denver next week.

[bigtree]

32. standard politics for a race this close. He got criticized and had to defend himself.

That's not unheard of in a campaign. He looks to be moving on and that's what I would counsel for his supporters, IF they are actually as concerned with winning the general election as they claim, as they are ragging on Clinton for holding them up.

As for spam. Look around you. There isn't any room to breathe here for Clinton supporters. It's fantasy, and dishonest to suggest that those few Clinton posts are preventing you from promoting your candidate instead of spending post after post attacking his rival as most folks do here. And it's fantasy and dishonest to suggest that anyone in our party is going to be more responsible for the success of the Obama campaign than the senator himself.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. This close? Even the Clinton campaign has admitted

that they lost the primary race on super tuesday. They had no strategy for after 2/5. Since then it has all been about 'electability'. The Clinton campaign has been focused on convincing the super delegates to override the primary results - and they lost that argument a long time ago as well. Now they are focused on changing the freaking rules of the game. And when that fails? Are you really getting on that Bus?

"There isn't any room to breathe here for Clinton supporters." - well your numbers are dwindling. Lots of pizza deliveries and disgruntled exits. Even a few conversions. I don't believe the mods and admins have been unfair or biased or pro-Obama in this matter. If anything, they are allowing this to carry on far too long.

Yes indeed the DU rank and file have self-organized around our party's presumptive nominee ahead of any formal declaration from the Obama campaign or any decision from the board owners. We are not confused by Clinton's dishonest bullshit over popular vote, electability, rules, 3am capabilities, or unexpected June events. We know who is going to be on the ticket in the GE. I