Are those who don't vote for Kerry on Nov. 2

[PSU84]

complicit in all of Bush's future crimes? Yes or no? I say yes.

[blondeatlast]

1. Tough call, but in the end I say

YES.

Edit: It's like overhearing the robbery being planned and refusing to call the police.

This election is the most important in my lifetime, and my first vote was for the great James Earl Carter.

Nader needs to go, quietly.

[Padraig18]

2. Yes.

Guilty as sin, IMO.

[jpgray]

3. Not unless they vote for Bush

A progressive who votes for someone other than Kerry is indirectly helping Bush and indirectly hurting Kerry, but that's about all one can say about it.

[DaveinMD]

4. bullshit

if you don't vote for Kerry, you are helping Bush. Its that simple.

[jpgray]

6. Sure, but only indirectly

There is a difference between a vote for Bush and not voting for Kerry. One directly helps Bush, and the other helps him indirectly. I would say the latter does not equate to being complicit in anything Bush does. I get the rhetorical point people are trying to make here, but it's over the top and it doesn't make much sense. The only people I would say are directly helping Bush and are complicit in his activities are those who vote for him.

[DaveinMD]

12. those that didn't directly challenge hitler

when he first rose to power were indirectly complicit in his crimes.

[louis c]

5. I Wish the English Language Had

a more positive word than "YES", that's what I'd use. But, alas, yes will have to do.

[cynatnite]

7. I gotta say No

There are some who actually believe he is an honest god-fearing man like my mother and grandmother. They'll vote for him because they think he's better and because they believe his christian values are the same as theirs. This is based more on their faith rather than fact, though.

I don't think a general sweep of all voters who vote for Bush is complicit, just wrong.

Cyn:)

[PSU84]

8. Naivete is no excuse.

People should be aware by now of the immense harm that Bush has done to the economy, to the environment, to the soldiers of the Army and Marines, to the poor, to our standing among our allies, and to our national security. Tell your granny to stop watching Fox News and use that big brain that God gave her.

[cynatnite]

9. I like my life

I'll let you tell her that and see how far you get <g>

Anyways, a person's vote for one doesn't make them complicit. It just makes them wrong. As much as I think supporting Bush is wrong, and as much as I think that he's the worst president ever, a lot of people will disagree with you.

When the jobs numbers came out, you could find any number of arguments why it proved that under Bush the economy has improved.

Iraq's soccer team beat Portugal. There is an Iraq woman whose home got a complete makeover. They will use those examples to show that things in Iraq are improving. It's the minority which makes it look otherwise.

I haven't found anyone to support Bush's environmental record, but they will say that Bush isn't a tree-hugger. He cares more about people than a few trees or even acres of land.

What I'm saying is that this all boils down to perspectives and trust. They don't believe anyone in their right mind would put our military in harm's way just to fulfill their wish to control the oil industry. They don't believe that the alert codes would be used for political gains.

They don't think anyone in their right mind would abuse the office and their power as far as we know they have. They look at these things as an attempt to smear the president.

I just don't agree that an entire section of the population should take part of the blame for trusting the wrong man.

Cyn:)

[Wheelie_Alex]

10. I completely agree.

Bush supporters are not these evil aliens that can only be seen with special glasses. They have kids, bills, worries and are spread along the whole spectrum of tax brackets.

They see in Bush someone who speaks to the issues they hold dear and shares their principles. Just like we see every word coming out of Bush's mouth as Bullshit Concentrate, they see the same thing in Kerry. They are misguided and they have used the same word to describe me.

Just like Freedom of Speech, I see the Right to Vote as absolute. If their guy wins, then they will have the government they deserve. I will be the first to say "I told you so."

[kentuck]

14. They have a plug in their asshole and....

their senses are backed up like a sewer, covering up their eye teeth, and they can't see where they're going....Like Limbaugh, we'll just give them all an enema and bury them in a shoebox...

[cynatnite]

15. Now I See One of the Reasons We Get the Bad Rap We DO n/t

[greatauntoftriplets]

19. And many of us are related to people who will vote for *

I may not agree, but they are a part of my life. Sad but true.

[TNMOM]

11. yes. but we all pay.

EOM

[Walt Starr]

13. IMO, thoise who didn't vote for Gore in 2000

are either willing or unknowing accomplices in his current crimes.

[union_maid]

16. It can, if they know better

In 2000 I felt that Nader would be complicit in whatever atrocities this adminstration committed. Because he knew better. A lot of his supporters didn't. They were led to believe that the only reason we didn't have a multi-party system was because of strongarming by the two parties. They didn't really understand the difference between our system and those that can support third parties. They also believed him when he said "no difference". They didn't have the life experience to understand what a difference it could make. So many of them were college students or other young people who hadn't really been involved with politics. This time, however there's no excuse. Who was it on here who used to say, "voting isn't therapy" and I think it's Randi Rhodes who says "voting isn't art". I could have those quotes mixed up, but it's true. You own your vote and it's the effect of that vote that counts. If it helps keep Bush in office, then that's what you've done and you own that, too.

Same goes for Bush supporters. Last time I thought they were just wrong, but still they wanted essentially the same things as everyone did. We just thought that you had to take different paths to get there. That's no longer an excuse. A vote for Bush is a vote for homophobia, theocracy, rape of the environment and a lot of real bad policy, not to mention continuing mayhem all over the globe. I don't think there's any excuse for not seeing that at this point.

[cynatnite]

17. Problem lies in this

People just have different values. I believe in pro-choice, gay rights, protecting our environment, etc.

A lot of republicans believe that abortion is wrong. Period. Homosexuality is wrong. Period., etc. These are fundamental beliefs which I don't see either side coming together on.

As far as the policy decisions, that's just all a matter of perspectives. While one side sees the war as illegal and immoral, others will believe it should have been done a long time ago and believe Saddam posed a threat to us.

We've gotten foot stomping mad at the media for what we see as unfair biasness towards Bush and against Kerry. But when it's in the other direction, the other side is screaming 'liberal media' is at it again.

Look at it this way, if Kerry wins the White House and things don't go well or he makes some mistakes, are we complicit in what he does in the future?

Should we take partial responsibility for voting for him?

Cyn:)

[Lefty Pragmatist]

18. Oh ferchissakes, of course not!

The dumbest statement ever made is "if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem." That point of view is fascist -- it says there is only one True Path and everybody else is a criminal.

Complete b.s. I really wonder about this place sometimes.

[maxanne]

20. in that case

everyone in Congress who has enabled Bush is complicit - including you-know-who.

You might find that stance a little problematic, yes??

[Green Lantern]

21. Ah

Democracy in action--if you are not with us you're against us, huh?
Where have I heard that before????

[Proud liberal Kat]

22. No

There are people who are good people and Americans (some who I personally know) who just can't see things the way I see them regarding Bush...I don't understand it. But I know for a fact that these people aren't evil, they don't hate the World, they just are conservatives and not liberals. They don't believe, can't believe, don't have the time nor inclination to find the facts that would make them believe that BushCo is horribly betraying them and their country. Misguided I could say they were but complicit in his crimes and raping of the world I don't think so.
Kathy

[Green Lantern]

23. I have been reading

Thomas Frank's book "What's the Matter with Kansas" and am about 1/3 of the way through it. He raises the issues you do in this post. You might enjoy the read, as he is explaining how folks who were ardent progressives and populists began voting against their own interests in the last 25 years. Kind of a combo of the Madison Ave approach of "I can sell you anything" and using the religious beliefs and moral issues to shift the political horizon away from economic issues and following one's own interest, to creating a Ministry of Propaganda to change people's focus to issues in life style, such as gun control or abortion. The latter are important issues, but don't directly aid in the governance of our country. The economic issues of regulation/dereg or corporate governance and criminal corporate behavior, or tax equity are lost in the smoke and mirrors. He explains how they took folks heads out of the game and substituted their emotional processes in the war they qage in the election process. It is fascinating and makes a great deal of sense.

Sorry-didn't mean to re-write his stuff here-but I would really recommend the book.

[Xipe Totec]

24. The ONLY Way to keep EVERYBODY In Step,

Is if we ALL goose step together.


There must always be room for dissenting opinions. Otherwise there's no difference between us and....

... the other side :eyes:

Here is a quote from the poison Condi herself, showing she does not believe in the two party system:

Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, recently offered her version of the traditional American story, speaking to the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

She said the time has come "to break the destructive pattern of great power rivalry that has bedeviled the world since the rise of the nation-state in the 17th century."

Europe must repudiate the "multipolarity" that in the past "was a necessary evil that sustained the absence of war but did not promote the triumph of peace," she said. "Multipolarity is a theory of rivalry, of competing powers - and at its worst, competing values. We have tried this before. It led to the Great War."

http://www.iht.com/articles/101891.html

One Nation, One Party, One Führer.