How can she be so stupid?

[cali]

It appears that Hillary is on the verge of refusing to accept the RBC ruling if it's not precisely what she demands- and it won't be. But doing so is incredibly stupid, and she's not remotely that. She'll do nothing but further alienate Super Delegates; both the uncommitted ones and those committed to Obama and to her.

What on earth does she stand to gain by such a move? If she's trying to poison the well for Obama, she's also poisoning the well for herself. She sure the hell won't be the choice in 2012 if Obama loses this year.

Hillary is done no matter what happens. Why would she choose to do something that harms her own political future?

Honestly, I find it completely puzzling.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. -1

[CreekDog]

4. who the heck are you?

you just get here and you know how this person posts?

what gives? :wtf:

[Greyskye]

5. You came up w/ that brilliant observation, and it's your 1st day here!

Welcome to DU I suppose. Sorry to evidently see that it's going to be a short visit. :eyes:

[Greyskye]

8. That was quick!

Buh-bye now! :hi:

[Cha]

48. So quick I didn't catch

the name.

[CreekDog]

2. Short term PR that enables maintaining the message "it's still not over..."

that's all I got.

[Brundle_Fly]

6. she's surrounded herself with Yes Men...

she lives in her campaign bubble. As far as she knows there is a small contingent of people saying she should leave... she will be schooled in the truth I think.

[kenny blankenship]

16. She's heard from her inner circle that it's over

but the corporate lawyer in her won't let her listen. It's always good to remember that Hillary is a lawyer by training and vocation, becoming a retail politician only late in life. A politician wants to win by the acclaim of the delegates and voters--they live for that validation, but a corporate land shark would feel more satisfied by screwing someone else out of the win by twisting the process and the rules. A politician feels they have "earned it" --their reward or self-respect--when the voters love them. A land shark "earns it" when everyone hates them but they won anyway.

Hillary probably sees working the rules and the Judge as an equal half of the game, and the half that she's actually more comfortable working in. I'm surprised we haven't heard more about her corporate law career as a determinative influence so far in the campaign. Maybe we will when it's all over and pundits analyze why she felt compelled to continue.

Although I apologize to sharks for certain metaphorical comparisons made in this post, I do wish to state that no actual sharks or any other members of the order Elasmobranchii were harmed.

[tabasco]

42. I believe that assertion is borne out by her treatment of Bill Richardson

after he endorsed Obama.

She does not like bad news. So, just like Bush, she surrounds herself with sycophants.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Clinton = Khan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdzUi4YUMMs&feature=related

[Raineyb]

45. So if she takes this to the convention

will we be calling the aftermath the Wrath of Khan?

Regards

[bunnies]

9. Shes drunk with her own quest for power.

Its the only thing I can think of.

[tridim]

10. Because she's stupid..

And ruthless, and stubborn, and arrogant, and narcissistic.

She's also that word I can't say here.

[elehhhhna]

11. Look, he marriage is a sham, he kid's out of the nest, and she's faced with becoming irrelevant.

POst-Midlife crisis.

[Marrah_G]

20. WTF? If that is what you think I have doubts about whether you are on the right board

You are talking about a VERY accomplished woman, known and respected around the globe. You reduce her to nothing but a wife and mother? And then you further reduce her to "irrelevancy" because her child is grown, she is now getting older and her marriage has had rocky spots? As if her only value has ever been that she married and had a child? How unbelievably insulting you are. Shame on you and those who think like you.

[elehhhhna]

23. SHame yourself, honey. She got the partmership b/c her hubs was Gov.,

and a Senate seat b/c he'd been President.

By your logic I can run a huuuuuuuge commercial construction company b/c I've been married to the hubster for 22 years.

SHE LOST. GET OVER IT.

[Marrah_G]

28. I always shake my head when I see women with such sexist attitudes about their own gender

I feel badly for you.

I am not one who sees sexism around every corner. But your comments are incredibly sexist and truly disgusting, ESPECIALLY since you are female.

[elehhhhna]

35. shake away, then, baby... since when are FACTS "sexist"?

[Marrah_G]

36. Your belief that a womans value is based on marriage and children- THAT is sexist

Thinking that women lose "relevancy" when they get older, have marriage issues and their children becaome adults. THAT is sexist. Those were you words.

I'm done with this conversation. I pity women like you. Pathetic.

[elehhhhna]

38. You are psychic! I'm talking about HILLARY, not everywoman.

get a grip

[Labors of Hercules]

51. These people are just plain nuts...

AS IF Hillary is some strong feminist leader who rocked the world on her own.

It's total delusional bullshit.

THERE ARE BETTER WOMEN TO LEAD THIS COUNTRY!!

[ampad]

57. I love how they try to push

Hillary "accomplishments" on all women as if we are all impressed. Some of us see it for what it is; especially those of us who have got where we are without the name recongnition that Hillary has so enjoyed. Also love the way the sexist meme is thrown out every time they get pissed or someone challenges Hillary's accomplishments.

[ampad]

56. LOL, tell it like it is!

You know my husband is a sonar tech for the Navy. I wonder if they will allow me to operate that submarine the next time he goes under way. I mean he has been doing it for 11yrs and we have been married for six. :rofl:

[Lucinda]

39. Mind boggling, isn't it?

[Shae]

55. Never mind . . .

Have a nice day.

[emilyg]

43. Stay barefoot and pregnant - good for you.

You set women back.

[TLM]

59. Yes exactly... disagreeing with Hillary means you support beating women... sexist!

How dare they not recognize that Hillary is supremely perfect, and reached that amazing status all on her own... with no help from any of those devil men.

How can they not understand that any criticism of Hillary is tantamount to demanding that women have the right to vote removed, and be imprisoned in their homes?

I'm glad to see you understand this.

[elehhhhna]

63. bite me! I set women back, here's how:

Recruited for the first "co-ed" graduating class from West Point. Dropped out of college when Dad died. Worked my ass off in sales to become VP of a small co at 33. Kept my husband home with our two baby girls for five years. Worked tirelessly on a recent winning Congressional campaign to turn Tom DeLay's seat BLUE. Have trained and mentored some very successful young women -- 2 excellent daughters included.

I got wherever & whatever I got by MYSELF.

[dchill]

47. Since January 3, 2008...

...the Iowa Caucus.

[TLM]

58. Whaaa sexism sexism sexism.... stop hiding behind her gender.

Hillary would be little more than a footnote if she weren't the wife of a former governor/president.

I realize her supporters very badly want to celebrate her gender, and pretending she's a self made woman helps in that whole phony image of hillary as a super competent strong independent woman.

But the fact remains, she's ridden on Bill's coattails her whole life.

Without him, she'd be lucky to get elected to city council.

I mean she can't even beat a newbie senator from Chicago, right? All her followers scream daily how Obama has no experience, he isn't ready to lead, and all he has is a speech. Yet he's still beating her. She's poured millions of her own dollars (something else she wouldn't have were it not for Bill's speaking fees and book) and she still can't beat him. She's reduced to whining about popular vote fuzzy math, excluding caucus states, and trying to count voters in territories that can't even vote in the GE.

AND STILL SHE IS BEHIND

With everything that she has at her disposal to use as a direct result of being married to a former president and governor, she still isn't able to pull it off. So how do you think she'd be doing without the resources Bill brings to the table?

[casus belli]

31. She's responsible for ruining her own legacy.

She should realkly be more mindful of what exactly it is she's doing here. Her chips no longer count towards winning the game, but she still has much to lose.

I respect Senator Clinton. I hope she is able to leave the race with her record and reputation intact. But, ultimately, that's her call and she hasn't been given the best advice on how to proceed by her inner circle.

[BonnieJW]

33. Then stupidity is the only other reason.

Why else would someone that accomplished throw it all away? What point is she making? There is already someone in the White House who is rigid, inflexible, unreasonable. Do we need someone else just like that?

[Bucky]

30. Honestly, somedays it's like you just got out from under the rock

You need the fall campaign more than most of us. You need to be reminded that Republicans are our real opponents.

We're on the verge taking control of the Executive and both Houses of Congress. It's time to start shifting from griping opposition mode over to governing and finding solutions mode.

Before you piss in the soup, make sure you have more incredients and a back up recipe.

[not_too_L8]

12. It's unfortunate that she has chosen this path..

she could have been a positive force in our political quest

[shadowknows69]

13. Maybe she's been promised some big gifts from her corporate masters

To destroy the Democratic chances in the GE? It seems to be her only reason for remaining at this point. I honestly think she maybe actually believes that people will forgive and forget and give her the chance in 2012.

[cali]

15. Maybe she has convinced herself that Obama can't win

and that she'll be forgiven if she draws this process out to the convention. People certainly are capable of deluding themselves.

[TLM]

61. I think she already got the big gifts.... millions fo them.

Bill has been selling influence on contingency.

Getting millions in speaking fees on the assumption they'd be back in the white house.


They have to get back in the white house, or there's going to be a lot of scary people who want their money back.

[Poll_Blind]

14. Cenk Uygur proposed a possible answer: She REALLY might be clueless.

  I can't say I believe it but Occam's Razor and all. That's competing for the most-likely reality behind her moves.

  Some others which would make more sense from the standpoint that she is as politically-savvy as one would expect:

-She's alienating so many to form her own party, bringing her base with her

-She's alienating so many to join McCain as his VP, bringing her base with her

  Back to Cenk's idea. It doesn't involve thinking that she's stupid, merely clueless. There's a qualitative difference.

PB

[wiggs]

54. Sounds distressingly like McClellan observations that Bush can convince himself

to believe something if it furthers his overall goal. Perhaps that's exactly what is going on here.

[Mme. Defarge]

17. I think

that the theory that best explains her behavior is that this is not about her becoming the president, but about either getting the nomination, or destroying Obama's chances of winning the election. Because, the goal of those who are pulling her strings is to stack the deck in their favor. From their standpoint, if she is the nominee, then it doesn't matter who wins the election, whereas someone who is outside of their control CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO WIN.

Hillary is not stupid, so the only thing that explains her self-destructive behavior is if she is being pressured by those who bet on her becoming the nominee, and who now expect something in return.

[ieoeja]

18. Because it still helps the DLC.

Why did Florida break the rules? The DLC wanted to make the DNC look bad so they can convince Democrats to let them re-take control of the party.

Why help to defeat Obama in the general election? The DLC wants to make certain no non-DLCer ever wins the presidency so they can convince Democrats to turn to them for a nominee.

Would she sacrifice herself for the DLC? Probably not. But would her advisors? Bet your pretty little ass they would.

Of course, I am more than 50% convinced the DLC is a rightwing stealth organization with the intention of (1) undermining the Democratic Party from within and (2) hedging their bets by getting the most corporate friendly Democrat in place to mitigate the damage of a Democrat winning. So I have no problems believing they would play Hillary for a fool.

For all the, "Clintons are so brilliant," talk, the fact is Bill Clinton was a made man. He didn't select the DLC. They selected him. And Hillary? She failed as a lawyer in DC. She switched parties in 1968 because her fellow GOPers treated her rudely at the RNC that year.

The most volatile year in American politics in the past 100 years, and she switches parties because her fucking feelings got hurt? It is really not difficult at all to believe she is an ignorant tool for a bunch of power brokers.

[Marrah_G]

19. She is doing what she thinks is right for the country.

[cali]

21. Marrah, Hillary Clinton knows she's lost.

And if she refuses the RBC decision, which is almost certainly a compromise, she won't be furthering her chances at gaining the nomination. They're non-existent anyway. And she will anger and alienate SDs.

How can you say she's staying in a race she's lost for the good of the country?

[Marrah_G]

25. I said I think that she is doing what she thinks is right.

I also think she will probably drop out next week and unfortunately Obama will get the nomination. I don't believe she is stupid or evil or trying to ruin the country as people like to spout off here a dozen times a day.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Then answer the question, how could she be so stupid?

You'd have to be stupid, or maybe drunk, to think this is good for the country.

[The Inquisitive]

66. zing!

[cali]

29. I understand you feel about Obama as I feel about Hillary.

I think she would have made a very, very poor nominee, and I have little faith in her being a decent president. I hope you're right about her dropping out. She has no legitimate reason to stay in once he gets the requisite number of delegates.

[Marrah_G]

32. Just as I hope you are right about him winning the GE and being a good president

I don't hate him. I just have close to no confidence in him.

[Yukari Yakumo]

22. No, she is doing what she thinks is right for herself. {nt}

uguu

[Big Blue Marble]

24. She is doing what she thinks is right for Hillary.

She only knows one thing to do. Keep fighting. It has worked for her many times and it is the attitude that is
informing her delusion that she can still win this if she just applies enough determination.

[lojasmo]

27. If she quits Tuesday, I'll still believe that.

If she goes past next week, it will have become obvious that she's only in it for herself.

[Cha]

49. THen she's too stupid to be

pres. We don't need her warhog, lying approach..get a clue, hilary. Hint..it's not about you.

[Danger Mouse]

50. Marrah...I think you rock....but I disagree with you on this.

[Big Blue Marble]

34. This new book may explain what is going on.

Sway The Irresistible Pull Of Irrational Behavior. Ori Brafman and Rom Brafman.

One of the premises of this book is that the pain of loss effects us deeply and causes us to act irrationally and against
our own long-term interests. The authors call it "loss aversion." They also cite "commitment" to explain irrational behavior
we will keep fighting because we have devoted so many resources to our endeavor. The very act of what we have invested
keeps us committed to a continuing investment.

http://www.swaybook.com/reviews.html

[azmouse]

37. I've been wondering the same things.

Who in their right mind would vote for her in 2012 if she ruins the Dem party chances this year?

[IsItJustMe]

40. Republican plant.

[slinkerwink]

41. it's revenge. The Democratic Party jilted her like a boyfriend so she's got to key his car.

[Raine]

44. Panic creates STUPIDITY

that's the only thing I can come up with.

[Forkboy]

46. Practice?

:evilgrin:

[paulk]

52. maybe she knows something you don't

:shrug:

[quaker bill]

53. Because she

is the "comeback kid mark 2.0". She is impervious and invulnerable. She will rise from the ashes like the phoenix and save us all from our delusions. Adversity only makes her stronger.

Of course, all of this is delusion. The only candidate in recent memory who took a contested race to the convention, lost, and later gained the party nomination was Ronald Reagan. No Democrat has done this in a very long time. After losing a contested race at the convention, only one retained his seat in the Senate (Ted Kennedy), the rest more or less ended their political careers this way. This is one area where I see no need for change.

[Occam Bandage]

60. She wouldn't have come this far if she hadn't completely convinced herself

that she was the only one who could beat John McCain, and that nominating Barack Obama would lead to certain defeat.

[Samantha]

62. It might be for purely rational reasons she's lost the ability to reason

Hillary Clinton is 60 years old. This campaign has lasted over 16 months. It's been a grueling ordeal for both her and Obama. The weariness sometimes shows on Obama's face, and I believe he's 14 years younger (plus he's got the testosterone thing going on).

It's a proven fact that prolonged sleep deprivation impairs a person's ability to make rational judgments. I am not a Hillary proponent, and have not been since 2003. However, I do not understand how she has made it through the rigors of this campaign without collapsing from exhaustion. Even I, who do not promote Hillary, see her behavior of late as totally irrational but somewhat understandable. I think it's entirely possible that pure exhaustion, coupled with sleep deprivation and a poor diet, might possibly be contributing to her bizarre behavior. And the more time that goes on, the more bizarre that conduct appears.

This is a sincere attempt to make a suggestion as to why this woman is at this point truly not acting like herself. I do not agree with many of the political positions she has taken but that does not impair my ability to see that she is not herself. And there might be truly understandable reasons for that. Even during the Clinton impeachment debacle, a totally stressful few months, she did not exhibit the strange behavior she's exhibiting now, or utter the absolute asinine-type statements she makes now. It's totally out of character. Self-serving, yes she is. Win-at-costs, so she plays. Manipulative, yes. But most importantly, she's lost the ability to stand away from the situation, take an objective look at the facts, and make the appropriate decision. Appropriate in that context means not only the better decision for the party, but the better decision for her own person. That total loss of objectivity, I feel, kind of fits in with this theory ...

[barack the house]

64. I never understood where folks say she is harming barack she seems on self destruct to me.

[DeschutesRiver]

65. I am wondering if this is another ruse

to make it appear that she is willing to bring out big guns and put immense pressure on anyone to get her way. She likes to pretend alot that she is big, and strong, and powerful. You remember - she is willing to OBLITERATE the ME if they don't do exactly what she says, but of course she is confident that if she merely threatens, they will do as told. Crazy talk. If this goes on past next week, then I will start finding it puzzling as well.

But I think she is only trying to puff herself up big and look as threatening as she can until the last 2 states, just in case it could make a difference. I am getting more certain that she has no intention of going past those, no matter what she states now. It is a bluff.