Hillary: FL, MI broke the rules, forgive them, and no delegates to Obama

[ProSense]

In today's conference call, the Clinton campaign conceded any rules-based or fairness-based argument for the full seating of the Florida and Michigan delegations. The Clinton campaign declared that, unlike Iowa, NH and South Carolina, Florida and Michigan did indeed break the DNC rules and without justification. The Clinton campaign expressly disagreed with the Michigan Democratic Party's contention that the DNC had selectively enforced its rules by allowing New Hampshire and South Carolina to break the sanctioned primary schedule, that Florida was not entitled to a safe harbor or waiver, and that the DNC had acted properly and within the rules when it stripped Florida and Michigan of its delegates.

link

*** UPDATE *** Also on the conference call, the campaign repeated what it said it earlier in the week: that it wants the full Florida and Michigan delegations to be seated; that it wants them seated according to the January primary votes in each state; and that the "uncommitted" votes in Michigan can't be given to Obama -- they must remain uncommitted.

"We are hopeful and confident that after hearing all the arguments and hearing all the facts ... that all the delegates will be seated and all of them will have a full vote," Ickes said.

Moreover, the Clinton's campaign general counsel issued a letter to members of the DNC's Rules and Bylaws committee, which takes issue with the DNC analysis suggesting that Florida and Michigan must be penalized by at least 50%. "The RBC," the letter says, "has broad powers to fully reinstate the Florida and Michigan delegations. Rule 20(C)(7) allows the RBC to forgive violations when a state party and other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials have taken provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to bring the state into compliance with the DNC’s Delegate Selection Rules."

link

May 30, 2008, 1:28 pm

Clinton Camp’s Argument: No Michigan Delegates for You

By Katharine Q. Seelye

Senator Hillary Clinton’s campaign says that the Democratic party cannot award any of the “uncommitted” delegates from Michigan to any specific candidate, setting up a potentially major battle with the campaign of Senator Barack Obama.

At issue are the results of the Michigan primary, in which 55 percent of voters voted for Mrs. Clinton while about 40 percent of voters cast their ballots for “uncommitted.” Mr. Obama and most other Democrats had taken themselves off the ballot.

A proposal has been floating in advance of a party rules committee meeting tomorrow that would award all or a portion of those “uncommitted” Michigan delegates to Mr. Obama.

But the Clinton campaign intends to argue that Mr. Obama should receive zero delegates from Michigan because those delegates awarded to “uncommitted” have to go to the convention uncommitted.

more

Maybe the RBC will decide that FL, MI broke the rules, and rules are rules.

Then Hillary can decide how to come to grips with her arrogance and delusion.


Edited to fix link.

[polichick]

1. The absurdity of this position goes beyond words!

[high density]

2. Clinton loves those Stalin/Hussein type elections

What a wonderful person she is.

[wileedog]

3. What, no pony to go with that?

[LSparkle]

4. Talk about NOT BEING GRACIOUS ... NO delegates at all???

Like there's NOT ONE SINGLE VOTER in all of Michigan who wanted to
vote for Obama? How can anyone in their right mind (OK, even someone
as fucking DELUSIONAL as Her Royal Crappiness) argue something so
inane????????

She's isn't giving one inch, not one iota. And that's not being
STRONG and being a "good" FIGHTER, that's acting like the arrogant,
haughty, entitled, STUBBORN BITCH that she is. That's not the
kind of leader we want -- that is GEORGE W. BUSH IN A PANTSUIT.

Switching to decaf now ...

[tabatha]

5. Hillary is engaging in VOTER SUPPRESION.

Especially in MI.

[PBS Poll-435]

7. Except....How many people voted for Obama in Michigan?

Hillary and I think we should count EVERY single Obama vote in MI!

[rox63]

8. The voters had the choice of voting for Hillary - 40% didn't

Obama's the only other candidate left in the race. He should get all the "Not Hillary" (aka "Uncommitted") delegates.

[PBS Poll-435]

10. But he didn't get a single vote in Michigan?

Ya'll want to talk about Soviet/Stalin style elections....

Awarding 40% of the delegates to the person who got 0% of the votes?

[slinkerwink]

12. He got 79% of the Uncommitted vote based on the exit polls

[PBS Poll-435]

16. That is fantastic!

It sucks that exit polls don't award delegates, however.

[slinkerwink]

19. actually, the DNC lawyers said it could

[PBS Poll-435]

21. We will see what happens.

[arewenotdemo]

35. Dolt.

[ProSense]

9. Start here: "Florida and Michigan did indeed break the DNC rules and without justification." n/t

[slinkerwink]

11. 79% of Uncommitted was for Obama judging on exit polls

[hokies4ever]

15. ZING! Take that prod2000

Don't expect a response by the way. :rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

18. BRB - Flipping throught the DNC rulebook........Yep, found it! No delegates awarded by exit-polls.

[slinkerwink]

20. Check out page 5 from the DNC lawyers

[tabatha]

28. No delegates awarded to states who broke the rules.

[PBS Poll-435]

29. If it were than cut & dry, why even have an RBC meeting?

Why did the "DNC lawyers" spend all that time writing that report?

[hokies4ever]

33. Cherry-picking rules now?

:rofl:

[Lerkfish]

22. Bill....is that you?

and why are you speaking for Hillary?

:)

[tabatha]

25. Yes, as in countries that have only one name on the ballot.

[PBS Poll-435]

26. I seem to remember there being more than one name on the ballot.

Please don't make stuff up.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Forgive them their mistakes, then let them support you for president...

Things that make you go 'hmmmm.'

[grantcart]

13. they should take away the Illinois delegates as well

The thing is that they are just embarassing themselves now.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

14. I, for one, would welcome a full seating of FL and MI delegates

Once it is clear there are no penalties for breaking DNC rules, all the other states will begin moving their primaries earlier and earlier. Pretty soon all the primaries for the next few hundred years will be held on next Tuesday. Think of all the time and money we will save by being able to vote in all of those primaries all at once!

[Coexist]

17. NO DELEGATES 4 YOU!

[crickets]

32. Bwahaha! Good one. -nt

[americanstranger]

23. The smackdown will be short, harsh and to the point.

50-50 split, I predict.

Then watch the asploding heads.

- as

[Norwood]

24. This is just asinine

Shes been bawling for the last few weeks that EVERY VOTE NEEDS TO BE COUNTED!!!!!.........except of course those votes that went to or would have went to Obama, screw them they don't count. How she still has any support at all is beyond me, shes treading into GW Bush territory.

[Blomst]

27. I thought Hillary said that she cared deeply

about the fact that all votes should be counted. Obviously, the "disenfranchised" Obama voters who voted uncommitted don't count, in her eyes.

[PBS Poll-435]

31. And just how do you know which Uncommitted are actually Obama votes?

The Sixth Sense?


:scared:

[Max_powers94]

30. I DO NOT want this person to be the POTUS in my life time and i am 30 yrs old.

[dansolo]

34. How are the uncommitted delegates selected

Normally the pledged delegates are selected from a particular candidate's supporters. If they are uncommitted, where do they come from? How are they selected?

[ProSense]

36. Do Florida And Michigan Primaries Really Reflect The Will Of The People? Nope.

Do Florida And Michigan Primaries Really Reflect The Will Of The People? Nope.

By Eric Kleefeld - May 30, 2008, 5:46PM

As the DNC prepares to decide the fates of the Florida and Michigan delegations tomorrow, a key question has to be asked: Did those rogue primaries truly reflect the will of their states' Democratic voters?

The case against that proposition, it turns out, is a fairly compelling one in statistical terms.

Here's why: If you take a close look at the numbers, it turns out that while the Florida primary turnout was high relative to past primaries within the state, the relative Democratic turnout vs. the Republican primary lagged way behind relative party turnout in other primaries and caucuses across the country, where the voting counted from the start. And in Michigan in particular, the voting level there was simply abysmal.

This suggests the possibility that far more Democratic voters would have come out in both states if they'd expected the contests to count, meaning that it's hard to argue that the primaries that actually took place really reflected the will of the people.

This is important context to keep in mind given that the Hillary campaign will argue tomorrow that the only way of preserving the people's will is giving them the solution they want -- a full seating of both delegations in accordance with the primary voting.

A detailed explanation after the jump.

more

[jenmito]

37. This is what I have to say about that:

[ProSense]

38. Clinton's Michigan argument

May 31, 2008

Clinton's Michigan argument

It comes from former Governor Jim Blanchard, who calls New Hampshire a "political theme park." He wants full seating, with none of the uncommitted going to Obama.

During the Q & A, Don Fowler -- a Clinton supporter known for his independence -- says he rejects the idea that Michigan was a "flawed" primary because, even though Obama and others took their name off the ballot, it was in compliance with the rules -- except for the timing violation, which would mean a 50% penalty.

When asked about the uncommitted, Blanchard says they'll probably be for Obama, but "you never know."

Who knew?