Why we can't stop attacking Hillary

[mudesi]

She is still attacking the Democratic nominee, and her supporters are still posting in GDP doing the same.

Witness the latest ridiculous fake outrage of the day in Pastorgate, part 2.

Hillary flat out fabricates a story about her trip to Bosnia, and they defend her. Obama tells a completely true story about his grandfather with the exception of a mistake in the name of a place, and they attack him.

Hillary invokes the possible assassination of Barack Obama, and they defend her. Obama makes a completely accurate statement about the bitter middle class, and they attack him.

Hillary all but endorses John McCain by saying he's more experienced than Obama, and they defend her. Obama makes an accurate statement about Reagan, who is dead and not running for president, and they attack him.

Hillary attacks the liberal base.

Hillary lies about the popular vote. (There is no popular vote).

Hillary takes money from a child and brags about it.

Hillary race baits and blames sexism for her losses.

Hillary plays the fear card with the 3 AM ad.

Hillary refuses to apologize for her Iraq vote.


And they defend and defend and defend. While the Democratic nominee, Barack Obama, is attacked over the most trivial of things. And we're supposed to be the ones to play nice? We're supposed to be the ones to call for unity? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Until DU calls it, we're stuck with these Hillary supporters and their unceasing undermining of the Democratic nominee.

It's up to Hillary supporters to get behind the Democratic nominee, just like we Kucinich supporters did, just like Edwards supporters did, just like Biden supporters did, just like Dodd supporters did, just like Gravel supporters did, just like Richardson supporters did. Don't expect the rest of us to beg, because the truth is, we don't really need you. Obama has more than enough support to win the general election without the remaining delusional Hillary supporters, but it doesn't help that he has to contend with Hillary Clinton's idiotic attacks for another 3 months as well as John McCain's. She is the one responsible for dividing the Democratic party, and as long as she is undermining Obama's chances in November, we have no choice but to hit her back. As the Hillary supporters are fond of saying, it's "just politics". Right?

[KittyWampus]

1. Actually, you're stupidly giving her the attention she desperately craves & can't afford to pay for.

You are doing her a favor over-reacting every single times she says or does something annoying or extreme.

YOU are part of the problem. YOU are part of the dysfunctional dynamic here.

[Swamp Rat]

3. Obama has what Hillary craves.

:D

[John Q. Citizen]

9. My non-voting anarcho Viet vet poet buddy calls him Ballaack Hussain Osama!

He's even thinking of voting for him, even though he never votes as a matter of conscience. He told me last week, "If I thought it would help, I'd vote for him." (He lives in Idaho, so it probably wouldn't)

If you make a "Ballack Hussain Osama" graphic I'd e-mail it to my buddy. I bet he'd like it.

[Swamp Rat]

55. Here ya go:

:D

[rucky]

46. Viva Camacho!

[HooptieWagon]

52. Better caption that pic, before hillbots think it's Rev Wright...

[mudesi]

6. You make the mistake of thinking it doesn't hurt

Her attacks are not harmless. Just because he has won the nomination doesn't change that fact. I know you think the best strategy right now would be to ignore her, but that's what John Kerry did in 2004 when the Republicans swift boated him. Her ads and her statements are just as harmful to Obama's chances in November as McCain's. Obama cannot afford to ignore her and neither can we.

[murielm99]

11. We do not yet have a nominee. n/t

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSparkle]

8. Yep, no "hanging back while the Swift Boaters attack" this time ...

She's trying to de-legitimize him, and a "Rapid Response" posture is
called for. Every attack must be answered, every lie debunked. I agree
with Samantha Power: She's a monster that will continue to grow unless
checked.

[TexasObserver]

23. Agreed. She is a monster.

[ProSense]

4. Give her the spotlight

She's looking more and more delusional and desperate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. I've no interest attacking Clinton or her supporters.

They're irrelevant. Old news.

It's like attacking Creationists. Or astrologers. Or brain trauma victims.

There's no sport in it.

But I run into a Creationist on a school board, the gloves come off, and the same goes for Clinton supporters and message boards.

[BlooInBloo]

43. Yup.

(tho I doubt if I'd attack a brain trauma victim on a school board. :P)

[apocalypsehow]

7. Exactly right - the HRC boosters launch the most vicious, slanderous attacks on Obama, but moan,

whine & snivel like scalded cats when they get some of the same treatment.

But the ones that really turn my stomach are the "I'm an Obama supporter, BUT..." types around here. There's one with a big thread up in GD: P right now, moaning about how we all have to be nice to the HRC boosters even if they're kicking us in the teeth. These types spend 99% of their posting energy lecturing other Obama supporters like a Sunday School matron about how we "make Obama supporters look bad" when we defend our nominee, and refute the lies of the HRC boosters.

:eyes:

[ampad]

14. Those are the ones that get me as well

I'm not the type to kiss ass.

[scarletwoman]

31. Please see my other post below. I make you the same offer. (nt)

(edited for missing word in subject line)

[scarletwoman]

30. Just in case you may have been referring to me, I wanted to let you know that I am perfectly willing

to defend my argument if you would like to engage in a debate. I'm sorry that my differing viewpoint is annoying to you, I came to it after careful consideration and observation.

If you have a counter to my arguments, I would be happy to hear it. I promise you, it won't turn MY stomach, I'm made of sterner stuff.

Peace,
sw

[apocalypsehow]

32. No, I wasn't referring to you, actually. I haven't seen any thread you've posted in the manner

described in my reply above. Truth be told, I'm not even aware of having encountered any of your posts before (though I well could've and just forgot). So, to answer the question again, my post was not referring to you.

You said: "Peace,"

Thank you, and likewise to you.

[scarletwoman]

34. I saw just one thread earlier today on this theme, but I had a rather large one yesterday, which

is why I wondered if you referring to that. My apologies for my mistake.

Here it is, in case you're interested:
Obama people, will you please STOP pecking at the Hillary people!

Yes, Peace, it's what I'm doing my best to practice -- although I was a little snarky to you, wasn't I? Sorry.

:)
sw

[ampad]

41. Wow, who are you?

I mean really there are so many people on DU and I don't think I ever had an encounter with you before. Actually I was thinking of two people and none of then were you. Since it is considered rude to call folks out I didn't name any names. No need to come at me like that. If I wanted to debate you I would do so in one of your threads. I don't think I ever have so please save it for someone else.

[scarletwoman]

45. A crazy DU oldtimer. I got so much shit on the thread I posted yesterday that was about "being nice"

that I've obviously gotten defensive. I saw only one thread much earlier today that I would categorize as a "be nice" thread, and it had already sunk off the first page, so I wondered if it was my own "be nice" thread that you and the other poster were talking about.

I offer you my apology. I was off-base. Still, at least we have now made acquaintance. Sorry for getting off on the wrong foot.

Peace,
sw

[The Doctor.]

57. "Who was that masked woman?!?"

SW's pretty cool... I been watchin'.

[Bake]

10. Patience, grasshopper, he's not the nominee just YET ...

It seems clear that he will be, but he hasn't closed the deal yet (I wonder why that is?). Let me know when he gets to the Magic Number.

That's part of what I find so irritating about Campobama ... you all want to call it a touchdown before your candidate crosses the goal line. Don't like it? Call every superdelegate and demand that they commit. Don't blame it on HRC, blame it on the chickenshit superdelegates who are still "undecided" (as if ANYBODY cold possibly be undecided at this point!).

Bake

[LSparkle]

15. They're not necessarily *undecided* -- they're UNDECLARED

And if they aren't moving to HRC now (in her "time of need"),
then something tells me they won't after June 3, either.

IT'S ALL OVER BUT THE BUZZER.

[Bake]

18. Then why the hell haven't they DECLARED????

What the fuck are they waiting for? Oh. They're waiting for their spines to grow a few more inches. That's right.

Bake

[LSparkle]

28. They're waiting for the PUBLIC to have its full say ...

before making their preferences known. Makes it look less like
the "elites" trumping the people.

[lastliberalintexas]

21. Hey, I am undecided

I really don't care which of them gets it, as I wouldn't be very excited either way. But I will vote for either, which is more than I can say for some of the more rabid posters from either camp.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Because the Clintons are so very deserving of the scorn they receive.

They did it the old fashioned way..they earned it.

[Crunchy Frog]

Word!

The Clinton supporters can't come in here spamming the place day after day with vicious attacks on Obama and his supporters, and not expect to get something back. It's going to be nasty in here until the admins decide to call it, and people who insist on being in GD/P will just have to live with it. I certainly don't feel any compulsion to be nice to people who are trashing my candidate and my party, though I will not go out of my way to be nasty.

[grantcart]

13. We are in agreement 99% of the time. But not this time

You are not attacking Hillary.

She actually doesn't read your posts.

You are actually attacking her supporters here.

Yes some of them are dead enders.

Some are not. Many have quietly or not so quietly given up their Hillary avitars and now you see Obama.

One of the most thoughtful posts today in defence of Obama is written by a person that until a few days ago supported Senator Clinton

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6184178#6185333

For folks like these your continuing now seems like piling on.

A truce would seem like a magnanamous gesture - the kind of thing wise victors do.



Now if you have a chance to have an actualy sitdown with Hillary or Bill go ahead and unload, but our audience here are people like ourselves that are trying to be loyal to the person they believed in. (The bitter dead enders will be swept out of here soon- just look at NJSecularist - gone).

Ok you are free to return to the pillaging.

[mudesi]

19. Take a look at the number of threads about Michael Pfleger

It's still going on. She is still employing her kitchen sink Tonya Harding tactics, and while it would be nice to think that these attacks don't hurt Obama anymore, it's just not true.

I just don't think we should step aside and allow these things to go uncontested.

[grantcart]

24. and alot of those threads are by Obama supporters go figure

the thing is the really bitter enders are on their way out - the moderators gave us an indication of that.

You aren't going to have an impact on them

but the folks that are changing and trying to change to Obama just feel shitty. Forget everyone else and just consider the good Clinton guy that is trying to do the right thing they are going to stay around.

Moreover these people don't really support what she is saying. They don't believe in obliterating Iran.

Now it just happens that their candidate is always putting them on the spot and they always are having to try and justify the idiocy.

Oh and yes that Priest is a first class idiot for getting himself in the news again and now we have to defend him and oh yeah thats just like the poor Clinton supporter who has to defend something stupid their candidate said.

I am not saying that we have complete disarmament. Keep it, save it and if things aren't perfect on Wednesday - we go apeshit.

Apeshit Wednesday.

Until then let's take a break - unless of course you actually get Hillary on the phone lol.

[scarletwoman]

36. Apeshit Wednesday -- has a lovely atavistic ring to it.

:D

Peace,
sw

[grantcart]

27. pls see post #22 which explains my point

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6185555&mesg_id=6186075

[musicblind]

22. Thank you grantcart. Those are kind words.

I have said that I now believe Obama will be our Dem nominee, and that as our Dem Nominee in GE I will support him fully. I will donate, promote and vote for him. I do believe he is a good person and has great ideas that I am able to get behind for the general election.

I still wish Clinton or Edwards had won, but it isn't because Obama is horrible. We just had our cup over flow this year with great candidates.

Despite this, I will ALWAYS be a Hillary supporter. I will continue to support her in whatever endeavour she chooses next. If she is the VP candidate, if she goes for NY Governor, if she decides she'd rather just write a book... I will support her in whatever she wants to do now that she is no longer campaigning in the primary. The reason is because I believe she is a nice person, who also has great ideas for our country. I don't buy into the demonizing of her, I think she is just awfully misunderstood on DU.

I really appreciate the Obama supporter who try and make it easier to be excited about supporting Obama on DU by not bashing another person who I feel was a very good candidate and was merely misunderstood this whole time.

I think many Hillary supporters feel this way. Most of us agree we can't afford to lose the GE. Many of us think Obama is a great guy and were only reluctant for fears he would have problems getting elected, or because we liked Hillary's health plan a little better, or because of experience. Though if we all work together he can make this a whole new game by winning states like NC in the fall. He did just accept an endorsement from Edwards who will hopefully be able to talk him into some of the ideas behind Edwards health plans. Plus, is experience really THAT important these days? I don't think so anymore. I read a very convincing post by an Obama supporter named Cali where she explained to me that Obama will make up for any perceived lack of experience by filling his cabinet members with experienced advisers. That the president is the VISIONARY. The way she explained it made real sense and changed my opinion. (instead of the way some people on here argue things by merely yelling names at me.)

So thank you for your kind words.

They are very appreciated! Lets all WIN this thing! That is what Hillary wants too... she wants us to WIN in Nov! It is what we all want! :)

[grantcart]

25. well put. onto the GE

[A-Schwarzenegger]

29. "She actually doesn't read your posts."

You dont know that. Maybe she comes over to DU to relax
& catch up on posts after a hard day on the trail. :*

[ClassWarrior]

16. Why so interested in keeping us divided?

NGU.

[guruoo]

17. What does 'hitting her back' really accomplish?

[conspirator]

26. So if a bully beats you, you let him beat you over and over? n/t

[scarletwoman]

38. Well, you *could* walk away and go hang out with a better class of people. (nt)

[guruoo]

39. Sure. If thery're trying to do it from a bed in intensive care.

[scarletwoman]

37. I assume that how it works is that the bio-electrical and electromagnetic waves coming off of our

outraged posts on DU are distilled and focused into a highly concentrated invisible ray that makes Hillary Clinton's head explode.

At least I think that's how it's supposed to work.

Peace,
sw

[guruoo]

40. ROTFL!!

[scarletwoman]

42. Thank you. I'll be here all week. (nt)

[BlooInBloo]

44. Glad to see we're finally communicating!

:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

47. I'm always communicating. Only sometimes I do it with invisible rays.

Doesn't everybody?

:D
Peace,
sw

[lastliberalintexas]

20. Because old habits die hard?

After all, some of the bashers sound as though they have been doing it for about 16 years now. :shrug:

[PoliticalAmazon]

33. I consider Hillary an enemy combatant now, intent on stealing the election. n/t

[IsItJustMe]

50. Or making sure McCain wins. Take your pick.

[scarletwoman]

35. I'm going to answer you with a post I wrote on another thread.

here

Of course you go take up arms and fight that kind of shit. I wasn't talking about legitimate duels.

I'm talking about when I've seen non-flamebait pro-Clinton posts get jumped on by a troop of snarking Obama people who never pause to consider that there might be an opening for dialogue. No, it's just automatic attack because that person has been identified as belonging to the "other" side.

Obviously there's a good number of Hillary people who will go down throwing everything they can at Obama until they are finally banned.

But there are other people here, some longtime DUers that I've known for years, that I see no point in continuing to antagonize, because they are people I would like to have on my side for the big battle ahead. Yet they can't post ANYTHING without someone deciding to take it the worst way possible -- the insults and mockery fly and any chance of dialogue is totally shut down in a hail of mutual contempt.

I'm sincerely asking, is this smart? Is just staying all the time on hair-trigger defensiveness and hostility really the best strategy for the long term?

We need our wits about us. We need to be sharpening our rational minds and our creativity and learn to dazzle our opponents with the sheer beauty and awesomeness of our mad skilz. I want us to quit engaging in the low-minded self-indulgence of kicking them when they're down.

I wish we would simply ignore anything that gets posted that is clearly delusional, and/or is posted just to push the buttons of the Obama people. If they don't get attention there's nothing in it for them. At the same time I wish we start behaving like gracious and honorable victors, we should not seek to humiliate or heap contempt, or demand that they submit.

I wish we would stop coming out of a place of fear and anger, and instead come out of a place of joy and confidence. There are creative ways to resolve conflict and restore broken bonds, why don't we work from that level instead of from the level of battle-axes and claymores? Do we really want to condemn ourselves to tribalism and dualism forever?

We have important work ahead of us, work that is going to require all the nimbleness and alertness and creativity we can muster. Here, we have a perfect opportunity to practice our ability to make Obama's case to a skeptical audience. If we're not willing to learn how to do that starting now and starting here, what does that say about our confidence and spirit?

Peace,
sw

[MethuenProgressive]

48. Thank you for posting Karl Axelrod's HillHate talking points.

"Hillary takes money from a child and brags about it."
:eyes:

[K Gardner]

51. Thank you for time and time again proving the OPs point.

[MethuenProgressive]

54. Congratulations!

:yourock:

[IsItJustMe]

49. At this point I am seriously considering if Hillary is a McCain plant. Would not surprise me.

[2rth2pwr]

53. True story about his Grandfather? I thought it was his Uncle, err.. Great Uncle, right?

[The Doctor.]

59. Wow... there you go quibbling over honest mistakes... just like the OP said.

Or were you just trying to be funny?

[rhett o rick]

56. When sane people were shouting no, no, Sen Clinton gave Bush the go ahead to invade Iraq.

Well over a million dead and Sen Clinton has no regrets.

[The Doctor.]

58. You mean "counter-attacking". n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. You crack me up. You distort and twist and re-define Clinton's actions

to make sure they get the worst possible definition. You forgive, and minimize, and ignore everything Obama does (and does not do) and re-define to give him the best possible definitions.

This post is full of crap.

[PretzelWarrior]

61. you are right. she needs attacked at every angle. I don't even care if she cries

she has shown herself to be full of ambition and naked aggression.

[JoFerret]

62. It's your actual permanent lying truth twisting campaign.

DU “... has become the home of the permanent campaign,” he writes, “a game of endless politicking based on the manipulation of shades of truth, partial truths, twisting of the truth, and spin. Governing has become an appendage of politics rather than the other way around, with the electoral victory and the control of power as the sole measures of success.”

(Actually that is from Bob Herbert's column on Scott McClellan in today's NYTimes.)