***OFFICIAL DNC RULES COMMITTEE THREAD 10*****

[Tatiana]

Thread 9 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6194613

Thread 8 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6194092

Thread 7 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6194089

Thread 6 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6193789

Thread 5 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6193517

Thread 4 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6193317&mesg_id=6193317

Thread 3 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6193023

Thread 2 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6192746&mesg_id=6192746

Thread 1 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6192505

Links:

URLS:
http://cnn.com/live
http://c-span.org

Potential Options:

1) Do not seat Florida or Michigan. Current Official DNC rules
2) Seat FL 1/2 vote, MI 69-59 split and supers full vote.
3) Seat FL/MI all half votes, pledged and supers
4) FL/MI, pledged half vote, supers full vote
5) Seat FL & MI based on the elections that have taken place. This scenario is in the left sidebar.

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/fl-mi-by-numbers_21.html

THIS MAN IS HERCULES!

[Hope And Change]

1. Tatiana for President!

[Tatiana]

92. Unity

:hi:

[Hope And Change]

2. Kick!

[Moochy]

3. Elaine Karmack

"my problem is a willy nilly arbitrary assignment of delegates when you have actually had a vote"

"this way lies chaos" yeah now you care..

:puke:

at least one line was right:

"We are really in trouble" projection lol.

[Tatiana]

6. Well at least she attempted to use reason instead of some ridiculous emotional appeal. n/t

[goclark]

4. He is my new hero!

Hercules Wexler!

[frickaline]

5. could you please make this one 11?

10 was already up here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6195129

[Gore1FL]

9. We need to assign who starts threads

this happened with 7 and 8 too.

[frickaline]

12. we did, Willo posted that he/she would start next.

[Tatiana]

15. Sorry I missed that. I accidentally started another thread 9 and edited to make it 10. n/t

[Hugin]

69. No prob.

:hi:

[Tatiana]

77. Unity is the word for the day

:hi:

:hug:

[Hugin]

114. We've got some clocks to clean...

Together. :)

:hug:

[gateley]

7. How come we haven't been tossing out Wexler's name for VP?

He and Obama would make a GREAT team!

[my3boyz]

22. Never heard of him before this. What type of experience does he have? nt

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

8. K&R Thread 10.

[Moochy]

10. Don Fowler feels like he is alice in wonderland

Poor little guy!

[CreekDog]

98. that's because this season has made Obama larger and the Clintons quite smaller

:think:

[Moochy]

112. Nice

I was struggling to come up with some "down the rabbit hole" reference. :evilgrin:

[Tatiana]

11. THREAD 11 WILL BE HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6195129

[BlooInBloo]

13. C'mon guys - get it together!

:P

[Tatiana]

19. I know right. You'd think I was from Florida.

JUST KIDDING!

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

34. lolz!

[Hugin]

52. Nice thread, Tatiana!

Great summary.

:patriot:

[frickaline]

21. we need a thread to organize our thread making!

:rofl:

[Hugin]

55. I've got two left.

:)

[Willo]

70. Sorry Prag, I didn't notice your response about having a queue.

I agree Frick.

I was thinking the same thing...An official posting sign-up thread

[Hugin]

85. No problemo.

I'm glad to see everyone so interested. :)

But, I agree on holding a new thread until about 80 - 100 posts. It's nice to increment then due to
the fact there are many dial-up DUers and it's hard to keep up if the threads get much longer than
that.

Have fun!

[thewiseguy]

14. Nelson: He wants superdelegates to have the full vote while pledged delegates get half!

He says elected people must have a bigger say than pledged delegates.

[ebdarcy]

20. Have to keep the peasants in their place.

[Connie_Corleone]

16. I have a different position regarding Michigan.

I say don't seat any of the delegates. The primary was moved up against the rules. The situation is different from Florida.

If the Hillary supporters don't want the uncommitted votes counted for Obama, then none of the delegates should be seated.

[mystieus]

17. Shall Gate.

[dana_b]

18. Mark Brewer

not relying on rules but I think he's trying. There should be some resolution with Obama getting some delegates.

[Gore1FL]

31. his proposal is actually better than

50% votes per delegate, and giving Obama uncommitted totals.

Clinton actually picks up a delegate. That might be the best she can hope for, and the Obama campaign already supported that compromise.

[dana_b]

35. I agree. It's fair.

[Tatiana]

44. Yep. n/t

[progetto]

56. the 69/59 split proposal seems reasonable to me

It's that or not seat the delegation at all.
Counting the votes at full or even at half would be unfair.

[bicentennial_baby]

23. Ickes...

:puke:

[BlooInBloo]

24. Ickes is back - guess he sees no signs of Wexler.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

32. second time you made me laugh on this thread.

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

40. Obama supporters should all put on Wexler masks and sneak up on Ickes... And yell "BOO!!!!"

Give him nightmares for life!

:rofl:


EDIT: Yes, I shamelessly went for the hat-trick.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

25. Ickes does not seem to appreciate the Unity idea.

[janx]

26. Tina and Ickles are joined at the hip. n/t

[dana_b]

27. Ickes is so disingenuous.

completely voluntary.... good for Brewer

[Missouri Girl]

38. I missed it....

What did Brewer say in response to Ickes?

[dana_b]

60. he said that he was there to represent the voters

not the candidates, which Ickes was talking about. The whole "they took their names off of the ballot voluntarily" thing.

[Tatiana]

28. "My job and my concern is about the Democratic voters in MI having their will expressed!"

Or Ickes gets owned again...

[chascarrillo]

29. "Some have said..."

Barf.

[Patsy Stone]

30. Harold Ickes is icky.

He thinks he's being so cute... :puke:

[Kierkegaard]

36. He's a smug little bastard, despite losing sizable chunks of ass today.

[Patsy Stone]

46. Yes.

Wexler chewed on it well.

I'm hoping someone brings up the MI Supreme Court decision as well as the pledge which said they would not "particpate". If a name on a ballot is not counted as participation, I don't know what would be.

[AZBlue]

33. I would like to see the audience silenced.

The clapping and cheering - on both sides- is unnecessary. I don't know that it's going to change anything - everyone seems to have their mind made up already.

[thewiseguy]

39. Just 5 mins ago a member on the committee was clapping as well

Very unprofessional.

[Moochy]

49. Was Tina Flourey and Ickes banging pots and pans?

Such transparent hacks.

[Upton]

43. It's also extending the length of time this is going to take

[AZBlue]

65. Exactly.

I feel everyone has their own opinion already, just announce it!

[Gore1FL]

47. sorry responded to wrong post n/t

[faithfulcitizen]

97. agreed, it's not dignified. (but I must admit, it makes great tv)

[Tatiana]

37. Tom Hynes makes a good point about having the name of a well-known candidate and "uncommitted" on a

ballot really doesn't give you a good idea of what candidates the voters were for; not a fair election.

[KittyWampus]

48. And I think questioners noting obliquely, DNC rules don't provide for handing over Uncommitted

I think the rules MAY provide for split of 50/50 between Clinton (name on) and remaining candidates (no name on)

[Tatiana]

62. Good point. n/t

[KittyWampus]

41. DNC Rules many not provide for handing Obama Uncommitted votes. It might be 50/50 split

between the candidate whose name appeared and those whose name did NOT appear.

[Ichingcarpenter]

42. Thomas Hynes up going over the data saying it was a Soviet style election

suggests a fourth catagory.... voters who didn't vote because they were
told it wouldn't count.

[dana_b]

51. has to be considerd.

I think that MI will be a much tougher call than Fl.

[KittyWampus]

53. Again, DNC must go by established rules. There might not be provision to award

Uncommitted to anyone.

[Coexist]

45. Wexler on MSNBC right now being interviewed.

[Gore1FL]

50. ****Evidently Bill Clinton has said****

the Hillary Clinton campaign will abide by the decisions made today.

Just saw it on MSNBC.

[Patsy Stone]

58. That's big of them.

:eyes:

[goclark]

64. Hillary needs to say it

They lie so many times however, their words mean nothing.

[crankychatter]

66. what does he know? that's alarming actually.... Imagine Clinton getting her way 100%

it tilting the "popular vote" meme in her favor...

and Obama either taking it... OR, taking it to Convention with an appeal... he'll win the appeal... but it'll give the Clintonistas a new rallying cry

fuck this, ya know?

[Tatiana]

80. I'll believe it when I see it. They've lied too much for me to believe anything they say anymore nt

[CreekDog]

110. because when FL and MI came up with their own proposals

it would take Clinton overruling those state parties to undo them, which would make it hard for Hillary to stake her claim against those states in actually counting them.

further she couldn't snag enough of their delegates under that scenario.

i think it is over, not that she will quit, but that it is over anyway.

[thewiseguy]

54. When an Obama superdelegate speaks their wisdom shows

[Tatiana]

57. Here comes LEVIN. I hope he's reasonable. n/t

[thewiseguy]

59. He is a Hillary supporters. Something to keep in mind.

[Mist]

67. Too bad. Generally I admire Levin. nt

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

75. Maybe true, but I still love him anyway.

[progetto]

84. He supports the 69/59 split as well n/t

[Coexist]

61. "We've used exit polls to establish affirmative action"

[Ichingcarpenter]

63. Carl Levin up now says uncommitted. I thought he was a Clinton supporter

I wonder which way he will go?

[Gore1FL]

68. I think he supports Clinton

but has not officially taken a position

[Mist]

74. self-delete

[dana_b]

86. ??

Obama avatar but it's good that he supports Clinton. okay...

[Mist]

89. I was responding to another post, I thought! nt

[dana_b]

95. ah, gotcha. sorry.

:)

[Ichingcarpenter]

79. He is saying they should support the allocation that was preposed in the

beginning of the presentation

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. He is an old hands at politics

you know where he will go...

[Tatiana]

72. Levin: "The MI Dem. Party has achieved unity. We ask that you preserve it."

Wants full seating of MI's delegates with full voting rights.

I kind of understand MI's point more than FL, but MI broke the rules too.

I will give them credit for at least petitioning to go in the early window. At least they did try. FL didn't even do that much.

[Patsy Stone]

73. As a Floridian

I'm almost jealous that Michigan's issues are more fucked up than ours. There isn't even have a rule to go by in their situation.

[LSparkle]

76. Both Carl and Sander Levin have been totally unreasonable ...

in their pushing for Michigan to be included among
the early primaries. They seem to have ONLY Michigan's
interests at heart, not the country or their party ...

[genna]

115. Disagree. I think Iowa and NH need to rotate...their populations don't necessarily

I'm an Obama Supporter.

look like America's ethnic/racial or cultural diversity.

They can alternate who is first but other states need to get in. If Carl Levin presses the issue maybe one day MI will be first at the line up.

How many states have not mattered until this year?

It is the squeaky wheel that gets oiled, not the patient person who sits in the back.

I enjoy Carl Levin's point and perspective.

[Gore1FL]

78. My take thus far

MI and FL compromises are already established in a reasonably unified form.

I think this ultimately means the committe will follow suit.

Net pickup of delegates for Clinton is going to be about 25-50.

Feel free to bookmark this post to congratulate or chastise me later.

[dana_b]

81. I think you're right.

[goclark]

88. How does it look for Obama? Cube rat here

[dana_b]

104. not exactly sure but maybe he'll get 35-40% of the delegates?

ask the guy above me. lol it all depends on what they accept.

[Gore1FL]

113. It looks lie the compromises are in place

it looks like Clinton gets more than her fair share in both states, but not nearly enough to make an impact.

That of course assumes the committee accepts both plans

[thewiseguy]

82. Carl says 69-59 for Michigan

That would be a net delegate gain of 29 for Hillary in FL and Michigan.

[Tatiana]

83. Levin sounds reasonable and rational. I'm glad he's stepped back.

Is he really "uncommitted" now?

[thewiseguy]

87. The Michigan democratic party had a proposal for 69-59

Hillary's camp was against it. 69-59 does not do anything for Hillary.

[dana_b]

90. except "no state should have the right to go first every election"

so let's just break the rules and do what we want. wtf?

[BlooInBloo]

91. He's covering his ass on breaking the rules, but he's granted room on the allocation issue....

and that's good enough.

Basically, he's conceding the overall result, I think.

[Tatiana]

96. He basically said allocate the delegates how you want (which is surprising).

He seems to be making his original point that Iowa and New Hampshire being first isn't fair.

I agree with you: he's conceding.

[BlooInBloo]

105. Yup - and Levin is by bar the biggest MI fish in Clinton's barrel, isn't he?

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

93. Candor. He is laying it all out, why they did this.

[Tatiana]

102. I appreciate him explaining the reasoning behind their decision. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

94. I think he is trying to be rational and fair so far

Maybe not?

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

100. Is Michigan going to War against New Hampshire?! He is Angry.

[Ichingcarpenter]

108. Where is he going with this?...... Is this just a complaint or a strategy

I don't get it.

[dana_b]

99. it sounds like he just wants the state to be seated and counted.

fair enough.

[IndyOp]

106. Interesting background on New Hampshire refusing to go along with party's

decision to put a couple of caucuses between Iowa and New Hampshire.

I hope we get to hear from Howard and/or the Rules Committee on their perspective of these events.

:(

[frickaline]

101. I think we've mostly moved to the next thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6195129

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

103. Did ya'll notice how Levin inserted the 2004 encounter with McAuliffe?

He sneaked that in there...

[Tatiana]

107. THREAD 11 HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6195129

[berni_mccoy]

109. Levin is whining about not getting a waiver. It's the RCB's discretion. They broke the rules.

Whining about NH.

[Roxy66]

111. Wexler for V.P.? Is he viable?

[FatDave]

116. Regardless of everything else, I just want to say this:

The Rules and Bylaws Committee has fucking cool microphones.

[frickaline]

117. FYI we are on thread #13 located here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6196558