Dean Won Five Back-to-Back Elections? False!

[tsipple]

In fact, Howard Dean has won ten back-to-back elections. Here's his incredible record of electoral success:

1982: Won a seat in the Vermont House of Representatives.
1984: Re-elected to the Vermont House of Representatives.
1986: Won election as Lt. Governor.
1988: Re-elected Lt. Governor.
1990: Re-elected Lt. Governor.
1991: Became Governor after the death of Republican Governor Snelling. Left his family medical practice to assume full-time political responsibilities.
1992: Elected Governor in his own right.
1994: Re-elected Governor.
1996: Re-elected Governor.
1998: Re-elected Governor.
2000: Re-elected Governor.
2002: Did not seek another term. Started running for President.

Note that Dean won three different offices in Vermont, including the office of Lt. Governor during the time of a Republican governor. (Vermont voters decide each office separately.) In each office he stood for and won re-election, so voters assessed his job performance. Most elections were statewide. The elections spanned the height of the Reagan Era to the Bush 2000 debacle.

Comparisons

John Kerry comes the closest to having this sort of electoral record, since he served as Lt. Governor briefly in Massachusetts. Kerry, however, has stood for election only four times to the Senate: 1984, 1990, 1996, and 2002. His last election he ran virtually unopposed, while Dean fought and won a tough re-election campaign.

Dick Gephardt has won lots of his own elections, but in a safe district and not statewide.

Joe Lieberman won as Connecticut's Attorney General then his 1988, 1994, and 2000 senatorial elections. His 2000 re-election was a shoo-in (as Gore's running mate at the time).

Carol Moseley-Braun won countywide, and she also won one statewide election but lost her re-election attempt.

John Edwards won a single, well-fought senatorial campaign in 1998. He is not running for re-election.

Al Sharpton has not won an election. Neither has Wesley Clark.

Dennis Kucinich was elected Mayor of Cleveland and elected to the U.S. House of Representatives from Cleveland.

Bill Clinton won statewide elections as both Arkansas's Attorney General and Governor. However, even he lost an election early in his political career. He was also elected and re-elected President of the United States.

[beaconess]

1. So much for that "political outsider" mantle, eh?

[jcgadfly]

2. I have a hard time comparing Vermont politics

to the inside the Beltway garbage that Dean is referring to when he claims to be an outsider.

[beaconess]

30. I'm curious

A couple of weeks ago, Joe Trippi skirted around a question by Stephanopolous and I have yet to hear a clear answer. Maybe you can provide one.

Just who are the "Washington insiders" that Dean is railing against? Among the candidates, only Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman can arguably be called "insiders" - Edwards, Moseley Braun, Kucinich, Sharpton and Clark are certainly not insiders (unless one becomes an insider as soon as they get to Washington, which would, of course, mean that Dean would be destined for the same fate as soon as he arrived).

Who are the other ones? And, if Dean were to become president, how would he manage to overcome them and do things the way HE would want to do?

[janx]

3. The "outsider" term refers to the fact that he's not a

D.C. insider politician.

[dave29]

4. no, just a Washington outsider

with his own brand of politics - which seems to work well enough ;)

[tsipple]

5. Yeah, Funny How That Works

Washington outsider, yes. Although Dean does have some Washington experience, as head of the Democratic Governors Association. (The DGA is responsible for working with Democratic Congressmen and Senators to make sure that the federal government does not pass laws that negatively impact states, such as unfunded mandates. Dean worked during the Clinton Era in that capacity, when there were significant strides made in helping states.)

Note also that Dean stood for (and won) elections every two years starting in the early 1980s. (The race for President of the United States would be his first that does not fit into that two year cycle. He was not a candidate for election in 2002.) What's particularly interesting about two year cycles is that you can never coast. Voters have an opportunity to fire you promptly and repeatedly. That might explain what many describe as his tireless enthusiasm for campaigning and governing.

[RetroLounge]

7. Really?

Is Vermont part of D.C.?

Well?

[KaraokeKarlton]

6. Dean has NEVER lost an election in his political career

He won the very first race he entered and has won every single one since as well.

I happen to think this shows that he is the MOST electable of all the candidates because he's won every race he's ever been in against a Republican AND usually a somewhat popular 3rd party candidate was usually in the mix.

[tsipple]

9. Yes, Excellent Point

Dean has won both two-way and legitimate three-way elections, so he has experience with both. His 2000 re-election, for example, featured a credible third-party candidate who received an extremely large fraction of the vote. (Dean still managed to win an outright majority, though.)

Both of Bill Clinton's presidential elections involved the third-party campaign of Ross Perot, and Gore's effort was obviously influenced by Ralph Nader. So dealing with third-party candidacies effectively is an important skill in a Democratic nominee.

[Padraig18]

10. But, but, but...

... he RUINED VT, didn't he? Isn't he unelectable? Dean can't win because (insert appropriate meme here)...

:evilgrin:

[KaraokeKarlton]

12. He made Vermont a much better state to live in

and he protected more land from development than ALL other Vermont governors COMBINED.

[Padraig18]

13. Not fair bringing FACTS into the argument, KK!

:P

[KaraokeKarlton]

23. Yeah, I know...those pesky facts sure do rain on the parade of

the Dean opposers here. Funny thing is, that when Dean wins and takes office, they'll all be singing his praises and loving his leadership. I can't wait to say "I told you so!". :D

[DancingBear]

32. Cue The Everly Brothers again

"All I have to do is dr-e-e-e-aam, dream, dream, dream..."

[slinkerwink]

29. oh wait, he left Vermont with a surplus when he left VT!

oh, the agony! ;-)

[no name no slogan]

8. Impressive record, IMHO.

Dean can win elections, no doubt about it. But how many incumbents has he beat? He never beat an incumbent governor.

(In the interest of full disclosure, Kucinich has lost a few elections in his past-- most notably, re-election for Mayor of Cleveland. Of course, if he had sold Muny Light to CEI he probably would have won, and would be in a much different place than he is today.)

[tsipple]

17. Beating an Incumbent

Dean did not beat Snelling at the ballot box. Snelling died in August, 1991, which elevated Dean to the Governor's office.

Dean did not beat an incumbent Lt. Governor when he ran for that office for the first time. The incumbent, Peter Smith, ran unsuccessfully for Governor that year.

I don't immediately have the information on his 1982 race to see whether he beat an incumbent that year.

Of course, it's arguable that George W. Bush deserves the title of incumbent. :7

Joe Lieberman beat an incumbent senator in 1988. (I voted for the incumbent, Lowell Weicker. :7) Edwards did so in 1998.

[no name no slogan]

27. I remember Weicker

he later became gov of CT as an independent, didn't he? He's one of those "old-fashioned" liberal Republicans, like Jeffords in VT and the late, great Harold Stassen of my home state, MN.

And Shrub got lucky re: Ann Richards in Texas, and just plain stole 2000.

But you knew that already! :evilgrin:

[tsipple]

31. Yup

Lowell Weicker -- who has endorsed Dean, by the way -- left the Republican Party to become an independent. He was a liberal Republican -- a very rare animal. After his loss in 1988, he ran for and won a single term as Connecticut's Governor. He promptly revamped Connecticut's regressive tax system, lowering the sales tax and instituting Connecticut's first income tax. The Fairfield County folks, who were evading taxes in New York, howled.

Republican John Rowland then beat Weicker, and we all know where that has lead. (Rowland is under criminal investigation for accepting bribes from state contractors, and all the state's major newspapers have called for his resignation.)

[beaconess]

11. If you're going to make comparisons, please be accurate

For example, you suggest that Dennis Kucinich's political career has consisted of being Mayor of Cleveland and a U.S. Congressman. But you left out a few things:

Kucinich
1969 Elected to Cleveland City Council
1971 Re-elected to Cleveland City Council
1973 Re-elected to Cleveland City Council
1977 Elected Mayor of Cleveland
1983 Elected to Cleveland City Council
1994 Elected State Senator
1996 Elected to U.S. Congress
1998 Re-elected to U.S. Congress
2000 Re-elected to U.S. Congress
2002 Re-elected to U.S. Congress

And, while these were not statewide offices, most of these positions involved representation of constituencies larger than the entire population of Vermont.

I'm not a Kucinich supporter, but it is disingenuous to mischaracterize any of the Democratic candidates in order to try to make your candidate look good.

[CWebster]

14. you forgot

student council.

[beaconess]

15. What a stupid response

[Hep]

16. President of his local singles group

n/t

[CWebster]

19. LOL

:D

[beaconess]

20. Another stupid response

It's funny how some of you Dean supporters set up false arguments - i.e., Howard Dean is the only candidate to win x number of elections - as supposed proof of his electoral invincability, and then when it is demonstrated that your premise is false, you resort to silly retorts such as these.

The bottom line is that the original post suggested that Kucinich had only won and held two offices in his career. I proved that to be wrong. Trying to belittle the offices he has held (I wonder how many of you could manage to run and win a city council or state senate seat) doesn't change any of that.

It's much easier to get your facts straight at the outset than trying to cover your ass after the fact with petty slaps at the other candidates' records.

[Hep]

22. It's called a sense of humor

I think you left yours in your other pants. Lighten up!

[beaconess]

25. I'll remember that the next time one of you gets your shorts in a bunch

over the slightest dig at Dean.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

59. You don't seem to have a problem

with the fact that the original post also omitted elections that Kucinich lost. If you want the original post modified to include the facts that YOU like, then it's only fair that it should also be modified to include the facts you don't like. We are talking about changing it in the name of accuracy, right?

Nobody was trying to belittle Kucinich. I'm sorry if a pro-Dean post didn't also go out of its way to promote Kucinich, but to view the nature of the post as somehow trying to belittle the guy is based upon a false premise.

[beaconess]

61. Of course the original post did not list Kucinich's losses

since it was about records of "electoral success." I merely pointed out that when one lists, chapter and verse, every election victory that Howard Dean had as proof of his greatness and, purports to contrast that with the election records of the other candidates, it is appropriate to accurately detail the others' election victories as well.

Moreover, I did not suggest that the original post belittled Kucinich - it simply omitted some important information (something that its author acknowledged). It was the silly responses, likening the positions he held to student council, etc. that attempted to diminish his successes.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

62. Here's your quote:

"The bottom line is that the original post suggested that Kucinich had only won and held two offices in his career. I proved that to be wrong. Trying to belittle the offices he has held (I wonder how many of you could manage to run and win a city council or state senate seat) doesn't change any of that."

Also, the original post was trying to demonstrate electability, not "greatness" as you have suggested.

You're welcome!

[beaconess]

63. Yes, that's my quote. Now look at who it was addressed to -

I addressed the post to someone who made a snide comment equating Dennis Kucinich's elected offices to being president of a local singles group.

In other words, as I noted previously, I did not intend to accuse the original poster of belittling Kucinich. In fact, I specifically clarified that in a subsequent post.

If you take the time to read all of the posts and note to whom they are addressed, perhaps you will avoid wasting time with off-base complaints that only highlight your failure to comprehend the obvious.

[burning bush]

18. Dean supporter for Kucinich!

DK rocks!

I started out being strangely itchy concerning Kucinich, but after time, I realized that his policies and supporters are close to my center than any other candidate, except for Dean.

I would love to see a Dean/Kucinich ticket, or at least see Dennis in a high post in a Dean administration.

I hope that doesn't seem to minimize Kucinich in anyone's mind. I just prefer Dean :)

[tsipple]

21. You Are Correct

I listed the highest offices attained by the other Democratic candidates. In retrospect I should have included Kucinich's single State Senator election, since I included Dean's House of Representatives wins. Sorry about that. Totally unintentional omission, and thank you for pointing it out.

But you have some omissions as well. What happened in the 1975 City Council race? What happened in Kucinich's second mayoral race? Were there any other elections that Kucinich ran? You have some gaps in your list, I'm afraid.

On edit: That's the first question in a job interview when you see timeline gaps in a resume. "What happened?"

[beaconess]

24. I simply listed the races that Kucinich had won and the office he has held

I also implied in another post that you had belittled Kucinich's record in response to my post. You did not do that - it was others who responded so childishly. I apologize for lumping you in with them.

[tsipple]

26. Actually, I Did More

I listed all the elections Dean has stood for in his entire political career, win or lose. It just so happens he won all of them.

It is fair to point out that Kucinich lost races, including his first mayoral re-election when the voters had their first chance to assess his performance in office. Actually, if anything, I was trying not to point that out in my cursory comparison with Kucinich. But since you brought it up, you forced my hand on that point. :7

[beaconess]

28. I guess I don't view electoral losses the way you do

I don't assume that the fact that someone loses an election makes them any less electable or worthy at a later time. Often people lose elections by standing up for what they believe in, even if it goes against what a majority of constituents want them to do.

I'm not denigrating Dean's electoral popularity, but the fact that someone wins elections does not, in and of itself, prove their worth. It is very easy for politicians to keep their constituents happy by doing what they want them to do - even when it's not the right thing. The Patriot Act and Iraq resolutions are cases in point. Many of the Senators and Representatives who voted in favor of these bills did so because they represented constituencies that were staunchly in favor of them. They probably bolstered their chances for re-election, but you might not agree that they did the right thing.

So, while Dean's election record in Vermont is impressive, it doesn't do much to convince me that he should be the national standard bearer.

[OhioStateProgressive]

34. i agree, "win some lose some"(nt)

[tsipple]

36. More Benign (and Important) Reason

Winning election (and re-election) is not just about policy. In fact, it may not even be mostly about policy. It is also about effective communications, building consensus and coalitions, and even some salesmanship.

So I would argue that Dean's top ranking record of electoral success tends to suggest that he is an accomplished campaigner, with the ability to communicate effectively to voters. And that's a terribly important skill in winning elections, and it's one we need to take seriously.

With all due respect, what disappoints me about Dennis Kucinich is his difficulty getting stuff done. I love the fact that he's got a great healthcare plan. I hate the fact he hasn't gotten it done.

For example, Kucinich has been in Washington, D.C., serving in Congress for many years now, and the good people of Cleveland send him there. Yet I can only find a single piece of legislation he sponsored that has passed: a bill which provides access to a government-produced TV program on Ukrainian heritage to his local Ukrainian museum. Yes, I know, the Republicans control the U.S. House of Representatives right now. But there are plenty of Democrats that have gotten positive things done even despite these difficult working conditions.

So that's my problem with Kucinich's candidacy. I want a winner, and I want forward progress. Because we're talking about real people in many cases dying the longer this Administration goes on. I'm tired of complaining about all the rotten policies coming from Washington and then getting nowhere.

[beaconess]

43. So then,

that means that all of those "Washington insiders" Dean has been railing against should be commended for their success in "effective communications, building consensus and coalitions, and even some salesmanship" and given credit for their accomplishments as campaigners and ability to communicate effectively with voters.

After all, these people have been elected over and over and over again. So why does Dean diss them?

:-)

[tsipple]

44. Umm...

You know, with all due respect, it is possible to hold two non-contradictory thoughts in your head at the same time.

[beaconess]

46. How are these two thoughts "non-contradictory?"

On the one hand, you praise Howard Dean for winning election after election, stating that this demonstrates his skill at "effective communications, building consensus and coalitions, and even some salesmanship" while at the same time you seem to accept his attack on "Washington insiders" who are fixtures in Washington precisely because their constituents have voted them back in election after election.

How is it that the fact that Dean's constituents voted him back into office over and over a badge of honor while the fact that the constituents of Senators and Congresspersons vote them back into office over and over proof of their unfitness?

[tsipple]

47. At Least Two (Easy) Reasons

First of all, almost all the Representatives in Congress do not run statewide. They run from districts that are drawn by... well, by their friends. Districts that are designed to achieve desired results.

That includes Dennis Kucinich. If Jesus Christ ran as a Republican -- which He'd never do, but play along -- he'd lose Dennis's district.

Second, the influence of money in politics that has corrupted Washington. That's something that must be changed.

These facts are certainly not contradictory to anything I've said.

[beaconess]

48. All Senators run statewide and

virtually every Congressional representative run from districts that are larger than the entire state of Vermont.

Sorry - you are being completely contradictory. If Howard Dean's electoral success is a commendable thing, the electoral success of other elected officials is also commendable, regardless of how you parse it.

[OhioStateProgressive]

33. well

while he was in his second term in City Council he ran for US Congress and lost

he attempted the nomination for Democratic Candidate for Governor of Ohio and dropped out of the race a few weeks later

[Mairead]

49. Thanks for clarifying the record, Beaconess! Thou rockest!

I'd only add that DK was also elected City Clerk (equivalent to Secretary of State in Vermont) just before he was elected Mayor. It was as City Clerk that he rallied the people to reject the sacrifice of Muny Light.

And, of course, the main reason he was dumped as mayor and replaced by Voinovich was his adamant refusal to sell out the people who elected him. Had he allowed the wealthy elites to get the monopoly they demanded, he, not Voinovich, would have got their blessing for re-election and then the governorship and the Senate. But no, the glupiec ('gwoo-PYETS' -- Polak for 'numbskull') had to go and keep his word to the people instead, saving them $300M so far and landing his sorry butt on the shelf for 15 years.

[Mairead]

50. And I'll also point out (for some reason I can't edit my earlier post)

That in early November, in his speech in Oakland, he estimated that all told he's stood in about 30 elections and won 20 of them -- often where the punditocracy said he didn't have a hope in hell of winning.

[DancingBear]

35. Hey, c'mon guys - lighten up

We all know how hard it is to win elected office - in Vermont - as a Democrat.

When does the statue get unveiled?

You know, the guitar one... :)

[slinkerwink]

37. it's a lot harder than you'd think because there are hard progressives

there with a huge majority of independents and a minority of republicans. And the governorship of Vermont lasts for two years each term, so the governor is held accountable by a tight scrutiny by his constituents. If they don't like what he does in office within two years, they can vote him out.

The fact that Dean's been elected five times as governor shows that his constituents liked what he did and wanted him to continue governing in Vermont.

[tsipple]

38. DancingBear, Look at the Record

Dean won his Lt. Governor race the same year a Republican Governor won. How do you explain that?

Vermont's record in presidential elections is not the same as its state voting record. There is currently a Republican governor, and Dean replaced a Republican governor (Snelling). Dean has a proven, perfect record of beating Republicans statewide when many other Democrats in his state have not.

In contrast, Wesley Clark has never beaten a Republican at election because he's never been in an election. He has praised, raised money for, and voted for some Republicans, though. :7

[Mairead]

52. "How do you explain that?"

He looked and sounded like a Republican, of course.

[Mairead]

53. Tsipple, I think you need to check both your facts and your logic

Dean replaced a Republican governor because the guy DIED.

And there is currently a Republican governor because Dean had steadily lost all the electoral goodwill he started with. He didn't have anything left with which to help out a prospective Democratic successor (Actually, did he even try? Or would that have been the kiss of death?).

[KaraokeKarlton]

57. Speaking of checking facts...whew!

Mairead, you really shouldn't be saying this stuff you just did in your post because not a bit of it is accurate. Jim Douglas won because he ran a better campaign than Doug Racine. Racine didn't want Dean to help him because he didn't want to be accused of riding Dean's coattails. On top of that, Douglas was the State Treasurer under Dean. He's a Republican of the Jim Jeffords school, and a good guy. Vermonters don't typically vote by party, we vote by who we like best. Douglas is doing well so far and I intend to vote for him next time around. If Dean had run again, he would have won again. Any ballot Dean is on in Vermont...he will win, period.

[beaconess]

58. Dean progressively lost support in Vermont with each election

In 1992, in his first race for governor, Dean captured 75% of the vote. Every two years, his support eroded (with the exception of a slight uptick in 1996) until his last run, when he mustered only 50% of the vote:

1992 75%
1994 69%
1996 71%
1998 56%
2000 50%

[CWebster]

39. Vermont is traditionally

Republican ;-)

[KaraokeKarlton]

41. Actually, Vermont has historically leaned Republican

But Dean managed to help form a Democratic stronghold that had never previously been done. Check the history of Vermont politics. So, what elections has your candidate won again?

[beaconess]

45. The history of Vermont politics shows that, with the exception of Snelling

every Vermont governor since 1972 has been a Democrat.

So, Howard Dean's victories, while commendable, were nothing out of the ordinary. It certainly was not something that "had never previously been done."

[KaraokeKarlton]

55. There's more to Vermont politics than the governorship

Check out the history of the other state elected offices before and after Dean took office.

[DancingBear]

51. I know your avatar says Vermont

but what time last week did you move there? :)

Having lived in NH for many years I can always say that we all equated "Vermont" and "Republican" in the same sentence. The fact that Vermont trended Republican years and years ago has no bearing on its present perception, but you probably already knew that.

Nice try, though. :)

[KaraokeKarlton]

56. I've lived here for over a decade

Yeah, many folks across the river are under the same false impression that Vermont is some liberal bastion or one big commune. There is life beyond Burlington here, and we're really no different than those in your state. We love guns, snowmobiles and Nascar too. We don't mind paying taxes over here, though...and we'd never dream of pinching a few pennies at the expense of public kindergarden. :shrug:

[DancingBear]

60. Well, it is, ya know

Actually, VT was a haven for communes, back to the land folks, etc. (myself inclued) in the late 60's/early 70's, which is where the "rep" came from. Now, it is seen as such throughout America (Bernie et al). I make the same arguments for NH (i.e. it isn't all full of crazed Repugs and mountain people) but the perception that it is is fairly universal, so I deal with it.

I don't live in NH anymore (miss it, though), and I agree with the kindergarden thing, although "you guys" never missed a chance to buy cars and other big ticket items over here and "pinch a few pennies" by not paying sales tax! :)

[kurtyboy]

40. Vermont's population--608,000

About 10% less than an average congressional district. Diversity off the Vermont population: 96.7% white.

This is not the training-ground for Presidential politics, IMO. Out here in Washington, we have four or five counties with bigger populations, more farmland, more manufacturing, and far more diversity. But I would never suggest that the Snohomish County (pop 606,000) Executive would make a good president, even he/she did win five straight elections.

On the other hand, Dean is very definitely an outsider, even compared to Sharpton. I just don't think that's such a good thing....

[Scott Lee]

42. Point? or Poop?

[TexasSissy]

54. I'm voting for Clark, no matter what anyone says.

The reasons are too numerous to list. but the reasons to vote for anyone else are scant. So I don't care if Deanio is popular in Vermont...or not. He won't make a good President, so I am not voting for him.