I Believe It's Going to Be Vice President Hillary Clinton

[berni_mccoy]

I was one of the most fervent defenders of Obama against Clinton and I held nothing back in attacking Clinton during the primary, so this sounds strange for me to be writing this.

But, for the sake of a very strong ticket, and for the sake of an even tougher campaigner, debater and for the sake of Party Unity, I believe Senator Clinton is the best choice at this point.

I still have reservations, especially all the stuff Clinton did during the primary. However, I don't think any of that water under the bridge can be successfully be used against Obama/Clinton in the General Election. Furthermore, McCain's attacks seem downright lame to anything Clinton did to Obama in the primary. Clinton. Will. Destroy. McCain. (and anyone else who decides to team up with him)

She is tough, persistent and a great Democrat.

It will be quite a surprise for the Republicans to see her become the V.P. and I think they will truly be confounded by her as the choice.

37 million Democrats voted for Obama and Clinton in the primary. She will re-energize the Democratic ticket and lead us to one of the greatest landslides in the recent history of Presidential Elections.

I fully support whoever Obama chooses for VP. But I'm starting to see why Clinton would be the best pick.

On Edit: I would hope that if she is the pick, that Mark Penn is absolutely noway involved in the campaign. He's a complete failure and should be banished from Democratic campaigning.

Second Edit To Add: I could be completely wrong here. However, if it had been any other choice, I think we would already know (Obama would have announced). The fact that a) the deal's likely done and b) it hasn't been announced, has my spidey-sense going on high-alarm. I believe they are planning on surprising the GOP with this choice as much as possible, making them have to rethink their end-game strategy (not like they don't already have this as a contingency).

[Happyhippychick]

1. I agree. These past few days Barack has not shown himself to be enough of an attack dog.

Clinton would have been in McWhiney's face immediately and I think he needs her.

[Peacetrain]

38. This is one of my two problems with Hillary being picked as VP

Just exactly how you phrased it.. It would make Obama look weak.. and Clinton and McCain are pretty darned close, I am not so sure she is the one to be that "attack dog".

The other reason , is that they are just not the best pair. I do not think Obama would have been a good match for her if she had gotten the nod of the nomination.

I really think Hillary is headed for a cabinet position, to promote health care issues.

[dansolo]

50. I don't want her in the cabinet either

She is not qualified to tackle health issues. She completely screwed up the last time she was in charge of formulating a health care plan. I'd rather see Howard Dean in that role, since he has much more relevant experience, considering his time as governor of VT, as well as his time as a doctor.

[dansolo]

49. So why isn't she attacking McCain now?

She never attacked McCain during the primaries, even after he was the presumptive nominee. What is she waiting for? She could still attack McCain even if she isn't the VP candidate. Where is it written that the VP is the only person who can attack the other party's nominee? For all this talk about how much of a fighter she is, I've never seen her actually fight against the Republicans. Can anyone point out a single critical comment she has made against McCain, ever?

[babylonsister]

2. What about that ass in the room? nt

[berni_mccoy]

5. Are you talking about Bill? If so, I have no idea.

[babylonsister]

19. Hey!

You figured it out! :thumbsup: ;)

[berni_mccoy]

21. LOL

[Marrah_G]

3. I would be happy to see her get picked

I will still vote for Obama even if he chooses another Democrat, but I do think it would be a strong ticket.

[az chela]

4. Bill hates Obama so how is that gonna work???And if she gets it

wha twill they do with Bill???

[berni_mccoy]

6. I. don't. know.

[scheming daemons]

15. Which is why your OP is silly. These issues don't go away just because ...

...we've placated the radical PUMAs.


Quit giving in just to obtain some sort of false "peace".


We have an opportunity to do something special the next 8 years in Washington. That doesn't happen if the Clintons are involved.

[berni_mccoy]

20. I should have added, "I could be completely wrong" to my OP.

But my spidey-sense is going off like an alarm bell on this. I think the deal is already done.

If it had been any other candidate, I think Obama would have already publicized it. But he's keeping this in his pocket, right up to the convention to throw the Repubs off. I think it's going to completely mess up the GOP strategy.

[napoleon_in_rags]

42. Special like granting retroactive immunity to telcos?

That was pretty effing special. I'm glad Clinton's not vote to that wasn't around to taint Obama.

[ecstatic]

10. Hopefully she divorces his ass! haha nt

[emilyg]

31. Keep sending him on a goodwill tour around the world. Over and over.

[Lisa0825]

7. The list of library donors had better be provided....

I still have the feeling there's a lot of damage to be done by Bill's connections. I will NOT be happy if this comes to pass. I'll just have to hope that the Clintons allowed a FULL vetting rather than being stubborn as usual and holding back. If anything major they don't expect(and can plan for) comes out, we're fucked.

[berni_mccoy]

11. Good point. I have faith in the O Team to not make such a mistake here.

Obama was vetted during the primary far more than Clinton was. This could be a problem.

[RBInMaine]

8. She ads no red territory and too much baggage. Kaine or Bayh make sense.

[DarthDem]

14. No Red Territory?

I think she seals up Ohio. She and Bill are also pretty popular in Colorado.

[scheming daemons]

16. Colorado is going blue... and Ohio is purple....

[DarthDem]

17. Um

I guess my point was that if Obama wins Ohio and Colorado, this thing is over. Since she advances that, she only way she would be a bad choice is if she hurt somewhere. And I'm not sure where that would be. Not Michigan - - they love her.

[RBInMaine]

25. She doesn't necessarily seal up Ohio. Kaine or Bayh would also

help there, and also in their own states of VA and IN, either or both of which could also go blue this year. The popular OH Gov. is already helping Obama bigtime, and so will Hillary off the ticket. She's going to campaign for him, and she'd be great in the cabinet. Looking at a bigger picture, Kaine or Bayh helps more than Hillary in NC, MT, and other western and southern states. Hispanics do like Hillary. But Obama and the Clintons don't mesh well, and Hillary has TONS of baggage that the R's would seize upon major league. She'd energize the R's BIGTIME! Clinton is the past, and we need the future (which is why I like Kaine the most). Ain't gonna happen with Hillary. He needs a new-school moderate white male to expand our white male base (the R's clobber us there), help us with Indys, and push us further and deeper than Hillary can into red territory. A black man and woman on one ticket is too much ID "change" for the nation to handle at once. But I tell you, Hillary would be great as Sec. of State, or at Health and Human Services to head up healthcare reform. She'd also be a fine AG or maybe even the first woman Defense Sec. I'd love to see her in the cabinet, and NY would elect another D easily to fill her seat.

[DarthDem]

30. Good Comments

The thing I agree with you the most about is that the country may be wary of a black man and a woman on one ticket. Of course, anti-Clinton forces are always talking about how Hillary represents "the past" instead of change - - and those two memes are contradictory. (A lot of Hillarybashers like to have it both ways, though.) Still, I think you raise valid concerns there.

I have no worries whatsoever about "energizing" the Rethuglicans. The Goopers are ALWAYS energized, and always move in lockstep. They will be just as energized to stop a black man from beating them as they will be if Hillary is not a part of the ticket.

I disagree with you about Kaine helping anywhere but VA, and Bayh helping anywhere but OH and IN. They have no cross-appeal whatsoever, and are total unknowns. Richardson is a good choice to lock up CO, especially since CO may be the key to the entire election. And then there's a dark horse whom I really, really like - - Schweitzer.

If Clinton is not the choice, I also like your thoughts about other roles for her. I like Associate Justice of the Supreme Court. :-)

[MercutioATC]

9. If that happens, I'll do what I did in 2004.

I'll hold my nose and vote for the Democrat.



Happily, I don't think that Clinton will be tapped :)

[polmaven]

47. DAMN, Mercutio,

That damned bug of your gets me EVERY FREAKING TIME! :wave:

[MercutioATC]

57. Hell, it still gets ME some of the time.

:hi:

[scheming daemons]

12. She doesn't want it. And Bill (seemingly) is trying to kill it.

You need to accept reality.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

13. Hillary is on record saying that John McCain is qualified to be President and Obama is not.

She already gave McCain a gift by saying that in the first place. He'll get a bigger one if his veep can turn such a statement directly on Hillary in a debate.

[madfloridian]

22. Exactly....

Not a good choice to pick her now.

[high density]

18. Obama = Change. Clinton = 1990s were so fun, let's go back there

Plus Clinton didn't seem too keen on destroying McCain during the primaries, nor has she shown any effort since the concession speech.

[stray cat]

23. Not unless she leaves Bill I think Bill is a deal breaker

[Lilith Velkor]

52. Bull Shit

All the spin in the world hasn't erased the memory of a $200b surplus, $1 a gallon gas, and no dead troops.

Unity, baby. It's what's happenin'.

[CakeGrrl]

24. Not unless they can BOTH be vetted. Obama is not going to weaken his chances overlooking that.

The other day there was a story listing some of the vetting challenges that the Obama camp faced with some of the prospects. Those were mild compared to what they'll encounter with Bill.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Maybe.

[hughee99]

27. For many of the reasons you've cited

in think Hillary will NOT be the Veep nominee.

Yes, Hillary was much tougher on Obama than McCain has been so for. I'm sure republican strategists are salivating at the prospect of being able to run the "Obama's not ready, don't take our word for it, just ask his own VP" ads.

If Hillary will be the "fighter" for this campaign it will make Obama look weak, and like he's not in charge. When McCain attacks Obama, what's he going to do, say "Go ask Hillary for my response"? or even worse, maybe the press will just go straight to her instead of trying to get Obama's response first. Obama won't be able to play the "above the fray" either, anything Hillary says will be attributed to Obama and he'll either have to defend or denounce her, and neither is a good situation to be in. People will ask, "If Obama agrees with her, why the hell didn't he get out and say it himself, and if he doesn't, why the hell is she on the ticket?"

And once he gets in, you'll have a former president and his major primary opponent just down the hall who both know the white house game better than Obama, because they played it for 8 years, and are not always on the same page as Obama. As much as I'd like to talk party unity, if I were Obama, I wouldn't trust them.

Just my 2 cents, anyway.

[Spazito]

28. Very doubtful, imo...

She brings little to the ticket in real terms. She has high negatives with independents and they are crucial to a win for Obama. She has a 747 sized load of baggage the repubs have already prepared for just such an occasion and, finally, the Obama campaign have been AHEAD of the ball all the along the way and they know she can't bring to the ticket what is needed and would give the repubs a big, early Christmas present instead.

There is no need for Obama to have announced by now, quite the reverse, imo. The longer he takes to announce the better. There is no reason he can't wait until just before the convention or, indeed, at the convention. Were it to be done at the convention, the media would be there with bells on and Obama would control the news cycle for a longer period than were he to announce now.

[nsd]

29. I think this is unlikely.

Hillary would bring some extra female and Clinton voters with her, but she would also turn off some of the independent and cross-over voters Obama hopes to attract.

A Clinton pick would energize the right and give them an enthusiasm McCain can't muster on his own. I don't think they would be confounded about how to deal with her. They have 16 years experience in attacking Hillary Clinton and have been waiting for this opportunity for past 8 years.

The media focus would be on the psychodrama of the Barack-Hillary-Bill triangle. That might make for entertaining news coverage but it's not a good campaign theme.

Clinton on the ticket steps on the Obama change message. A good part of the rationale for his campaign was that he could change the way politics is played in Washington. It's hard to deliver that message with someone named Clinton standing next to you.

Obama is the presidential nominee. He wants (and deserves) to be the undisputed leader of the party. Clinton on the ticket would raise whispers of a "co-presidency" and she would probably get as much news coverage as him. I don't think Obama would want that, whether as a candidate or as president. (This might be the single biggest reason Obama won't pick Clinton.)

[barack the house]

32. She was said to be laughing and happy at their meeting back at the end of the primary.

[Egnever]

33. Sorry he is holding off till the convention to announce

Because he doesnt want the Hillary supporters that have gone wacko (not that all Hillary supporters have just a small minority) a chance to get all up in arms and create havoc at the convention.

He will not pick Hillary. Bill cant be vetted he stuck his hands into too many pockets.

[Beregond2]

34. I believe in fairies.

[JackORoses]

35. now you too? can we not keep this silliness to one thread?

[MasonJar]

36. If Hillary is the VP nominee, Bill will work hard for the ticket, so quit

worrying and fussing.

[biscotti]

37. That thought came to

me as well After i read her article today in the WSJ
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121798030763715107.html?mod=opinion_main_commentariestoday.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. Here's what pisses me off about you people with your "concerns"...

You have absolutely no faith in our nominee who has shown himself to be quite clever and smart. I'm so sick and tired of the fucking whining and bitching.

Have faith in our nominee. Please stop insulting his intelligence. He knows exactly what he's doing and I believe there's a strategy. Instead of bashing him about not being an attack dog, you should be demanding to know where the hell the Democrats are. John Kerry has been just about the only one out there on message.

When you see the Repukes out there, they can't stand John McCain but they defend him until they're blue in the face. They stay on message. They are unified. And unlike the pissy Democrats, they don't whine and bitch all the time.

So, what the hell are you guys going to do? Are you going to continue to bitch and pontificate about Obama's VP? Whine about what he does and does not do? Yell about inconsequential polls?

Or, are you going to get out there and work your ass off for our nominee? Write letters! Donate! Volunteer! Register voters.

Stop your bitching and get out and work!!

[David Zephyr]

40. Well, now it's not quite so lonely out here on this branch. But, seriously, it will be Hillary.

:hi:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Erin Elizabeth]

43. It was a bad fucking idea four months ago

and it's still a bad fucking idea now. It'll also be a bad fucking idea in another month.

It'll always be a bad fucking idea. God, I just saw that Pat Robertson guy practically rubbing one off on MSNBC earlier at the very THOUGHT of Hillary being VP. That should tell you something.


On edit, it's kinda like how I want McCain to pick Larry Craig. Or Fred Phelps. See what I mean? I'd freaking SQUEE with joy.

[Erin Elizabeth]

44. Oh and also?

I've never gotten the sense Obama even likes Clinton. I have no clue where anyone got the idea he'd pick her as his running mate. Not in a million, my friend. Not in a million.

[CakeGrrl]

46. Pictures are telling when there's no photo-op

http://www.scouttufankjian.com/main.php

"Early Days", photo #50 - and that's before the kitchen sink got thrown.

[quaker bill]

45. It can be nice to have beliefs

but generally, it is even better when they are more closely connected to reality.

Hillary may be a fine Democrat, but she will not be the VP pick. It is really not a very close call. VP's are not selected for the factors you cite. They are not selected to bring excitement and inspiration to a ticket, that is the candidate's job. VPs are picked to not only to stand in the background, but to be absolutely no threat of ever becoming the dominant story of the campaign, on any basis, either positive or negative.

They want someone who looks the part, speaks well, is squeaky clean, and allows the candidate to absolutely dominate the stage. Hillary, by her very nature, cannot do the latter. She was only ever on the list as a matter of protocol and due deferrence.

Hillary does not play second fiddle well at all, there is no reason she should, and more power to her for it. However, this is the reason she will not be VP.

[Erin Elizabeth]

48. THIS.

THIS is a fantastic outline of exactly why she won't be his VP pick. Actually this is only the biggest part of the why. There are probably a million other reasons, as well, but this one knocks her out completely.

[quaker bill]

54. Thanks

I am sure that there are numerous other minor issues, but those could be overlooked or glossed over, if the larger role would work. Her large stature, well deserved as it is having broken new ground for women, is the disqualifier.

[TexasObserver]

51. if she had any chance, she and Bill killed it this week

[Lilith Velkor]

53. *falls over*

This is very surprising coming from you.

Welcome aboard the Unity Love Boat. :toast:

[Eurobabe]

55. I believe they are waiting to surprise the GOPers

but it ain't gonna be Hillary.

My bet? Someone we don't even have on our radar. :hi:

[eshfemme]

56. This whole thing reminds of me a little book called, "If You Give A Mouse A Cookie..."

When you compare previous primary races where the losing candidate and their supporters were generally expected to adhere to a code of conduct, this makes me think that feminism really hasn't gone as far as it should have. As a woman, I don't expect to be babysat. I expect to be treated as the equal of a man. It's really not helpful when you see the scads of Hillary supporters expect to be treated differently from all other political campaigns just because Hillary's campaign was historic and she is a woman who had to face sexism.

That said, based only on what Obama has said in that he wants someone who shares his vision and would be his partner, I don't think it will be Hillary and I don't think that including Hillary on the ticket will broker any sort of "peace" anyway. Frankly, with less than a few months to go before Election Day, anything less than making Hillary the nominee will not do anything to rid them of the bitterness they have held onto till now. Any other losing candidate would have gracefully stepped down by now instead of pulling the passive-aggressive shit that has been pulled.

Also, why do we need to "re-energize" the Democratic ticket when we're already energized? I really do not get this. If Obama's a cult of personality, Hillary is too. In such a situation, there is just no room for two egos and any reasonable expectation of peace. Frankly with the reports coming out lately, it looks like Hillary & co would still be bitter even if they were presented the Vice Presidency on a silver platter.

[Marrah_G]

58. Bernie:

At this point the Imp in me wants to see her on the ballot just for the sheer pleasure of watching many not so nice DUers heads explode when they realize they can no longer bash her.

But I do agree with you. It would be a strong ticket.