Catharsis...not always possible.

[madfloridian]

I know of many politicians who lost their races. I know of many who were subjected to actual ridicule by the media and by their own party. They never were given the chance for a catharsis. They had to just get right back into the party politics on their own, and do what they had to do to try to win back our country.

Sometimes there is no way to get rid of pent-up emotions, or feelings of anger without hurting others seriously.

The most striking thing about the video of Hillary Clinton at a fundraiser with her supporters is her use of the word "cartharsis."

The video is about 5 minutes long, and here are more details about it.

Hillary says her backers need to feel ''voices were heard."

The five minute video clip was posted by SimoFish, a PUMA (as in ''Party Unity My Ass'') backer who attended the New York Senator's July 31 Bay Area fundraiser.

It begins with a Clinton delegate -- cheered on -- asking the former First Lady to ''please consider having your name put in nomination'' at the Democratic National Convention in Denver.

''I'm asked this question every day,'' said Clinton. "What will to happen at the convention with respect to my putting my name in nomination, a roll call vote?''

''I happen to believe we will come out stronger if people believe that their voices were heard,'' she tells them. ''That is a very big part of how we come out unified...people want to feel like -- OK, it's a catharsis. We're here, we did it, and everybody get behind Sen. Obama.''

More at the link

In this video the other day with Chuck Todd and Howard Dean, Dean made it clear that it was completely up to Senator Clinton if her name is placed in nomination. Todd then asked if he meant Senator Obama, and Dean made it clear he meant the decision was Senator Clinton's to make.

Some of the blogs who support her are hounding the DNC about this, saying Dean is a liar, posting names of DNC people who won't call them back. They seem to not accept any answers as correct.

Few politicians get special favors, get their "catharsis" after a painful loss. Few supporters get their backs patted after a painful loss. It just doesn't happen that way.

ca·thar·sis

1. the purging of the emotions or relieving of emotional tensions, esp. through certain kinds of art, as tragedy or music.
2. Medicine/Medical. purgation.
3. Psychiatry.

a. psychotherapy that encourages or permits the discharge of pent-up, socially unacceptable affects.
b. discharge of pent-up emotions so as to result in the alleviation of symptoms or the permanent relief of the condition.

Dictionary.com

The use of that word at the fundraiser gave comfort to her supporters, but it also gave them ammunition to keep pushing her for the nomination.

[Shakespeare]

1. They should have had their "catharsis" two MONTHS ago.

Of all the selfish, myopic, destructive bullshit....

[azmouse]

2. So what should be done about the fact that these people can't let go?

Do we allow them to disrupt the convention and possibly ruin Obama's chances because their feelings may be hurt?

[madfloridian]

4. There is nothing we can do about it.

That is my opinion anyway.

[KittyWampus]

3. there's a major shitstorm w/McCain's fundraisers. Who the FUCK CARES ABOUT HILLARY?

[Lucky 13]

5. Isn't the act of VOTING making your voice heard?

Isn't that the whole point? This is utterly ridiculous.

[madfloridian]

36. Supposed to be...but the primary rules were changed.

by FL and MI, and then Hillary announced it was the popular vote and not delegates.

:shrug:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. I admire your posts in general, but you need some historical perspective on this one

It is true that a lot of losing politicians did not get the catharsis they might desire, but they were typically nominated at their convention.

Whether that was cathartic is kind of a side issue.

The traditional roll-call vote isn't designed as catharsis, it is designed to count the votes in public and declare a winner. It is a ritual of untiy through concensus arrived at through a transparent process, and a useful one.

Count the number of candidates with big blocks of delegates who were not placed in nomination, in either party going back 100 years. (You will probably only need one hand, if any.)

People are acting like there's something unusual about the idea of Clinton being in the roll-call. What would be unusual would be if she wasn't. It's a sick idea, really. The roll call reflects the primaries. Those people were elected for a purpose, which is to travel to Denver and say, "My friends and neighbors in my district voted for Clinton."

It's not real sinister. When Clinton said catharsis she could have more accurately said "closure" which is a better term for the finalization of an orderly process.

Put another way, if Clinton had won I cannot imagine any set of circumstances that would make it better for Obama not to be in nomination. Trying to prevent it would be correctly seen as insane and destructive. Just because Obama didn't win (in that scenario) would not render the primaries Orwellian non-events.

Candidates have released their delegates at recent conventions because the nominations were blowouts and it would be kind of embarrassing not to. And all did so only on the eve of the convention.

I have seen a lot of people pointing out that Democrats lost elections in the years there were multiple names in nomination. Democrats also lost elections in years bananas were yellow. Since we usually lose it's silly to attribute that to the orderly procession of the nomination process.

In 2004 Edwards and Clark released their delegates, closer in time to the convention than we are right now. And they didn't have many delegates. Kucinich did not release his. I don't recall any controversy about it.

[madfloridian]

7. This is unusual in that a sub-group has arisen.

Frankly I get that "I used to respect your posts" whenever I post about the disruptiveness going on right now.

The general consensus is to pretend that this sub-group is not there. It is a highly disruptive one that has zeroed in on Howard Dean as their victim, just as they did during the primaries. I said the FL and MI thing would carry over if the two states continued to be used as tools, and it did.

Okay, fine.

When it was over in 2004, it was over. No one pampered those of us who supported Dean. In fact hubby and gave more than a thousand to Kerry, bought yard signs for all the neighbors and kept replacing them when they were stolen.

I am sorry but the Clintons appear to be playing some dangerous (for our party) games here.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

10. I respect this OP also. I just disagree

There's paranoia in conflating what a handful of crackpots do (probably with republican funding) with the orderly representation of the elected function of the representatives of 16-17 million Democrats.

Process aside, there is an empirical question as to whether a normal roll-call makes Obama's November election more or less likely. Obama will probably study that and recognize that a normal roll-call strengthens him, not diminishes him.

[madfloridian]

20. Curious what you think about the smear tactics on Dean

in the ad I posted below.

To me it is like a continuation of the primaries, making him the scapegoat for following the rules.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

33. My view on all of this stuff

My view on all of this stuff is that no matter who won there were going to be crackpot supporters and pretend supporters doing shit.

I think the Dean protesters are assholes. I think that if Hillary had won there would be a bunch of Obama assholes doing similar things.

But none of it is meaningful in electoral terms. No swing voter follows these inside-politics shenanigans. (And if they happen to see them, they won't side with them. One thing you can rely on about swing voters is they hate all protesters. They don't care what the cause is. They hate protesters.)

[madfloridian]

34. I disagree. There was nothing like this bunch in 2003 and 2004

Dean formed DFA and set to work traveling the country to get down ticket Dems elected.

I don't think there would have been these groups without the hatred and anger carrying over from the primaries. The two states started it, but the Clinton campaign used the two states...so all contributed to the anger.

And they have made Dean their target, and he can't defend himself. And no one will defend him.

My mind is dead against the Clintons because of this. I have had it.

[madfloridian]

8. MSNBC just covered this.

Very effectively. Mentioned the catharsis....scroll said Obama did not see the need.

Me, neither. We were heartbroken over how Dean was treated. We were so active. He made his own way after that with no pampering...he stood up and got active again without making waves to hurt Kerry.

We never got our catharsis, and we survived because there was effing no one telling us everyday that we needed to have one.

[Egnever]

12. no one telling us everyday that we needed to have one.

Bingo

[Bad Thoughts]

9. Carthasis is easy: Defeat McCain

Kick Republicans out of the White House. Anything else is minor by comparison.

[Whisp]

11. this catharsis/release of pent up feelings...

I wonder which direction it will take:

1. wow, we fought really hard and it's great just to let loose and close it by cheering our heads off and congratulated Hillary on her performance.

or

2. hear all this pent up animosity?, well get used to it. we are going to kick and scream forever about how 'unfairly' Hillary was treated.

[Phx_Dem]

13. Obama actually replied to that in his

press avail on the plane today(?). He said we don't need no stinking cartharsis. Okay, "stinking" is my word, but he said the rest.

Damn straight. If anyone needs a catharsis, they should catharize themselves in private. :wow: Why should the rest of us have to watch and be dragged into it?

[madfloridian]

14. Found his quote: Just a few snips.

Afraid to post much AP stuff cause they are nuts over copyright stuff.

""As is true in all conventions, we're still working out the mechanics, the coordination," Obama said. One such issue is whether there will be a convention roll call on Clinton's nomination, he said.

"I'm letting our respective teams work out details," he said. Asked if that meant he wouldn't object to her name being placed in nomination and a vote taken, Obama said: "I didn't say that. I said that they're working it out."

...Obama was asked whether allowing Clinton's name to be placed in nomination might lead to a catharsis for the party, an emotional coming together that relieves pent-up stress.

"I don't think we're looking for catharsis. I think what we're looking for is energy and excitement," he said."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i9VRMevycLjQJp8Y2KbMGAUZAV8QD92DJU8G0

[Number23]

37. That man is Da Man

As to those avid Clinton supporters who still haven't warmed up to him and may even resent him, Obama said, "We're not talking to those people, we're talking directly to the Clinton campaign people and staff."

Good for him. Good for him.

:applause:

[madfloridian]

46. Great statement.

:hi:

[DailyGrind51]

15. If the situation were reversed, would we even be talking about this nonsense?

Obama would have been expected to "suck it up" and join the team, and he would have because he has class! Bill and Hillary are acting like spoiled brats over this thing.

[Danieljay]

24. Exactly. n/t

[Metric System]

16. You sure like starting these kind of threads I'm starting to question your motives when the majority

of Hillary supporters, at her urging, are now backing Obama (the polls confirm this).

[madfloridian]

17. I don't think you really read my post.

And I don't especially care or not.

I made some good points, it is going on.

:shrug:

You are free to question my motives. Usually my motive is honesty.

[dionysus]

44. this stuff is happening. it is real. would you have us stick our heads in the sand and pretend it

doesn't exist?

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

18. One of these groups has a new ad out saying Dean is neither impartial or objective.

Now where I come from, that is being divisive....attacking the chairman of the party.

http://pumaalliance.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/support-the-denver-group-new-ad-today-in-michigan-and-florida/

If this is "catharsis"....then I want nothing to do with it.

And any candidate who lets this stuff go on in their name I want nothing to do with.

Catharsis, my ass.

:eyes: :eyes:

[madfloridian]

19. Dean should not be forced to take this crap....smearing his character in ads.

I find it intolerable.

I am sad to see so many here just have no problem with tactics like this.

I want nothing more to do with the Clinton family until this crap stops.

[cyndensco]

21. Seems to me Dean should not be impartial now.

We have a (presumptive) democratic nominee. Whose side should he be on if not Obama?

[madfloridian]

22. They are also speaking of the primary.

It is an ad that smears his character.

They put all of us through hell in the primary, and now they put up an ad saying Dean was not impartial or objective during the primary.

I think you are right. He is for Obama now.

[madfloridian]

26. The first part of the nasty attack ad toward Dean in the name of Hillary.

It is an ugly ad

It is just outrageous. Does anything go now? Anything can be put in an ad now? No repercussions at all?

There is a picture of Hillary and Dean and these are the first words below the picture.

"Howard Dean as chairman of the DNC is supposed to be both impartial and objective. The feeling of most of Senator Clinton's 18 million voters is he was not. They believe he was not during the primaries and they believe he hasn't been since."

They claim Obama is not the official nominee, and that Dean is the one who should place her name in nomination.

The ad was in The Lansing Journal and The Tallahassee Democrat today. It is also supposed to be in Congressional Quarterly...isn't that Craig Crawford's site?

[Silentobserver]

29. Just as I figured! The Clintons' game plan is in play...

I just posted this on another thread! I think this is where the post below belongs, what a shame!

Clintons' coup shut down
Posted by Silentobserver in Latest Breaking News
Thu Aug 07th 2008, 09:06 PM
As early as August 5, 2008, the Clintons began a quiet move to stage a coup at the Democratic Convention, this campaign began on the web with surrogates entering blogging sites to revisit and create the Primary-like atmosphere where the passions of Obama and Clinton supporters were re-ignited. The intention was to build the fire among Clinton supporters while the likes of Lanny Davis began the cable news phase. These measures all were supposed to come to a head with the reactions of Hilary and Bill in the past couple of days which would snowball into a floor fight at the Convention.

But somewhere, somehow, this game plan got shut down with this offer to speak at the Convention, I honestly hope this holds because Hilary will most certainly throw her hand in the air and say, "Well, if my supporters are demanding that a vote be held I can not but stand with them as much as I wish to support Obama! This is not about me, this is about the process!" And with this, you will have an unpleasant convention which will set the stage for a Clinton comeback in 2012.

I saw this coming as early as August 5 and I sounded the warning bells. See my August 5 post below on the thread: Keith O speaks out on Dana Milbank's exit from the Countdown as a contributor. You can also read DU members reaction to my post at my Journal: Silentobserver's Observations.

Why Progressives DO NOT win elections!!!
Posted by Silentobserver in General Discussion
Tue Aug 05th 2008, 10:53 AM
I have observed this site for almost 3 years now and this is my very first post and I registered today just to say this: STOP THE BLOODY BACK AND FORTH, PEOPLE!
You have a nominee, support him and stop revisiting old issues! As much as the Republicans do not like their nominee, they are now fully behind him. Think about this for a moment - Rush, Hannity, ANN, Ingram and every known and unknown right winger out there who declared they would NEVER support John, is now out there beating the bush for him.

Why can't Progressives do the same? I'll tell you why? Because you all think you are too SMART, that's why! But SMART don't win elections, support does!

So, get off you SMART horses and support your guy and anyone who is trying to do the same for your guy! That is how elections are won!

Otherwise, look in the mirror the day after the election is lost and don't blame the nominee or the Republicans for stealing another election. Look in the mirror and remind yourselves your SMART asses lost you the election - again!

Have a good day.
Read entry | Discuss (0 comments) | Remove from Journal | Edit Post | Add/Edit Intro

[David Zephyr]

23. Unity in Denver!

Denver is going to be glorious.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. kick

[scarletwoman]

27. Tried and true methods of catharsis: emetics and enemas.

I heartily recommend these methods to those who insist they need catharsis.

A political party should not be blackmailed into providing therapy for deluded narcissists.

sw

[madfloridian]

28. Amen. I am even more angry now at the use of Dean as a scapegoat

by those groups. That ad is terrible, and he can go anywhere on the bus tour without their protesting and disrupting it all.

This has been a turning point for me. That ad today...it just hit me that they have done this in the primaries and it continues.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6603062&mesg_id=6605882

I believe someone can stop them from stalking the chairman, running lies about him in ads, and calling him a liar when he tells them the rules.

The whole DNC is under attack from their phone calls and so are the superdelegates.

Hillary could stop this in a heartbeat.

[scarletwoman]

32. The Democratic party has been under attack for years by the Clinton/Third Way/DLCers.

We're just witnessing the culmination.

It's a power struggle, pure and simple, with a lot of emotionally whipped up, delusional willing dupes providing the shock troops.

I cannot adequately express my utter disgust. The Clinton faction is cynically using these stupid people to do their dirty work in the exact same way that the Bushies have used the Xtian fundies.

sw

[The Wizard]

39. We have a winner

The DLC lost and they're trying to hang on to what ever power they have remaining.
The fact is they won with Bill Clinton because of Bill Clinton and he can't run again.
When given the choice, the voters will almost always choose a real Republican who stands for some principle, albeit out of the mainstream, than a Republican disguised as a Democrat.
Their goal is to prove Howard Dean wrong. Look at what that did for us in 04.
I'm confident that if Dean were the one debating Bush in 04, he would have plunged the sword in up to the hilt when Bush was on the ropes, unlike Kerry who was trying to be honorable with the biggest liar and thief to ever occupy Washington DC.
Fuck the DLC. We can't afford another loss this time.

[dansolo]

30. Howard Dean's catharsis

Howard Dean's catharsis was to become head of the DNC, and do whatever he could to help the Democratic Party. He knew that he could continue to serve, even if it wasn't as president.

[madfloridian]

31. Exactly. Well said.

[madfloridian]

35. When people say she has no control over these folks....

just remember that they are the ones who posted the video from the fundraiser.

We need to be honest about all this.

Dean has paid a big price during the primaries and now because the Clintons refuse to stop the attacks on him.

It is wrong.

[The Wizard]

40. New spelling for "douchebag"

PUMA.
They employ Rovian tactics. Nothing more needs to be said.

[SoCalDem]

38. Exactly!

When two teams battle it out at the Super Bowl, the losers hit the showers and board their plane for the long trip home.. They are not cajoled, caressed and comforted by the ones who beat them.. Reporters push past them to get to the winners... The big parade & confetti is for the winners...not the losers..

Politics is about WINNING...

Losers suck it up, and vow to try harder next time.. they concede graciously, and go home and then say nice things about the person who beat them..
It's just the way it's done, and someone at the level of HRC KNOWS this..

This is the single-most irritating thing about this race.. Obama has NEVER yet been able to crow..even a little bit about his win..he won the primaries, and was immediately thrust into the Clinton Dramas.. what would she do, what would she say, how was she feeling, would she concede, would she support him, would HE pay her bills, why wouldn't HIS supporters pay her bills, would Bill support him, what the hell is Bill saying now, what the hell is she saying now, will she upstage him at his convention, why is she still stirring the pot,..

I hope he was a wonderful vacation and tries to put his mind at rest for a little while, at least..

[madfloridian]

43. Very good comment. Well said.

It is time for her to step in with these "catharsis"-seeking folks and say no more.

She should tell them to stop using Dean in their attack ads, to stop stalking him.

Bottom line. Past time.

:hi:

[high density]

41. The cathartic process should've already happened

I don't know why Clinton and/or her supporters think they're so special that they're above the party or something. Continuing to be loud and obnoxious about a loss that occurred months ago is not catharsis. Where were these people in 2000 and 2004?

[noel711]

42. As an 'old-school' feminist, I find these tactics reprehensible...

Carrying the torch for a 'lost cause' is seen as heroic in
some cases, but this is more than ridiculous.

To frame the die-hard base of HIllary fanatics as true
feminists, and to keep beating the drum for 'voices need to
be heard' defeats the goals of true feminists.

Feminism calls for equality on all sides, not special privileges
for a chosen few in an interest group. Feminism calls for reality,
no special rules for a chose few; when the game is over,you move on.

My fear is that as this strident voice for 'catharsis' grows, it feeds
the anti-feminist perspective that defines women as 'hysterical,
and emotional.' Those words sure sound like catharsis to me; to keep
demanding attention and action in this way paints feminist goals into a corner,
feeds the conservative machine with more stereotypes.

Maturity calls for getting on with the inevidable.

[madfloridian]

47. And she was feeding that voice at the fundraiser.

She is not trying to slow them down at all.

[democracy1st]

45. K & R