CNN is reporting the O'Neill Cambodia Story Right NOW!!!

[beaconess]

[Sparkly]

1. Heard it!

"I was in Cambodia, Sir..." Then said he was on the border...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

He's An Odious Fella Ain't He (nt)

[madmax]

2. Arron Brown........!!!!!!!!!!!111

[cynatnite]

3. SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just saw it! Played the tape and showed the pic!!!!


YYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS :headbang:


Cyn:)

[spanone]

4. Just heard the tape......O'neill is a liar...proven....next!

[MissB]

5. Yes. Aaron Brown!

They've been clarifying this for a few minutes now.

[beaconess]

6. Played the tape - transcript:

O'Neill: I was in Cambodia Sir, I worked along the border on the water.
Nixon: In a Swift Boat?
O'Neill: Yes, Sir.

[Systematic Chaos]

7. Dammit my wife has a movie on and it's almost over

The what? Link please??

[WilliamPitt]

8. Nice

[JI7]

9. he isn't returning phone calls HAHAHAHHAHAH

just like the prick refuses to debate max cleland and backs out of doing shows if cleland or someone else as tough and convincing as cleland comes on with him.

[Amaya]

10. NICE!

Lets keep the ball rolling.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madmax]

13. So you have to piss on our parade???

:wtf:

[WilliamPitt]

16. Yep, he does

[madmax]

27. Choir, schmier......

"Jeezus Dems are fucking dimwitted, blinders-on, factoid checking nimrods." Yep, that be us.

But, the big picture is the media knows...we know that they aren't doing their job. I believe this will help Kerry and it helps me talk to people in person about what's going on.

Thanks, to Will Pitt, Walt Starr and all those whose names escape me because I'm pissed off. Keep up the good work you guys.

[Jacobin]

20. Did you read my post?

Is ANYONE on DU going to vote for Bush?

The undecideds are where the election is to be won or lost.

THIS IS MORE AIRPLAY FOR THE LIARS. IT MATTERS NOT THAT THEY LIED TO THOSE WHO WATCH 15 SECONDS OF NEWS AT A TIME.

PLEASE. I live and work with these druids. We have to stop being so smart that we do stupid things.

WHY do you think CNN is PLAYING THIS SHIT??

(nevermind, i'm talking to the wall)_

[BurtWorm]

34. How do you know the druids react as you say they do?

What are druids doing watching Aaron Brown? Isn't anyone who watches Aaron Brown inclined to be paying a little more attention to the news?

[mzmolly]

43. What a load of shit.

CNN is playing the fact that the MAJOR PLAYER IN THE SWIFT BOAT ATTACK IS NOT CREDIBLE, AND you HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

:crazy:

[liberalmuse]

14. And what great thing are you doing?

Naysayers like to criticize while they do jackshit--except for criticize and piss all over everyone.

Kudos to all those working on this story, and that goes for you, Will Pitt!

[Jacobin]

29. Merely driving people to the polls on election day

I should excuse myself from the vaunted efforts and discussions of those who wish to prolong the debate about Kerry's war record.

Please forgive my interloping on your high level work

[RetroLounge]

37. Merely something you haven't DONE YET.

Just talk.

So what are you doing now? Besides pissing on this thread?

RL

[mzmolly]

44. Gosh I don't recall your seething anger at the SWB liars? But your

suddenly concerned that one was EXPOSED? Hmmm :freak:

[TankLV]

47. I just love it when all these concerned "us democrats" types ALWAYS ONLY

post to complain when we:

1) Go on the attack against the repukes about any topic, or
2) Complain about when we REFUTE lies thrown at us, but

NEVER EVER COMPLAIN OR FIGHT AGAINST THE REPUKES!

Hmmmmmmmmm!

Why, oh why do so many cockroaches like to come out when they think the lights are out, only to scurry back into the darkness when the light of truth is beaming down?

[Amaya]

17. What is your fucking deal?

[WilliamPitt]

21. He doesn't like me very much

Ergo, anything I'm working on is automatically worthless.

You're familiar with mosquitos, right? They suck blood and carry disease, but mostly you can ignore them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. There Should Be A Special DU "The Sky Is Falling" Forum

That would keep the morale up for the rest of us....

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

30. So your solution to SBV and a complicit media

is to stick your fingers in your ears and concentrate on the issxues no one is reporting on because they're covering the SBVs?

That's pretty dumb.

How about we take one week and kill these guys until they're dead, and thenm kill them again, and then make the media film their dead credibility.

Works for me.

[papau]

33. That was your best idea this week! - Can I help! :-)

"kill these guys until they're dead, and thenm kill them again, and then make the media film their dead credibility"

Now I can go to bed with a smile on my face!

Thanks Will

:-)

[ender]

45. seriously... if kerry can stop the shit-slinging, effectively, then....

say "well, now thats out of the way, lets actually talk about the Issues...."

it would be beautiful.

[Amaya]

36. Bloodsucker is about right

This forum tires me.

[Jacobin]

22. Please don't read my posts. Just ask me what my deal is.

[WilliamPitt]

23. bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[RetroLounge]

39. Yawn.

:eyes:

RL

[TankLV]

48. We DO read your posts! JUST WHAT IS YOUR DEAL?!

Still a very valid question.

[BurtWorm]

24. I wouldn't be so sure about that. The high concept version of the story

is that people attacking Kerry are liars who are working for Bush. If you're paying the least little attention and aren't a partisan to begin with, I don't think Bush comes off looking too good. Americans are cynical about dirty politics, but I don't think they reward anyone caught playing at it. Quite the opposite.

[dweller]

40. dirty politics

Those that grew up in those days (Nixon, VN) have fairly deep memories about the times, that may influence their consciousness more than they realize.

again, i still think this SBV issue will have a determining factor in Nov.04, but not for the reasons those who rely on fear expect. Many are looking, still, for an end to the trauma and discord that still remains today due to that period.
Peace is still possible.

how much arises into play and guides the hand that votes on one day may be the payback that has taken 30+ years to come to an enlightening realization that may suprise us all.
dp

[brentspeak]

41. I wish I could share your confidence

But so far, Bush has managed to do everything from a) air a campaign ad loaded with a subliminal message; b) smear TWO war heroes; c) blow the cover of a CIA agent, and yet still retain the support of at least half the U.S. population.

Sometimes I think this is a poorly designed world.

[BurtWorm]

62. Well, we don't know how Bush's bullshit is going to play yet.

Republicans react well to dirty tricks, which is why Bush was able to get away with smearing the shit out of McCain, and why McCain is now kissing Bush's ass in gratitude for it. But we don't know how the country as a whole, including all those independents, will take to this tactic. Independents seem to be less open to that kind of campaign, based on the polls about how voters have reacted to the swiftboat lies. Even Republicans seem a little squeamish about it, considering that half of them believe Kerry earned his medals.

[Pirate Smile]

28. OK, you are right - the Kerry campaign should have hired hit men to kill

all the SBV who they didn't know for sure were on Kerry's side? I don't get your comment at all.

[brentspeak]

38. I understand your frustration

From all the pointless buildup on tonight's threads, we were all kind of conning ourselves to think that tonight's news would finally mean the end of the SmearVets issue -- and the beginning of the REAL campaign. But all it did was just drag it on for yet another dismal day.

Blitzer, Dobbs, and all the other so-called "journalists" have just been disgraceful: If I come up with my own posse of angry liars, can I get unlimited television coverage too? No matter how unreal and ridiculous my accusations are, will the talking heads still bestow upon them a completely undeserved measure of serious consideration?

[mzmolly]

42. Wrong, it'll be all over the news if we do this right.

:hi:

[Myrina]

57. Now, Jacobin ... you know better

... than to question the "We walk-on-water" distributors of the Kerry Kool Aid here at DU.

While they gloat over the 2-5% 'lead' that Kerry currently has in several states, they are fooling themselves into complacency, choosing not to realize that KKKarl and the BFEE will play to the lowest common denominator AND as you say, the 'undecideds' in the months yet to come, and that every second of O'Neill and the SwiftLiars is free advertising for Bush.

[nickgutierrez]

64. Ok, now you get to come up with an answer

Would you rather just let them play the ads undebunked? Because that is what would happen if things like this don't occur.

[MoonRiver]

60. You don't seem to like Dems very much.

:eyes:

[sam sarrha]

12. so what is it about...??? taping sitcom for wife....what ?????

[A_Possum]

15. Showed O'Neill with Nixon?

Cool, that can't hurt either. Link the two clearly in people's minds. Did they say anything about how the reason Nixon was talking to him was because he was gonna be sent out to attack Kerry?

[David Zephyr]

18. Excellent.

Watch the White House really begin to divorce itself from this shit now.

We must not let them.

FEAR AND SMEAR.

FEAR AND SMEAR.

FEAR AND SMEAR.

[beaconess]

19. TRANSCRIPT:

JOE JOHNS: O'Neill said Kerry made up a story about being in Cambodia beyond the legal borders of the Vietnam War in 1968. O'Neill said no one could cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape his publicist played to CNN that he himself had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971 O said precisely the opposite to then-President Richard Nixon.

AUDIO TAPE:
O'Neill: I was in Cambodia Sir, I worked along the border on the water.
Nixon: In a Swift Boat?
O'Neill: Yes, Sir.
END OF AUDIO TAPE

JOE JOHNS: O'Neill may have an explanation for this, but he has not returned CNN's calls. What is clear is that a top member of the Sboat group is now being held to the same standard of literal accuracy that they've tried to impose on John Kerry.

AARON BROWN: For my own edification here - Mr. O'Neill's publicist played for you a tape where Mr. O'Neill says what again?

JOE JOHNS: He says in the tape . . . that he did not go to Cambodia, plain and simple. He says that a couple of times, in fact, in this short interview that was played for me on the phone. Now, of course, as you listen to this conversation with Richard Nixon, he says something completely different. Or at least that's what it sounds like, Aaron.

AARON BROWN: It does.

[Sparkle]

31. So that must be the big story. But we all knew all along that

John O'Neil is a FUCKING LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eric J in MN]

51. Thank you (nt0

nt

[madmax]

32. Hit the ignore button for the first time on DU

feels soooooo goooood.

[Pirate Smile]

35. Thanks for the tip - I had forgotten about that.

[Julian English]

46. Now is the time to do something about O'Neill

O'Neill is an attorney. He has defamed another man. He amy have signed an affidavit on stating that Kerry lied about this.

Therefore, perhaps we should:

1)Investigate;

2) File complaints with the Texas attorney disciplinary board if the evidence merits this. That is if he acted in violation of the professional canons, try to have his license taken as the law provides when lawyers are unethical.

Note that he has a long record of personal animosity against Kerry.
See, for example, this story
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:i7vZAlX8nKUJ:www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2476454+Houston+Chronicle+June+15,+1971+memo+from+Colson&hl=en
(Only the google cache is available. Hmmm....)

[nomatrix]

49. Bush Campaign Lawyer Tied to Group's Anti-Kerry Ads

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6061397

"CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - A top lawyer for President Bush's re-election campaign has been providing legal advice to the group that has accused Democrat John Kerry of lying about his Vietnam War record, informed sources said on Tuesday.

The sources, who asked not to be identified, said Ben Ginsberg, the Bush campaign's chief outside counsel, has also been giving legal advice to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group that is attacking Kerry.
Bush's campaign insists it has no relationship with the group and has denied Kerry's charge that it is a front for the president's re-election team.
The Bush campaign declined to comment on the disclosure that Ginsberg is tied to the Swift Boat group, which has run a series of television commercials assailing Kerry and accusing him of lying about his service during the Vietnam war."

It's hitting the fan!

[NewJeffCT]

54. Now, other than stopping the ads

Other than stopping the ads, if there were close ties that lead to the conclusion that Bush was behind the Swift Boat liars, or at least knew about it and gave it his blessing, what are the consequences? Does it amount to anything more than a slap on the wrist? The people that love Bush are still going to vote for him, and the ones that hate him are still voting against him. The ads have already gotten a ton of play on cable news & talk radio, and them being pulled is only going to create more talk in the short-term...

[DemMother]

50. I might have missed this in all the posts, but it would be interesting

to find out what Will Pitt's role was in breaking the story. Did he uncover the Nixon tapes? What was the original plan for releasing the story? Just curious--not sure if these things can even be discussed.

[Myrina]

56. You're kidding right ?

:eyes:

[Scorpious_Maximus]

52. Nice Work

We need to get a transcript of this, or something, the way Walt Starr put together the medals thread, and put this on the homepage.

Very damaging to SwiftVets.

Maybe this is the "expected" bomb today.

LOVE IT!

[DeepModem Mom]

53. kick

[Malva Zebrina]

55. this is good news

Ray Taliferro had the jump on it this morning and I was cheering.

Why do these threads turn into boxing matches between posters here--it is not funny anymore -- and who starts it? Seems there always people who are deliberate antagonists willing to start a melee and then cheerleaders follow.

who starts off these childish he says, she says, conflicts anyhow

[Rockholm]

58. Is CNN Covering This Story Today???

[ItsMyParty]

59. Nobody is covering it this a.m. In fact they seem to have some

special little pieces doing more hits on Kerry--like some Lisa Myers shit on MSNBC. Why is this not making the morning news. I'm wondering (sometimes I've seen this) if they are waiting until mid day so 'great' reporters like Wolfe can break the news. I'm not sure, folks, we are going to see this. Much less that it's going to be a mega bomb on these trash. I cannot believe that something like this comes to the surface and the media ignores it like it's a story on a chicken crossing the road. Start flooding these whores and ask them in anyone listened to what took place last night on their own networks!!!

[patcox2]

61. The only way to win is to change the subject.

Sorry, the guy above is right, keeping this story in the news, even if to refute the SBVs, is a lose lose proposition.

Its the whole nature of this kind of smear campaign to create doubt, not to win an intellectual debate or present credible evidence. They succeed in creating doubt every time their accusation is repeated, even if it is repeated only as lead in to a story that says the accusation is false.

The only win on this issue for Kerry is when the story is gone and the new story is about Bush's awol history. A headline saying "Guy who claims kerry didn't deserve his medals lied about something back in 1971" ain't no victory for our side. All the average viewer-reader-listener hears is "kerry didn't deserve his medals" for the hundredth time.

Oh, its probably all gratifying to play the slueth and the Perry Mason and all that, but it doesn't work in the court of public opinion.

[Carni]

63. I disagree

The Gore campaign used that tactic by choosing not to give press time to what they considered rebuttals of the ridiculous and it only did Gore damage IMO.

Yeah, you can argue that Gore won the election -- but not by enough IMO.

It should have been a hands down landslide for Gore in general.

Bush had no foreign policy experience, a terrible record as a Governor and a biz exec, along with plenty of skeletons in his closet. Can you think of any other Presidential candidate that was an admitted drunk and drug user?

He also had a father that was extremely unpopular as President.

Bush's ass should have been roundly kicked in the GOP primary by McCain, but everyone followed the conventional wisdom some of you are speaking of and it didn't work.

If the swift boat shitheads were to just fade off the radar without being debunked IMO THAT would be a massive error!

[patcox2]

65. Well, we shall see. This is risky, but possibly a home run, this strategy

What Kerry is doing now, keeping it alive, sending Cleland and Rassmun, I absolutely think it could work, but it is undeniably risky. When I said "change the subject," I am referring broadly to setting the agenda, determining the debate. Determining the debate is more important than winning the debate, especially when you are going negative. Bush and his minions have set the agenda with their charges; the debate for two weeks has been "Did Kerry deserve his medals?" I still beleive that there is no winning that debate, its a bad debate to be in. And quibbling like a trial lawyer over prior falsehoods on the part of Kerry's accusers is never in a million years going to win the debate or undo the damage to Kerry.

However, there is a point at which defense becomes offense. And it is possible that Kerry can set a new agenda, make the debate over "Is George Bush a cowardly negative cheap-shot artist who hides away while his goons beat up on Vietnam vets." That would be a home run, if we now get two weeks of coverage which constantly asks the story, is Bush behind the attacks, is he lying when he says he isn't, why wasn't he man enough to meet with Cleland."

But I doubt we will get that. And remember, we have had two weeks of "did Kerry deserve his medals?" One day of "Bush refuses to meet with Kerry supporter, calls for an end to all attack ads by 527s" is not enough to call this exchange a win for Kerry.

And if the headline is "Kerry Campaign melting down, bizzarre over-reaction, kooky accusations" then this strategy will have been a disaster.

As I say, time will tell. We will know 3 minutes into tonights network news shows whether this is a worthwhile strategy or not.

[Revolutionary Mama]

66. No losses if done right

"keeping this story in the news, even if to refute the SBVs, is a lose lose proposition."

I disagree.

First of all, negative campaigns like the one the Republican Swift Boat Liars for Bush are running gets voters' attention. That kind of campaign also influences less informed voters that aren't aware of the evidence and eye-witness testimonies defending Sen. Kerry. I'm glad to see some mainstream media sources reporting the facts that counter the lies.

My father is a Vietnam war veteran who served on numerous Swift boats, primarily PCF 12 (a main boat) and with Coastal Division 11 - Numbah One Watchdog and retired from the USN in 1976 as CPO/BM. I take the charges these men are making quite seriously. The lying scum in that partisan group may as well have attacked my father's record and claimed that my dad didn't deserve everything he was awarded during his service in the Navy and at war.

Those liars need to be kept on the defensive, where they belong. Every lie they tell needs to be investigated, disected and exposed until these men are too ashamed to run another smear ad against Kerry's well-documented and defended record. They need to be made an example of what not to do to protect their own candidate against a better-qualified political rival.

When I first heard of this group, I was under the impression that these men served on Kerry's Swift boat. Because people have challeged them with evidence and eye-witness testimony, I've discovered that only ONE man on his boat is part of this group and the other men that were on Kerry's Swift boat are defending him.

The result of what I'm learning about this group, as well as, Kerry's Naval record for the periods they question has actually increased my respect for John F. Kerry. That's saying a lot!

After the Dem. Convention, I posted a message on my blog to express my frustration with Democrats for Kerry's nomination and to explain that I was only voting for Kerry reluctantly to get the Bush cartel the hell out of our government. Thanks to those lying veterans and especially thanks to the number of muck-rakers and hell-raisers that are challenging this group, I won't feel as badly about casting my vote for John Kerry. Thanks to the lying Veterans for Bush, I took a closer look at all that "war hero" stuff. I've learned a few more things about John Kerry that I didn't know:

He really is courageous. He also cared enough to return to the mined area to rescue James Russmann after he was informed that Russmann fell overboard and did so while under fire, as documented by more than one person (not just Kerry, as Larry Thurman wants us to believe), and as testified by men, including Republicans, that served with Kerry and witnessed this.

The more I think about this, the more I realize that they're probably doing John Kerry a favor by attacking him with out-right **lies**, provided they're kept on the defensive with facts and tough questions they'd rather not be expected to answer. They deserve to feel the burning light of truth shining in their lying faces and should not be spared a moment of peace from that kind of confrontation. They're being backed into a corner as their lies unravel. We must not cut them any slack. They get what they deserve. They instigated this. They're falling in the trap they made for Kerry. They get what they deserve. Let's give it to them!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0820041kerry1.html

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

http://www.mediamatters.org