Police Battons Code Pink Protester to the Ground - Video link

[The Sushi Bandit]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/videos/detail/police-use-force

Police use force at DNC protest

A Code Pink woman is knocked to the ground when she did not move back fast enough after the Denver police made an arrest.

[WeDidIt]

1. They aren't fucking around in Denver

After arresting four skinheads with sniper rifles, they will stand for no shit.

[Danger Mouse]

19. That's what it seems to me, too. They're totally serious.

Which I think is a good thing, to a limited degree.

[WeDidIt]

22. They are sticking 100% to riot control techiques

which is the appropriate use of force in teh given situation.

[trof]

97. She appeared to be 5 or 6 feet from 'the vehicle'.

How far is 'away'?
2 blocks?
She sure didn't look or sound threatening to me.
And then it looked like she was far from the vehicle and the action when she was explaining (or trying to) what had happened and the cop walks over and snatches her.
Looked uncalled for to me.

[WeDidIt]

107. When she was ordered to back up, two steps back would have sufficed

Approximately four to five feet, no more.

After that if he determined she needed to move back again, he would have givene her a new order, then another two steps back.

It's all very simple. I wish somebody would take the time to educate protesters on crowd control techniques if for no other reason than to avoid these situations. The woman put the cop into an untenable situation and he acted in teh only manner open to him.

[michreject]

167. Whe a cop is in riot mode

If he says move, move. Don't argue with him. It's a battle you can't win.

[midnight]

108. How absolutely sophisticated of you to point out to me the

term of this brutality.

[midnight]

111. We Americans should be so serious with the trillions of dollars

being spent for the private murdering of whomever. Let's get serious about health care the way the police are with this riot techinique.

[avaistheone1]

34. The police weren't fucking around in Selma either, but does that mean it is right?

I am really appalled at your sentiment.

[WeDidIt]

40. Tell me, where was the unnecessary force?

I saw only the level of force necessary for the situation.

[Name removed]

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[midnight]

125. What an awesome example to point out how horrible this behavior

by our brave police is.

[mikelgb]

2. Fucking sick I hope that guy is put in jail

[WeDidIt]

6. What guy?

It was a woman who was struck. From the video, she was also arrested.

[mikelgb]

25. the guy who assaulted her

[WeDidIt]

42. Nobody assaulted the woman

She refused to comply with a lawful order of the police. The offier utilized precisely the appropriate level of force in order to bring her into compliance.

Had the cop not firmly held the baton with both hands and pushed her back, but instead swund the baton like a club at the woman, I would be in agreement with you.

[mikelgb]

56. so sad

[WeDidIt]

58. It is sad because she could have avoided the situation

simply by taking two steps backwards.

The situaiton would have been resolved with no use of force necessary.

Just simply two steps backwards.

[Expose_the_RW_Idiots]

333. AnyDem .....

simply by taking two steps backwards.

The situaiton would have been resolved with no use of force necessary.

Just simply two steps backwards.


I dont think so, there are a lot of cops, that are cops, because they WANT to get the opportunity to do what he did.

He may be the type that regrets he didnt get the opportunity to use his gun.

Now that does not apply to all police officers, my uncle is a 27 year veteran of the Dallas Police Department. And he will tell you exactly the same thing I just said.

[midnight]

121. Please review the video.

[WeDidIt]

139. I reviewed the video several times

The woman violated a lawful order from an officer of the law.

He brought her into compliane with that order utilizing precisely the appropriate level of force.

[Barrymores Ghost]

191. That copped yanked her out of a crowd after the fact...

...as she was recounting her side of the story to the press, and nearly pulled her arm out of its socket. She wasn't doing anything unseemly at that time that a dozen other people weren't doing - the fucking pig just decided he didn't like what she was saying to reporters. I come from a family of cops and served in the active-duty Army and active Reserves, and if I were that woman, I'd take that cop and the city he works for to the fucking cleaners.

[Bonobo]

207. She was literally doing nothing to deserve being apprehended like that.

Protesters should have grabbed her back. It has been done. And successfully.

[WeDidIt]

221. She most certainly WAS doing something to deserve arrest

She was there.

She was told to leave. She chose to stay. That was a second lawful order she chose to ignore.

It's an open and shut case. She'll spend a night in lockup and pay a fine.

[Bonobo]

206. Wouldn't a lighter push also have moved her back?

The answer is yes. Are you really serious? Did you ever push anyone? Did you ever have a fight? Do you really have any idea what the fuck you are talking about?

How can you say it was necessary to hit her that hard? You must be crazy. Or very weak.

[WeDidIt]

222. No, it would not have sufficed. When she refused the cop had no other choice

He had to force her to comply and immobilize her.

He accomplished this requirement with the proper use of force.

[Bonobo]

234. He had to immobolize her? What? Really? Why the hell would you say that?

That's just crazy that you would say/think that?

No such requirement exists.

[WeDidIt]

249. There were dozens of other protesters

Sorry, he could not waste time trying to be nicy nice with one woman who already demonstrated a reticence to following his orders.

The move he used is, by design, the safest method he had to immobilize her. By design, it knocks the wind out of the average subject. This keeps that person from rising up and moving forward again in a riot control situation, which this obviously was.

Should the technique fail to immobilize, the next step is to thrust into the area of the diaphragm with the point of the baton. This is more dangerous, but if force must escalated it is the next safest step. If that fails, then the baton is used as a club to the body and finally the head. Rarely do these things escalate to that level.

[Bonobo]

256. Wow, you really should stop. Your jackboots are showing.

What you describe may indeed be written SOMEWHERE. But it does not mean it is okay in this case, pal.

It's like history being written by the winner. It don't make it right.

You are like a dog being wagged by a tail. Ass backwards.

[WeDidIt]

280. IT most certainly WAS the proper use of force

Sorry if you don't like it, but this was standard procedure in this case.

You really should educate yourself on how force is applied in crowd and riot control situations. the more protesters do so, the more likely this sort of thing won't happen. For example, had the woman simply backed up when ordered to do so, this would not have happened.

I put it mostly to the protest leaders. It's their responsibility to insure the protesters are educated on this.

[Bonobo]

295. According to your twisted logic, even the "SOP" of nazis would be acceptable because it is SOP.

That's a circular argument, a tautology.

You really should educate yourself on logical fallacies.

[WeDidIt]

296. The woman was uninjured

The goal was achieved.

That's the very definition of proper use of force.

[Bonobo]

300. You ducked my point. Want to address it or do you admit your argument is doo doo?

[WeDidIt]

303. You claimed lethal force. There was no lethal force n/t

[Bonobo]

304. I did not. I claimed your argument was circular because you defend it based on it being "SOP".

That's circular logic. Do you not understand that.

I never said lethal, did I? If I did, I should not have.

[Bonobo]

314. Still there? Do you see now why your faith is built on an unsupportable house of cards?

I'll spell it out again.

1. It is standard operating procedure for Nazis to brutalize Jews.

2. I am a Jew.

3. I was brutalized.

4. Nazis behavior was appropriate because it is standard operating procedure.

You see? Claiming it is S.O.P. is no argument whatsoever.

[Bonobo]

319. I see you give up when you have lost.

That behavior is consistent with authoritarians.

[WeDidIt]

336. I no longer saw any sense in continuing to argue

with people who hagve no fucking clue.

[Bonobo]

322. Getting you to shut up has been the highlight of my night. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

325. Here here

:applause:

[Bonobo]

327. Was it the tautology thing?

[EnviroBat]

342. You cops make me sick.

You would justify beating the shit out of a toddler as long as it suits your Nazi agenda.

[Raineyb]

301. Knocking her to the floor really doesn't get her out of there

And then what is the excuse for yanking her out of a crowd while talking to the press? No I think this cop was, as per usual unfortunately for protest situations, out of line.

I hope she sues the shit out of them.

Regards

[Name removed]

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[happydreams]

350. FUCK YOU .....

you stupid asshole!! He snapped her from behind, could have wrenched her neck very easily. That aside the cops are flat wrong on this.

[scheming daemons]

3. I have no sympathy for code pink.... they should be in St. Paul, not Denver....

Fuck 'em.

[TexasObserver]

8. You condone jackboot thuggery?!

Even if you do, aren't you ashamed to admit it?

I think Code Pink has its problems, but this woman was merely a protestor, completely within the law.

[WeDidIt]

11. Cop was in Riot Gear

Cop ordered her back.

Woman doesn't move back.

Cop utilized approved riot technique to move her back.

End of story.

Sorry. I was in the National Guard almost three decades ago. We were taught riot control techniques. They were extremely careful in teaching us how to approach these situations appropriately. This was after Kent State and the motto of the instructors was there would never again be another Kent State.

The cop did as he was instructed to do.

[TooBigaTent]

18. Yeah, too many witnesses. But nothing happened to the killers, did it? Only police attacks

on black students (Jackson State) are officially condoned.

Funny how you never see a right-wing asshole pushed, beaten, shot, or removed from a public protest by the cops.

We know who the enemy is. Code Pink is not the enemy.

[Danger Mouse]

26. Oh, it happens...you just don't see it because the media doesn't want you to.

[goodgd_yall]

27. Three decades ago

Let's see---that's the 70's. Some of the worse period of violence by police. Times have changed; what would you know what tactics are used today?

[WeDidIt]

30. Almost three decades ago

1981 to be precise.

The techniques in crowd control remain the same, though new techniques have been introduced such as beanbag guns and nets.

Lessons were learned after Kent State.

[Bluenorthwest]

89. By Kent State

You mean the time the National Gaurd murdered four unarmed protesting kids. Just to be clear.

[TooBigaTent]

93. Some of the dead and wounded were not even involved - they were walking to class

hundreds of yards away when the National Pigs opened fire.

And not a single one of the murderers were disciplined in the least.

[WeDidIt]

98. EXACTLY

Kent State altered forever how police and the National Guard approached crowd control.

If it had not, there would eb dead people at enarly every protest.

[tkmorris]

You don't sound like you know much about Kent State

Protip: It didn't go all hairy because of poor training/technique.

[WeDidIt]

136. IT went all hairy because the National Guard HAD NO TRAINING

in crowd control.

Their only training was in the conduct of war.

It was only natural that the approach would be, "this is war".

Ergo, people got killed.

any time a person or group is given authority to use violent force without proper training, innocent people are going to die.

As we clearly see int he video presented in the OP, when a person given authority to use violent force is properly trained, that force is kept only to a level that is sufficient to achieve the objective.

Woman was told to back up.

Woman refuses to comply.

Cop utilizes porecisely the level of force necessary to bring her into compliance. You can tell it was precisely teh level required because she did not immediately get back up and push forward, forcing an increase in teh level of force, but she was also up and speaking without apparent injury moments later, thoiugh in that case she was failing to complywith a lawful order to leave. Thus, she was arrested.

She was given every opportunity. She made her choice and choices have consequences.

[RollWithIt]

208. I have to disagree with you, even though I think the woman was also wrong....

You say that the cop utilized the level of force necessary to bring her into compliance. He basically clubbed her across the chest which knocked her hard to the concrete. The level of force necessary, because there was no surrounding riot to contend with other than some protesters not moving backwards, was to move forward and arrest anyone in non compliance. May I add, most police units would be trained to pass over a civilian who is disabled on the ground. Not come back 5 minutes later and arrest.

[WeDidIt]

224. When she refused to comply, there were immediately two objectives

Move her back AND immobilize her.

There was still a crowd. He could not do a simple shove and hope that was enough.

He used precisely the correct force given the situation. HAd she gotten up and moved forward after the first technique, he would have had no choice but to use the tip of the baton.

You're not going to win this one. No court or civilian body in this country would adminish this cop for how he conducted himself. You would be better served to learn what will and will not happen in these situations if you plan to protest. Otherwise, you'll end up like the woman.

[Bonobo]

258. Just as Abu Ghraib and Gitmo will also be excused by a "court of law"

The court of public opinion will be the final arbiter.

See you at the barricades when the people really start demanding change.

I wonder which side you will be on.

[RollWithIt]

274. I'm sorry, but I believe you are missing my point...

You have the view that just because a police officer is in riot gear means he has to treat all circumstances as a riot in progress. That's actually not true and most large cities train their officers to recognize the difference in situations on the ground. And actually, those officers were most likely sent in riot gear before the protest even took place. Charging and knocking to the ground unruly protester in a non violent environment simply to show dominance and back off a crowd is NOT proper training in a domestic environment. That's the kind of training used in open insurrections or foreign conflicts. It's a catch 22, they show up wearing riot gear expecting a riot and when there isn't one in progress they can create one by overreacting.

As I said before, proper procedure was for the officer to step forward, firmly grab the much smaller subject and place her under arrest. Knocking her to the ground with the force used is NOT the correct procedure in that environment. I will concede that it is not clear what happened before the incident but I do not see a violent melee near the scene at the time of the officers actions. It is clear that she was being unruly, which warranted a short stay in County under the circumstances, but the fairly violent clubbing he gave her shouldn't be condoned. I won't go so far as to condemn the officer or the police in general as some posters always do.

[WeDidIt]

285. This was iobviously a riot control situation

Did you not watch the video?

[RollWithIt]

318. I've watched the video 20 times... and I disagree with your point of view on this instance...

I support police and police unions nationwide btw and I understand the problems surrounding these officers, mostly verbal.

You view it as "riot prevention." The idea that a quick show of non lethal force will stop protesters from eventually working themselves into a frenzy and exacting violence in the community. I noticed you mentioned Kent State in some earlier posts. It's not a fair comparison because campus organizations in Kent had actually BURNED DOWN the national guard armory in Kent just a few days before those shootings. Also, the CO of the kid shooters (those NG troops were kids too) ordered them to fire (ya he denied it but he did.) Completely different circumstance. This would be "closer", the not really that close, to Chicago 68. Mostly non violent protesters with a few extremely verbal and extremely hostile protesters mixed in. They aren't throwing items. They're just screaming really loud and refusing move back commands.

In a non violent possible riot situation officers are trained to quickly arrest anyone who doesn't comply with clear orders. All he had to do was step forward, grab the perp and arrest the perp. I would be willing to guess he outweighs her by nearly 2-1 and from the footage I watched I can tell you he immediately knew that he'd hit her too hard. When an officer strikes a civilian the common procedure is to ALWAYS stay on sight after a subject is down. He clearly backs out of the incident perimiter. That is not proper procedure. THAT'S IN ALL POLICE HANDBOOKS BTW. Even the officers to the sides and back clearly stare at it wondering wtf to do now. That's a breakdown in discipline and protocol.

[shagsak]

354. actually, he didn't back out of the perimeter, he returned

to the line of riot officers. They were forming a "human wall" around the person being arrested and hauled off via golf cart.

Just sayin'.

[ieoeja]

346. There was a riot? n/t

[Webster Green]

10. No, fuck you wussies!

Code Pink rocks! :mad:

[WeDidIt]

12. I think they do damage to their own cause

They come off as whackjobs to the vast majority of America, and that doesn't help.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

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[WeDidIt]

110. you should learn something about cops

They're really easy to deal with if you know how they are supposed to act from their perspective.

for instance, if ever detained by the cop, do you know what the first four words out of your mouth should be?

Scroll down for the answer

































"I want an Attorney"

Once a cop detains you, those are the only words that should ever cross your lips to the cop.

[Name removed]

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[WeDidIt]

119. Nope, only the idiots defending the womanare dumb.

She was in the wrong. The cop was in the right.

[tnlefty]

211. I can only assume that you don't have a problem with the

encroaching police state and unnecessary force by cops?

No, I'm not dumb, I'm just getting sick of cops getting out of control and the excuses made for them. But if this type of abuse floats your boat...

[WeDidIt]

225. #1, there was no unnecessary force in the video. NONE

Only the ignorant would believe there was. The woman gave that cop no choice but to do what he did.

HAd this been a situation in a neoighborhood where the cop was alone confronted by this woman, the reaction would be different. This is not the case here. This was clearly crowd control in an escalating situation while the police are attempting to transport a prisoner.

The cop had no other choice. This is 100% that woman's fault, not the cop's.

[tnlefty]

313. Wow! So now I'm ignorant.

Cops always have a choice and far too many times the cops are heavy handed, but go on with your insults and trying to justify a police state.

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. What a condescending piece of crap post

I also doubt very seriously you have ever put your precious ass on the line and participated in a protest.

[WeDidIt]

141. Actually, I've participated in several

None of them required the use of force by the cops.

[proud2BlibKansan]

166. I have participated in hundreds, none of which required the use of force by cops

but several where cops did use force. And recently, many protests where anti-war activists were attacked by pro war supporters while cops watched and refused to get involved or even take a report.

[guruoo]

178. For the most part, yes.

[DevonRex]

101. I agree they should be protesting the republicans and not us.

Denver cops are tough. I put that message out in GD a few weeks ago.

That being said, I'm not one of those people who think police are always right. And unfortunately it is quite possible that they might actually go after anti-war activists before the RW nutjobs.

HOWEVER, no matter who you are if the Denver Police tell you to move, you'd better move. And if a group starts moving toward the police line, there WILL be trouble. No doubt about it.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

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[proud2BlibKansan]

172. Amen

It blows my mind that the same pro war votes are okay from the Dems but wrong from the repukes.

And anyone who doesn't believe CP will be in St Paul next week is not dealing with reality.

[guruoo]

184. "You are not permitted to use this message board to...

work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[Forkboy]

122. Nice.

:eyes:

[Joe Chi Minh]

123. You won't get any sympathy on here either. The yellow van with red wheels will be coming

along soon to collect you, and maybe send you off to Eyeraq for your pains, once you're well again. Send us all a post from both hostelries, won't you.

[midnight]

128. Just in St. Paul? And why is that?

[jonnyblitz]

152. BULLSHIT, the DEMS have blood on their hands, too.

They aren't complete innocents ya know and anybody who thinks so is fucking CLUELESS.

[Bonobo]

194. Another head fucked up by 8 years of creeping fascism. I'm dissapointed in you, SD.

[happydreams]

351. Fuck you too asshole. Go back to Freepland

[anonymous171]

4. Why aren't they readying for the Republican convention?

[mikelgb]

28. seems like they are

[moriah]

186. They are. They just believe the Democrats are at fault as well.

You'll see much worse next week.

[happydreams]

352. You gotta put your own house in order first

[goodgd_yall]

5. Sounds like the cop called her a "bitch" too

Did you hear that? "Back it up, bitch!!"

Disgusting use of force. And then she gets pulled away from supporters and gets arrested. No reason for it.

Sorry, but I need to bring back the ol' 60's "PIGS!" for this one.

[TexasObserver]

7. Where do these goons get off treating citizens like that?!

His conduct was unacceptable both times, and the arrest was clearly punitive, not based upon any violation of law.

This is the George Bush legacy: eight years of out of control law enforcement because there is no leadership from the top. I hope the lady sues this cop, and makes him go into court and defend himself.

[WeDidIt]

16. They did everythin 100% wihtin the law

There won't even be so much as an investigation over what the cop did. He did precisely what he was trained to do in that situation.

[TooBigaTent]

60. Is there ever an investigation of police brutality? The thin-skinned blue line sticks

together (along with their civilian thugs) and lie their way out of every incident in those rare occasions where video evidence exists.

I have no doubt there will be no consequences for the pig in this case. He will get a medal for putting the "b****" in her place.

I just wish the cops would treat right-wing protesters with the same brutality with which they go after liberals. Break a few bones or bust a few heads of the anti-choice crowd and see how long their dedication to denying rights lasts.

[WeDidIt]

76. you should spend a day with a cop

I dare you to go on the beat with a cop for a single shift.

I dare you.

[TooBigaTent]

84. I double-dog dare you to go join your friends on the other side if you love police brutality

so much.

Why would I subject myself to the perverted way of life that most cops live? I do not get off on beating innocent citizens, shaking down business owners, and proving that my dick is little by pushing others around.

[WeDidIt]

90. you've got a pretty fucked up sense of social values there, bud

You're a totla foiol if you believe most cops live "perverted was of life".

The woman in quesiton was not innocent. It's on tape. She got precisely what she asked for.

[TooBigaTent]

106. I was refering to the brutality, graft, and dishonesty. Their personal lives are also

shit, at least for their families.

My wife was a guidance counselor in an area where many cops live. Her caseload was primarily filled with dealing with children of cops. They acted out a great deal, mostly with a recognition that their daddy was oin the force and could get them out of any "difficulty" they get into. And, in most cases, the root of the behaviors causing problems was physical, mental, and sexual abuse of the kid by their police parent. Even when reported to the local authorities, nothing was ever done. Social services knows that you can never get any decision against a cop and the police themselves would never even take a report if the perpetrator was a fellow-cop.

Experience teaches us that authority without oversight is always abused. Cops have power and authority but are not subject to the same legal constraints that control our behavior. With the distorted and disturbed group of individuals who choose to go into "law enforcement" (now that is a laugh), is it any wonder that our "protectors" become our predators?

[midnight]

113. Now where have I heard that excuse used to belittle women

before? "She got precisely what she asked for" So what are your Social values?

[WeDidIt]

115. She was ordered to back up. she refused

The cop was left with no choice but to force her into compliance.

That's precisely what she asked for by refusing to comply with the order to back up.

[Joe Chi Minh]

129. But did she have amphetamines on her? That would have exonerated her,

no question.

[Forkboy]

130. Had one in my family. Spent many days with him, both on work and off.

What would you like to talk about? How much he hated "niggers"? How he used to plant guns on them? How they shot a black guy for a speeding offense but framed him to excuse their actions?

He used to brag about all this stuff. I dare you to tell me all cops are good guys. I dare you.

[Danger Mouse]

157. I don't know of anybody here who is trying to say all cops are good guys.

But then again, not all cops are bad guys.
There's a lot of bad cops, a lot of good cops, a lot of great cops, and a lot of damn awful cops.

[Forkboy]

159. That's my take on them.

[Danger Mouse]

164. In this case, I think the police officer was in the right.

MANY times in the past i have seen otherwise and said so.

[midnight]

133. Just curious, What would you want someone to learn?

[WeDidIt]

227. I'd expect you to learn what a cop faces every day. n/t

[Raineyb]

310. Sorry, I don't like doughnuts that much n/t

I cannot feel sorry for people who take a job where they regularly flaunt the laws they're supposed to uphold, get the right to carry a gun and more often than not use their authority to continue to bully the populace they're supposed to be working for. Then when they shoot someone they claim they were scared.

Most cops are the same assholes who would bully weaker kids on the playground. Not interested.

Regards

[midnight]

103. So the next time some man uses a blunt force object against a

women you will be ok with it, if it is ok with the law? If that isn't facism spreading from your post then I must go back and re-read the Diary of Ann Frank.

[WeDidIt]

145. Gender doesn't enter into the equation

Sorry, you are being sexist by inferring it does.

[goodgd_yall]

218. So the police are told to use the same force no matter what the size of the person

Those are some messed up guidelines, if that's what you're saying. It will result inevitably with too much force being used, as it was in this case.

[tkmorris]

132. Just to be clear here.......

A policeman hit a unarmed, non-violent, non-threatening woman, with a club, and you are defending this practice. That about sum it up?

[Danger Mouse]

156. The police officer gave her an order to back up from the scene of an arrest.

She was currently interfering with it. She was given multiple chances to do so. She did not. He hit her, not with the point of his baton, but in the chest, knocking the wind out of her, but not injuring her.
This is perfectly within the guidelines of what is necessary to maintain order during these situations. If the police officer does not deal with her, then what if other protesters start to interfere as well and get emboldened? The situation becomes more dangerous for EVERYBODY...the protesters, police, and civilians.
This method of dealing with crowds is how protests are kept peaceful.

[moriah]

187. He is trained to knock a woman down who is mouthing off at him?

I guess the police in Oakland were "trained" to aim their wooden bullets at people's faces and shoot people with them who were trying to leave, as well as shoot Longshoreman, too.

[Bonobo]

209. Yup, at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib too.

[goodgd_yall]

9. From some of the comments here

all you have to say is "Code Pink" and whatever injustice is done is OK.

Are we not Democrats?

I don't approve of much of their tactics either---I don't think they're effective---but, for chrissakes, the cop used unnecessary force on the woman.

[WeDidIt]

14. Unfortuantely, the cop used the right force

See my post above.

The cop was 100% doing the right thing. I've been trained in riot control techniques. Depending solely upon the training I received, had I been in the same situation as the cop, I would have done precisely the same thing.

Sorry if you don't like it, but the cop used 100% the correct riot control technique. These techniques were developed after Kent State to insure the lowest likelihood of major injury. You will notice the woman was up and speaking. She had no broken bones. She was moved back and immobilized when she refused to move back as lawfully ordered by an officer of the law.

You may not like it, but the cop did everything above board.

[goodgd_yall]

21. It wasn't above board, buddy.

The situation was nothing like Kent State. And she's a slightly built woman. That kind of force was not needed.

Why are you so invested in defending crap like this?

[WeDidIt]

29. It was 100% above board

Anybody who knows crowd control techniques will tell you the same thing.

He did not swing the baton. The baton was held within two hands. The woman was ordered back. She refused. In that situaiton the officer is obliged to move her back and immobolize her. He thrust forward with the baton held firmly in both hand to contact the torso area of the subject. This forces the subject back and is designed to kock the wind from the subject with as little harm to the subject as posible. Sex of the subject does not enter into the calculation. Age of the subject does not enter into the calculation. You move the subject back.

It was precisely the appropriate level of force.

Had the cop swung the baton at her head, it would have been unnecessary force.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

99. He could have gone cross-body, not tip first.

Methinks you got a chub from watching that. You a cop? If you are, is stuff like that a fun part of the job for you?

[WeDidIt]

112. you might want to go watch it again, he DID go cross body

That's proper technique.

Had she gotten back up and approached again, that would be the time to go tip first.

[EnviroBat]

343. Isn't it obvious?

He is a cop, and really gets off on seeing his thug brothers kick the crap out of an unarmed woman. Probably wishes he could have been there to dish it out on those "liberal hippies". It's clear to most everyone here that this pig was out of line. But Mr. Jackboots here will defend his buddies action, sighting procedure, and textbook bullshit used to "justify" police brutality because he really believes that it is ok for cop to act like this. He is defective.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

24. The cop is a fucking pig. I have questions about you.

I don't give a good goddamn what you were trained in. Do you think the SS wasn't also highly trained? Oh my god, she didn't respect his authority. Simpering little bootlicker.

[Danger Mouse]

32. Explain exactly what he did that was not part of normal procedure.

She was ordered to get back and did not comply. What's he supposed to do then? Give her sweets and flowers? Ask her nicely?

[TooBigaTent]

67. It is the "normal procedure" for the cops to put down any Democratic/liberal protest

with as much brutality as possible. "Following orders" is a piss-poor excuse and does not justify the assault, except in Bush's Amerika. You should just admit that you support the crushing of dissent, as long as it is from the left.

The argument should be whether they should have been prevented from asserting their first amendment rights in the first place.

[WeDidIt]

86. Politics doesn't enter into it. Rhetoric doesn't enter into it

And neither entered into this situation.

A person was arrested and was obviously being transported to the holding facility. The cop ordered teh woman to back up She refused. He had no choice but to force her into compliance.

End of story.

There was no assault. Tehre was only a woman who refused a lawful order in a crowd control situaiton during an arrest and trasnport of a prisoner. She had no right to interfere with teh cops. She had no right to move forward while the cops were in the process of transporting the prisoner.

She got precisely what the law and the trianing of the cops called for.

It was her OWN DAMNED FAULT

All she ahd to do when ordered back was to take two steps back. She did not. she made her choice. She paid the consequences for a bad decision.

She's also damned lucky it was a cop who is well trained that she encountered. There are too many ill trained cops in this country. She could have been hurt because a porrly trained cop would not have reacted properly and would have used inappropriate levels of force.

[WeDidIt]

35. Unnecessary use of force would have been to swing the batoin

The cop did not swing the baton.

Look at what he did. She refused to move back. It was a lawful order and she refused to comply. The cop had no choice but to move her back.

Thrusting with the baton at her torso with both hands firmly grasping the baton is the proper technique in this situation.

You will notice, she was not harmed. she was standing and talking when the cops finally got around to cuffing her. She will be arrested for violating the lawful order of a police officer. She's on tape refusing that lawful order too. It's an open and shut case.

[LittleClarkie]

57. Well, isn't that what she wanted? To create a ruckus, to be arrested?

Would these things be of any use to Code Pink of everything went peacefully? If there was nothing to report?

[WeDidIt]

61. I'd say it;'s probably what she wanted

but that it's counterproductive to her cause.

she could have avoided the lawful use of force had she taken two steps backwards. She coudl have continued shouting whatever she wanted.

Let that be a lesson if you wish to protest. Cops say move back, take two steps back. Situation defused and you continue your chants.

[LittleClarkie]

65. But what if she wants something the media can report about

What if she wants to make the news.

Defusing the situation is likely not what she was after.

Perhaps she doesn't think it's counterproductive as long as she gets media attention.

[WeDidIt]

68. Then she got what she wanted

which amounts to a night in "Gitmo on the Platte".

[proud2BlibKansan]

143. Are you actually claiming this woman wanted to be asaulted by a cop??

Some of the responses in this thread make me want to puke.

[WeDidIt]

154. #1, there is a precise legal definition of assault

so there was no assault.

Your premise is false on tis face and no longer needs to be addressed, but I will address it further.

It is often the goal of these sorts of events to gain attention by being struck by a cop, thus the taunting and refusal to comply with the cop's legal and lawful order.

[proud2BlibKansan]

168. Being struck is not assault???

On which planet?? :rofl:

[WeDidIt]

220. On Earth

Being struck does not fall under the definition of assault. You do not even have to be struck in order to be assaulted. You are thinking of is battery which also has a precise legal definition.

What the cop did was neither assault nor battery. What the cop did was his job.

[proud2BlibKansan]

267. Assault - a crime of violence against another person.

Battery - unlawful physical contact.

Shoving an unarmed woman to the ground is an act of violence.

[TooBigaTent]

88. You would also commend the pig if he shot the lady, as long as she did not die, right?

The defense of what used to be considered actions by the enemy on this site is disgusting. And this is the new Democratic Party? Very discouraging.

[WeDidIt]

91. What the fuck kind of shit are you trying to spew?

You have one fucked up sense of morality, youo know that?

[LittleClarkie]

102. Why do you consider police officers automatic enemies?

And she was not shot, so you are arguing about something that didn't happen. I believe that's know as reductio ad absurdium.

Do you assume all cops are pigs?

Do you not think that this woman got the exact reaction she wanted? No fun in a peaceful protest.

Meanwhile, why do you think the tent is too big? Who would you kick out?

[TooBigaTent]

146. My experience has taught me that the cops ARE the enemy.

To address your points:

The reference to being shot was referring to the main cop-defender here saying that she was not crippled, so everything is okey-dokey. That is not how I would judge an event.

I start from the premise that a cop is a pig. The main motivation is not to "protect and serve" no matter what it says on the car. They are bullies, plain and simple. they get off on pushing people around, especially because they know that they are not accountable for their actions.

"No fun in a peaceful protest"???? Are you totally fucked? Do you really think that everyone who protests is only in it to get their head busted? That they do not care about the issue?

As for the goddamned tent being too big - start off with those who support police brutality. Those who deny equal rights based on sexual orientation. Those who believe that it is perfectly acceptable for corporations to have more rights than people. The list goes on.

There used to be principles that someone who was a Democrat was supposed to believe in. Evidently, not any more.

Any and all beliefs are to be accepted so that we can "win." I am just not sure what we will win.

[a la izquierda]

179. I'm sorry you think all cops are the enemy.

My fucking uncle lost several of his friends on 9/11. Hopefully, the people they were trying to save people did have shit attitudes like yours. But you know what? They'd have done it anyway, because that's what they do. My uncle retired, rather than put my aunt through any more years of worry. But he retired only after weeks of digging through body parts on Staten Island. My uncle was a damned good cop.

Now, my aunt worries about her son. Another damned good cop. There are really shitty cops out there, to be sure.

I hope like hell there's a good one like my cousin around to save your ass when you need one. :mad:

[Joe Chi Minh]

147. If HE had amphetamines on him, why not commend him! OJ could have saved himself

a fortune in legal fees if he carried some on him. So could Wild Bill, come to that.

[Bonobo]

196. WTF is the difference. It was as brutal as it was unecessary.

Apparently some Dems are snivelling fascist boot-lickers.

[EnviroBat]

345. You moron.

The asshole could have implemented a simple pressure technique WITH HIS INDEX FINGER, and calmly directed he backwards to where ever it was that the "big man" felt she was no longer a threat. Your defense of his actions make you sound like a thug sympathizer. One of my best friends is a retired officer, and he fucking grimaced when he watched this asshole assault this woman. Yeah, I called it assault. That's what it fucking was. If I were to do the same to someone in the street, that's what I'd be charged with bright boy.

[Bluenorthwest]

96. You are a piece of work....

It's cool because she had no broken bones?!?!? That is your guideline?
I think you are on the wrong side of things there, Judge Hoffman.

[moriah]

190. So a peaceful protest is a riot?

A person who mouths off to a cop is causing a riot?

...

If that's how people are being trained, then they're being trained wrongly.

Just like the officers in Oakland in April 2003 who aimed their wooden bullets above the waist, which was totally against their procedures.

It might be better to do that than shoot a protester with a real bullet, but why should it be necessary to deploy force against a protester at all? A protester who was not being violent?

What HAPPENED is that the cop got pissed off about getting mouthed off to. And I'll be honest -- I know cops are people too, but because of their position of power in this country, they have a responsibility, a DUTY, to learn to control their emotions so they do not abuse that power.

[scheming daemons]

15. She should be protesting in St. Paul instead of Denver..... The cop used unnecessary force, true

Not condoning that.


But I have no sympathy for an organization that is protesting at the wrong event.

[WeDidIt]

20. Actually, no, the cop did not use unnecessary force

The cop was 100% wihtin the guidelines of how to conduct himself in this situation.

Seriously, that is 100% above the board riot control in that video. He will receive no reprimand. There will be no internal investigation. Anybody trained in these techniques will view the video and move on because there is no there there. The cop used precisely the correct force.

[goodgd_yall]

33. "Back it up, bitch!!"

I guess that's within the guidelines too.

[WeDidIt]

36. I did nto hear those words.

Sorry, you're hearing things.

[goodgd_yall]

38. Listen to it again. It's there. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

43. I heard the words but I couldn't say for sure that he said 'bitch'.

If he did, that was inappropriate.

[goodgd_yall]

47. Well, thank you. At least you can admit that much.

:eyes:

[Danger Mouse]

50. And again, I said 'IF' because it's not clear that he said 'bitch'.

[goodgd_yall]

215. Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfISlq1gzK8

The poster of the video on YouTube also hears the word "bitch."

[WeDidIt]

44. Nope, it;'s not there. It's your imagination. n/t

[goodgd_yall]

49. You have a nice filtering mechanism there.

If you're obviously prejudiced in favor of law enforcement, I suppose you aren't going to hear it.

[WeDidIt]

52. He never used that word

I'm sorry if you want him to have used that word but it is simply not on the tape.

[goodgd_yall]

62. Listen to it again. You can see he's hollering something

And maybe if you get the crap out your brains, you can hear what he's saying.

Sorry, for the rudeness, but you are really a piece of work with your emphatic defense of that cop's actions.

[WeDidIt]

70. BACK IT UP -- BACK UP

His precise words.

[goodgd_yall]

78. OK---now you're reading MotherofFour's text.

Fuhgeddabowdit. You'll believe what you want to believe.

[WeDidIt]

79. Turn your sound up all the way

It's vcery clear.

[goodgd_yall]

203. No, it's clearly "Back it up, Bitch, back it up." eom.

[WeDidIt]

231. You Are WRONG!

[Barrymores Ghost]

229. "Back it up, BITCH!"

His exact fucking words.

And then he comes back into a crowd and yanks her away hard enough to practically give her whiplash. The only "crime" she was committing then was telling a reporter what happened.

If you defend that, then then it's YOU with the problem, Pally.

Got it now?

[WeDidIt]

232. BACK IT UP ... BACK UP

Clear as day.

[Barrymores Ghost]

241. To those with selective hearing and cognitive dissonance, obviously.

If the foo shits, wear it.

[LittleClarkie]

80. I'd say he's a good balance for those who consider any cop to be a pig

I reckon the truth is somewhere down the middle.

[Barrymores Ghost]

226. The fuck it isn't.

I hear it as plain as day. Clean the fucking shit out of your ears.

[WeDidIt]

233. YOU ARE WRONG

Listen again. It's very clear. He did not use the word "bitch".

[Barrymores Ghost]

239. I used headphones, I turned speakers up. I know what I heard.

You go ahead and continue to defend stormtrooper tactics, as you have throughout this thread. At the end, she was simply talking to reporters and he yanked her away like a ragdoll. There's no excuse for that - it was just his adrenaline and his contempt for liberals on display.

I'll be very clear. My two best friends in the world are an area city police chief and a beat cop. My uncle is a retired police captain and his son, my cousin, is a state trooper in the southwest. I have nothing but respect for good police.

That fucker is a thug.

[WeDidIt]

245. The cop was in the right and no thug

It's too bad progressives cannot see when the cops are in the right.

You are hearing what you want to here.

The thug was the code pink woman.

[Barrymores Ghost]

251. Do yourself a favor.

Don't waste another breath trying to convert me. Your biases are apparent, and I know what I heard and saw. I hope that cop is outed, canned and relegated to humping the nightshift on an abandoned dock with some cut-rate private security company. Oh, and if he's married, I hope that his wife leaves his abusive ass for some other cop that she's been f*cking, too.

[Mother Of Four]

55. I owed hubby an apology after watching it-

:blush: I watched it...called him in and said 'Did you SEE that?!'

When I first saw it I had the volume at about half. And to me, it looked like it was unprovoked.

He said "yeap...now honey watch it again with the volume turned all the way up." was totally unruffled. (He tolerates my indignation because 90 percent of the time I'm right...this time I was wrong.)


(turned up)

Cop 1 "Move AWAY from the vehicle!"
Cop 2 "Back it UP" about 5 seconds later.
Code Pink Woman "whydontya, do it again!"
Cop 2 sides his baton and knocks her to the ground "BACK IT UP - BACK UP"

Man 1 kneeling, to Cop 2: "What the fucks wrong with you!?"
Background voice "Stop the violence! Go home you're not welcome here!" at woman on the ground.
Cop 2 "Leave or I'll arrest you."

Code Pink Woman to reporter after being told to leave: "Theres a gentleman being arrested and there are alot of us..."
She gets removed.


He said the exact same thing you did, that it was riot technique. He parsed it for me, and said it looks like a fella was being arrested and Code Pink Woman decided to interfere. Then refused to leave after being told to, to talk to reporters instead.

I had to swallow crow and say "sorry" :blush:
He said in a situation like that, especially right after they took rifles etc from some people wanting to kill Obama- no matter how half baked the idea was, they will take NO chances that anything might erupt.

[WeDidIt]

63. I have tears welling up in my eyes

Thank you.

It's sad because I hate to see the violence, but I was trained from the perspective of the cop and I understand the no win situation he was in all too well.

[Mother Of Four]

75. ...

:hug:

Please understand that many times when we stand up and say something in a situation like this- there are MANY people who have bad run ins with PD. For every good cop out there, there are 4 news stories about some PD abusing authority. Unfortunately, the new guys aren't being trained the way they should and it perpetrates the bad feelings with bad situations.


Don't take it personally hon, I learned the hard way that they aren't really attacking YOU (me whoever) persay- they are attacking injustice period.

And THAT, is what makes this board great :) The ability to call things out, to agree to disagree. Doncha think?

[WeDidIt]

77. I've had my bad experiences with cops, don't get me wrong

It's because of those excperiences that I feel the need to stand up for a cop when he's really doing what he's supposed to do in a situation.

:hug:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

138. I was trained in stuff cops wouldn't and couldn't do.

Because they couldn't hang in and they couldn't face dealing with a guy with a ponytail being better than them and ranking them.They were wusses and couldn't pay the real price, even though the classes were free to all cops. But they sure liked talking about all the asses they kicked. They never lasted more than two classes.

Fact is, he did not have to go tip-first with that baton. That is, in any percussive weapon discipline, a tip strike is one of the most potentially damaging strikes. Lots of force concentrated in a small area. If a cop does not know that, it's not my fault that they are too fucking stupid, as a group, to know simple physics and how to truly use their weapons.

As infatuated as you seem to be with the profligate and unchallenged use of force by police in this nation, against citizens exercising their constitutional rights of assembly and protest, I see no good coming out of it. Sooner or later, some dumb-assed community college justice school graduate, high on the rush of being him, is gonna go too far, and he will be found torn into little bits, hanging from a bridge and on fire. Because that is what the lessons of history teach us. I daresay that at the rate we are going, we are not too far off from that sad event. At the present rate, it's just a matter of time.

And no, I am not a Code Pink fan. What I am a fan of is constitutional rights in a peaceful society where the laws apply equally to all, regardless of whether they are cops or not. Police are not a protected category, above the laws of the land, who are issued hunting licenses on their fellow citizens, along with their badges and weapons.

And to those who would not have Code Pink raising their voices in Denver: Shame on you. Hang your heads in shame. We may not LIKE what they are saying, but goddamit, they got a right to say it. Idiots.

[proud2BlibKansan]

171. You are crying because a cop acted like a thug?

:wtf:

[WeDidIt]

230. No cop acted like a thug

and blmaing the cop is completely WRONG in this case.

The cop was right. The woman was in the wrong 100%. The cop was not even one one-millionth of a percent in the wrong.

[EnviroBat]

347. Aw geeze...

The Nazi "love-fest" is bringing up my lunch...

:puke:

[goodgd_yall]

64. OK, I give up---hubby knows everything

:silly: :eyes:

[Mother Of Four]

69. HAHAHHAAHHA-

:rofl: Oh no he doesn't! I said "About 90 percent of the time I'm right"

I love my husband dearly, and it's OUT of love I say when I'm wrong. This time, I was :shrug:

:silly: right back atcha :p

[proud2BlibKansan]

176. Oh did the Democrats vote to stop funding the war?

That's great news! I wonder why the media hasn't covered it.

[G_j]

66. obviously

some prefer the fascist version of ..ahem.. "Democracy"

[pecwae]

71. The amount of force

condoned always seems to depend upon the target and what group is doing the protesting.

[goodgd_yall]

82. Small woman=target, Peace=protest

Oh yeah! She had it coming. (sarcasm)

[midnight]

117. AMEN!!!

[liberaldem4ever]

17. Why is Code Pink demonstrating against the Dems?

They are supposed to be for peace-surely they don't think the Rethugs are going to fight for World Peace. :shrug:

That policeman was using too much force on the woman in that video, IMO. I'm not a policeman and I wasn't there, but that looks bad.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

41. My first thought, too

What the hell are people doing protesting at the convention that will nominate a man who has vowed to end the occupation as soon as it can be done rationally and safely (for the brave GIs)? Come up to Minny and protest the living hell out of "War now, war forever" Grampy McShits. Use a little sense in picking your enemies.

:wtf:

[liberaldem4ever]

72. I wish someone would tell me why they are at the DNC

Everybody is talking about the police use of too much/appropriate amount of force in this thread. Does anybody know why Code Pink is demonstrating against Dems?

And there was an Anti-Torture group protesting there too yesterday. Why the Dems and not the Rethug convention?

I bet the RW is laughing their sorry asses to see this stuff happening . :banghead:

[proud2BlibKansan]

181. Good point!!

Since the Democrats have ended the war and impeached bush and cheney, there is absolutely no reason for Code Pink to be protesting at their convention!

:sarcasm:

[liberaldem4ever]

217. OK-I'm just asking

I don't know about Code Pink.

[Canuckistanian]

104. I was wondering the same thing

Why were they so indignant? What message were they trying to send?

Jesus, save it for Minnesota. THEY'RE the enemy.

[Mojorabbit]

105. Yes

after all Nancy Pelosi stopped funding the war after the dems got in in 06.

[liberaldem4ever]

160. That's true

And she and lots more people deserve lots of criticism for their not doing more to end the war when they said they would.

But I just don't get what doing this accomplishes when the only chance to get out of Iraq is Obama. McBush wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years.

[goodgd_yall]

205. All Ri-i-i-ght, let 's just go tangential

The topic too uncomfortable for you?

[liberaldem4ever]

246. I'm not sure what you mean

I looked up that word and I still don't. I HONESTLY didn't understand why the group was protesting the Dems when they are for peace. OK, if it is because of the way the Dems wimped out on funding the war in this Dem led Congress, then that is the answer. I'm not putting the group down in any way, I just wanted to understand why. That is why I'm here-I like to learn about politics and other things.

If you just want someone to pick on, you might want to find somebody else. My husband just left me just before our 20th anniversary and my nerves are raw. Can't go there with you, sorry.

[goodgd_yall]

253. My meaning

Your post started a subthread of people critiquing Code Pink rather than the police action against the woman. I apologize for not acknowledging your statement about the police conduct. But the subsequent posts were more invested in criticizing Code Pink than addressing the unnecessary force used against the Code Pink member.

[liberaldem4ever]

263. That's OK-no harm none

I'll look up their website and find out more about them. Anybody who is working for peace is not a bad guy. I wasn't criticizing them, I just wanted to understand why they were protesting the Dems and not the Repubs. To learn, not to put anybody down.

[Danger Mouse]

23. Again, with Obama's life in potential danger, police and SS aren't taking any shit.

Obama's safety is their #1 priority, if some Code Pinkie wants to test the waters she'll find out right quick how serious they are.

[TexasObserver]

39. Bogus argument. Had nothing to do with Obama's safety.

You sound like Dick Cheney.

[goodgd_yall]

45. Lame.

Yeah, sure, Code Pink is Public Enemy #1. Got to watch those lefties. You sound like a RW nutjob right now.

[Danger Mouse]

53. Typical ad hominem.

[Mojorabbit]

54. Obama was not out in the street

try again.

[goodgd_yall]

59. Right

We've got 2 posters here who just LOVE their cops. They can do no wrong. I can't see any other reason for being so adamant their views.

[WeDidIt]

73. I will not allow you to paint me that way

This cop acted within the bounds of the law and used the appropriate force. He will suffer no consequences for conducting himself according to his training and the law.

The woman, however, will be spending a night in the holding pen, will ahve to apy a fine, and probably has a few bruises.

Teh REASON she only has a few bruises is BECAUSE the cop acted fully within the law and utilized 100% the approirpiate level of force for the situation. The cop is well trained and a credit to his profession.

There are cops who use unnecessary force, and I will call out such abuses when I see them. This situaiton, however, was not such an abuse.

I commend this cop. He did his job and he did it well.

[Danger Mouse]

140. Bullshit. You know NOTHING about me. When I've seen behavior from cops I saw as wrong...

I've called it out.
In this situation, I don't see it.

[shagsak]

357. Nice!

They can do no wrong? Way to speculate! You can't see any other reason? Well then you must be right because that is the ONLY possible alternative.

It couldn't possibly be that there is a logical reason for the force applied... Nah no way in hell, you must be right. Mob wins!!!11

[TooBigaTent]

74. Do you actually believe that the cops want to protect Sen. Obama's life? Practically every

one of the thugs I have ever met would revel in that event - most would love to participate.

But they have the guns and the "law" behind them, so it is an unequal battle.

[LittleClarkie]

109. You've really got a thing about cops, don't you.

Perhaps you see what you want to.

[monomach]

31. Looks like it's out-of-context to me.

Why would they edit the video so heavily?

Answer: To make it look like police brutality.

[TexasObserver]

37. It's clear on its face that the police conduct was unacceptable.

Wasn't it obvious to you that the woman was arrested as an afterthought, and BECAUSE she was talking to a video interviewer about it?!

If you want to defend jackboot thugs with badges, you're in the wrong place.

[WeDidIt]

46. N o, it's clear their behaviour was 100% acceptable

Had he swung the baton like a club, I would agree with you.

she was ordered back.

She refused.

The cop had no choice but to force her into compliance, for her safety, his safety, the safety of the other cops, and the safety of the subject they had just placed under arest and were transporting to a different site.

It's clear, the cop did the right thing.

[TooBigaTent]

81. Right. cops are so concerned about the SAFETY of people they abuse. They only care about

their own.

That is why the only way to get prompt police action (in the hopefully rare and unfortunate instance you decide that you are at slightly lesser risk from them than a situation you find yourself in) is to report that an "officer needs assistance." That will get them to you in a minute. Otherwise, you wait until they get around to it, if ever.

[WeDidIt]

92. You're GOD DAMNED RIGHT cops care about safety of the public

That's their fucking job!

Only a MORON would make the fucked up claims about cops you're making on this thread.

[joshcryer]

118. The stress of these situations is unbearable, most cops do not have "the safety of the public" on...

...their mind. This is pretty much indisputable. They're generally outnumbered 100 to one at these protests (though in this case it's more like 10 to 1). Cops cannot use deadly force on protestors but when they're surrounded by a force that can be deadly to them they are highly intimidated. Not to forget that a good number of the protesters are in their face all day.

This guy got fed up and wanted to take someone down, there was no "safety issue" involved here. None whatsoever.

While I agree selective editing was done to make the Code Pinker look to be the good guy the fact remains that excessive force was absolutely done here. I guarantee you she will be released without charges as are *most* protestors who cops are imtimidated by and who take them down.

[Bluenorthwest]

135. You know, buddy boy

I lived for years in the heart of the big big city, and I saw out my tower window more police brutality than I like to remember. Cold bloded shootings of unarmed people. 7 buillits in a woman with a pen knife who needed help, not death. Bystanders caught in what the cops called 'crossfire' although they had all of the guns involved, got shot by the police and then told to sit down and stop crying about it. I heard it with my own ears. Brave crowd you defend.
I saw one of your boys chase a mother and child down the street waving a night stick at them. It was Halloween, the kid was in costume, the cops called curfew and Mom did not run fast enough. Billy club, Mom and wee child.
Once I was walking down the street- you will love this one- and found a woman unconsious in the street half dressed and I ran to the main street to find a cop. Told him about her. He says
" sounds like you should take a free shot while she's passed out." Got that, defender of the blue? He said I should rape her. Really funny. He refused to call for asssistance. I did it myself. That, you see, is how they wind up being called pigs. By being pigs.
I could do this all day long. Now, I have also known and seen some good and brave and honest law enforcement. The bad far out weigh the good. Thirty years ago is a long time, old mole. Perhaps a few days out in Compton or somesuch in 2008 is in order before you spew your rot.
He said I should rape her. Chew on that one.

[LittleClarkie]

149. So you live in Denver?

So the cops on the vid are the ones you grew up with?

Otherwise what do those cops have to do with these cops, unless of course you're making an argument for bigotry, that the actions of some people in a group means that all the people in a group would act the same?

[GirlieQ]

162. I've had a run-in with Denver pigs.

I was taking a bottle of champagne to my hotel room on New Year's, 2005. I was staying at a hotel with a friend from Boulder, because I wanted one last bash with everyone before I moved out of the state. A friend was carrying the bottle, and he was behind the group. The cops cornered him and 'confiscated' the bottle, saying that it was a weapon. He pointed out the cops to me once he got away, and I saw them toss the bottle in a trash can. I waited until they'd walked off a bit, and went to retrieve my property, which they'd thrown away. Apparently I didn't wait long enough, or maybe I didn't hide it well enough under my winter jacket, still in the paper bag, mind you, because I got swarmed by 9 enormous cops. I'm 5'1", and probably 125 with my winter gear on. They actually ripped the bottle out of my hands so hard that the foil covering the cork cut my palm in like 8 places. I was threatened with arrest if I didn't let go of the bottle.

Not really wanting to spend the night whichever drunk tank they put people in on New Year's, I let it go. Then I walked around the corner, took off my jacket, changed my hairdo, and took off my glasses, hoping that they wouldn't take notice of me again. I was scared because I didn't know exactly where I was, I didn't know where my friends were, and obviously the cops had no intention of letting people behave like the free citizens we are.


Edit: I should mention that I've lived in northern Colorado for 19 years off and on, and good policemen are few and far between. And that's a quote from a friend's father, who is CSP.

[joshcryer]

213. At least the pigs let you smoke pot in the public parks.

:)

[Danger Mouse]

48. It's clear on the face how? Because you said so?

[TexasObserver]

85. It's clear on its face because anyone not a fool can plainly see it.

Now do you understand why you don't see it?

[WeDidIt]

94. Only a nfool would claim that woman was anything other than in the wrong

she got precisely what she wanted, your attention.

she also got precisely what the law called for, arrested.

[jberryhill]

312. Watched it several times - and couldn't figure out the context either

It was quite a push, though.

[zulchzulu]

51. Any eyewitness accounts (outside of Code Pink people)?

The cop slapped her pretty good, but it looks like they had to be doing something out of bounds...

I know... it's easy to call the cops crazy n' shit, but I'd prefer the full story.

[moriah]

183. Uh... did you even watch the video?

It's pretty damn clear that the chick was simply not moving back fast enough to suit them, and was mouthing off.

But mouthing off does not justify getting knocked to the ground.

Nor should the other woman have been yanked away from speaking to reporters like that either?

....

I know you don't agree with what they're doing. Their belief is that the Democrats capitulated to the Bush Administration and did not do what they should have to have stopped the war from happening in the first place.

You guys have raged on and on about certain people's votes for the war. So? They're supporting your view.

And if anyone is to have free speech rights, everyone must have those rights. Even if you disagree with them.

[shagsak]

83. I see nothing wrong

I know better than to test cops. They have a job to do and don't have a big tolerance for discussion about right and wrong during arrests and riot control. I heard very clearly MOVE AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE, then BACK IT UP several times. I also heard the woman say "Fucking do it again" to the cop after he apparently tried to move her (out of camera shot but probably not near as hard as the one on tape since she was still able to talk shit). Any one with the nerve to talk shit to a riot cop got off lucky if they were just knocked to the ground. Usually they beat the piss out of you since that can be taken as a threat of violence on them.

Keep in mind those people were there to PROTECT THE PUBLIC. If a riot breaks out, it causes a danger to innocent people who most likely want nothing to do with it.

I wouldn't have shoved her though, tasering is alot more effective and scares others out of doing anything stupid.

[moriah]

185. She was mouthing off, yes.

But she did not deserve that.

What, is it illegal now to mouth off to a police officer?

[shagsak]

353. It isn't illegal to mouth off and speak your mind

And I'm sure if she was back from him and giving him a piece of her mind that would have been fine. However, she was in his face, up against him and his buddies "wall" between the vehicle and the group, defying his explicit statement of "back up" which he said quite a few times on the tape, maybe even more. She then dared him to "fucking do it again" (i assume try and move her back). Mess with the bull, get the horns. It's not rocket science. And this isn't anarchy.

[TheWatcher]

87. Interesting responses in this thread

I had no idea it was the 1940's and that there were so many "Good Germans" on DU.

I need to check my Calendar more often.

The days are getting away from me.

What a nation of submissive cowards we are becoming.

[goodgd_yall]

124. ..

It's astonishing, isn't it. But, now that I think of it, any time police behavior comes up, there's an upwelling of supporter for them here.

[Danger Mouse]

137. Oh god, now it's the 'Good Germans' bullshit.

Again I ask, what was the police officer supposed to do? She was told to back up. She did not. The police officer helped her move.

[WeDidIt]

142. Godwin's LAw, we win

:D

[Danger Mouse]

144. Wait, next they'll call us 'sheeple'...wait for it...

[WeDidIt]

150. It's idiots like thoe who think this was police brutality

that end up getting themselves fucked up at protests because they have no fucking clue. They think that because it's a protest, they don;'t ahve to listen to a cop that says, "Back up".

Shit, fifteen minutes before a protest with the right information, there would never again be force used. Unfortunately, too many assholes think they know better and protest organizers who WANT this shit to happen to incite more idiots who have no fucking clue.

[bread_and_roses]

264. yeah, and it's getting worse all the time - rampant authoritarianism

and the Orwellian notion that we should only oppose and protest war-mongering, war-voting, war-funding when Republicans do it. When Democrats do it everyone is supposed to pretend they didn't, I guess.

[DevonRex]

95. The Denver Police have always been absolutely serious about

maintaining order. I haven't watched the video yet. But I can believe that the response could be over the top.

They don't mess around. When they tell someone to disperse, they had better listen.

For any of our precious DUers who are in Denver, be careful. It might be kind of fun to watch the protests but if things get out of hand you could get caught in the middle.

[eshfemme]

116. WTF's up with the kneejerk reaction of blaming the cops like it's cool to be a fucking lone ranger?

I grew up a block away from the fucking cops. There were never any problems because for the most part, if you are respectful, they are respectful back. For some reason, people keep wanting to reproduce the "glory days" of civil rights activism where people were risking their limbs against a racist government. Times are different now-- not all cops are racist fuckers and not all activists are crusaders for justice. Also, the belligerent attitude bespeaks a mentality that is just wrong-- like the protester thinks of themselves as so important that "The Man" will do anything to beat them down. It trivializes the real conflict that the tradition of peaceful protest comes from because it's the protester preparing to do physical battle instead of holding to the proud tradition of pacifism.

Yeah, activists can be attention whores and fucking idiots just like the police who are obviously way too testosterone-ridden are the authority figures that should be railed against. But when it's a situation that can be easily defused and you don't take the steps to defuse it as an ordinary citizen, then it's NOT POLICE BRUTALITY. I went to a college where a large party held at a popular on-campus apartment complex became the opportunity for the fucking local sheriffs to try out their brand spanking new riot gear complete with rubber bullets, tear gas and pepper spray. And this was a crowd of predominantly white college students who were just drinking and having fun. So I'm not saying all cops are good but don't fucking assume that they're all bad when situations like this arise. The situation with my school was fucked up and I personally believe the local sheriffs were on a fucking power trip but in Denver, when security is tight FOR A FUCKING REASON and protesters are not obeying orders given for their own safety, don't fucking blame the police. They were doing their job.

I'm also all for protests but protesters need to be trained in proper protesting procedure just like the riot police are trained in riot procedure. What I think the more "old-timer" or traditional protests should learn from is the Anonymous monthly protests against Scientology, who are a protest group I like to follow the news on. When they first started out, they first of all did their fucking research on both their opponents AND the law. They were lawful and they also had fun and they made their fucking point.

So all this talk about pigs and crap like that, actually think before you post. Okay?

[WeDidIt]

126. Thank you

There is a percentage of cops without proper training.

From what I've seen of protesters, about 98% percent have no clue how to handle themselves in these situations. If protest organizers would give just fifteen minutes of training, most oft this shit could be avoided and protests would achieve thier objectives, so long as their objective is not coming off as idiots on television.

[eshfemme]

148. Yes, responsibility goes both ways. The cops are responsible for not going over the bounds but so

are the protesters. Even when they are exercising their right to peacefully assemble and protest, they still need to observe certain proprieties. Protesting does not give you a fucking carte blanche to provoke/taunt/threaten the police. Just like McCain's POW card, it's not some fucking universal answer to every problem.

"The cop practiced all the correct riot procedure in handling the problem."
"Well, she was a protester so that means that he was being a fucking pig for doing that."

No, that's just illogical and it ill befits us liberals to be that way.

Also, in an atmosphere where 4 racists fuckers were already arrested for possibly contemplating assassinating Barack, it shows a lack of sensitivity to the tense situation. When your actions deliberately try to inflame the situation to try to make yourself a martyr for your cause, I have NO FUCKING SYMPATHY for you.

As a fan of a movement that was primarily started by a youthful, technologically savvy group of people who had NO experience whatsoever in these sorts of protest activity and yet somehow had the practicality and smarts to know and think, "Yeah, when we protest, we might have a brush with the law. We might want to brush up on our own local laws and legalities and know how to act so that we can still do what we do and not get hurt." (For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology)

For some reason, educating yourself on your own rights (and limits) as a citizen isn't a priority or the responsible thing to do anymore as a citizen? Just because our current government is incompetent, all of a sudden normal people (yes, cops are people too) and normal etiquette can't be observed or considered?

Give me a fucking break.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eshfemme]

151. Great, accuse me of being a RWer when I'm just being practical. You don't respond to any of my logic

and just resort to insulting me. That really helps you. :sarcasm:

I would also say that this sort of ad hominem attack as an automatic response to anything that challenges your view is actually more reminiscent of the right wing than anything you accuse me of.

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eshfemme]

158. Yes, way to insult me. Somehow this is appropriate just because you disagree with me? You can't

debate with me just on the merit of your argument and instead need to resort to this. I'm not sure what your grudge is against just because I happen to say that in this particular case, the protester went too far and the immediate cries of "Pig" goes too far. But it's basically telling me you are too paranoid.

I would say that your overreaction and your insult is really just a mirror of yourself. If that's the best you can do, I feel sad for you. Everyone in the world is just against you. You're just surrounded by right wingers who can't think and who you're just smarter than because you're the only one who can be right, huh? That's a great way of looking at the world. :sarcasm:

[DevonRex]

163. The protesters have a responsibility to listen to the police and to

do what they're asked to do. Especially after those guys were caught with guns and ammunition. For the most part, if people do what the police ask them to do, there will be no trouble.

Cops are human and sometimes make mistakes. But so do protesters.

[Raineyb]

338. That's not really true

The police have been known to deliberately give conflicting orders to protesters for the sole purpose of rounding them up to get them off the streets. They've lied in police reports to claim that protesters have assaulted them when in fact the opposite is true. They've deliberately surrounded protesters then start shooting pepper spray at them knowing that the people can't get away. That's the reason why seasoned protesters wear eye goggles or gas masks which the police have also started targeting. There are always protesters at these events and it looks as if each police department tries to see who can go the farthest in violating people's first amendment rights without being called out on it.

It is not abnormal for people at protests to call out the police during an arrest and the fact that the police are in riot gear doesn't mean all that much. The police always dress up in riot gear looking for trouble at protests then proceed to start something to justify the spending on the gear.

In NYC during the RNC the police just started rounding up people for no reason at all. There were people who found themselves in police custody for the crime of going to the store in the wrong neighborhood. One minute you're walking down the street, the next an orange tarp was thrown on you and you were hauled off to jail. Four years later there are still lawsuits underway. (Most of the charges against the protesters in NYC were thrown out or dropped BTW because the video showed that the cops were lying their asses off.)

I am not remotely inclined to give the police the benefit of the doubt. They've lost that a long time ago.

On a side note, isn't this the same Denver police department that had been spying on the anti-war groups illegally for years and still refuse to give up the records?

I'd suggest checking out Democracy Now! for coverage of the protests. It's probably the only place where it'll be discussed at length.

Regards

[Joe Chi Minh]

120. I couldn't see the clip, because it kept being broken up by the message,

"Film loading" flashing on and off every couple of seconds, across the screen. Probably more time obscuring the screen, for that matter.

[goodgd_yall]

127. It does that

You just need to try again. I was able to view it uninterrupted a few times, but sometimes it broke up quite a bit.

[Joe Chi Minh]

335. Thanks. It worked fine the second time.

[goodgd_yall]

214. Try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfISlq1gzK8

[RetroLounge]

165. And the usual cop defenders circle jerk themselves

:puke:

RL

[Danger Mouse]

169. And the usual cop haters circle jerk themselves.

:puke:

EH

[RetroLounge]

170. Oh look. It's you...

:eyes:

RL

[Danger Mouse]

173. Do you have anything to contribute to this thread other than superiority and snark?

[RetroLounge]

174. Nope. It's all I have...

and after reading your posts throughout the primary, it's something you should be used to.

RL

[Danger Mouse]

175. I'm wounded. Really.

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonobo]

198. I would like to meet that fucker without his uniform on. nt

[followthemoney]

177. Police Riot

Nothing changes. There is no progress.

The net result of the Enlightenment is that the enlightened put on paper hats and cry,"We are now enlightened. Let's go beat up the unenlightened!"

Other than a change in vocabulary, the Dark Ages rule.

[demikseven]

182. welcome to the police state

and if mccain is in office it's only only gonna get worse

[WeDidIt]

236. THAT IS A BLATANT OUTRIGHT LIE!

The woman was nearly rioting.

She could ahve complied with teh order to back up and nothing would ahve happened. She chose not to. What happened was HER FAULT 100%!

[Bonobo]

247. Ha ha. Losing it now, I see. What do you have so invested in this illusion?

This illusion of might = right. Why so deep into it?

[Barrymores Ghost]

305. You're becoming an unwitting self-parody of an authoritarian goon in denial...

...just thought you might want to check your meds, hoss.

[followthemoney]

324. Silly authoritarian squiggles on my screen.

I will brush you away like a fly.

[shagsak]

358. you are absolutely right

Keep telling the truth. People will continue to attack and refuse to see the truth. That is their right.

[New Dawn]

188. The irony is that...

Basically all of the people supporting the cops in this thread would be screaming with American exceptionalist outrage if the same event occurred in another country (e.g. China, Russia, etc).

[proud2BlibKansan]

202. Or at the RNC

Just wait till next week and watch the outrage here over cops in St Paul.

[proud2BlibKansan]

189. Check out this video on Robert Greenwald's site:

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/50227-police-trap-peaceful-protesters-in-denver

[moriah]

200. It's a crying shame, all right.

I don't agree with them that they feel they must protest the Democrats as well as the Republicans, but they feel that both sides contributed to the war, if not by choosing to go to war, by capitulating to Bush's demands.

It's a common tactic to surround a group, then give an order to disperse.

If a person stays, they are arrested for failing to disperse.

If they try to get away, they can't. If they are pushed by others who are trying to get away and accidentally bump part of the cop line, they're arrested for assaulting an officer. And the officers refuse to allow people who are trying to disperse the ability to leave.

The ones wearing goggles and kerchefs were the ones who were seasoned protesters most likely -- they know if a cop puts on a mask that they better put on some kind of face covering over their mouth and nose, and try to get some eye protection.

And then in some cities they are arrested for covering their faces.

[Crooked Moon]

195. horrible

it's clear from the video that the level of violence used was disproportionate.

it's also quite disappointing to see, from many responses, at what cost an almost kneejerk closing-of-ranks is achieved.

it's time to support the candidate and be a unified party, but if we become something other than the party we claim to be—and this can be occur, incrementally, to such a degree that it almost happens unconsciously—then what exactly are we closing ranks to defend?

[Bonobo]

197. If you want to see the real damage done in the last 8 years, read this thread and THINK.

Why is that level of brutality accepted even here?

Because we have all been terrorized, victimized, scrutinized and paralyzed by the Bush Regime.

Fucking embarrassing and sad.

[Danger Mouse]

250. Brutality? Again I ask, wtf was the cop supposed to do?

She was not injured.

[Bonobo]

259. He could have pushed her down without that degree of force. Period. What's so hard about that?

You buy that "she was a threat and had to be immobilized" shit?

[Danger Mouse]

266. The degree of force used was sufficient to knock her down and wind her.

When there is an arrest going on at a protest, tensions are high, and things can get ugly. If this one woman is left alone, and continues to interfere and taunt, others might join her. The situation then gets more unsafe for everybody involved. In order to prevent that, the cop helped her move forcefully, such that she would not be right back in the cop's face continuing to interfere. If he had hit her in the side of the head or struck her with the side of the baton, I would understand saying it was brutality.

[Bonobo]

271. Well then that is where we disagree. I see no need to have hit her that hard and I saw

no evidence that she was given enough time to get out of the way.

As you say, tempers run high. But police are only given the power to use "sufficient" force for the situation, not excessive.


I saw excessive force. You apparently say "sufficient" force.

However, the cop was in riot gear and carrying heavy weapons, so I fail to see how it was justified and I think you are stretching.

[Danger Mouse]

272. I have to thank you for disagreeing with me respectfully.

I have been called all kinds of names on this thread for my position.
Just wanted to say I appreciated the civility. :hi:

[Bonobo]

276. It's okay.

[dionysus]

339. at risk of sounding like i am a cop defender, which i usually am not,

if you watch it with the volume high, you can hear that he tells her to move back, and shoves her with the baton. she then says "why don't you do it again", then he knocks her to the ground.

I can't agree with what the porker did, but he clearly was provoked into it...

[Mother Of Four]

281. Bonobo = totally cool :D

Was just reading over everything, just wanted to say that :D

[Bonobo]

317. You are soooo sweet to say that.

I have had such a bad time on the internets recently. You have no idea. We're talking personal shock drama.

Thank you, sweet woman, for taking the time to say that. I feel honored and grateful. And better than I did before.

Thanks.

[Name removed]

199. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

201. Me too

I just watched it again. He really shoved her hard. There was no reason for that. Then there is another woman a cop grabs by the arm.

This is just repulsive. I do not understand at all how anyone can defend thug cops.

[Bonobo]

210. 3. This is where I part company with the boot-licking sheep on DU.

[goodgd_yall]

216. 4. It's incredible

But as you or another poster stated upthread, it's what this country has come to after 8 years of Bush/Chency.

[WeDidIt]

235. Uh, that "other woman" was the first woman

After she had been lawfully ordered to leave the area.

She chose to stay, and as you could see, she was not injured by the technique used to force her into compliance with the lawful order to back up.

You need to learn a bit about reality. The cop did his job. Anybody complaining about it is ignorant of reality.

[proud2BlibKansan]

286. Quit being insulting

I understand reality perfectly. Like the reality that this thug who calls himself a public servant first shoved and then grabbed an unarmed woman.

But please keep defending him. Your remarks speak volumes.

[WeDidIt]

291. Nio, you really don't

You are living in a dream world if you think anybody other than the woman is to blame for what happened.

[proud2BlibKansan]

306. you have said that about 100 times in this thread

Does repetition make it a reality?

[Bonobo]

287. Sometimes reality sucks and is fought by those with moral courage.

I may take up the fight when I can. You never will I think.

[RollWithIt]

204. Gonna take the middle road on this one.....

The woman was wrong for not following police command and I believe she's cursing "fucking do it again!" just before the cop steps in.

The cop is wrong for pushing her so hard with the baton. In fact, its more like a hit and not a push. He also did not follow procedure when he left her lying on the ground. Proper procedure is a group of officers to pass over anyone down on the ground and push bystanders out of the way. The worst part is that he left but then he came back to arrest her afterwards instead of on the spot.

[Bonobo]

212. Different cop arrested her when he saw her exercising her power of free speech about the brutality.

Can't have anyone actually documenting that shit now can we?

[RollWithIt]

219. Well, like I said, I'm taking the middle road on this problem....

She's clearly antagonizing police into arresting her or creating some incident. I personally think the proper way for the cops to handle it was as soon as she stepped forward instead of moving back she should have been arrested and booked for disorderly conduct. She'd cool her heals in jail, get the media interviews she wanted a few hours later.

[WeDidIt]

237. The different cop arrested her for her failure to leave when ordered to do so

The first cop ordered her to leave.She chose to say.

She got arested and deserved it. It's an open and shut case.

[Bonobo]

240. Asinine. nt

[WeDidIt]

242. Yes, she most certainly was

and she ended up going to jail for being so asinine.

[Bonobo]

244. You should join the force. You sound like the right type. nt

[Chloroplast]

223. The woman was testing the police and ended up getting schooled.

After the arrests of the alleged assassins, the cops aren't taking chances. Protesting is their right but when tensions are high, you have to be extremely careful that your enthusiasm for your cause isn't seen as adding to a volatile situation. I hope she's okay because the cop knocked her the fuck OUT; my chest hurts just looking at that video.

[symbolman]

228. THEY CANNOT OVERPOWER A WOMAN? Got Mace?

What, was she a WEIGHT LIFTER? Armed?

This is bullshit. You can arrest, cuff someone and drag them off for interfering with an arrest.

You don't BLUDGEON a WOMAN.

This is Storm Trooper BULLSHIT.

No Excuses.

[WeDidIt]

238. Sotrryu, Symbolman., you're wrong on this one

The cops were 100% in the right.

[Bonobo]

243. So how come you are the only one who seems to think so? You're all alone, pal.

You are deeply invested in the illusion that everything police do is acceptable.

You seem not to be able to distinguish between what is moral and what is immoral.

That is the basis for all laws. It is NOT a chicken and egg thing with morality, pal. Police are supposed to serve and protect, not unprofessionally allow their anger to blow up and feel free to meet out punishment when they feel justified by the letter of the law to do so.

[LittleClarkie]

260. No he's not the only one

At the least I'm not willing to assume that every cop is a pig.

And no I don't believe he's expressing that everything police do is acceptable. That's kind of sad if that's the only way you can win an argument is to take his side to the extreme and put words in his mouth.

The truth is likely somewhere down the middle anyway. Probably the cop could have used less force and pushed rather than bunting the girl, and perhaps also she could have backed the fuck up and not said "Fucking do it again!"

But there are those in this thread who DO think that everything police do is unacceptable, that every cop is a pig. That's nuts to me. That's bigotry, to assume the actions of some mean that an entire group of people are scum. And if this person has some knowledge of the techniques used, then there is certainly nothing wrong with him sharing his opinion of the policeman's actions with us without being called a freeper or a fascist or whatever. He has that right on DU.

Meanwhile what would being all alone have to do with any discussion you might be having with him? So if someone is in the minority they are wrong?

People have the right to peacefully protest. Somehow Code Pink doesn't strike me as the kind of folks who do much of anything "peacefully". The louder the better, the more ruckus the better, the more media coverage the better. And some of those I have seen blog on their experiences with the police have shown a certain bias against cops in general. I can only imagine if you carry around the mentality that cops are pigs, and act accordingly, you're going to manage to get yourself into trouble quite often.

[Barrymores Ghost]

248. Well, I hope she calls a lawyer to sort this out...

...because I'll bet there will plenty ready to take her case pro bono.

I'd love it if that cop is left homeless after this is all over.

[WeDidIt]

252. She'll need a lawyer

There will be multiple charges against her and they have it on tape.

[Barrymores Ghost]

255. You really seem to enjoy this.

I wonder why that is?

[Danger Mouse]

254. On what grounds? Go on. This should be amusing.

[Barrymores Ghost]

257. I'll leave it to the lawyers, Slappy.

We all must have hope, eh?

You seem to hope that mouthy liberal women get slapped around by cops more often.

[Danger Mouse]

261. She wasn't just mouthy, she was interfering with an arrest and taunting a cop.

The cop responded with force, but not excessive force. If you are interfering with an arrest and told to step back, it's in your best interest to step back and not to keep talking shit.

[Bonobo]

265. Sorry, this is where pragmastism and cowardice meet in my eyes.

[Danger Mouse]

270. So if you are at the scene of an arrest, and the police officers tell you to step back many times...

you should stand there anyway, because what the fuck, anything goes?

[Bonobo]

273. Not at all.

I am merely responding to the weak argument that she got what she deserved because she "should have known better -cops act like that."

In my mind that is no justification for that kind of police brutality.

Still, a culture gets what it deserves I suppose. It wouldn't happen like that in many cultures. It would in others.

Still, some of us wish to maintain our ideals and work towards making reality conform to it, rather than people (you?) who accept things no matter how wrong they are and conform themselves to it. Thus becoming "part of the problem".

I have nothing else to say I guess.

[Danger Mouse]

279. I think that our society has a kind of hard-on for punishment and justice

going back to our puritan hard-edged fire-and-brimstone roots. The drug war, and our insanely high incarceration rate, attest to that. We are a sick society in that regard.
Perhaps when I look at that video and see nothing wrong with the cop's action, it is because I have become numbed to what our society is.
I hope that's not the case, but maybe it is.
I think a lot needs to change in the fundamental way in which our society metes out justice. This is very difficult...we have to change a mentality from the ground up, but I think it's possible. We need to get away from retribution as justice and more towards rehabilitation.

[Bonobo]

283. We have come to agreement. Only a sliver of daylight separates our feelings, I think.

The rest is reaction to screaming on this board.

It makes us harden our positions and close our minds.

Thanks for the "DIALOGUE" (a 2-way street).

You are a reasonable person and I enjoyed reaching agreement with you.

[Danger Mouse]

311. Thanks! Same to you.

I had an argument with a conservative friend of mine that turned very ugly because she resorted to personal attacks right away...that sort of thing is why discussion so often breaks down on DU...we too quickly go for the jugular and soon nobody is thinking straight.

[Barrymores Ghost]

290. She wasn't doing jack-shit to the cops when he yanked her arm...

...out of its socket and dragged her to the paddy-wagon, friend. She HAD stepped back, and she was simply standing in the center of a group of reporters. Seems to me the cop didn't like the fact that he was about to become the focus of their journalistic endeavors.

But, yeah, I can certainly see how that's what qualifies for "interfering with an arrest" in some people's eyes...

:eyes:

Personally, I think that Code Pink, while well-intentioned, is an unwitting self-parody of anachronistic, circa-60's clown theatre. I think they come off like loons and idiots, much of the time. But at least they've got the courage to get out in front of the charge. I just wish there were a few more brave-hearted fucking souls left in this party willing to put their money and their bodies where their mouths are.

[moriah]

292. So taunting a police officer is a crime?

Please tell me where she was interfering with an arrest. I can't find where she was interfering with an arrest at all.

The order was "back away from the vehicle". I did not see anyone else being arrested at the time, nor in the shot when they panned to where she was.

And I really don't think any court would see telling a reporter that someone was being arrested is interfering with an arrest.

[Chloroplast]

262. Right? I'm reading the comments and sexism is leaping through the screen.

I'm a woman and don't see anything wrong with what the officer did. Maybe the woman expected to be treated differently because of her sex but she was in for a HUGE surprise. She could get an attorney willing to argue that the officer used excessive force but I don't see her winning; I saw her as interfering with the police's work, so you can imagine what the DA will try to put on her.

[Danger Mouse]

268. Most likely she'll be fined, pay it quietely, and be done with it.

Unless she WANTS to make something of it.

[Bonobo]

275. Yep, It's pointless to fight the system, Elrond.

Are you a young, beaten down defeatist or an old beaten down defeatist? No offense, but you can't give up the fight so easily.

[Danger Mouse]

278. I see no point in fighting the system if you are in the wrong.

When there was a case recently over a woman strip searched and horribly mistreated by male cops in (i think it was) Ohio, i was all over it, saying that her and her husband should sue their asses off, at the very least.
In this case, I don't feel the woman has a leg to stand on.
If the courts see it differently, then well...that's how they see it.

[Bonobo]

282. Just a little bit more civility between police and civilians in this society would be nice.

It has to start somewhere.

Why not with a higher expectation on our part for professional, non-rage filled policemen hitting people with clubs viciously?

Did you SEE his hate-contorted face? That doesn't come with the job description, man. If you can't keep it together better than that, you should find a different job.

This is terrorism on a tiny scale. Who would dare protest vociferously after seeing that? Kill one, silence a hundred.

[goodgd_yall]

269. Ya don't get it, huh?

Women are generally SMALLER and less muscular than men. And the woman in the tape was a thin little thing. The dope with the badge and a stick had an unequal advantage over her.

[Chloroplast]

289. Her size doesn't mean a thing when her mouth was big enough to get her ass arrested.

I want to make it very clear that I don't advocate police brutality in the least; I also want to mention that there has to be a buzz in Denver where the cops aren't taking chances. She was told to move back and she responded by mouthing off and standing her ground. She got back up and was told to stop or she'd be arrested; she continued and was cuffed. I could be wrong about my assessment and acknowledge that but unless the unedited tape surfaces, I'm going by what was shown. :shrug:

[goodgd_yall]

293. It's a brutal cop who slams someone for words

And a brutal cop who uses more force than is needed to get control of a situation.

Mouthing off is not a reason to be knocked to the ground and yelled to "Back it up, Bitch!" What about the cop's big ugly mouth. OK when there is a badge accomanying it?

[moriah]

294. You were shown an unedited tape?

All I can see on that one was that she was talking to a reporter when she was yanked back.

So ... .people can't talk to reporters?

Sorry, I have strong views on this subject. I may not agree with them that protesting the Democrats is the best use of their time, but if I want the right to protest, I have to protect theirs.

[Bonobo]

298. Thank you. Well said. nt

[Chloroplast]

302. I didn't say I saw an unedited tape.

I said unless the unedited tape is released, I am seeing her arrest as justifiable. He could have used less force but he was within his bounds when he arrested her.

[moriah]

308. I understand wanting to be fair to the officers.

Most cops are good people.

But at the same time.... using a baton to shove a woman down and call her a bitch at the same time really doesn't seem to me to be the actions of an officer that was fully in control of himself.

Police officers are people, too... but they are people with a great deal of power in our country, because they have to have that power to defend themselves and keep people safe. Because they are given that power, they are also given a duty to use it responsibly. They are supposed to be trained enough not to allow their emotions to get in the way of their judgment, and if they can't keep their emotions in check, they don't need to have that kind of power.

I admit that I may have a jaundiced view of police due to my experiences in New York. I've seen some things happen that I thought were well beyond reasonable or constitutional action. And in reality, the NYPD was very well trained in how to deal with protests, and it was only VERY rarely that they had to resort to OC, at least in the anti-war protests that were not related to the RNC. They would not have used a baton in that manner -- likely the officer would have had a riot shield and walked forward pushing her with it, not using it as a weapon.

I'm afraid that what we are seeing now is going to be kid stuff compared to next week, though.

[Bonobo]

297. "When her mouth was big enough to get her ass arrested". Jeezus! Listen to yourself.

You apparently believe that language warranted a violent, physical response from a police officer.

Like an abused wife that thinks she deserved being beaten because dinner shouldn't have been served cold.

[goodgd_yall]

320. ..

:thumbsup:

[Barrymores Ghost]

299. She was talking to a small group of REPORTERS...

...off to the side, and wasn't anywhere near the cop when he came back and yanked her out by her arm. What fucking tape are YOU watching?

"Her mouth was big enough to get her arrested???" Seriously? You sure you're in the right place, Sweat Pea? You sound an awful lot like you snuck in from somewhere else.

[Chloroplast]

307. Excuse me? "Sweat (sp) pea"?

What the hell is wrong with you? I watched the tape several times; if you can't tell that tape has been edited, that's on you. Don't you dare patronize me with that "sweat (sp) pea" bullshit just because I don't agree with you. And for you to even insinuate that I may have "snuck in from somewhere else" just shows how low you'd stoop if someone doesn't agree with your opinion. Just as I did, you're basing your judgment on this tape; neither of us was there yet here you are acting all high and motherfucking mighty. You must be really proud.

[Barrymores Ghost]

309. No, I'm not proud at all...I'm disgusted.

I saw the rage in that cop's face. I recognize it because I've seen it before -- up close. You obviously DO come from somewhere else. Somewhere nice and safe and cozy and warm and uncomplicated by any obligation to deal with empirical evidence that doesn't conform with your belief systems.

Oh, and the <sic> was most intentional...trust me. "Sweet" was not a benefit of the doubt that I was willing to afford you.

[Bonobo]

315. Yup, the snarling hate-filled face was not the face of competent law enforcement. nt

[Chloroplast]

316. What belief system is that? No need to tiptoe.

So what if I was provided with a 'nice and safe and cozy and warm and uncomplicated' life. I still have every right to state my opinion. She was out of line. The officer could have used less force but he had every right to arrest her. He asked her to leave and she refused. She was testing them to see what would happen and she got arrested. Plain and simple. End of story. Now please tell me about my 'belief system'.

[Bonobo]

277. Police brutality, of course.

In a civil case, she might collect.

[symbolman]

284. I've been in riots

and got regulary beat and imprisioned under terrible conditions years ago when I got out of the military, so I've seen pretty much every circumstance up to lethal force, and this was way out of line.

You give a cop an inch and he'll take a mile, of all the people in our society THEY are the ones that need to be kept in check, but now that bush is in they run wild.

Repectfully disagree here.

[Bonobo]

288. Bless you, Symbolman. Wish we had about 10,000 more of you.

Your spirit moves me. Always.

[symbolman]

337. Im glad

Jesus, if people would get it together.. I've actually seen crowds "take people Away" from cops before, Save them..

Whenever I've seen abuse I've had to say something on the spot, got me in a lot of hot water, but I've also made friends for Life that way, who never stop talking about it :)

You CAN stand up to cops folks, better when a crowd does it.. We just don't protect our brothers and sisters anymore, stick up for each other, hold others up from harm.. It's a crying shame..

I like you too Bo ;)

[mmonk]

321. Women in pink dress are so very threatening to those batton wielding

police.

[TexasObserver]

323. 1 she will be acquitted 2 she will have the officer investigated and 3 she will sue and collect $

That's my prediction.

The hardest part of any case against police is getting around their lying. Only a video tape can prove the cop is a liar and was committing a breach of his duties. He'll lie, his fellow officers will lie, the prosecutor will lie, and you'll never beat that without video.

With video, the cop and his cohorts are proved to be lying thugs. The cop will be proved out of control and worthy of punishment or removal. And his department will end up paying civil damages, as they should.

[AuntPatsy]

326. Unneccessary force...and I support the law but I DONT support abusing

the power of having the law on your side and it's clear to me after watching this video that the police officer does not deserve to be on the force...I can't believe anyone in their right mind would condone this behavior..sickening

[Bonobo]

328. And they condoned it based on an idiotic concept they call "Standard Operating Procedure".

"By the book" you will hear them say.

No different than "following orders".

[AuntPatsy]

329. Thats bullshit, for people to not understand that police officers are human

beings like you and I and are as you and I subject to bad judgement and anger mangagement problems is deplorable..some people seriously believe the police to be some sort of gods, its amazing that they feel they cannot do any wrong

[Bonobo]

330. Yup, its the flip side of demonizing every one. Both are really mistaken.

I have lived in a country where the Police and Populace have a good relationship. It's really nice.

[AuntPatsy]

332. Well believe it or not our family had a run in with a bad cop who later on down the line

was called in on us when I was in a hospital last year, I almost die, had a hole in my stomach, I was in a lot of pain and they would not see me, my husband and son were fit to be tied...they began making lots of ummm noise, the police were called, the same police officer that had a bad one with my son was the one that showed up..believe it or not, he and my son became friends that night, he is only human and though they can be wrong sometimes they can be right, he is as we are human and the first time he acted without thinking, the second time he used his brains...all is well,

[Bonobo]

334. Great story, Aunty!

We're all human. But the thing is, cops MUST BEAR more responsibility because they have more power.

[Expose_the_RW_Idiots]

331. Now the gestapo ...

Now the gestapo covers their asses by charging her with assualting a police officer,

[TexasObserver]

340. True. They make the arrest to try to beat the lawsuit and complaints of brutality.

And if there is no videotape, the lies the police tell would prevail.

[The Sushi Bandit]

341. I think she is still in jail

[kwenu]

344. I'd like to know the other side. She was giving lip at the beginning instead of moving.

However, the later arrest seems questionable unless she went back to being obstructionist. This video is clearly edited to a point of view so I can't tell.

[Chloroplast]

349. Thank you! I don't know how anyone can't tell the video has been edited.

[moriah]

356. I don't see an edit. I see....

... the videographer is backing away, originally focused on the "vehicle" that people are being told to back off from.

He hears the person next to him (the protester) say "Fucking do it again". He starts turning toward the scene.

You clearly see smooth movement at this part of the shot. You see him being panned to.

Now, there WAS an edit after she had been on the ground, it doesn't show anything else of what happened between when she was knocked down and the shot of when she was talking to a reporter.

----------

I replayed this several times on Youtube, but I started at the beginning each time. I did notice I was getting an odd pause at a certain point when I had just moved it back a few seconds instead of starting over from the very beginning. But when the video is going from beginning to end the pause is not there, so I think it's an artifact of my video player.

Again... "contempt of cop" is not illegal.

Police officers are supposed to be trained to not respond to taunting or let their emotions get in the way of their judgment. We give them a great deal of power, because they need that power in order to protect themselves and us. Yes, they are people too, but a person who cannot keep their emotions in check during a stressful situation does not need to have that power.

Knocking someone to the ground and calling them a hateful name at the same time is a demonstration that this officer was acting on emotion, not judgment. I would still be unhappy that an officer knocked a protester to the ground in that fashion even if all he said was "Back it up!" But adding "bitch" in there definitely shows that he had let his emotion get to him.

If you've read much about this story, you know the Denver Police Department agrees with me on this. This particular officer will not be working any more of the protests.

The officer is probably a good person. Most are. But he doesn't have the self-control necessary to deal with this kind of situation, so I'm glad they have taken him off such a stressful assignment.

[pass378]

348. Too much force

If she was too close and didn't move back, arrest her. That was assault, plain and simple.

[bdamomma]

355. Free Speech I don't think so.

this from Raw Story

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Protesters_denied_access_to_attorneys_forced_0828.html


Protesters denied access to attorneys, forced to march in leg shackles, ACLU charges

[goodgd_yall]

359. UPDATE on this story

Update here: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/27/codepink-optomist-after-release-jail/

And more on the story here: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/27/protester-video-says-officer-hit-her-four-times/