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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 08:23 AM
Original message
Wow! (Part #2)
{1} "After Obama and I slipped through a security checkpoint and he momentarily broke free from the entourage, I sidled up to him and told him he seemed to be impressing many people of influence in this rarified atmosphere.

"Obama, his gaze fixed directly ahead, never broke his stride.

" ‘I’m LeBron, baby,’ he replied, referring to Lebron James, the phenomenally talented teenager who at the time was shooting the lights out in the National Basketball Association. ‘I can play at this level. I got some game.’"
--David Mendell; Obama: From Promise to Power; 2007; page 2.

This summer, I had some dealings with a man who works with investments, banking, and insurance. He is a fiscal conservative, and a social moderate – the type of republican that I am comfortable talking to. My goal was to find the best option for putting some money away for my daughters’ college education. During one of our meetings, he said that he was glad that I was honest about my near total ignorance about investments; most people, he noted, try to feign some degree of insight.

One of the things that life has taught me, and which I try to teach my children, is that when one approaches a topic that they really know very little about, it is better not to bluff. Rather, one benefits from developing a network of people they can trust, and to go to them when important questions arise.

In my own case, this is a necessary skill, because there are so many areas of life where my level of understanding is low indeed. Thus, in the past few says, while the McCain-Palin campaign appears to be playing games, I’ve taken the time to speak to a number of far better informed people than myself. I thought that some of the things that I’ve been told might be of interest to others on DU.


{2} "Every day the bucket a-go a well,
One day the bottom a-go drop out,
One day the bottom a-go drop out."
--Bob Marley; I Shot the Sheriff.

The financial crisis that is confronting our nation is complex. No single person understands it in its entirety. Any "expert" who pretends that they do is bluffing.

There is plenty of blame to spread around, if one wants to point fingers. But, without any question, the Bush-Cheney administration has been in control of the country’s economy for almost eight years. If the republicans in Washington really believed, for example, that the Clinton administration had created huge problems for the country, they had control of the executive and legislative branches of the federal government for six years.

In fact, even people with as limited of insight as me know that the US economy was far better under President Clinton than the current administration. We had money in the bank then, and today, we are far in debt. More, those republicans who are fiscal conservatives have been horrified by the recklessness of the Bush-Cheney administration.

A few weeks ago, I had quoted Native American attorney-author Vine Deloria, Jr., who said that the future of the United States would be a return to either the tipi or the castle. In order to survive as a Constitutional democracy, this country needs a strong middle class. Imperfect as they may have been, the Clinton administration was aware of that. But the Bush-Cheney administration is playing on a different board, where they allegiance is to a much smaller group that seeks power on a global level. That includes a willingness to sacrifice the American middle class.

Is the Bush-Cheney bail-out proposal "socialism"? That’s a loaded word, which has different meanings in different contexts. However, the administration’s proposal – which requires creating an atmosphere of high anxiety and panic – involves having the "government" (or, tax-payers) assume the debts, rather than the profits, of the ruling class elite. And the truth is the bottom is falling out of the middle class bucket.

Those republicans who are fiscal conservatives recognize that there is no single "good answer" to the problems we face. Although they are not saying so publicly, many realize the only alternative with promise for the future of our country is to have a limited fix now, and for Barack Obama to win the election, and to institute more meaningful changes during his first year as President.

This growing divide within the republican party brings us to one of the reasons that the McCain-Palin campaign is seeking to delay the presidential and vice presidential debates.

{3} "A house divided against itself cannot stand."
--President Abraham Lincoln; June 16, 1858.

When I first heard that John McCain was demanding that Barack Obama join him in suspending the presidential campaign, and delay their first debate, my reaction could be summed up in one word: "Wow." Did the McCain campaign recognize that their candidate was functioning at so low a level, that they needed to postpone the series of debates between McCain and Obama?

This is partially true. However, as with all of politics, there are other levels beneath the surface that deserve closer attention. A year ago, many republicans were only vaguely familiar with Barack Obama. They believed that he was an electrifying public speaker, but little more. The belief that he had been groomed by a relatively small, liberal group of democrats, who had erred in attempting to advance his career by entering him in the democratic primary contest, was shared by many republicans. Those who knew more about him thought that the idea was to have him be considered as Senator Hillary Clinton’s choice for vice president.

One of the main reasons for their lack of insight regarding Obama was because those running his campaign ran a closed operation. There was less access to his inner circle than to any of the other top democratic candidates. Still, then as now, every political campaign has some degree of information leaks at the second tier of the campaign. So today, the republican party in general is aware that Barack Obama is not simply a good public speaker, who is being promoted by a small group of Chicago-area liberals. In fact, he has political skills that have been unequaled by any politician – democrat or republican – in the past 40 years, with the obvious exception of Bill Clinton.

Just as when Obama was a community organizer in Chicago, and recognized that in order to reach the goals he was aiming for, he needed to become an attorney, the republicans in Washington realize that Obama has goals that he can only institute by becoming President. These goals are not only his as an individual, or those of that small group from Chicago, but represent the values of the majority of the American public.

And just as Obama’s primary campaign stepped up the pace in the fourth quarter of the democratic primary, the same thing is happening today. Thus, at a time when John McCain has made several tactical errors – such as saying the foundations of the economy are strong – the McCain campaign wanted to delay the first debate with Obama.

But there is more. Much more. In selecting Sarah Palin as his VP, John McCain was hoping to present the foundation of the republican party as solid. Although most of the republicans in Washington recognized that Palin required intensive grooming in order to present her as being qualified to serve as vice president, they were willing to play the game.

However, the republicans in Washington, DC, know that there are a number of seats being contested in both houses of Congress. As it became evident that Palin was not capable of feigning the skills needed to be vice president, those republicans running for re-election became increasingly concerned. Some quietly advocated that McCain actually replace her on the ticket, despite knowing the obvious damage it would do to John McCain. But John McCain is stubborn at best, and he was unwilling to consider dropping her, because it would eliminate any chance of his being elected in November.

It is, of course, far too late to replace Sarah Palin. That has resulted in a fracture beneath the surface in the republican party. Close to half of those republicans running for re-election are less than happy about being associated with the McCain-Palin ticket.

One person asked me to consider how the public will respond to seeing how uniquely unqualified Palin is when she debates Joseph Biden? Take this the next step, he said: should by some chance McCain wins in November, and then Palin becomes President, what are the implications for the country? Is it rational to believe, for example, that the military leadership would view her extremely shallow views on foreign policy as safeguarding the republic?

We are at a strange time in our nation’s history. President Bush is attempting to interject a sense of panic into the national discussion of the economic crisis. A significant number of republicans in Congress are breaking away from him. And a significant number of republicans are willing to break from the McCain-Palin ticket. John McCain is desperately trying to take both sides of the internal republican divide, and as a result, his campaign is failing.

Is it any wonder that he wants to avoid tonight’s presidential debate?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. I Seriously Hope McCain doesn't Show Up...
it will kill his campaign...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. He is at
a crossroads: one choice is a serious error, the other a bad mistake. As Woody Allen says, let us hope that he has the wisdom to make the right choice.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. A famous baseball player once said
when you come to a fork in the road, take it.
I have a feeling McCain will try to follow this advice.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. i hope he stays home in bed
and when barack gives a speech off the cuff, and takes questions from the audience, gramps realizes that he can just sit it out.
and really, who will notice, much less complain? an empty chair is the perfect representation of the campaign, anyway.

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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Then we should hope he does show up, no?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I sure hope
that McCain shows up.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. either way, it's a lose lose for him...
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. You got it-- I'm feeling optimistic. First time in a long, long while
Now if only we could get that voting mess straightened out...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Update .....
I have had some communication this morning with one of the smart people good enough to take the time to talk to me. She said that the general impression this morning is that the McCain campaign is in real trouble.

She also suggested that DUers might find this article from the 9-22 NY Times of interest:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html?_r=2&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

(I hope the link works; it is an article from the World Business section by Carter Doughtery, about how Sweden handled a similar crisis.)
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. that article should be its own thread...
...so it could be rec'd for best page.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Good idea.
Do you want to post it, or should I? (If I post it, and others ask serious questions, I'm really not qualified to speak on financial issues.)
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. There's already an OP on the NYT Swedish banks article that could use some K & Rs.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. I am wondering if all of these countervailing currents and Dobsian complexities is
going to have a sudden impact on McCain's health.

He seems to be aging years for each week now.


(glad to see you here)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I really believe it is.
Stress is not recommended for those with McCain's medical history. I think that he not only has looked old and tired, but that his behavior is of real concern.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. and evidently stress is not good for the rest of us trying to follow all of this as well
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Right.
I do not think that even the creative minds behind Mad Magazine could come up with the answers for the McCain campaign.
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bulldogge Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Haha
I had a quick picture of McCain with a toothy smile next to a little bubble that says "What me worry?"
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. OMFG!!@@!! stop with the meaningless titles!
:hide:

I was KIDDING!

:loveya:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Now,
where have I heard that before?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. See part #1 !
Edited on Fri Sep-26-08 10:24 AM by Marrah_G
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. But
I was instructed not to!?!?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. ~thudd~
There you go, blowing up what was left of my flu-addled mind............

MEDIC!!!!!!!
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bulldogge Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. The thing
that strikes me is this is simply another example of the current administration lying to the American Public, remember just a few weeks/months ago people were saying "Thank God the economy is not as bad as you read in the newspaper every day." (Gramm). For months they kept telling us that it was all in our heads and not our pocket books and wallets and now they come barreling in saying that we have a week to push through a 700 billion dollar bailout or else the worst is yet to come. This administration is built on deceit. This bailout is an example of the "me first" attitude that has been rotting our foundation since at least the Reagan years, if not longer. 700 Billion $ is a ridiculous amount of money, it is the gross national product of some european country's! I am not a financial expert myself but there is a part of me that thinks that in the current state of capitalism in our society this is an expected result, mom and pop stores have been shutting down left and right for 15 years in my neck of the woods who bailed them out? Now that it is the big boys their buddies from the business lunches they want to step in. I thought the republicans were the party of "less government"? 700 Billion seems like an awful lot of governing to me.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. A hundred billion here,
a hundred billion there .... to a lot of us, that begins to sound like a lot of money.

If my wife and I were sitting across from each other at the table when we were paying bills, and I demanded even $700 to bail me out, I imagine she might ask where the $700 I was short had gone. And if I said that it was too great a crisis to ask where it had gone, much less where the $700 I was demanding would be going, she would be likely to say there needed to be a little oversight as far as my spending and book-keeping goes.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
21. McCain to debate tonight.
This should be fascinating.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. I have never seen anything like this in my entire life.
The sheer bizarreness that is the McCain campaign and the utter contempt they have for EVERYONE (the American people, the media, even Wall Street)... I still ask myself how in the hell can they still be "competitive."

Obama (and by extension the Democrats) has successfully linked McCain and Bush. The next step is to link every single downticket Republican up for election to the McCain/Palin-style of incompetence and incoherence. Every voter should look at the "R" on their ballot and think "hell NO!"

The meeting at the WH called by Bush was played perfectly by Democrats. Obama was masterful in calling the Republicans' bluff and exposing their bad intentions. The Republican party is twitching and we need to go in for the kill.

I watched the appearance of Rahm Emanuel on Countdown and saw the Dodd/Frank press conference. Democrats are angry and they seem to be fed up with the Rovian shenanigans. They are standing together and I think this unity from the top of our leadership (Obama, Reid, Pelosi) on down is completely and totally on board in a way I haven't seen in a long time.

I'm truly confident that we will prevail and get a decent bill passed that saves the industry and gives the taxpayers an equity stake in these companies. Or, the Republicans will continue to obstruct and no bill will pass which will either cause our economy to tank or prove the economists that think no bailout plan is necessary right.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Right.
I have mixed feelings about Rahm Emanuel. Last night, he showed the side of himself that I think highly of. I thought he was very impressive. I've always had a higher opinion of both Dodd and Frank, but when Emanuel is on target, I think he is one of the strongest voices in Washington, DC.

The election should definitely be about issues, not personalities. However, I suspect that tonight, John McCain's personality will be displayed io a most unattractive manner.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
27. When Bob Schieffer Says On The Morning Show
That at the bottom of this mess was a plan to try and scuttle the veep debates you know there is trouble in paradise. And whose bright idea was it to put her on the ticket? People say McLame is usually good at debate but now that he has shot himself in the foot, how do you think he will do tonight?

And let's not forget his snub of Letterman, that has done him more harm than I think they ever imagined. What were they thinking?



* Am I living in the Twilight Zone? I go to give this most excellent read a 'must read' and find that system gone and no explanation from Skinner. What happened?
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. lol... there's a thread around here somewhere by Skinner, addressing that.
:hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. I believe that
Bob Schieffer was repeating what a number of republican sources were saying off the record.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. One more time:
"McCain is a loose cannon. He has commendably defied his party on campaign finance, but he is also capable of bizarre behavior. Recently, speaking at a Republican dinner, he told the following so-called joke: why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? because she is the illegitimate child of Hillary Clinton and Janet Reno. This plus his reputedly wayward sex life will surely destroy his evident presiential ambitions."
-- Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.; Journals; November 2, 1998.

Remember this quote from Schlesinger's journals tonight. When under stress, McCain is not known for thinking before engaging in angry outbursts. He does not have a high frustration level. And he is under pressure as he enters tonight's debate.

His party is not providing him with the level of support he demands; the public is not finding his "soulmate" Sarah Palin as attractive a VP candidate as he does; the media is not helping him; and Obama easily handled his "suspend the campaign" gimmick.

Tonight should be interesting.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. That Joke
which was barely reported at the time was mentioned once on MSNBC. Ever since I've thought of him as a nasty little man and wondered how, knowing him capable of such cruelty, the msm could allow themselves to be his poodles.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Here's Another Joke For You
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I can't get
the link to work.

Enjoy the debate tonight. And keep in mind this is expected to be McCain's best showing.
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