Funny that nobody will come out and say it...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Obama and the Democratic leadership support the bail-out.

The welt of posts and replies and results of DU polls suggest about 80% of DUers oppose it.

DU has become your one-stop shop for praise of deranged Republican ideologues. Shelby, Dobbs, Mike Pence... Jim-fucking-BUNNING??? (There are even 'thank you House Republicans' threads.)

John McCain is a major obstacle to the bill. But nobody has the guts to just come out and say "John McCain is wonderful for scuttling the bill." That would put entirely too fine a point on it.

This is the weirdest period in DU history.

It shouldn't fall to me, of all people, to defend our nominee but I'm proud to do it...

Obama is right. DU is wrong.

[annabanana]

1. It's all in the details silly

With the kind of leverage we have now it would be a shame to waste it...

[madaboutharry]

3. McCain is not for it at this point because it

puts to much regulation and restrictions into the mix. He still wants to protect his Wall Street shills.

[KittyWampus]

12. McCain isn't for or against anything in reality except finding a platform to make a scene from.

[madaboutharry]

16. Yeah, you're probably right. In order

to be for or against something you need to first have some principles.

Today, Eugene Robinson called him a Drama Queen.

[sharp_stick]

2. I think 80% is a bit high

but other than that, I agree with you. On another positive note, it looks like McLames meddling is costing him big time. I think everyone hates that prick now.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. I'm relying only on the many DU polls

I should have said 80% of those who want to register an opinion.

[fed_up_mother]

4. McCain is just sticking his finger in the wind. Obama is doing what he "thinks" is right

Even if you disagree with him.

[Barack_America]

5. I support the bailout.

As long as the Dems get some serious regulation and tax payer protection written into it.

Spending $3000 on increased regulation for Wall Street might just be the best $3000 I've ever spent.

In fact, I'm going to call my Senators and Representative to let them know this.

[dsomuah]

6. I don't think it's republican to oppose the bailout

A lot of people on both sides of the aisle oppose the bailout. Calling me a republican for opposing the bailout would be like if I called you a republican because you support the bailout and so does GWB.

[renie408]

8. I support the bailout. I don't like it, but I support it. Are you sure you are not

confusing resentment at being forced into NEEDING to bailout Wall Street with opposition to the bailout?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. There have been any number of DU polls.

I am not talking about folks who are unhappy about it (I am) or want different elements in it (I do).

I'm talking about fervent opposition to the plan on a conceptual basis.

[renie408]

25. I missed those, I guess. I didn't see those results. Not doubting you...

I skip a lot of DU polls, so I must have missed those that showed the DU was 80% anti-bailout.

[Overseas]

9. Some Republicans are following the Gingrich Plan

But Democrats have worked more controls into the Paulson plan and won't pass it without substantial Republican commitment.

Link & clip on Gingrich recommendations:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/gingrich-mccain.html

If McCain were to come out against the bailout plan, Gingrich said that Republicans would rally to his side and it would become possible for the McCain-Palin ticket to style itself as "taking on the Bush-Obama establishment."

"Either McCain is going to go along" with Obama in supporting the plan, said Gingrich, "in which case the establishment will have the fix in . . . or you are going to see McCain decide, much in the way that he did in picking Palin, that, in fact, he is a genuine maverick, that he genuinely defends the taxpayers, and that this is a terrible bill."

"If the latter happens," Gingrich continued, "I think you will see the emergence overnight of a 'McCain Reform Wing of the Republican Party' and you'll see House and Senate members siding with McCain by overwhelming margins and then you'll be in a very different political environment. You'll have 'Bush-Obama ads' on the one side and 'taking on the Bush-Obama establishment' on the other side, and that will be, frankly, one of the more amazing elections."

[kirby]

17. "Set the capital gains to 0% matching the Chinese and Singapore"

Newt, you are an idiot. Let me explain something to you. When your company needs a bailout because they need to take 700 Billion in losses, there ARE NO CAPITAL GAINS. A gain is when you make a profit, you fool.

The other points of your plan are lunacy, except the #4 (alternative energy)

[Curtland1015]

10. I too, support it, even if I don't like it.

Please don't lump us all into one imaginary entity.

[kirby]

11. Actually I think 80% of the public or more is against it...

This might be a time where the elected officials need to show leadership. While most people are angry as hell that the deregulation political ideology has gotten us to this point, the same people will be jamming the phones asking for action if there are massive runs on the banks or people cannot get any loans at all or employers can't make payroll or peoples 401k's are wiped out.

Personally, I do not know the answer. Paulson wanted a blank check with no oversight, the Dems want to prevent disaster but are trying to add stuff like oversight and executive pay limitations. The Dems are trying to cover their asses too. Keep in mind that Dodd and Schumer were the Democratic guys who were pushing repeal of during the late Clinton years. They got their fellow Dems on board by adding the Community Reinvestment Act. So there is a lot of blame to go around to both parties.

[gateley]

14. I was one of the ones who liked what Shelby had to say -- which was basically

we shouldn't rush into this emotionally but take the time to ensure we're not causing problems in the future.

With that statement, I still agree. Look at what we'd have if they rushed to approve Paulson's initial plan? I think it's a good thing that both sides balked and at least gave us a little breathing room.

BUT, since my statement about Shelby, DUers have answered my questions regarding what the real differences are between our plan and theirs.

I'm of course on the Dem side, and was all along, but now I feel better about it knowing that the Reps' plan is essentially more of the same. I should have known.

I think the support here isn't so much an endorsement of the Republicans' plan, rather than just a strong opinion that we shouldn't be doing another bail out, they'd prefer that we 'do nothing'.

I'm sure the Congress will make a move, and I'm confident that if the Dems are supportive, it will be the best solution possible in these circumstances.

[RichGirl]

15. Wonderful???

If you believe that what McCain is doing...has ANYTHING at all to do with what's best for the people, you are out of your mind! If he was against the bill then why didn't he say so when it came out, instead of pulling the "I haven't read it". Three pages he couldn't read in two days. He was simply waiting to see what the dems would do so he could do the opposite and come out like he's against Bush and the true Maverick. I can't believe that YOU would fall for his crap. He cares only about himself. And if we had the guts we'd all see how wonderful he is!!! You've got to be kidding!

As for the dems...Obama said this was a BAD BILL. He compared it to Iraq. There are no good solutions, there are only bad ones.

The difference between the two is that Obama and the dems are actually trying to do something and McCain and the republicans are playing politics as usual.

John McCain is wonderful at NOTHING but looking out for John McCain.

[IndianaJones]

18. many of these whiners will be completely shocked to see that Obama is a moderate in a year or so. nt

[kirby]

19. Why shocked? He has said since day one that he will work across the ailse...

There should be no shock.

[IndianaJones]

21. there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth here. the majority of Democrats will be happy. nt.

[Romulox]

23. DLCer Austan Goolsbee is his point man on economics. We know he is a "new" Dem. nt

[IndianaJones]

24. sounds good to me. nt.

[Romulox]

28. I don't understand why proponents of RW economics just don't join the Republicans.

A "new Democrat" = a conservative Republican who supports abortion.

[IndianaJones]

31. same reason hateful members of the fringe left don't join their brethren on the fringe right i guess

[Romulox]

32. Because the Democratic party is nominally the party of the "Left"? That can't be the reason.

LOL on the use of the word "brethren", however. Are you a member of Sarah Palin's congregation, by any chance? :hi:

[IndianaJones]

33. thats what they think I guess....meanwhile we'll elect another moderate Democratic President...

and the left will whine for 8 more years.

[Romulox]

34. Yeah, your plan to take the party to the center/right has lost how many Presidential elections now?

At least 5 of the last 7.

They say success leaves clues. So does failure. :hi:

[IndianaJones]

36. I'm only concerned about the current one...and like our chances.nt.

[Romulox]

37. Well, short term thinking is one of the primary characteristics of rightwing thought, so...nt

[ProSense]

20. No, they don't support "the bailout,"

they support a bailout.

"The bailout" is what everyone has labeled the Bush/Paulson plan. There are a lot other plans (here's Bernie Sanders') and numerous options (here's James Gailbraith's suggetion), but the final plan will look nothing like "the bailout" offered by the Bush administration.

[Romulox]

22. LOL. So-called "democracy" ("DEMOCRATic Underground") is about the will of the people. nt

[SweetieD]

26. Yes but why is McCain opposing the bill? It is not for the same reason DUers are.

[Yes We Did]

27. Wow... how odd that you say that.

Now, the other day when I suggested that we call our congressmen and and congresswomen to ask the to put the same provisions in this that Obama said, you said I was ignorant.

Now it's great... cuz you say so? 'cuz Obama says so?

Hmmm....

I accept your apology.

[murbley40]

29. I agree with you!

Thanks for saying it out loud.

[npincus]

30. I think a bailout is necessary, not quite the same as support.

[Eyes_wide_ open]

35. As someone who spent most the night in here reading

Post after post that said "I don't support ANY bailout" "it's their mess let them deal with it" "let it cave" ... I know where you coming from K&H and agree.

I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs, but that's why I want the smartest mother fuckers in the room to be my President and Vice President ... to handle the things like this. I don't suffer under the delusion that I'm as smart as Obama and will trust his judgment about how it should be handled. I know Obama cares more about taxpayers than McCain does and if McCains plan was better Obama would be the first to say hey we need to consider this.

The general public as a whole is not supportive of the concept of a bailout ... but the general public is not known for their astute wisdom.

[seabeyond]

38. NOBODY wants to bail out the greedy SOB's. and if we dont, we will all be hurt

obama said it best..... he has the best of a bad bill. he knows it. dems know it. everyone knows it. and we are sucking it up cause IF we dont do, we will be even more sorry

i will pull my money out of bank now and survive. lets do it. and everyone that lives paycheck to paycheck will be in a world of hurt

let them suffer.

let all fail

then we can rebuild.

or not

we have had bush cry wolf too many times. why should people on du believe there is a real issue