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Ignore The Pundits: How To Figure Out Who Won The Debate

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darius15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 03:40 PM
Original message
Ignore The Pundits: How To Figure Out Who Won The Debate
From Senator Hillary Clinton's former research director:

There were 23 debates during the Democratic primary and part of my job on the Hillary campaign was to monitor the post-debate reaction in the media. I watched hundreds of self-described political experts instantly declare who won and who lost.

Here's what I learned: the pundits are full of it. They don't know any more than you do and many of them have a vested interest in tilting the scales one way or another. After the debate ends, if you want to know who won, turn off the TV. You can figure it out for yourself.

The first thing to understand is that the winner of the debate isn't the person who makes the best arguments. If it was, Al Gore would be finishing up his second term. The winner of the debate is the person who moves votes to their side. You can figure out who that will be by focusing on these three factors:

1. 30 seconds are more important than 90 minutes. Although tens of millions of people will watch the debate, most everyone will forget the bulk of it immediately. The lasting impression of the debate for most voters will be the two or three exchanges -- usually less than 15 seconds long -- that are replayed, discussed, and analyzed over and over again. More often than not, whoever gets the best of these moments wins the debate.

For example, in the Des Moines Register debate in mid-December, Obama was asked a pretty tough question: How he could rely on so many former Clinton advisers and still represent a break from the past? Hillary laughed and said, "I want to hear that!" Obama flashed a smile and shot back: "Hillary, I'm looking forward to you advising me as well." It was a pitch-perfect response and catnip for the media, which played the exchange repeatedly for days. Overall, Hillary turned in a very solid performance and demonstrated an impressive command of the issues. But it didn't matter. Obama had won the key 15 seconds and it gave him a critical boost just days before the Iowa caucus.

John Edwards was generally regarded as an excellent debater. So why was it that the debates never seemed to help him much in the polls? He never really did anything memorable. (Quick: name one line Edwards said in a primary debate.) His answers were always smooth, coherent and on message. It didn't do him any good.

Identify who got the better of two or three most memorable exchanges between Obama and McCain and you'll be a long way toward identifying the winner.

2. Mistakes matter, but only some of them. Probably the worst mistake in the Democratic primary debates was Hillary's famous non-answer to a question about drivers licenses for undocumented immigrants. But it wasn't a big mistake because people care deeply about the issue. (When is the last time you've heard driver's licenses mentioned on the campaign trail?) It was important because it fit into a pre-exisiting narrative about Hillary that had been developed by her opponents for some time. Namely, that Hillary is politically calculating and dishonest. Since it reinforced a pre-exisiting narrative it caused Hillary immense damage and sent the campaign into a tailspin from which it never fully recovered.

During the next debate in Nevada, Obama was asked a similar question about drivers licenses for illegal immigrants and gave a similarly meandering answer. Yet, he paid no political price. The reason is simple: no one believed at the time that Obama was dishonest or politically calculating. So a mistake that was debilitating for Hillary was a non-issue for Obama.

In this debate, a mistake on an economic issue will be more damaging to McCain because there is a pre-existing narrative that he isn't knowledgeable or engaged on the economy. Similarly, a mistake on foreign policy would be more damaging to Obama because there is a pre-existing narrative that he may not have the experience to be commander-in-chief.

3. It is a popularity contest. At the end of the day these candidates are trying to get voters to like them. As a result, in many instances, what the candidates say is far less important than how they say it.

During the spring and summer, Obama struggled to gain traction in debates because the delivery of his answers were perceived as detached and professorial. In other words, the things he was saying were smart but he wasn't making friends. In an August debate, Hillary won a lot of admirers when she said with a smile: "For fifteen years, I have stood up against the right-wing machine and I've come out stronger. So if you want a winner who knows how to take them on, I'm your girl!"

The person who is the most relaxed and getting some laughs is usually the winner.

The reason why much of the punditry that follows the debate is inaccurate or irrelevant is that many of the people involved are far more interested in shaping the outcome of the debate than reflecting it. It usually doesn't work, but most give it a shot anyway.

You can do a lot better by thinking for yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/judd-legum/how-to-figure-out-who-won_b_129605.html
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rgbecker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd recommend this if I could!
I hope Obama reads this this evening before 9:00.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. IMO, Obama comes off best when he is self deprecating.
When he makes little humorous remarks that show him to be a nice guy you'd feel comfortable with. If he looks rattled or if he scowls he'll turn off people. It's tough because the current crisis is so awful, on top of the importance of getting off on the right foot with the first debate, that it'll be hard to be light hearted.

Still, I trust his instincts. He's awfully good when he's good...
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Rec #5...Must Read!
Edited on Fri Sep-26-08 03:56 PM by No DUplicitous DUpe
This advice is excellent!

<edited: sloppy spelling>
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. When you get booed- that is when you lose the debate.
Particularly when your poorly thought out attempt at sound bites falls flat.
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darius15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Yup, remember "change you can Xerox?" in the TX debate.That was played over and over again.
And Obama closed the gap in Texas.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nice balanced observation but I'm no Jack Kennedy and there I go again
trying to claim "there is no Soviet domination of eastern Europe."
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. It's OK. I won't hold your youth and inexperience against you.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. By December, Obama had become the cool debater.
Someone who looked relaxed, joked a lot and didn't stumble much.

He needs that tonight. McCain isn't going to have the wordy replies, he'll have the direct, one or two-lined answers and it could help.
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yeah, but who could top the Kucinich debate remark about digging to China?
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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is true, but sad.
It's like the actual debate of the debate doesn't even matter.

A presidential debate really ought to be more than just a game of the dozens.

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harris8 Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Wanna buy some wood?"
I was astounded at the time that so many "experts" claimed shrub "won" the debates against Gore & Kerry - I couldn't believe they watched the same debates that I did and came to that conclusion.

It didn't matter (to them and the rest of the 20%ers) that the little prick was and is a pathetic moron (and even had to wear a wire to get assistance from the puppeteer during the Kerry debates). Instead: "now there's a fella I'd like to have a beer with". :puke:
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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh man. "There's rumors on the internets.."
God, the 2004 debates just killed me. Bush went a different kind of crazy in each one, and yet the media kept pretending he didn't.

You know what I remember most?

I remember when John Kerry called George Bush on saying he "really was not that concerned" about where Osama bin Laden was, and GWB flat-out lied and said he'd never said such a thing. There was video of him saying it, of course, and you'd think THAT would've been the big story coming out of that debate, but no. What was it?

Kerry mentioned Cheney's out lesbian daughter in an answer.

Ugh. That still makes me shake my head.

Hopefully, these debates will be better, although I doubt they're going to be anywhere near as funny. (Well, Sarah Palin's has a chance...) :)
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here's a very simple way to tell who won in the debate;
If his name is Barack Obama, he won. Simple.
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RepublicanElephant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. al gore DID move voters to his side. then jeb, katherine and diebold moved them to dubya. n/t
.
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Zenmaster Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. I just plan on reading the McCain ads to find out who won.
I'm sure they'll give me the scoop.
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cyr330 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. abso-fucking-lutely
Especially after some of those assholes tried to say that Kerry & Bush were tied in their first debate in 2004 which was an absolute CLUSTER FUCK for Bush.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Bush completely fucking blew the first debate.
Even my irredeemable right-wing tool father realized it.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. Well said and extremely insightful. Thank you. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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