Anyone else think the Ayers issue is a total non-starter for regular folks?

[msallied]

I mean, who in the hell who has any sort of a functioning brain thinks the Ayers story is worrisome? I think Reverend Wright had much more of a chance of damaging Obama, but the Palin "witch hunter" factor now completely negates that.

"Ooh! OBama once spoke with a guy who was a radical lefty forty years ago!"

Are they serious? This is only going to rile up the base and it didn't stick to Obama back in the primaries either. They literally have NOTHING ELSE.

[flowomo]

1. zero traction. zero.

and I am perfectly willing to acknowledge an effective slime attack when I see one. This is not one.

[msongs]

2. dangerous if it is repeated often enuff - ignorant people believe what is on TV - thats why

billions are spent on advertising. if it didnt work, nobody would do it.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[goodgd_yall]

34. agree

It's not just that Ayers is a "radical." If the whole story about the Weatherman is told in just the "right" way (and I mean that literally---right-wing, that is), then it might worry some people.

[billyoc]

3. Nobody remembers the Weathermen, because they never killed anybody.

They just weren't that big a deal. :shrug:

[msallied]

6. Exactly! Granted, I wasn't around back then...

However, I had no idea who the hell these people were until this election and then I read about them and I was pretty much nonplussed. Am I supposed to be surprised about radical movements in the 60s? LOL

[Eyes_wide_ open]

28. Actually, all of us are involved in a rather radical movement

right here and now. It's called the Obama/Bidin campaign, which I hope becomes even more radical after we've won the election. We need radical change, not just to rearrange the furniture. Radical isn't necessarily a bad thing ... unless you're a Republican.

says this flower child of the 60's.

Nope, none starter it is.

[msallied]

33. Proud to be a part of the radical movement, myself.

And should this thing not turn out as it's being predicted, I'm prepared to make a lot of noise.

[WinkyDink]

48. "Exactly!"?? You're not the standard of knowledge, I hope. Ever heard of Baader-

Meinhof? Black September (and Munich 1972)? The Japanese Red Army? The Red Brigades?

[amborin]

21. unfortunately

that is not correct

a SF cop was killed by a pipe bomb

and ayers refuses to comment on it

i think folks do believe lies, this is proven

so it is worrisome and needs to be combatted

today's ny times article showed O had only the most fleeting contact with ayers, and this was purely indirect contact concerning projects that chicago mayor daily approved

[LiberalFighter]

41. Gee I wonder what the NY Times was trying to do wasting ink on a non issue.

They must be McCain supporters.

[amborin]

44. did you even read the NY Times article? it totally exhonerates Obama

shows he had no socializing with ayers

only the most indirect crossing of paths once or twice

guess you never even read the article

[fujiyama]

49. Read the article. They interviewed a dozen or so people that knew Ayers and Obama

It debunks the RW crap completely and shows that they didn't have any relationship.

[cali]

53. more abject ignorance. The NYT article was a huge help.

try reading before shooting off your keyboard.

[goodgd_yall]

36. They were a big deal back then

And in these times, blowing up buildings and calling it terrorism might just scare some people.

If you lived back then, their existence and actions seemed a natural consequence of the times, but without the context of those times, the media could possible make a case with some people that Ayers is equal to an Islamic extremist.

[WinkyDink]

47. Are you CRAZY?! The Weathermen were a HUGE "DEAL". Bernardine Dohrn, Bill Ayers, Kathy Boudin,

Diana Oughton, et al. were INFAMOUS. NOTORIOUS. MAJOR.

Nobody killed?
"On October 20, 1981 the Weather Underground combined forces with the Black Liberation Army to rob a Brink's armored truck. Two policemen and a Brink's guard were killed."
Wikipedia

[Quixote1818]

4. It's just red meat for the base. The center of the country will see right through it. nt

[Kool Kitty]

45. Exactly. And if the ex-beauty queen had

bothered to read the ENTIRE article, instead of shooting her mouth off about how Obama is "palling around" with a terrorist, she would realize how ignorant she sounds.

[ShortnFiery]

5. Unforturnately, since we have a CORPORATE M$M who would benefit greatly from a McCain Presidency,

they'll spew all these debunked and sadly inane talking points (about Ayers and Rev. Wright) one last go-round.

The M$M is shameless. If we are blessed to have a democratic Executive Branch again, we should LEAD THE WAY for a marked DE-CONSOLIDATION of the MSM. They are poison, in that, they function as PSYOPS for the Ruling Elite who clearly favor the GOP in charge of our nation. :(

[msallied]

9. I would love to see cable news completely obliterated.

I think, though, that even they will have a hard time dictating this narrative.

[ShortnFiery]

24. The most GLARING "tell" was that asinine acting David Brooks suggesting that ...

Obama would not fit in at the Salad Bar within an Applebees Restaurant. :wow:

Since Applebees doesn't have a "Salad Bar" this arrogant horse's patootie should have lost all credibility, and been force OFF of all M$M TV ... but since they still prop up Tom Delay, Henry Kissinger and Karl Rove, there is no semblance of a moral compass within the M$M. :(

[msallied]

26. hahahaha! He's clearly not a middle-class American. Besides, everybody knows...

the salad bar is at Ruby Tuesday's. What a doofus. LOL

[ShortnFiery]

32. Agreed! Plus BTW - Ruby Tuesdays IMO, rules in middle class "salad bar" quality.

David Brooks ---> What a maroon! :P

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. It makes no sense and it is too complicated even in its nonsensical version

It's the lamest smear in the history of modern campaigning.

[Forkboy]

8. Not only will it not stick, it'll backfire on McCain.

[msallied]

11. Yup. "I'll see your Ayers and raise you a Keating."

I think those words right there are the last ones that McCain wants to hear right now. He's banking on Obama not going there, but someone will eventually.

[Forkboy]

27. Rememeber the undecideds on CNN during the VP debate?

Every time either Palin or Biden said anything remotely negative the lines dropped sharply. People will not be responding well to negative attacks.

Here in Mass during the Gubernatorial race the Repub, Kerry Healey, ran a normal campaign until just a couple of weeks before the election. Then she ran an add about Deval Patrick that was right up there with the Willie Horton stuff, and it blew up in her face big time. She ended up getting creamed on election day.

Negative works when things are relatively good. When times are tough people want answers, not insults.

McCain is about to screw the pooch.

[swishyfeet]

39. I agree, the swiftboating just isn't playing well this year

Everyone is fed up with the negative.

[abumbyanyothername]

10. Nobody even knows who Ayers is

except for some law enforcement types, and people like me, who really admired what he was attempting to accomplish.

Plus, thank Hillary for vetting all this stuff way back. Hendrik Hertzberg had a great piece on it in the New Yorker's Talk of the Town during the primary. The "Hillary hazing" made Obama a stronger general election candidate because none of this stuff is new.

[msallied]

12. Very good point.

The long primary season definitely had its advantages.

[BlooInBloo]

16. To be honest, I *still* don't. I just laughed at the Clintonites talking about him....

as I laugh at McDying talking about him.


EDIT: Subject typo.

[msallied]

19. I only recently read the damn Wikipedia on the guy.

I was decidedly underwhelmed. LOL

[BlooInBloo]

23. Well... thanks for saving me the trouble! hahahah!

[msallied]

31. Lemme correct that.

I was underwhelmed by the Ayers/Obama connection. The evidence is flimsy. Ayers is very active in the political community. It would stand to reason that OBama would have brushed elbows with the guy once or twice.

As for Ayers himself, well his story is actually pretty damn fascinating. The fact that he participated in the stuff he did back in the 60s and has gone on to become a pretty prestigious public figure in Chicago today is pretty extraordinary. The fact that he's not in prison is really interesting.

[AzNick]

13. And America likes winners, not whiners.

Hmmm careful... up to 1% could be influenced, maybe, meaning a 2% difference in the polls, which could help McCain reduce the gap, but would definitely make him look like a dirty trickster ready to do anything to win.

But it will make the victory sweeter, knowing that our guy really played it cool and competently and did not run around like a chicken with his head cut off.

America likes winners, but they like good, strong-headed, focused winners, like the Giants vs the Pats.

[Skip Intro]

14. I think it will damn well backfire on them. Americans are listening big time this year

and instead of telling the American people what they can do for them, the repukes are going to resort to mud-slinging. That's gonna turn a lot of people off just on the face of it. It will fall flat. The people will see through it. And not fall for it. It will piss Americans off more than anything. And the MP ticket will fall further behind because of it. I think this line of attack on Obama may well tank the repuke ticket and the party as a whole come election day.

[msallied]

I think you nailed it.

This political season has been very long. I think people more than anything are fatigued and have their minds made up at this point. I read recently that few voters actually change their mind in October anyway. The course has been set. If it's still looking like this by my birthday (the 26th), I'm gonna go ahead and buy my champagne. LOL

[BlooInBloo]

15. Let the primary be your guide.

[msallied]

17. I want to send a big ol' thank you not to Hillary Clinton now. lol

[BlooInBloo]

20. Yup - same campaign.

[gravity]

18. I still have no clue what Rezko did

The Wright story has some traction because of the videos, but I don't think any of the other associations really resonate with anyone

[msallied]

22. Rezko was apparently a crook who brokered some paperwork for Obama

when Obama wanted to expand his backyard or something. Lame. Lamer than the Ayers thing, if that's even possible.

[gravity]

37. Why should I care again?

I zoned out halfway reading through your post.

[azmouse]

25. Ayers, Wright, Rezko... old news.

They aren't involved the economic downturn and that is all most Americans care about right now.

[XOKCowboy]

29. It's how it's phrased for the LIV

When you say that Obama consorted with a founder of the Weather Underground without any context then the LIVs look no farther for information and associate Obama with bombings, etc. After all they're both black and from Chicago, right?

The Ayers story only energizes the base, no matter the facts. It does nothing to sway the indies and real Dems.

[goodgd_yall]

40. I hope you're right

that it only energizes the base and that independents see it for what it is---a smear campaign.

[Blondiegrrl]

30. 1. People are far more concerned about the plummeting economy, and 2.,

Didn't we already go over all this crap ad nauseum during the primaries?

It's old news. But I guess if Palin wasn't paying attention during the primaries, she wouldn't know any better.

[1corona4u]

35. Yep, Who cares.

[kestrel91316]

38. Our local news, to their credit, pointed out that Obama was all of 8 years old

when Ayers was up to his monkeybusiness.

[Doctor_J]

42. Since there are at least 5 threads on it in GD-P, I'd say no

it's not a non-starter, since a lot of DUers are running with it

[Raine]

43. Yup ancient history...repigs still wanting

to refight the Viet Nam era cause they can't get passed it but as a whole the American people have moved on.

[WinkyDink]

50. This is really sad, to have a Democrat, presumably educated, say that history is unimportant.

That we have "moved on."

That is the mark of an ignorant populace.

[Raine]

52. "Moved on" in regard to

hippies vs the establishment...McInSANE and his buddies seems to want to keep on pitting my generation (the 60's baby boomers) vs. everyone else. To him and his crowd we are still the spoiled brats that have to be taken to task for our pasts. I'm sick of it just because the days of beating up hippies was the glory days for them they want to keep going back to it. Yes some of us have moved on, we're tax payers now and are heading toward retirement. We don't want our past to be used to defeat our candidate. McINSANE wants to keep looking into the past, I want to look to the future.

[Algorem]

46. the guy's white,has a boring anglo name,and was a weather man.

mccain will be lucky if people can even stay awake when they hear about it.

[iceman66]

51. Probably.

There really is not much there.

[Political Heretic]

54. Yes me. Most people are like WHO?

[DCBob]

55. Nothing there. If fact it makes them looks stupid and desperate for bringing it up

-- Obama was a child at the time
-- Ayers was never convicted of anything
-- Ayers in now a distinguished professor and respected member of society
-- Obama only association with Ayers relates to the good works he is involved in.

It's a really dumb strategy.

[Apollo11]

56. Some of us were sounding the alarm about the Bill Ayers thing back during the primaries

Just for the record, here is a link a thread I started in General Discussion: Primaries on 18/04/08 (before Obama was officially declared as the nominee).

Subject: Obama's relationship with a former terrorist -- how is that NOT a relevant issue?
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5561329

See also this article:
About Obama's terrorist acquaintance (Steve Chapman, Chicago Tribune, April 20, 2008)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x354161

The feeling among most Obama supporters at that time was that their candidate had succeeded in neutralizing the issue. Just like most folks here defended Obama when he refused to condemn Jeremiah Wright for his divisive remarks.

I hope Obama takes the opportunity of next week's debate to reject and denounce Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground.

PS - Also for the record - here is me giving Obama the benefit of the doubt just 3 days later (on 21/04/08):
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=354161&mesg_id=354177

But I still say Obama needs to make an unequivocal statement rejecting and denouncing all those who would use violence to achieve their political goals in the USA.

[pnwmom]

57. I disagree. It's a non-starter for INFORMED folks. But much of the electorate

is barely informed -- and this does affect them.

Obama needs to keep fighting this. McCain is likely to repeat this over and over in the next month.