Are we being swiftboated again -- and don't realize it?

[pnwmom]

Could the Ayers (terrorist association) accusations be more damaging than we're realizing? Are we assuming too much of people's intelligence and good will -- like Kerry did when he thought he wouldn't need to fight back hard about the swiftboating?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. No/No/Yes

[Mother Of Four]

2. Obama will and is taking care of it-

Don't fret over it, he's already responding to it. The damage is when it's laying to fester- He's lancing the boil now :)

[pnwmom]

5. But these charges first came out months ago, and they still haven't gone away.n/t

[YDogg]

7. nor have they gained traction

[Arkana]

27. They haven't gone away because the wingnuts won't let them die.

Not because they've gone unanswered.

[Joe the Revelator]

40. Idiots will always spout the lies, the key is the charges don't have legs.

[Hokie]

3. No, nothing there, easily debunked

It has all the looks of desperation. I really hope McCain brings it up in the debate.

[pnwmom]

6. But there wasn't anything to the Swiftboat claims either. n/t

[Skidmore]

9. Well, if we stand around and wring our hands and fret

then WE give them traction. You face the accusation and address it. I trust Obama to do what is right and necessary but sometimes I don't trust supporters to do what is right. I'm tired of fear and angst.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Where was kerry in the polls on October 5?

Question answered.

Stop inventing stupid shit to fret about.

[whistle]

4. That's a given McCain's people will say or do anything to move

...attention away from the real issues that affect the U.S. right now. Obama needs to bring the focus back every time

[cali]

oh, jeez. start paying attention. Obama has learned the Kerry lesson well

and duh, this is NOT 2004. Things couldn't be more different. Axelrod is not Shrum. And Obama is fighting like hell.

[seabeyond]

33. not to mention he has kerry speaking out for him forcibly every time. n/t

[still_one]

8. The big difference in this swift-boating is that the media is actually debunking it

saying there is no merit to it

However, the Obama camp should definitely address that attack directly since it is so outrageous, and in addition, it should be brought up the palin's connection with the Alaskan Independent Party

I suspect it might be brought up in the town hall debate forum, and Obama better answer it directly, and keep it short and simple

[usregimechange]

10. I think he needs to counter punch hard, bring up his cheating, keating, etc

[pnwmom]

19. I agree. I don't know why we're not putting the Keating story in ads. n/t

[redstate_democrat]

11. Ayers is old and not as potent

To think Obama has terrorists ties is not only tin foil hat territory, but it makes McCain look quite unstable and stupid. Ayers was beaten to death in the primaries. Besides, every time Obama says that he was 8 years old when Ayers did his crime and when people learn that the person they're talking about is currently a college professor, and was one when Obama met him, they will see that McCain is desperate as hell.

The best thing they had on Obama was Wright and that is pretty much over because Palin is on tape being healed by a witch doctor. She is also on tape in that church saying crazy shit. Trinity don't got jack on Wasilla Church.

Plus Obama hasn't even played his cards on McCain yet, so they are fresh with most potency. Every thing McCain has is OLD.

We have

Hagee
Parsley
Muthee
Keating Five
Some anti-semetic group McCain was a member of
McCain's character issues, detailed in his own book HE wrote, dealing with everything from his tendency to LIE, cheat, and do whatever to get where he wants to go
His hatred for women, as documented throughout his career
and much more

[1corona4u]

12. Like I said in another thread...

only the terminally stupid will buy this. People who have decided to vote for Obama are firm in that decision I think. If there are any undecideds, which I highly doubt, I think they will see it for what it is, another lie.

[pnwmom]

20. My elderly mother is having to deal with this issue with her friends.

That tells me that there is a significant group in the voting population that is affected by the charge.

[1corona4u]

24. If that's true, then they never really supported him.

That's the reality. By the way, remind your mother, to tell her friends, that the true terrorist in this country now occupies THE WHITEHOUSE.

[pnwmom]

29. You're right. These are "undecideds." Don't we want their votes, too? n/t

[1corona4u]

42. Honestly, if they are that easily swayed, then who needs fickle support like that.

They made a decision, apparently from what you said, they are now backing out. There are probably underlying factors as well. I'll let you figure out what they may be. But I will say, anyone, and I mean anyone, who doesn't support Obama, has serious mental deficiencies.

No, I wouldn't waste my time trying to win them over.

[Jennicut]

28. Sorry but only people who never like Obama to begin with think this stuff is true

My Mom's neighbor still insists he is a Muslim and took his oath on the Koran. These people are dumb as dirt but I doubt they like Obama anyways. Also the swiftboating was not from Bush directly whereas the attacks are directly from Phalin and look desperate.

[pnwmom]

30. Also people who don't follow politics much and are still undecided. n/t

[Vinca]

13. Obama isn't going to sit in a corner and allow his reputation to be

skewered with lies and innuendo.

[gravity]

14. There is nothing juicy about the Ayers story

After a simple fact check, there is nothing there. This isn't like Rev. Wright who gave us youtube clips which they can play over and over.

I really don't think these association attacks are much effective either from Obama or McCain. They don't have the emotional impact once you have to explain what these people really are, and the American public is getting tired of negative attacks.

[leftofcool]

16. Which is why I don't understand the gadzillion threads on it

[cali]

17. sorry, most potential voters do NOT do fact checks. period.

these attacks using Ayers depend on shock value and the ignorance of voters. Having said that, the Obama campaign knows what they're doing.

[Zynx]

18. No. It's too late to successfully swiftboat. They fucked up.

[4themind]

21. It's a question that we should always be circumspect for but there are some differences IMO

The swiftboaters used appeal to authority (with "fellow" swift boat veterans) to combat Kerry's narrative of an honorable swift boat vetern. They attacked kerry's strength by using people who were ALSO seen as soldiers. Palin is a meandering hack who doesn't gather even the same iota of gravitas on an issue like this, and her credibility among Independents is incredibly eroded anyway, she just doesn't have credibility, it will be seen purely as a political play because it doesn't come from someone outside of the direct political process like those "honorable" swift boat veterans that were just trying to protect the honor of the military from a person who "misrepresented" his service(sarcasm tag here of course as their lies were not true but were apparently seen in the way that I described)

Bush/Cheney had more cover because they didn't raise the issue directly (other than to say they raise questions americans may think about). The difference here is that the V.P. is raising this up herself, this leaves them far more exposed to counterattacks, and this counter attack can come from many fronts (direct attacks on McCain's past associations can come from 527's and from an increasingly more fact-checky, pissed-off-at-being-deuped-but-still-blamed media, that McCain pissed off BEFORE he got into power as president).

From Obama's end I don't think he should bring up their pasts directly (this will help maintain his edge in independent support, and help keep the "new politics" theme relatively intact for the very real number of people who believe in it.) Instead they should be asking WHY are they changing the subject?

It's because they don't want to talk about the economy, and Obama needs to paint the very nature of McCain focusing time on false attacks like these as a callous dismissal of the importance of peoples houses, paychecks, jobs and health care. We can turn his attack into an attack of our own, of McCain being mercilessly out of touch with the concerns of ordinary Americans. That every second spent talking about 40 years ago is a callous dismissal of everyday working family problems right now. At the same time we can fact check their lies (before pivoting it back to the economy) and this will help re-enforce the "liar" theme that seems to be working very well

[No Elephants]

22. They are trying to swiftboat, no question. And Obama cannot do much about Ayers beyond what he has

already done. However, Democrat leaders can and Begala just did on Meet the Press. He pointed out that McCain belonged to a far right racist organization. Not a friend of McCain's. Not someone who was a racist when McCain was 8 years old. Not someone who sat on the boards of some charities with McCain, but John McCain himself. And then, there is the relationship of John McCain himself with good old Charles Keating, briber of legislators par excellence.

[BlooInBloo]

23. OMGWEREDOOMED!!!!!

:rofl:

You guys never stop.

[pnwmom]

34. ABC news has a story today. McCain is just beginning these attacks.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5957466&page=1

SNIP

It appears the McCain campaign is finally preparing to launch a forceful assault on Obama's character by portraying him as having a cozy relationship with a man it calls an "unrepentant terrorist," even though there is scant evidence that the two men were much more than acquaintances who happened to serve together on two not-for-profit boards several years ago.

But with McCain now trailing Obama in a number of key battleground states and time running short, it appears his campaign is finally preparing to play the Ayers card — whatever it is.

On Saturday, McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, accused Obama of "palling around" with a terrorist.

The Washington Post reported that a new McCain offensive to be launched this week will include an attack on Obama for his supposed connections to Ayers and his relationship with Rezko.


The late-game strategy appears to be try to sow doubts about the Democratic nominee under the general rubric of: "Who is Barack Obama?"

SNIP

[BlooInBloo]

35. That story has been EVERYWHERE for the last WEEK.

[pnwmom]

That is their strategy. Repeat, repeat, repeat. They don't stop

just because something is factually untrue.

[BlooInBloo]

38. You do know that for OMGWEREDOOMED to actually work....

The polls have to get WORSE, not BETTER, right?

[pnwmom]

43. Why are you putting words into my mouth?

I just think some people -- maybe including you -- appear to be awfully complacent. That's dangerous, given past history.

[backscatter712]

25. Obama says...

[electron_blue]

39. I love that pic.

[Arkana]

26. If that were true we'd be down in the polls right now.

People have heard this shit already. Multiple times. They had an opportunity to change their minds then and didn't--why do it now?

[pnwmom]

36. Only people who were paying attention to the primaries.

Sure, DUers have known about these claims for months. But DUers aren't typical of the electorate.

And McCain is just beginning with these attacks.

From ABC news broadcast today:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5957466&page=1

It appears the McCain campaign is finally preparing to launch a forceful assault on Obama's character by portraying him as having a cozy relationship with a man it calls an "unrepentant terrorist," even though there is scant evidence that the two men were much more than acquaintances who happened to serve together on two not-for-profit boards several years ago.

But with McCain now trailing Obama in a number of key battleground states and time running short, it appears his campaign is finally preparing to play the Ayers card — whatever it is.


On Saturday, McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, accused Obama of "palling around" with a terrorist.

The Washington Post reported that a new McCain offensive to be launched this week will include an attack on Obama for his supposed connections to Ayers and his relationship with Rezko.


The late-game strategy appears to be try to sow doubts about the Democratic nominee under the general rubric of: "Who is Barack Obama?"

SNIP

[Imagevision]

31. No

[usregimechange]

32. yep

[JBoy]

37. Even Fox News is debunking this latest attack

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x206938

[elkston]

41. You are waay too concerned about this attack. Chill and let the man take of business

After all he's endured, do you not trust the campaign to handle this effectively?