Helen Thomas - "Remove Arrows from Dean's Back"

[LuminousX]

edit: fixed grammar error

Seattle PI - Remove Arrows from Dean's Back

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean says he knows he's the front-runner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination "because I keep picking buckshot out of my rear end all the time."

He referred to the relentless sniping by his eight rivals who presume he is the man to beat.

Personally, I have never seen so much antagonism directed at a candidate by other members of the same party. It seems to me his competitors would do better to toot their own horns instead of tearing down a colleague.

Now, what were we saying about Dean being too sensitive? Helen Thomas, one of the most respected political reporters we have, is saying she has never see so much antagonism. Is it possible she is correct? Is it possible Dean hasn't been overly sensitive?

No matter if he is or isn't, the fact is Helen Thomas is telling us something we should have remembered all along: Dean's rivals seem to have forgotten the maxim "divide and conquer." They should be guided by the maxim: "United we stand. Divided we fall."

[Capn Sunshine]

1. AMEN, Sister Helen!

can I get a HALLELUJAH?

paying attention , anyone?

[Melodybe]

30. Hallelujah! Testify! Glad to see someone speaking up for Dean

[windansea]

78. cartoon n/t

[FubarFly]

79. LOL

Good one. :-)

[Skwmom]

2. Maybe Dean should have thought about

before he started smearing and spreading lies about the other candidates.

[Democrats unite]

4. Amen to that...

Also Dean supporters in NH.

[LuminousX]

5. Smearing? Spreading lies?

You of course have cited examples that aren't just standard political attacks. You also have someone like Helen Thomas commenting on Dean's attacks being over-the-top and too much? Has anyone accused Dean of doing Bush's job for him?

[Skwmom]

13. Considering Helen Thomas is perpetuating the myth

that Dean was anti-war when he is on the record supporting a unilateral attack against Iraq and supporting a resolution which was very much like the one that passed, I put Helen Thomas in the category "hate will blind you to the truth." The Republicans fueled the hate against Clinton to blind their supporters to what they where doing and Dean is doing the same thing.

Maybe people are antagonistic to Dean because he is a smarmy, lying politician who reminds us of Bush.

[FubarFly]

17. Yup, that was predictable. Helen Thomas says something

Dean friendly, so now we must smear Helen Thomas.

About par for this course...

[oasis]

34. The poster did not "smear" Helen.

[LuminousX]

39. Perception of a "smear"

I put Helen Thomas in the category "hate will blind you to the truth."

That statement implies Helen Thomas is blinded by hate and is not making a logical rational analysis. Saying Helen perpetuates a myth is implying Helen doesn't know the reality or is chosing not to present the reality.

I know Helen Thomas's credentials. Those who attack her or question her have better credentials and a better record than she does.

[FubarFly]

44. Yup, the poster seemed to imply that Helen is just

some bitter old broad who is not in touch with reality.

It is sad that we so easily can trash our heroes in the name of partisan gain. :-(

[Mairead]

120. No, Helen was recommending a self-destructive course of action

When Dean and his minions tell inflating lies about his record and deflating lies about other candidates (which he and they have in fact repeatedly done), then taking the high road doesn't work: how can a real record stand up to a fantasy one? How can X get his mundane record evaluated fairly when Y claims both to be able to walk on water and that X can't even find his shoes?

[LuminousX]

28. I trust Helen Thomas. What are your credentials?

[WillyT]

32. Ya Can't Tell, Her Profile Is Rather Scant !!!

Helen, on the other hand, is a true American hero. She is also one WISE lady, and might know a thing or two about presidential elections.

I'd listen up, folks!

:shrug:

[redqueen]

33. "hate will blind you to the truth."

If Helen Thomas is indeed perpetuating that falsehood, then you're spot on.

Well done.

[FubarFly]

35. You believe hatred allows you to be objective enough to

see the truth?

Eh?

Hate can be a good motivater, but I think in the end it is self-defeating.

[redqueen]

48. I think you misunderstood.

I think hate will blind you, so that you can't be objective.

If Helen Thomas is now doing as the post I responded to infers (i.e. perpetuating the "Dean is anti-war" falsehood), then I do believe she has been blinded at least in part by hatred for Bush.

You're absolutely right that hate is self-defeating.

[FubarFly]

50. Ah, my apologies.

But I don't think Helen is perpetuating that. Did I miss it?

[LuminousX]

55. Here is what Helen said about Iraq

Dean has staked out a strong position against the invasion of Iraq. The same is true of Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, the only member of Congress among the pack who voted against giving Bush authority to go to war.

The other Democratic congressional presidential contenders voted for the war, including Sens. John Kerry of Massachusetts; Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and John Edwards of North Carolina.

Oddly, Kerry made a name for himself protesting the Vietnam War back in the 1970s.

Then there is retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark, who is all over the place on the war issue. He has said he probably would have voted to authorize the war, but he also has said it was an "unnecessary war" and he has rejected the Bush doctrine of preventive war.

We can argue over what Dean really supported at the onset, but it is obvious that he has done everything her could to be the 'anti-war candidate' right now.

[redqueen]

56. Honestly I don't know.

I took the other poster at their word. Which is why I prefaced my comments with that qualifier (if).

[mouse7]

98. I trust Helen Thomas judgement.

I don't know you, redqueen. If you tell me to question Helen Thomas' judgement, that leads me to question your judgement, not hers.

[LuminousX]

37. ROFL - As if I would put a random person's assessment above Helen's

Accuse Helen of whatever you want, but don't be naive. And don't attempt to distort the record and analysis of one of our few honest to goodness 'good guys.'

[redqueen]

53. I don't put anyone on a pedestal.

We are all human and as such subject to failure. Helen is no exception.

If, as the poster inferred, Helen is now perpetuating the "Dean is anti-war" falsehood, then yes I do believe she may be blinded to nuance by hatred for Bush.

Regardless, her sentiment to band together to do what it takes to stop Bush is right, but her belief that what is required is harmony is way off.

I'd like to know why she chose to portray Dean as the only one sufferring these attacks. Why didn't she include any mention at all of how he began his campaign? I believe that may have played some part in how he's been treated, and it's at the very least disingenuous for Helen to omit that now and make the piece one entirely positive for Dean.

[LuminousX]

58. Have you bothered to read the article?

Before impuning Helen Thomas, read the article.

Dean has staked out a strong position against the invasion of Iraq.

That is what she said about Dean. If that is a myth, then I'm a Greek God. We can argue about what Dean really stood for during the onset, but the fact of the matter is when Saddam's statue was torn down, Wolf Blitzer called Dean to ask if he was going to withdraw from the race seeing he was the anti-Iraq war candidate. When Saddam was caught, people said Dean's campaign was kaput because Dean was the anti-Iraq war candidate.

Dean has encouraged that perception and for all intents and purposes is known as being anti-Iraq war.

[redqueen]

67. Since the poster did not specify

that Helen furthered this notion in this particular article, I did not assume as much. For all I know it was in another article. We'll have to wait for her to comment to know for sure.

But you're right, in this particular piece she is not saying Dean is not anti-war as such. If this was the statement the comment in the original post I responded to was based on, then I would not agree.

[WillyT]

61. Sorry... Helen Has Earned Her Pedestal !!!

I'm sure she will be amused at some of the letters and e-mails she's about to receive too.

Probably have a good laugh with the folks in the newsroom!

[redqueen]

69. She has earned respect, no doubt

But you must be young if you haven't learned yet that no one is infallible.

I'm sure she'll enjoy her mail, yes indeed. :)

[edzontar]

64. The blind leading the blind...

I'd expect more from a Kucinich supporter.

Guess what--it is possible to support Dean for reasons other than "hate"!!!!

[redqueen]

70. You misunderstand

It is not Helen's support for Dean that I ascribe to her hatred for Bush. Rather, the post I responded to had inferred that Helen was furthering the 'dean is anti-war' myth.

If that was true, then I would not have any problem ascribing such sloppiness to her hatred for Bush.

And please with the 'I'd expect more'. I hate that. I get that all the time. As if Christians, Kucinich supporters, liberals, whoever... is somehow supposed to be more perfect than any other human being.

[MODemocrat]

65. You should like Dean if he reminds you of Bush

Why are you so angry at Helen Thomas? I've never heard Dean lie, and all I've read about his so-called lies, is from people who would rather keep Bush in the whitehouse. :crazy: :shrug:

[Scott Lee]

66. Sorry, Dean was always anti-war with the way it came about

I hate to keep smashing that useless meme, but I must.

Write this in your book. Howard Dean was always against this war with the way it came about. That means that it did not meet the criteria he set for launching a war of aggression on a sovereign state.

Stop with the "myth", k?

[Melodybe]

77. difference is if Dean wins we will not be Nazi USA 2004

Look ALL of the Candidates are politicians, politicans want to be electedI disagree with your Bush/Dean comparison, Dean actually seems to care about people Bush is a fucking evil troll that sees Americans as nothing more than peons, to do his bidding.

[RetroLounge]

97. So now you are bashing Helen Thomas too?

Gee, who do you still like?

You and your ilk have bashed:

Gore
Bradley
Helen Thomas
Anyone who supports Dean.
Anyone who endorses Dean.
Anyone who works for Dean.

You must be running out of friends.

Helen Thomas is a HERO and a fucking GODDESS all wrapped up in one. She was out front against Bush* and took a beating for it in the RW Press, and you come out and bash her because she doesn't meet your little agenda.

That is so fucking pathetic and sad...

[JNelson6563]

117. compared to the quotes from Clark at the start of this

"popular war" Dean was a veritable dove.

Surely you can do better than that?

Why not provide some evidence for you charges? I know the one-liner hit and run is easier and more fun but it coesn't do much for your point or credibility.

Julie

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

129. "...on the record supporting a unilateral attack against Iraq ..."

IF certain conditions were met.

They weren't. Your assertion turns into a puff of smoke...

[Larkspur]

137. Considering that Dean's rivals didn't start sniping at him until after he

became the frontrunner, I'd say that their sniping reeks of jealousy. Dean developed a plan to rally the Dem base, the others ignored most of us, and he won a solid support base for his efforts and appeal.

[Skwmom]

18. So now lying is considered "standard political attacks"

and you wonder why so many people are disgusted with politics and politicians.

[FubarFly]

25. You missed the point of the article entirely.

Sometimes we need to rise above the bullshit and political infighting and look at the BIG PICTURE, which in this case,

what is the best strategy to defeat George Bush?

Helen's insights and wisdom should be taken a bit more seriously in that regard.

[LuminousX]

29. Lies? Cited examples, please?

[RetroLounge]

99. You continuously drop you one line bombs

and never back them up.

Got any proof?

No?

Didn't think so...

[JNelson6563]

118. got anything besides one-liners

and lots of empty assertions?

I've never seen anything else from you. You make many claims and never, ever provide links or evidence of any kind. This MO may carry weight with your fellow partisans but those not of your mindset see nothing but one-liner smears.

Just a friendly FYI.

Julie

[Hawkeye-X]

6. Please provide proof and cites that Dean spreads lies about the other

candidates.

The NH episode was probably was not an authorized DFA activity, so don't count on this.

Hawkeye-X

[Skwmom]

16. Peruse the DU archives

There's plenty of support for you there.

[Hawkeye-X]

21. No. I'm not going to do your homeworks

and 90% of the so-called lies are already debunked and the other 10% was just made-up bullshit.

So, please, Skwmom, please provide proof.

Thanks!

[Forkboy]

86. Back something up for once

[RetroLounge]

100. Never happen

no substance in her post. Never had it, never will.

[MercutioATC]

96. How many of our Senatorial candidates are talking about the Patriot II

voice vote?

It takes a true lack of guts to fail to speak out about something that your entire party doesn't support. Where are the indignant statements? Where are the condemnations? Nice job, Dem Senators...

[Padraig18]

3. Testify, Sister Helen!

If anyone should know when it's getting out of hand, it should be Helen Thomas; she's worked through every campaign since what, 1940?

[Cheswick2.0]

9. Amen

love Helen

[edzontar]

7. Helen SPEAKS TRUTH to power, privilege....

And stupid, self-defeating Dem-lites.

RIGHT ON, Sistah Helen!!!

[SEAburb]

8. Yep, Dean is damaged goods now, pointless to support

his candidacy.

[FubarFly]

10. I think you posted on the wrong thread.

What Helen and the original poster are saying is just the opposite.

[SEAburb]

24. Too late in the game now

The other candidates have been attacking Dean for at least six months. The damage is already done.

[LuminousX]

27. Actually, no. If you note a few other threads up right now

It is surprising how little damage has actually been done and how motivated Dean's supporters are.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. You may wish it

but you aren't the Princess Bride, so you are SOL!

[Hawkeye-X]

11. And how is he damaged goods?

Clark is very severely damaged with his connections to BCCI and Club for Growth.

Hawkeye-X

[LuminousX]

12. Interesting assessment

Incorrect, but interesting.

[chookie]

14. Amen

The sniping does not seem to be hurting Dean -- in fact, he keeps getting more and more popular. It does seem to have hurt the snipers, who have lost credibility as most of us feel this is the most important election of our lifetimes and it is critical to work strategically and in a unified manner.

Howard is still on his feet. Still ahead. That's an achievement, I am sure we will all agree.

If he survives the feeding frenzy of his own party, then perhaps we may agree that he can go toe to toe with the Rove Character Assassination Squad in what is going to be the most vicious campaign in history? That, I think, is a point worth considering.

[windansea]

15. the face of the Dean campaign

[blm]

19. Could THIS be why? Does Dean bear ANY responsibility?

USA Today, April 28, 2003
>>>>
"Until now, the competition has been relatively harmonious, at least for public consumption, with the exception of Dean. His attacks on fellow Democrats have been so cutting that sometimes the Republican National Committee e-mails them to party members. "Gephardt Plan: 'Pie-In-The-Sky Radical Revamping' " was the headline on one last week, quoting Dean.

Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri have been Dean targets in recent weeks. But Dean has reserved his sharpest thrusts for Kerry, repeatedly accusing him of selling out Democratic principles. The two men are virtually tied for the lead in polls in New Hampshire, which holds the critically important first primary election."
>>>>>
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-28-dem-words_x.htm

[LuminousX]

22. LOL - No.

Attacks are going to occur and Helen isn't saying there shouldn't be attacks. What she is pointing out, well, here, she says it better than I could:

I'm not saying the other eight candidates should give up their bids for the Democratic presidential nomination. But some caution is advised.

The old pros would do better to accent their own solutions to the nation's problems, and there are plenty.

For example, Rep. Dick Gephardt, D-Mo., has offered a universal health care plan and has spotlighted the fact that trade globalization has sent U.S. jobs fleeing overseas.

But in the heat of the battle, most of the Democratic wannabes are busy hanging the "can't win against Bush" label on Dean and highlighting his perceived political gaffes.

[LuminousX]

26. It is about appropriate attacks and combining attacks with issues

When Dean was an asterisk, to get media attention he needed to attack. Did he expect reciprocity? Absolutely. No one runs for President without expecting to get attacked. The question and concern, as Helen puts forth, is his rivals have really lost sight of what is important. There is a time for reciprocity, for attacking, and there is a time to pull back.

[blm]

36. Why is it time to pull back now?

That's saying Dean is the nominee. The inevitability game is standard for the gOp and Dean camp wants to play it for themselves. Screw that BS.

[LuminousX]

38. Then go ahead, I'm just quoting Helen Thomas

I'm not saying she sets the rules of the game. I'm just saying she's seen this game played more often than most of us on DU and when she says "It seems to me his competitors would do better to toot their own horns instead of tearing down a colleague," I'm not going to disagree with her.

[FubarFly]

41. The point is that if your candidate manages to win by

riding a wave of negativity, we will be too unfocused, divided, and demoralized to stand a chance in the GE's.

Say what you want about Dean, (and you will :-)), but his overall campaign message is one of hope. Maybe it is too late for John Kerry to fashion a similar message, but it would hard to argue that he offers one now.

[blm]

52. Then why do 70% of Dems see hope elsewhere and see anger in Dean?

Dean threw alot of elbows and accusations. His attacks were many times disingenuous. He was downright CRUEL attacking Kerry while he was laid up with his cancer surgery and off the trail.

Look at the date of that article. April....Dean had been attacking others publicly since Jan.23.

[LuminousX]

62. 70% Which poll are you looking at or is 'data interpretation?'

[blm]

73. Most Dems support others.

What's the mystery? It's not like they haven't heard about Dean when the media shoves him down our throats for almost a year now.

[LuminousX]

85. And how is that different than any other election?

Efforts to interpret the fact that in a field of 9, Dean is only getting the plurality (running neck and neck with Clark at the moment on the national level) that those who have chosen to support someone above Dean, hate Dean.

I have chosen Dean above Kerry, but would support Kerry in a minute if Dean dropped out.

Crafty data interpretation... incorrect, but crafty.

[FubarFly]

63. That's misleading. Dean is the frontrunner and at this

stage the most likely nominee.

blm, I wish politics wasn't as nasty and as dirty as it is. It's a fucking brutal process. Kerry is a not only a fine man, but he's a seasoned veteran as well. There was nothing that Dean dished out that he couldn't take. There was nothing about Dean's attacks, or Kerry's counterattacks, that was abnormal for a presidential campaign.

And for the record, when Dean started his attacks on Kerry, I was a Kerry supporter. I didn't take the process personally then, and I certainly don't now.

I am truly sorry if you feel otherwise.

[polpilot]

81. blm..Didn't you mean 700% of democrats oppose Dean. Isn't that what

you REALLY mean?

Dean '04...

[blm]

84. No, that's YOUR style. I believe in accuracy.

.

[mouse7]

107. then dump that April USA Today article from your "toolbag" n/t

[KittyWampus]

59. So Helen Thomas Uses Hyberbole & Weakens Her Case

For the record this is a critique of what Helen wrote. NOT an attack. In principle I agree with her as with Krugman. But why she focuses on others attacks on Dean when she could just as well focus on Dean's attacks on everyone else to date shows some POTENTIAL bias.

She also uses hyperbole:

"But in the heat of the battle, most of the Democratic wannabes are busy hanging the "can't win against Bush" label on Dean and highlighting his perceived political gaffes."

First of all, are Dean's rivals literally "busy hanging the can't win against Bush label on Dean"?
No, they are mainly making a case for themselves and occassionally pointing out the inconsistencies in his record & rhetoric or highlighting their strengths & contrasting them with Dean's weaknesses.

If the media had done their work... Kerry Gep etc. wouldn't have to be pointing out Dean's inconsistencies, lies, etc.

Second, are Dean's political gaffes "percieved" or real?
Dean and his campaign's numerous gaffes are not "percieved". If anyone denies them... then they are indeed blinded by something.

Examples of obvious gaffes:

Allowing Rebel Flag comment to consume an entire News Cycle before apologising.
Allowing Dean's Records to consume an entire News Cycle and STILL allowing it to fester.
Saying that he wanted Records sealed for ten years (longer than usual) for political reasons ie his Presidential ambitions
Using an infantile "I'll show mine if he shows his" after having had 2 years to come up with something better
Lieing about the Records needing to be sealed cause of gay people... then admitting this wasn't true... then going back to the original lie.
Saying Osama shouldn't be prejudged then calling the press for a "do-over" & saying he deserves the death penalty.
Saying he's now going to talk about Religion
Saying he knows alot about the bible then saying Job is in the New Testament
Jay Carson saying 9/11 could not have been predicted when trying to cover Dean's ass regarding Nuclear Safety in Vermont under his tenure.
Staffers getting busted discussing how to go negative against Clark

Why didn't Helen Thomas say something when Dean starting slinging mud many moons ago?

By the way, calling Clark a Republican until 25 days ago was a blantant lie.
Saying Clark has a lifetime of voting Republican is also a blantant lie.

[Padraig18]

23. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!

:nopity:

[zulchzulu]

93. Dean bears no responsibility, just like Bush's antics

Anyone who dares to talk about Dean's many weaknesses is one or more of these things:

1. A media whore
2. A presstitute
3. Bush-lite
4. Anti-anti-democratic party Democrat
5. Someone who hasn't seen the inner magic in Howard's eyes
6. Probably from Vermont when he was governor

[RetroLounge]

102. So you quote the headline of an RNC Email?

as proof?

The RNC made up the headline, remember. Not Dean.

[mouse7]

106. There's that GOP e-mail again

You've had two days no to google up a better piece of evidence than that article which quotes a piece of GOP e-mail. It was written by a GOP staffer, sent to GOP members on a GOP mailing list.

The supposed offending Dean quote does not appear in the article.

[WillyT]

20. Right On Helen !!!

If those wounds don't heal, and I mean the wounds suffered by ALL the candidates and their supporters...

4 more years of facist shit.

:puke:

[libview]

40. Helen is right!!!!

Dean is going to be the nominee, that's a fact. The other candidates need to accept that, drop out of the race, and kiss the doctors ring.
/sarcasm....

[LuminousX]

43. Let me quote Helen to you

I'm not saying the other eight candidates should give up their bids for the Democratic presidential nomination. But some caution is advised.

Now how ridiculous does your sarcasm look?

[libview]

89. Not ridiculous at all.

There are eight other candidates running, and they all want to be president. There is plenty of time to get behind the nominee and defeat Bush, but the primary must play out.
Dean is so far ahead of everyone else, the others must take him down if they want to stand a chance of getting the nomination.

If Dean can't take the heat now, what's going to happen when the Republican machine gets going on him? Clark, Gephart, and the rest of the candidates may be sitting around wondering what Helen Thomas advises them to do, but somehow I doubt it.

nice try though.

[RetroLounge]

103. Try reading the black parts on the page

In the article we call them words...

[libview]

140. Your just mad because your candidate

is making an ass out of himself every chance he gets. He he gets the nomination, were dead.

[windansea]

42. why listen to Helen

when you can listen to Maaaaaaaaaaaaadooooooooonnnnnnaaaaaa

[WillyT]

45. Because Helen Is Smart, And Madonna..............

well, you get the idea.

:hi:

[Scott Lee]

68. ....is a semi-literate hasbeen now dining on kidney pie.

[LuminousX]

72. ....is a 80's pop-star who hasn't ever been political before.

[deminflorida]

82. Well if I had my way I'd damn sure rather look at Madonna than

Helen....

[mouse7]

109. And EVERYONE HAS seen Madonna naked, so...

...there is a immense potential pool of those to question.

When does the "Madonna Naked for Young Readers" children's book come out anyway?

[RetroLounge]

105. Madonna has never been elected to public office

sounds familiar...

[Kahuna]

46. I just sent Ms. Thomas the azcentral.com article...

about Dean's plans for Wesley Clark. I recommended that she not waste her sympathy on Dean as he is reaping what he has sown and what he plans to continue to sow.

[LuminousX]

47. Yeah, I'm sure she was clueless when she wrote her opinion piece

[Kahuna]

74. If she wasn't clueless she would be a hypocrite...

I prefer to believe she was taken in by Dean's "why me" act. Now she knows, "why him."

[FubarFly]

76. Are you intentially missing the point, Kahuna?

The GOP is starting to unleash the heavy cannons. If we don't get our ship in order soon, we will all be sunk. I am not your enemy, and you are not mine. Let's focus our anger where it belongs.

And by all means, promote Clark, vote for Clark, and speak out against Dean when and where you disagree. But what I am asked you is to not aid or abet in the "goring" of Dean. Does that sound unreasonable to you?

[WillyT]

49. I'm Sure She'll Be Printing A Retraction Any Day Now... NOT !!!

:eyes:

[blm]

54. send this one, too.

USA Today, April 28, 2003
>>>>
"Until now, the competition has been relatively harmonious, at least for public consumption, with the exception of Dean. His attacks on fellow Democrats have been so cutting that sometimes the Republican National Committee e-mails them to party members. "Gephardt Plan: 'Pie-In-The-Sky Radical Revamping' " was the headline on one last week, quoting Dean.

Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri have been Dean targets in recent weeks. But Dean has reserved his sharpest thrusts for Kerry, repeatedly accusing him of selling out Democratic principles. The two men are virtually tied for the lead in polls in New Hampshire, which holds the critically important first primary election."
>>>>>
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-28-dem-words_x.htm

[Padraig18]

71. How many times today will that partcular quote be SPAM-ed?

Should I take off my shoes, or will my fingers be enough to keep count, blm? :eyes:

[mouse7]

112. yes... send GOP e-mail for the GOP. The GOP loves that

You need another article. Quoting GOP e-mail proves nothing.

[FubarFly]

57. Wesley is not without sin.

There is a message here for Dean and his supporters as well. Helen is giving wise advice to ALL Democrats.

[mouse7]

110. I trust Helen Thomas's ability to make decisions.

I don't know you. If you challenge Helen Thomas' decision-making abilities, That means I am guaranteed to distrust your decision making abilities, not Helen Thomas'.

[bain_sidhe]

51. Alright Helen!

It seems to me his competitors would do better to toot their own horns instead of tearing down a colleague. ... They should be guided by the maxim: "United we stand. Divided we fall."

Hmm, can we use this for a defense when Clark (or any other candidate besides Dean) is attacked too? I can see the mind of a Dean supporter now...

She said it about Dean, so it's true... but it's being used to defend against our attack, so it can't be true... but she said it about Dean, so it's true... but it's being used to defend against our attack, so it can't be true... but she said it about Dean, so it's true... but it's being used to defend against our attack, so it can't be true... but she said it about Dean, so it's true... but it's being used to defend against our attack, so it can't be true... but she said it about Dean, so it's true... but it's being used to defend against our attack, so it can't be true... but she said it about Dean, so it's true... but it's being used to defend against our attack, so it can't be true... but she said it about Dean, so it's true... but it's being used to defend against our attack, so it can't be true...

Then their brain seizes up and fries, and Clark wins!!

Ok, I can live with that.

*edit: tyop*

[LuminousX]

60. Applies to ALL DEMOCRATS

[slinkerwink]

75. Bravo for Helen Thomas!

[libview]

90. whenever I see that picture, I see Dean singing

"why's everybody always pickin on me"?

[FubarFly]

91. Good question.

Nocturnal
Badgers are nocturnal and rarely seen during the day. When not active, badgers usually lie up in an extensive system of underground tunnels and nesting chambers, known as a sett. Occasionally, when the weather is particularly hot, badgers may briefly come above ground during daytime.

This is normally as an act of desperation, as they will be trying to get water to drink. The kindest thing you can probably do for them is to leave out a large metal tray of fresh, clean water; as this will help stop them getting even more dehydrated.

Grooming
Badgers take considerable care over their grooming. Scent plays an important part in the social hierarchy too. Adults set scent on each other and on cubs - in this way a composite smell characteristic of the whole community can create the smell of the group. This smell will be different from that of neighbouring groups and helps recognition of friends and strangers. Adults are at their lowest weight in the spring as territorial behaviour by the boars and suckling by the sows will have reduced their stored fat to a minimum.

Social Animals
Badgers are social animals, often living in large groups of adults and young. They are nocturnal, which means they usually leave their setts at dusk or later. They emerge cautiously, sniffing and listening for signs of danger. Once they are sure it is safe, they leave to groom, play and forage.

Eyesight
The badger's eyes are quite small, and its eyesight is not particularly good. Also, like many other animals, badgers cannot see anything in colour, only black, grey and white.
Whilst they cannot see details very well, they can make out shapes, and movements.
Cubs do not open their eyes until they are 5 weeks old.



http://www.badgerland.co.uk/animals/lifestat.html


:evilgrin:

[xultar]

80. And foot from mouth n/t

[Duder]

83. The First Lady of the Press

On target as usual.

[Printer70]

87. Clark has NEVER told us what he'd stand for

Dean has been CLEAR in opposing the war in Iraq, his support for health care for all and repeal of Bush's tax cuts for the rich.

Clark has waffled on Iraq, has no domestic record to speak of, and has offered more irresponsible tax cuts that will further our deficit crisis.

Why are we voting for Clark again? Oh yeah, because he's "electable" (despite polling results showing otherwise).

[rogerhall]

124. You're listening to Lieberman and not reading Clark, apparantly. :} -eom-

[Forkboy]

88. This part is soooooo true

Personally, I have never seen so much antagonism directed at a candidate by other members of the same party.

I haven't either,and it's pathetic.We deserve whatever shitstorm rains down on us. :puke:

[zulchzulu]

92. Helen Thomas is a presstitute and a media whore

Oh wait. She said something positive (sort of) about Dean.

Never mind. She's a goddess.

[AnnabelLee]

95. Helen Thomas has always been held in high regard at DU

I don't think I've ever seen anyone call her a presstitute or a mediawhore:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=777537

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=717453

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=694104

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=610364

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=396011

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=137080#137085

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=126946

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=99722

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID12/1714.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID45/1779.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID22/1408.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID45/1689.html

[zulchzulu]

130. You don't get the joke either...

I like and respect Helen.

I just find the people who call journalists such accusations such as "presstitute", "media whore", "repug-this, repug-that" that have articles not expressing utter love for Dean to be hypocritical and transparent.

I suppose if Helen does make a comment that is not favorable to Dean, she'll be called out as a "presstitute", "media whore" or whatever...

[WillyT]

104. There Is Nonething That I Can Say To You About That Remark...

that won't get me banned from this place!!!

So I will only say, HOW DARE YOU!!!

All further views from you are suspect, to say the LEAST!!!

:puke:

I dare you to say that to your candidate if you ever get to meet him. I'm quite confident he'd tell ya to shove it where the sun don't shine!

:mad:

[Forkboy]

116. Unbelievable

The rules prevent me from saying what needs to be said to you zulch.If you truly believe that....fuck it.You aren't worth the warning.

[zulchzulu]

128. You don't get the joke

I've seen people here on DU give that kneejerk reaction when a journalist they might agree with on another set of issues call that journalist a "media whore", a "presstitute" or worse if they don't give a glowing review of Howard Dean.

I like Helen a lot. I just thought that if she had said something bad about Howard, the same people praising her and wanting to kiss her feet would be insulting her...

[Forkboy]

135. Nope,I didn't get it

My honest apologies then.

[Rowdyboy]

121. An attack on Helen Thomas is cheap, trashy, and utterly uncalled for

I disagree with Ms Thomas' endorsement of governor Dean but that doesn't change the fact that she's one of the rare journalists with the guts to tell the truth.

[John_H]

125. I think you missed the joke.

The poster was alluding to Dean supporters' namecalling of respected and friendly pundits unless they glow about Dr. Dean. This above post is a satiric allusion to such posts.

[zulchzulu]

127. Thank you!

You got it!

Some people don't. :->

[Rowdyboy]

132. A bit too deep for me

n/t

[WillyT]

141. Hey Zulch... Apparently It Went Way Over My Head Too !!!

Next time explain, or use the </sarcasm> thingy to let us all know.

If you read the entire thread, you'll find a number of people taking wacks at Helen. I'm bettin that she hopes one of the Dems can knock this putrid putz out of the White Hose too. And she's been around presidential politics for a looooonnnggg time. She seems to be worried, IMHO, not so much about Dean, but about the crippling damage we partisan Dems may be inflicting on our various candidates. She seems to think it's 'different' this time around. And I concur.

This is not your regular primary rough-and-tumble, there is something way deeper going on here. And we don't need a crippled candidate, and party, going forward after July.

Sorry I missed your joke.

:shrug:

[retyred]

94. Poor Helen

I had no idea.


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[arewethereyet]

101. two points

the arrows are the only thing keeping him from bleeding to death.

she must be getting old if she can't recall anything like this.

[molly]

108. Alrighty then - Helen is not throwing her support behind Dean

she is simply saying that we are divided - which of course we are - initiated, I might add, by the great Dr. Dean himself. This comment from Helen's article is very lightening and very telling......

Dean told reporters last month in Ames, Iowa, "If we had strong leadership in the Democratic Party, they would be calling those other candidates and saying, 'Hey look, somebody's going to have to win.' "

But a day later Dean telephoned McAuliffe, apparently to apologize or explain his remarks.

Dr. Dean always seems to be apologizing and/or explaining. Why is that?

[RetroLounge]

111. Kerry is always voting with Bush*

why is that?

[molly]

114. The topic of this thread is self explanatory

this was posted last August and expresses lightly Dean's wavering stances

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=208342

But this thread is far more telling...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=887431

And, this one is the zinger.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=872306

WHO the heck IS Howard Dean?"

[zulchzulu]

131. Back up your claim...

[Forkboy]

134. Not true Retro

[FubarFly]

113. If you want someone who never apologizes or explains,

then vote for Bush.


Some people like Dean's style of talking. Some people like that he is not so scripted as to make mistakes. And while his wording may sometimes be off, his point is generally dead on. This is far more of an asset than a liability. Dean has built the largest grassroots organization in modern political times- his frankness and sincerity are a big reason why. Dean does have to be careful of having his words misconstrued by the media and his more unscrupulous opponents- but when he does clarify his remarks, it often has the effect of making his detractors look petty.
If the Dean detractors were as hard on people in the real world as the are on Dean on this anonymous board- they wouldn't have many friends. If we held up any politician to the impossible standards some people set for Dean, we would never field a candidate.

[John_H]

115. Helen's worried that Dean will win and be too weak to beat bush.

She and others are going to have to get used to the notion that a huge number of Democrats believe that Dean is too weak to beat Bush under any circumstances--and thus that the general election is being decided as the primary votes come in.

I love Helen, but strongly disagree with her thinking here.

[Forkboy]

119. There's only 2 Clark supporters on DU I respect

and thankfully neither of them are on this thread,because the people trashing Helen are the lowest of the low,and they deserve zero respect from any thinking person.

[Rowdyboy]

122. Forkboy

I'm sure you would find a huge majority of Clark supporters who share your respect for Ms Thomas (I know I do). This thread is disgusting but evidently the mods think its okay since it hasn't yet been locked.

I don't agree with Ms Thomas' endorsement of Dean but that in no way lessens my respect for her and her work.

[Forkboy]

123. Ok...make it 3

:)

Unfortunately many Clark (and Kerry) supporters on this thread lack the class you're displaying.

For the record I dont agree with her endorsement of him either.

Thanks for your words Rowdyboy.

[John_H]

126. Where are the attacks? Did you bother to read the posts? No?

As far a s Clark supporters go, I see a few complaints. A joke or two, but no attacks at all.

I suggest you see the threads on Phillips, Carville, O'Donnell, etc. if you want to see Classless attacks on friendly journalists.

And as per usual they're all by Dean supporters.

[Hawkeye-X]

133. Provide proof that Dean attacked the candidates

Nope.. You won't find one.

[John_H]

138. My point is that Dean supporters attack Dem pundidts who

point out that Dean cant win. I think Howard Dean is so far running an excellent, honest campaign.

[Greyhawk]

136. Part of the primary process

Anybody actually remember Bill Bradley and Al Gore in 2000? Primaries are SUPPOSED to be tough... That's what gets the candidate ready for the general election.

Complaining about it is fine too. If we don't have a frank debate (even an acrimonious one) we run the risk of having just a platitudes president who doesn't stand for anything.

[PatrickS]

139. Thank you Helen!!!!

Nice to hear a voice of reason. Democrats are really self-hating idiots to engage in this kind of behavior!