Cuba will become Obamas First Major Crisis

[SwampG8r]

im saying it now
when fidel dies there will be a chance to bring them into the democratic fold
to ignore it will lead to a major cuban civil war
and it will happen before............august 6 2009
thats my prediction

oh and im predicting that a free cuba will become the jewel of the caribbean

[Hutzpa]

1. So will Iraq,

so will Israel,

so will Afghanistan

so will Europe,

so will the Economy

so will same sex marriage,

so will racial profiling

get my drift, the sooner we stop
anticipating what will become
Obama's major issue the better
it will be for all of us, he has
shown me enough to trust his decision.



PEACE!!!

[Billy Burnett]

24. Obama Flip Flops position on Cuban Embargo

In the video forum

Obama Flip Flops on Cuban Embargo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x239964


He was against it.
Until he came to campaign in Miami.
Now he supports the embargo.
Same old shit. Different day.

[Doityourself]

34. so you keep saying and posting over and over....get over yourself! Cuba is not that f'n important!

[Judi Lynn]

35. Thanks for the link. n/t

[Billy Burnett]

38. You're welcome.

It seems that posting a couple of threads/links about Obama's Cuban policy gets in the way of some DUers latest feeding at the dozens-of-Sarah-Palin-news-stories trough. :shrug:

[cayanne]

42. Hi to you too Judi

:hi:

[cayanne]

41. Hi Billy

Maybe one day we can still meet in Havana. :hi:

[Billy Burnett]

45. A blast from the past! A BIG hello to you, bevb.

GREAT to see you here! :hi: You, Judi, and I - still at it, pushing that boulder uphill. Seeing you here is like a reunion of sorts. :grouphug:

I hope to see more of you around these here parts. :loveya:

When that wonderful time comes, the first round of real Havana Club mojitos is on me. :toast:


Bev, check out DU's Latin America Forum. There's some fantastic and well informed posters over there. Most of the Cuba threads are relegated over there (many breaking news threads on Cuba don't qualify as real breaking news of interest to some of DU's mods).

[demosincebirth]

2. He will open trade relations with Cuba in his first year

[SwampG8r]

4. i hope so

the foods awesome
i hear the diving is great
and i can make havana in 4 hours or so from the tortugas
woohoo

[demosincebirth]

5. they'll get some new parts for those vintage cars they drive.

[BrotherBuzz]

19. The parts needed for the Cuban fleet of aging American cars are shipped from Canada and Mexico

[Billy Burnett]

22. Those old cars are disappearing. Newer Asian cars are taking over.

Too bad that Americans are kept in a dark corner on Cuba topics. :dunce: Banned by their own government from seeing the real Cuba for themselves.

Meanwhile tourists and visitors pour in to Cuba from all corners of the world (except from the US), rent a small Asian car, and drive anywhere they want to in Cuba just as I have.

[tech3149]

7. I hope so

One of the worst things we have done in the last 40 years has been to punish Cuba to control the "communist menace". I would love to see normal and friendly relations with a country that has never done us any harm.

[John Q. Citizen]

3. Yes, it will look like a free Haiti or a free Dominican Republic, or a free Jamaica.

A few wealthy and lots and lots of dirt poor people without any health care.

[AndyTiedye]

11. Democracy != Laissez Faire Capitalism

It is not at all clear that a democratic Cuba would vote to let the robber barons run amok.

They might very well vote to remain communist (which would REALLY piss off the robber barons).

[John Q. Citizen]

15. I recall they were pissed off in Chile back in the 70s.

[AndyTiedye]

13. dup

dup due to flakey network connection.

[Unsane]

6. Obama could seal FL for Dems

[WinkyDink]

8. Normalize relations. End of "crisis".

[On the Road]

9. Once Fidel Dies,

do you think Raoul will change the direction of the country? Or that the US will use the opportunity to change policy?

Obama might normalize relations, but if he maintains the status quo I suspect it will be the first non-Castro who causes the change.

[1Hippiechick]

10. Shades of JFK and the Cuban missle crisis - that is the first thing I thought of! :(

[One Taste]

12. west wing insanity

santos obama
mcgarry biden
emmanuel lyman

pilot ep of west wing has the cuban refugees in boats coming into miami

[rug]

14. What crisis? Just lift the fucking embargo. Crisis solved.

[1corona4u]

16. I wonder if Cubans who came to the US would go back then....

after Fidel dies....or do more of them come here.....

[Eryemil]

23. Most of us that have left the island in recent years have not done so for political reasons

Cuba is a poor country. People from poor nations like to immigrate to richer ones.

The fact that Castro's a dictator's hardly the most pressing matter on the minds of those wishing to leave.

[1corona4u]

28. News flash, LOL...we're a poor country now too.

:hi:

[Eryemil]

29. I get the feeling you'd drown yourself if you experienced real poverty

[1corona4u]

31. No, I'd do whatever it took to get out of it.

I've been pretty close a couple of times in my life. But I managed to overcome.

[Forkboy]

32. A lot of DUers are clueless about actual poverty.

You'll get used to it.

[cali]

17. I doubt it.

It's more likely to be the mideast that becomes his first crisis. Either something in Iraq or the Israelis making a move against Iran directly or by proxy, or some new event in I/P.

[Orsino]

18. Cuba is gonna have to get in line.

The economy and Iraq are crises already in progress.

[Billy Burnett]

20. Bullshit.

On what do you base your predictions on? Ever been to Cuba? Know any Cubans in Cuba? I have, and I do.

They'll be no Cuban civil war when Fidel dies. The transfer of leadership has already gone on without any disruptions. Cubans like Raul.

Cubans know FULL WELL what American "liberation" means.

The US gov has a shock doctrine plan already on the shelf - The Cuba Transition Plan, formulated by Cuba's most notorious enemies in Miami. The plan reads just like L Paul Bremer's "100 laws" that mandated privatization of Iraq's infrastructure. Under the US's Cuba Transition Plan ALL of Cuba's infrastructure will be handed over to preselected corporations who will run Cuba's water, sewer, communications, radio and TV, privatize their world class universal health care system, privatize their universal education system, and on and on.

This plan is well publicized in Cuba. It scares the crap out of them that the US is so brazen as to formulate such an evil plan for their country.


FYI, the MOST popular TV show in Cuba (The Round Table) is a nightly discussion show that has been reviewing and discussing in great detail with guests from around the world, Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine - the rise of disaster capitalism.

Cubans have stuck together behind their system, and will continue to do so, because they know only too well what the US/IMF alternatives are.

[Terran]

25. That 'civil war' reference struck me also

From information I've seen over the past few years, there's a high degree of loyalty among Cubans generally to the system they now have. Despite our pig-headed insistence on freezing them out of our economy, they have done well for themselves. I'd be happy to see things loosen up there culturally and for them benefit from trade with the US, but I'm afraid it would also be sacrificing some of the achievements they've made in education and health.

[Billy Burnett]

26. Cuba has always put more of their GDP into ed and health care than most countries.

I see no reason that Cuba would stop that practice.

www.twnside.org.sg/title/learn.htm

Cuba has a large tourism infrastructure, much of it being joint ventures with the Cuban government (in which the Cuban government retains majority interest plus the improvements on property and development) - on Cuba's terms - and there's been no shortage of takers.

It's only the US that has locked US businesses out, not Cuba. Cuba is ready to deal with future US business expansion, but only on their terms.

[Terran]

27. Agreed with all you say.

I just fear the way American culture seems to poison other countries with consumerism and general vacuity. A tricky thing to prevent.

I recall a documentary about Cuba that aired year ago, probably early nineties, and it showed a lot of average people interacting on the street and in cafes. I vividly recall an image of some fairly grungy-looking men chatting on a sidewalk, they looked like bikers or something, fairly rough...and in fact they were having a rather intellectual discussion about politics and social theory. Seems like the average Cuban is probably far better educated than the average American, so I just fear that achievement being diluted by letting the US "in", so to speak.

[Doityourself]

36. And it is a great number of Cubans that lobby to keep the current practices just as they are...n/t

[Eryemil]

21. Please stay out of my country. I've seen how you bring 'Democracy' to the oppressed masses

There are only 11 million people in Cuba. I don't think the country could cope with 1,000,000 casualties. Just saying.

On more serious note:

Raul's pretty much leading the country right now. Whatever you're thinking will happen once Fidel dies; it probably won't. I do believe that the stage is set for a change in relations between Cuba and the US however. With Obama taking the presidency and Raul taking over as leader it'll be much easier. He's much more of a pragmatist than his brother.

I am personally hoping the bloody embargo will finally be lifted. When Americans discuss my country they rarely think about the Cuban people. All they talk about is politics and history.

NOTHING will help Cubans more right now than better relations with the US.

[rvablue]

30. Haven't seen any mention of it on the MSM, but both the Russian and Chinese president

went to Cuba this week.

[Judi Lynn]

33. Canadian and European DU'ers who have come and gone to Cuba regularly

have a hard time coming to grips with the fact Americans see Cuba in the manner we do. They have been vacationing in Cuba for years, and an original DU'er, Freecancat, who was banned due to her great impatience with our absolute ignorance about the place said that they all are hoping it will be impossible for hordes of Americans to invade Cuba for years to come.

They sincerely don't welcome the prospect of a major tourist invasion from the States, when they have an ideal, unspoiled tourist spot to themselves, a real phenomenon.

US Congresses have been passing legislation for years to remove the travel ban, aspects of the embargo, etc., only to have the right-wing tear it all out in committee, so it never saw the light of day. They considered it a necessity when _Bush was in the White House, as they didn't want to expose him to undue scrutiny by forcing him to use his veto, if they failed to remove the Cuba language first. They didn't want him to have to fight this thing in public. His father, and _{Jeb Bush} have been connected with the Cuban right-wing, violent reactionary faction for ever, up over their snouts in Cuban/American fascist politics.

A recent Gallup poll indicates the majority of Americans do approve of establishing diplomatic relations with Cuba already, right now, HAVE BEEN ready to throw out the embargo, travel ban, the whole, filthy mess.

It should have already been put behind us long ago, instead of continuing a festering, poisonous plan among the right-wing Cuban mafia maggots who have been driven OUT of Cuba, to rush back in and seize control again. They are the reason the revolution was fought in the first place. Look at the wreckage they made of the U.S. political system in Florida, for chrissakes. Miami was named by the FBI "America's Terror Capital" within years of their infesting the place and engulfing the town in carbombings, firebombings, internecine power struggles, horrendous violence, even carbombing a Cuban radio show host, Emilio Milián who spoke out on his talk show, begging them to put aside violence.

Here's a look at the environment surrounding free speech in Miami, the New Cuba destination for the old US-supported death squad loving regime supporters:

In February 1992, a few weeks after the militant exile group Alpha 66 demonstrated outside the radio station, three men broke into the building late on a Sunday night, looking for Aruca. Informed he wasn't there, they beat and tied up the operations manager and ransacked the station. Terrorists have also firebombed Marazul Charters--in 1989 and again in 1996--attacks that Aruca says were directed at his radio program. No one was arrested in any of the incidents and police never accused Alpha 66 of a link to the beatings at the station. "We have constant pressure on us," says Aruca. "We are a well-listened-to program, but companies cannot advertise with us. They are afraid."

Aruca is not the only journalist who has been targeted in Miami. Emilio Milian, the general manager of another Miami radio station, WWFE 550-AM, has sharply criticized anti-Castro terrorism. He lost both legs when his car was blown up in 1976.

Human Rights Watch/Americas issued reports in 1992 and 1994 that condemned the perils to free expression in Miami and warned that right-wing radio stations were inciting groups to violence. "Only a narrow range of speech is acceptable, and views that go beyond these boundaries may be dangerous to the speaker," said the 1994 report, the last study the group made of the region.

http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=766

These is only a tiny glimpse of the people who triggered the revolution. Cubans don't want this BACK.

[yellowcanine]

37. Cuba will not qualify as a crisis even when Fidel dies. There will be no civil war.

My opinion. Mostly a strong hunch. No empirical data.

[Billy Burnett]

40. There will be massive collective grief when Fidel dies. It will be a national day of remembrance.

After all, he is akin to the US's George Washington. He is THE founding father of the Cuban Revolution for their independence. He is the successful leader against the US invasion of Cuba spearheaded at the Bay of Pigs. He was never behind the scenes at the moments of greatest danger. He was on the front lines, defending Cuba's sovereignty with his life. He has dedicated his entire life to Cuba's sovereignty.

Cubans in Cuba honor him for that, and for that he will be revered in Cuba forever.

If Americans don't like that- too bad. Get over it. That's just the way it is.

[Judi Lynn]

44. There was no secret that when he fainted in public several years ago after speaking for hours

under a blazing sun, and people thought he had passed on, people in their chairs in the audience were weeping, some sobbing. It was noted even in wire service stories published here.

They were deeply disturbed thinking the worst had happened, and that was no act.

[Billy Burnett]

46. Cubans were just as horrified after he tripped and fell down some steps at a ceremony.

The old buzzard tried to stay and finish the event, but he had to leave he was in such pain. Turned out that he broke his knee, elbow, and wrist and was wheelchair bound for months.

The DU contingent of hateful Cubaphobes were yucking it up and having a jolly old time with the many YouTube videos of him taking the spill - as if seeing a genuinely heroic old man fall down steps and being injured is a comical event worthy of derision. If you can stomach it, check the expressions of horror on the faces of the attendees of that event also.

Cubans of all ilk sent an outpouring of concern and well-wishes to him. By the thousands, Havana residents would walk up to the front door of his residence to place letters, flowers, teddy bears and get well cards, in person to his mailbox while he was recuperating there.

The main reason that Americans have no idea of the real feelings of respect for their aged revolutionary war hero that Cubans have, is because Americans are travel banned by their own government from going and seeing first hand.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Cuba is already in the democratic fold. America is the one in dictatorship

and it will remain so until someone comes along and restores the Constitution as the Law of the Land.

The Miami reactionaries live in a delusional world of their own making.

[happychatter]

43. will there be gambling, prostitution and cheap cocaine?

just sayin'

what brought Cuba OUT of the fold?

if the US does ONE right thing, regarding any nation south of the border, regardless of Obama's presidency, I'll be shocked and delighted

neoliberal, exploitive, extractive, anti-democratic machinations have been our abiding modus operandi for a LONG time, whether Democratic, or Republican Administrations