Abraham Lincoln: "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"

[Jackeens]

Just saying.

[bdamomma]

1. or

keep your friends close and your enemies closer?

[Jennicut]

2. Damn. That Lincoln guy was a smart dude. Who was he again?

[Gruenemann]

9. Lincoln? He was an inexperienced senator from Illinois. eom

[Critters2]

15. Actually, he was never a senator from Illinois. He lost that election to Douglas. nt

[mmonk]

3. As long as they are enemies.

[scheming daemons]

4. Nope.... we have to act EXACTLY like the repukes..... you don't get it

:eyes:


We have to treat them the way they treated us the past 8 years.



Forget about "breaking the cycle"..... we need our revenge

[Dr Fate]

11. Revenge is a strawman. So is "bipartisanship". It's about competence & loyalty.

If "Bipartisanship" is really the issue, then why dont we let other "qualified" Republicans keep their positions as well?

The pro-Lieberman spin is "this is all about Bush style Revenge"- and I'm not buying it.

[high density]

12. One could argue Dodd, et al are being loyal to their friend, Joe LIEberman

I mean these people are human beings and coworkers after all.

[Dr Fate]

14. They could have continued to be co-workers & human beings either way.

I dont see your point at all. Either Lieberman and McCain are competent and right on the issues, or they are not.

[WinkyDink]

5. And there was a bloody war to defeat them. Just sayin'.

[phleshdef]

6. And who was the winner of that war? Just sayin'.

[Dr Fate]

7. Good excuse as any. Keep 'em coming.

Excuses for why we have to cave have always done well for us in the past, so why stop now?

Here is mine:

"Maybe they know something we dont know, and they are playing rope-a-dope."

[Bluerthanblue]

22. how about "a house divided against itself cannot stand"?

where is the 'unity' in the "U"SA?

Is it merely geographical?

What makes 'us' any different than "them" if not the desire to live together peacefully?

[Democrats_win]

8. Abe Lincoln? Look how that turned out. Just saying

[high density]

13. That's a pretty fucked up "just saying"

Thanks, Sarah Palin.

[Renew Deal]

19. What does that mean?

What are you saying?

[Bluerthanblue]

20. turned out that Lincoln is recognized as one of the best leaders we've

ever had- :shrug:

Look at how Franklin Pierce's presidency turned out, if you want to make a statement about how poorly a president might govern-

That he was killed before he could carry out his plans for reconstruction is a damn shame, but it doesn't change the wisdom of his words or the value of his leadership during a very terrible time in our country's history.



peace~

[Mojambo]

10. Lincoln wasn't President in this sickening total media environment.

His "rivals" didn't have nearly the means to destroy him through it.

I'm just not sure the "team of rivals" management style will work nearly as well in this corporate media environment.

I guess we'll find out.

[Sebastian Doyle]

16. Lincoln's political rivals weren't calling him "a terrorist" or "a commie socialist"

And they weren't holding rallies where people were yelling out "kill him" or "he's a ni**er".

The only way to reasonably compare Lincoln's situation to the current reality would be if Lincoln rose from the dead and considered adding John Wilkes Booth to his cabinet.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. no- his rivals were intent on destroying him- and they did succeed

in ending his life, but not his ideals- or silence his voice, he still speaks today, as we are witnessing right now.

You might want to do a little research on how his 'political rivals' treated him- I'm not so sure that had he survived, he might not have found or created a position for Gen. R.E.Lee somewhere in his cabinet-

It's easy to think 'our' present is exceptional- and it is, to those of us living through it.


peace~

[Hippo_Tron]

26. Lincoln wanted Lee to lead the Union Army

And if he had the war would've been over a hell of a lot sooner. The one thing that the Confederacy had going for it was a series of fuck-ups that Lincoln put in charge of the Union Army until he found Grant.

[SweetieD]

21. actually Lincoln's rivals did call him a n--- & n-lover or the equivalent

I'm not saying the specific people who he nominated to his cabinet called him that, but his adversaries did express those sentiments.

[LostinVA]

23. They also did indeed hold rallies -- and print stuff -- calling for his death

[Bluerthanblue]

17. wisdom well spoken- even truer today than ever.

Revenge is not all it's cracked up to be.


IMO

[Thothmes]

24. Not familiar with this quote

When did Lincoln make this statement and what were the circumstances that led to the statment?

[JDwho]

25. kind of like, "killing them with kindness".

Obama's reading Lincoln's wise words, according to him, regularly.

[political_Dem]

27. The problem here is how long this "detente" between Obama and his enemies (rivals) will work out.

How is he going to "kill them with kindness" when they are plotting behind his back? How is he going to deal with the brouhaha of their schemes when they use any little slip up against him in order to promote themselves or others running in 2010 or 2012?

It's nice to embrace rivals. They do challenge your beliefs as well as point out your flaws.

But, it is rather a tough road (not to mention a lot of mental angst) to work with people who don't have your best interests and strive to undermine everything that you have planned to do. If there is a lesson in all of this "team of rivals" business is that you only have to ultimately watch your back without any acquiescence.

Trust is a great deal here. How can you work with people who will just about plant an axe in your back when you turn around for one moment?

The enemies will not follow what you dictate whether you hold them close or turn your back on them. They're going to do what they're going to do. There are always other ways to keep an eye on your enemies without having them sabotage everything that you have worked hard for.

(Which is the reason why the concepts of "frenemies" and "mean girls" sicken me. It amounts to a pretty toxic set up in which no one wins.)

[MrSlayer]

28. Barack Obama has qualities that Abe Lincoln was said to have.

We would be well served if he is half as great a political mind and President. Those are some seriously big shoes to fill. Obama, in my opinion, has a real opportunity and certainly has the potential to fill them and be Rushmore great. Let's hope for the best.

[Larkspur]

33. Lincoln's "team of rivals" was a myth

He stocked his cabinet with his former rivals, but they never became a team. Most worked against Lincoln and their enmity is one reason why the Civil War was a disaster for the Union in the early years. And by trying to please his enemies, Lincoln pissed off his friends, who ended up working against him.

Read the op ed by Dickinson College Pennsylvania Civil War history professor Matthew Pinsker, author of "Lincoln's Sanctuary: Abraham Lincoln and the Soldiers' Home" -- The myth of Lincoln and 'Rivals'

[BlooInBloo]

29. That's *one* possibility. The other is....

Only the fullness of time can determine which way it will go. History is suggestive, of course.

[JVS]

30. It's easier to make your rivals play nice when you suspend habeas corpus and toss people in jail.

It kind of makes them pause and reconsider their relationship with you.

[Honeycombe8]

31. And your point is....what? Who is it that you are saying is his enemy? ???? nt

[Larkspur]

32. Obama should read the fable "The Scorpion and the Frog"

http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html

Some enemies don't want to become friends. Lieberman is like the scorpion. when it benefits him, Lieberman will stab the Senate Dems and Obama in the back, just like he did in the 2008 general election campaign.