I know a lot of you are going to be really ticked at this idea...

[scubadude]

and I don't want to prejudge the Obama administration but I think someone should start a website called brokenpromises.org. Now more than ever we need to shed light on how all administrations perform as compared to their rhetoric.

As an Obama constituent and complete political junkie I noticed right off the bat how as a senator Obama seemed to profess a left of center view but vote more to the right of where I would like him.

A website like this could focus attention on keeping all our politicians honest. There could be local forums as well.

At any rate I hope the best for the upcoming Obama administration. I also believe we should be ready to support our ideals, especially when Dems are in office. Now is the time to anchor the national conversation back on the left and make sure our politicians live up to their promises.

Scuba

[firedupdem]

1. Disagree....people can't agree on the promise let alone what

was broken.

[tritsofme]

2. The RNC probably already bought the domain.

nt

[firedupdem]

3. exactly...they'll use it as a divide and conquer tool. n/t

[Township75]

4. I think it's a great idea.

What's wrong with pointing out where a politician went back on his or her promise? As long as the website covers all politicians and not just one, I think it is good.

[Solomon]

77. How come we wait until Obama to do this?

And if you do it, how bout going all the way back to George washington, just so's we'll have some perspective?

[Orsino]

108. It's already being done, under many, many domain names.

I don't see an obvious need for a new web site.

[Township75]

115. I'm not sure why we wait, but we shouldn't wait anymore.

If you want to go back to GW I say go for it too.

[DCBob]

5. Obama has most liberal voting record in the Senate.

Is that not good enough for you?

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. Bernie Sanders is going to be shocked to hear that.

I'll bet Russ Feingold and Barbara Boxer will too.

[DCBob]

9. It has been documented by the National Journal.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/

The ratings system -- devised in 1981 under the direction of William Schneider, a political analyst and commentator, and a contributing editor to National Journal -- also assigns "composite" scores, an average of the members' issue-based scores. In 2007, Obama's composite liberal score of 95.5 was the highest in the Senate. Rounding out the top five most liberal senators last year were Sens. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., with a composite liberal score of 94.3; Joseph Biden, D-Del., with a 94.2; Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., with a 93.7; and Robert Menendez, D-N.J., with a 92.8.

[Sebastian Doyle]

13. Well, if you want to take right wing rags seriously, I guess.

Just as long as you don't start believing the birth certificate horseshit.

[DCBob]

20. I know.

See below.

[Hippo_Tron]

56. The National Journal come to an inaccuerate conclusion with their data

Anybody who knows anything about the Senate knows that ideologically Bernie Sanders and Russ Feingold (amongst others) are ideologically to the left of Barack Obama. If the National Journal were to say that he had the most partisan voting record for a Democrat in 2007, that might be more accurate.

He also missed a lot of votes because he was campaigning which is how John Kerry won that same honor in 2003.

[No Elephants]

70. Before he announced his candidacy, though, the same people said he was the

16th most liberal. Either way, close enough.

[cali]

12. not even close

National Journal always calls any dem running "the most liberal". It's bullshit. Pat Leahy, Russ Feingold, Ted Kennedy, Bernie Sanders, Barbara Boxer and others- all way more liberal.

[DCBob]

16. Yeah, I know. I was just messing with the OP.

His point was even dumber.

[scubadude]

21. And I suppose it's ok that politicians lie when

they are your politicians. The end justifies the means eh?

Now that seems dumb to me...

Scuba

[DCBob]

23. Your point that Obama votes more right than he professes..

is dumb.

[scubadude]

31. Check his record.

He voted for FISA, and stood against the party on several issues as can be seen here:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/votes/against-party/

Some of those votes were bad in my opinion.

That isn't the point though. We must demand honesty no matter what party we are in. That is the problem. Too many folks accept it.

Scuba

[DCBob]

32. I agree with the honesty part....

but no politician in history has ever fulfilled all their campaign promises.

[scubadude]

34. I will agree with that.

Political races are run on ideals after all. It is once elections are decided that that those ideals are tossed out the window. We must be prepared to recognize if they are and have a place to stand up for what is right. We know the media won't do it. They will turn it into a Dem Repub thing, not a right vs wrong thing.

Don't you agree that if we calmly accept diversions from promise then we deserve what we get?

Scuba

[DCBob]

36. If Obama does not deliver on his key promises then absolutely we should raise our voices.

My biggest concern is getting out of Iraq. I am willing to make some reasonable compromises but we need to get out of there ASAP. If he waffles on that one I will be leading the protests to the WH.

[CreekDog]

74. It's not a dictatorship, Obama can't deliver anything that the public won't support

I think that's what you don't get.

[scubadude]

92. I get it CreekDog. Nothing is set in stone. Yet

I still I feel it is very important to track performance for all administrations.

One of Clintons biggest downfalls in my opinion was his failure to create a universal health care system. Of course he tried very hard but his team was a tight lipped non inclusive bunch and ultimately didn't get the job done. Of course the Repubs fiercely fought against it.

I would not consider this a broken promise though. It was more like a tactical failure. Had the Republicans been included in some form, there may have been a different outcome. Perhaps not, but at least if the fight was chronicled in a concise fashion on a website devoted to following just this sort of thing we would have a benchmark to look back on.

An analysis would have to be done to create just the right format to properly frame the factors required, but there are some very smart folks out there and I believe it is possible.

Scuba

[Hippo_Tron]

59. I think Jesse Ventura might have

Of course it helps when you don't promise a whole lot.

[PM7nj]

14. LOL.

[RC]

24. All that means is a republican is talking about someone who is a member of the Democratic party.

Nothing more. Hell, even Hillary was said to have the most liberal voting record in the senate. Some liberal there.

[rhett o rick]

65. You left off: "...according to Sean Hannity". nm

[scubadude]

93. I believe my idea is right in line with your sig line... nt

[LostinVA]

72. No, he doesn't

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

110. He's not even the most liberal Senator in his state.

Durbin was to the left of him.

[pnwmom]

6. Oh yeah, great idea!

:sarcasm:

The Rethugs would just LOVE this idea.

[scubadude]

18. Repugs will be on it too

We need to demand honesty from all our politicians. We have to get away
from the "end justifies the means" type thinking.

There could be a "Talk Back" section where the Pols explain their positions when they change. Almost an ongoing town hall meeting.

Somehow we have to create a voice of our own. Moveon.org and the like are good starts, but much needs to be done.

Scuba

[pnwmom]

25. But since Dems are the ones in power now, they're the ones to be hurt by this.

[scubadude]

35. So then your position is that because Dems are in office

that we suspend our requirements for honesty? The requirement for honesty may hurt the Dems?

I believe we are the honest ones, and ours are the honest positions. Don't you?

Scuba

[pnwmom]

48. No. I think should suspend

the degree of suspiciousness and distrust with which we've viewed the President. Bush has deserved it -- but Obama isn't Bush. I think we should give him a chance.

As far as broken promises go, sometimes as situations change, solutions have to change. There isn't necessarily anything terrible about a broken promise -- it all depends on the situation and why it was necessary.

[scubadude]

90. I agree that sometimes actions cannot always match

rhetoric due to circumstance. But what I fear is that the promises which were made (like windfall profit taxes upon the energy giants) will be slowly removed from public view, as has recently happened, without explanation.

We all know who and what this sounds like...

If you are going to change your platform explain yourself fully!

This is why it is so important to remain mindful of what promises were made and how they are being followed up on. Not everything promised is possible, but explanations are simple things...

Scuba

[Chulanowa]

63. no, he's saying it will be abused.

Especially if it wound up being like Wikipedia. Even if it doesn't, it then revolves around the opinion of site admin.

Either way, honesty is no guarantee, which is a pretty fatal irony in context.

Am I saying that such a site has absolutely no place? No. However, I will say such a site isn't deserved right now. It's been a month since the election. We're not going to see PRESIDENT Obama making any policy for another month and two weeks. If we're already gunning away at him, all that says is we're a bunch of assholes who can't extend any trust due to the office itself rather than any actions from that office.

[scubadude]

96. I agree that a site like this must not be like Wikpedia.

It must be done by professionals who are able to quantify statement vs action. I believe it can be done in a non partisan way that would give people actionable data.

As far as waiting, I disagree. We cannot allow ourselves to separate the words and ideas conveyed while wooing our votes from the real environment and situations our President elect is creating (and responding to). We must be prepared to call him when he is wrong as well as praise him when he is correct.

Scuba

[Chulanowa]

111. Yes, but he has to DO SOMETHING before we can call him on it

That's what you're missing. Now hey, I'm not exactly thrilled that he's not stocking the cupboard with lefties, but I can acknowledge that it's not as if there are a lot of actual progressives that CAN fill the various positions, without either removing them from the legislature or filling the executive with people who have pretty much no idea what's going on. I'd ratehr have a bunch of progressives in the lawmaking branch of the US government, anyway.

[liberalmuse]

8. I'm going to wait and watch for awhile...

before I decide whether or not Obama is actually breaking promises, or adjusting his policy as the situation changes. I'm not happy with some of the stories out there, however, there is a lot more to the stories than we are getting. I think it is a good idea to give the guy a break. He's inherited the most disastrous economy in decades and as he receives more info, he's obviously going to adjust the way he handles a situation.

[scubadude]

27. I agree

I am far from passing judgement, and have high hopes for the new admin. My wife and I were about 100 feet from Obama when he was declared winner, and if he performs as advertised, there will be no problem.
But we must demand is accountability. Remember, we are the idealists. I am encouraged that Obama has already claimed the "Buck Stops Here" position.

Let's be sure it does. For all politicians.

Scuba

[uppityperson]

42. You mean you want to wait until he is President before calling him out?

Me too. And then I would rather write him directly than participate in an "Obama lied" website, but hey. That's just me.

[scubadude]

49. Not just Obama, but surely not without him.

All our politicians need to be honest in my opinion.

I was there when he won. I listened to his words of hope as he made them, tears in my eyes, along with almost everyone else's. I even brought a lock of my recently deceased mother's hair with me because she was a great Obama supporter and would have liked to be there herself.

I also realize that when Shrub was "s"elected that there were many at his acceptance speech who teared up. Many who viewed his words of unity and compassionate conservatism as a Godsend. Many who believe he was a uniter not a divider. We saw how that turned out.

We must demand honesty from our elected officials, no matter who they are or what party they run in. To accept less is to accelerate the slide we are in.

Scuba

[uppityperson]

50. I've already started writing him, his group.

I don't see the need to start an "obama's lies" website though. I think there are enough people who will be doing so.

We must demand honesty from our elected officials for sure. One problem becomes language. What you think someone says may be different from what they said. What you wish someone would do may not happen. (using the royal "you"). I like the fact that he said he will not be perfect, he will make mistakes, he will represent all of us.

We need to make sure politicians stay as honest as possible. True.

[scubadude]

100. I agree, we don't need an Obama lies website.

But there must be an effort to codify how our officials are performing. Most of our media is woefully inadequate.

I agree that language is a problem. Many of you believe that I am somehow against Obama. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am for him in a big way, but if he falters we all must be prepared to point him back in the right direction. The site I propose would help us in that effort.

Scuba

[cali]

10. lol. knock yourself out.

I can think of some more appropriate names for your site though.

[quakerboy]

11. Odd

I'm pretty sure that every single R worth their salt has had that selfsame idea.

Its a tempting idea. But how is anyone going to tell the friendly fire from the Wackjobs? And who is the end arbiter of whether Obama is performing as he promised? One Person with an agenda, or an open forum where different people will have differing opinions as to whether Obama has delivered what he promised?

In the end, what would separate that website from DU itself? Why can we not fill that function perfectly adequately right here?

[scubadude]

41. Perhaps you are right.

DU does function in that way, but I believe it is too large and unwieldy to be viable. Too much shouting...

Plus the name turns many folks off to it. When they hear Democraticunderground they automatically assume partisanship and turn the other way.

What I am suggesting must be simple and it must be staffed with impartial folks. Kind of like factcheck.org I guess.

This is just a germ. There are folks much more adept at this type of thought than I who could fill it out.

I think we all agree we must demand honesty of our politicians, no matter who they are.

Scuba

[DevonRex]

15. Well, at least you knew that your idea would tick people off...

That's worth something I guess.

[scubadude]

51. If the citizens demanded honesty from the Bush administration,

I mean demanded it, things may have turned out quite differently for our country and the world.

The whole time our Senators were supporting the administrations drive to war, there were many here who shouted out that what we were hearing were lies. We knew the intelligence was being fixed around the policy. We did. Lonely little DU'ers calling out the lies. Yet when push came to shove many of our Senators voted with the administration, later claiming they were misled.
Come on. I knew the lies. Millions of folks in the USA did, yet we accepted our Senators claims they were misled.

We need to be able to separate ourselves from our zeal. We need to accept only the best from the best. We have seen where mediocrity leads.

Demand honesty. Demand action. Demand the best from our Dems and hold all politicians accountable when they lie. Without truth we are lost.

Scuba

[Fire1]

17. Bad Idea and here's why:

With all the 'infighting,' it's one thing to do it among your constituents on a website devoted to your cause (DU). But to display it, even in cyberspace, gives your opposition too much ammunition to use against you. A UNITED front must be displayed. Freepers will only use a brokenpromises site to DIVIDE AND CONQUOR. They are salivating, as we speak, at the potential congressional 'upset' during the mid-term elections to "take back our country," as it is. Terrible idea.

[scubadude]

39. So we must adopt the republican model of governance?

That is how the Republicans work. They take it to the point of running members against those who don't toe the line. By that logic Lieberman should be gone. Well, Obama has decided otherwise.

If we give up our ideals we become those we fight.

Scuba

[Fire1]

88. This is not about 'governance' or giving up ideals.

This is about UNITY.

[scubadude]

94. So you deny that the Republicans maintain "unity"?

Actually they enforce it, with a rough style that has gotten us into a very sad state.

What makes a Dem a Dem is his ability to view issues in various shades of gray. We have the ability to nuance things. That is why it is so tough to get our message across. To adopt the methods of our political opponents, everything black and white, would be easy and probably effective, but how would we not lose our souls?

Once again that is why it is important to quantify our progress versus our rhetoric. Performance will never be perfect, we know that as Dems, but at least we would have a guidepost to check against and can keep our leaders on the straight and narrow.

Scuba

[Fire1]

95. It's fine to have a guidepost and conflicting views AMONG

OURSELVES. NOT in a bi-partisan forum.

[scubadude]

97. Perhaps forum is the wrong format.

I'm not thinking of a site where people hang their dirty cloths to dry. I'm thinking more of a site like 538.com, although not entirely numbers. Tough thoughtful analysis on rhetoric vs action. Analysis of how things are changing to help folks understand the moves of any administration, or recognize when they are wrong.

Remember how poorly our media does with the profit motive driving their content.

Scuba

[Fire1]

99. I think we manage that effectively on DU. We critique and

analyze daily without freeper input (except for the occasional troll) so, I guess I don't see the point.

[scubadude]

101. Unfortunately our site has two things aganst it, the word Democrat and

the word underground. I happen to love those words and love this site but both of those words hold negative connotations to many people.

I have been harping to many about this site for years and still folks disregard it for that "reason". It has taken Herculean effort on my part but I have had some success in helping many of them understand. After all, 80% of Republicans are really Democrats who don't know what's going on.

I have been a part of this community almost since it's beginnings. I met my wife here. I use it and read it for hours every day.

Yet I must accept no less than the very best effort from Dems. It is not enough that we share a name, we must live our ideals.

Scuba

[Fire1]

104. I commend your efforts. I've tried 'talking' to Republicans also

and it was a miserable experience. As a result, I've come to the realization that I don't have the time nor inclination to change people who are thoroughly entrenched in their values and so politically indoctrinated and subserviant to a system of corruption, greed and inhumanity that they are blind to their own detriment.

[scubadude]

105. Unfortunately I am not as wise as you.

I must convert. I am completely driven and it often gets me into trouble but I do it out of compassion.

Although I am not overly religious the following sums it up for many of the Republicans I have met.

Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do...

Scuba

[ShortnFiery]

19. Yes, far too many progressive representatives also voted for this fascist bail out of private ...

cronies in the Banking Business. I'm seriously pissed. :grr:

[ecstatic]

22. why NOW and not 8 years ago when Bush took office?

Some of you really enjoy being in the wilderness. Sure, let's tear apart our own so that another repug can take office.

[RC]

26. Real Dem's won't won't stay in the harness like the repugs do.

You gotta learn to adjust.

[scubadude]

28. This would have to be bi partisan.

We need to demand honesty. Period. It is never too late. I believe in our party. I believe we have the right positions. But we cannot afford to let
anyone slide.

Scuba

[walldude]

30. No but we can afford to wait till someone actually governs

before bashing his governing. Cabinet picks don't mean shit. Obama is in charge. Just because someone is in his cabinet doesn't mean Obama is going to do what they recommend.

[scubadude]

37. I hope you are correct. That is the claim, that he is the anchor.

Yet Obama has voted against the party many times.

Time will tell, yet we must have a voice, the media sure doesn't speak for
me.

Scuba

[Clio the Leo]

29. I'm not getting your logical leap...

... how does "voting to the right of where you would like him" equate to dishonesty?

And how do you rectify your assesment that he is already not living up to his campaign promises with my assessment that he is doing exactly what he said he'd do all along.

One of us is wrong.

And since I am never wrong, it cant be me. :)

[scubadude]

33. It doesn't, there is no leap.

But we all know that Obama ran as someone who will listen to all sides before making decisions, yet we see him surrounding himself with hawks. Where is the diversity of thought? Is it to be expected that he alone is enough to balance things out? I hope he can pull it off, but we need to be mindful and able to hold all politicians up to the light, including our own.

Scuba

[snowbear]

38. Scubadude.. I won't take anything you say seriously until you create a profile..

Why keep yours LOCKED?

No one here will know your e-mail or other private info.. It just seems that it's always the people who lock up their profiles who do the most bitching around here. Seriously.

Create a f'n profile. It takes about two seconds.

[uppityperson]

43. 108057

that is that poster's id number. Yours is: 132491. Means joined sometime before you did. That's all I can find, but I agree. Even if profiles are lies, still.

[scubadude]

46. I have been here since the very beginning.

I will remain until my end. I believe in DU as I do the Dems, and hope the forum will outlive me, alas as it has several noted DU'ers.

Perhaps I am not aware of what you are referring to. I have a profile as far as I know. I don't post as much as I used to.

I will look into the profile right now!

Scuba

[AllentownJake]

40. Yes that's a fucking great idea

Let's do the GOP's work for them.

Obama will govern from the left...but the bill that he likes and the bill that he gets which is imperfect but good because of compromises in congress are two totally different things.

Also, you have to give the man some time. You have to prioritize your agenda and also the world changes and some promises become either infeasible or illogical in a new world.

[scubadude]

44. We are Americans first, Democrats second.

I agree we must give Obama time, and he very well may be the exact leader we need at this time. I hope he is and if he is then there will be nothing to worry about from a forum like the one I propose.

The GOP would also be under the microscope.

Scuba

[AllentownJake]

45. I'm an American first

and I realize sniping at my own party...unless they do something totally against my principles...helps the other party and that other party hurts America when they have power.

Seriously can we at least wait till he fucks one thing up till we start organizing websites to track him?

[scubadude]

47. It's not about Obama exclusively,

It's about politicians in general.

If compared on a level playing field, Dems will win every time.

Scuba

[mkultra]

53. just for the next 8 years right!?!?

nice plan. Next week, scubas plan for running faster: shoot yourself in the foot!

[scubadude]

60. So mkultra, would you support a dishonest administration?

We can sneak around and do anything we like eh? That is what you are implying.
Doesn't that make you more conservative than I am?

Obama must keep his promises. That is it. End of story. If he doesn't, he's not
a Dem in my view. We cannot accept lies from our leadership, no matter who they are.

We must constantly remind our representatives that they are under our scrutiny.

This is the central scrutinizer..... EffZee

Scuba




Remember the concept of Governance in Sunshine? That is all we need. A President
who says what he means and sticks to it, or if he has a change of heart explains
it fully in the light. Not like the last 8 years.

If you knew me at all from the past you would know I have absolutely excoriated
the Bush administration, but mostly from the first 4 years.

[mkultra]

82. i support change and unity

I know that its going to take people working together to make things work again. That means putting aside petty differences and stop grinding the axe of minutia. Its a matter of opinion, but in mine, if you feel driven to stand up above what checks and balances the other side will naturally provide at this EARLY point, then you either have a skewed impression of his decisions so far or are a troll.

The way it works is that both sides keep the other side honest and the middle figures out who to believe.

irregardless of whatever high ideal you may have, Obama is going to go back on promises. It WILL happen, get adjusted now. The idea that people shouldnt change stance as circumstances change is a republican ideology. One you seem to hold dear. I suggest that Obama will go back much much less.

Also, republican partisans will ALWAYS attack Obama and ALWAYS defend their own. The info the middle gets is reflective of this clash. If you add your voice UNREASONABLY to theirs, then you are a fool.

in summary:
Not a perfect world.
Get over it soon.
get on board.
stfu.

[scubadude]

98. STFU?, now there's some Dem talk...

I don't believe there are promises he will go back on. I realize that situations change and there will be opposition that may prevent him from getting things done. That is when straight talk is required. Positions change, even my own. Telling it straight and being flexible is one thing, lying is another.

Think of how many Republicans supported Bush until the bitter end. How many of them absolutely refuse to admit that he lied repeatedly to us. We must not be like them! We must hold our politicians up the the light of day, and there must be a way of examining and codifying these things.

Scuba

[mkultra]

52. your mind is one with the conservatives

go be with your brethren.

[scubadude]

54. You couldn't be more wrong.

I turn Republicans for fun.

I will give George one thing though. He has created more Democrats than any
other man alive.

This is not about Dem Vs Repub. It's about wright vs wrong. It's about promises
vs action. It's to guarantee that our representatives give us what we deserve.

Scuba

[mkultra]

57. that is handled by the interested parties

Otherwise, try factcheck.org

[HCE SuiGeneris]

55. No time. You absolutely should start the site.

Could be profitable.

[stillcool]

58. Or we could do something like this...

http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/building_the_community_a_guide_to_comments/

Building the community: A guide to comments
Wednesday, December 3, 2008 05:04pm EST

The conversations among the online community on Change.gov serve two valuable ends, both of which will play a vital role for the incoming Obama-Biden Administration.

Each discussion between the Transition team and readers provides rich insight into the issues and priorities Americans care passionately about.

In addition, these discussions also allow our team to provide a unique look into the work we do everyday and help make our jobs on the Transition as transparent and open as possible.

These online conversations are truly groundbreaking -- no other transition team has ever opened these types of channels of communication with the American people. We're proud of what we've accomplished so far, and look forward to building this dialogue.

We've read through the thousands of comments posted on Change.gov, and are excited by the volume of participation. To help make our discussions clearer and more valuable, we've put together some tips:

[scubadude]

61. That is very good.

A place to join in on the conversation.

There is one element lacking though, and I feel it is crucial.

Fear.

All administrations must realize that there is someone guarding the hen house. We can't let the fox do it anymore.
We know we can't trust the for profit media. The profit motive wins out over the truth any time it pays.

If we can't trust the media, we must create a media we can trust. DU is one of them I trust. The format has gradually
evolved here to produce one of the most compact well documented news sources imaginable. If only we could have a group
like fact check . org that codifies promises made and shows action, inaction, or redirection when and or as it occurs.

I know it's a steep order but with the right folks at the helm I think something like this could help our country.

Again, we know the for profit media won't do it.

Scuba

[stillcool]

64. yeah that is our biggest hurdle...

we certainly give the media the power to frame the discussion, and create the reality. And another problem is that we spend so much time reacting, there's no time to be pro-active. Without some way to organize enough people to be a force, we won't be seeing anything different than what we've always seen.

[scubadude]

102. Exactly!

A site such as the one I am proposing could rate performance. Folks would have the continuity they need to help them decide if a particular politician is meeting their expectations. It would help them be pro-active.

As an aside on many administrations have used the media, but few had as much success as the Reagan administration.

"On Bended Knee" by by Mark Hertsgaard explains the manipulation in detail.

Here is a link to an excellent site containing excerpts:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronald_Reagan/On_Bended_Knee.html

Scuba

[stillcool]

103. wow..that's my all time favorite site...

if there is anything on this earth I want to know about I can find it there. I can spend days in there. Their search is absolutely amazing.

[Occam Bandage]

62. Yeah. Go for it.

We need more people working entirely to undermine liberals with character attacks.

[totodeinhere]

66. That domain name has already been registered.

According to the domain's who is, a guy from Canada owns it.

[rhett o rick]

67. I am curious as to your intentions with this post. I think it is a great idea to keep track of

Obama's deed compared to his promises. Go ahead it's a great idea. Call us back when you have some data. Until then, it seems as if you are only trying to stir up trouble.

"As an Obama constituent and complete political junkie I noticed right off the bat how as a senator Obama seemed to profess a left of center view but vote more to the right of where I would like him." Do I understand you correctly that Obama professed to be left of center then later voted "more" right of center? When did he do the professing and when did he do the voting? Do you have some examples of both?

He did make some promises for when he became president, but need I remind you that he isn't yet president? Maybe a little early to be worrying about him breaking promises?

[scubadude]

76. So far there are just signs.

Some examples of quiet shifts in goals are in the following links, the last of which is the most concerning to me. Obama got huge support from the Energy industry in Illinois. I hope none of this matters but if no-one codifies and tracks these things how will we know?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/11/exclusive-obama-deletes-agenda-from-transition-web/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lloyd-chapman/obamas-changegov-website_b_145072.html

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/realitybase/2008/09/24/obama-changes-his-view-or-at-least-his-web-site-on-technology/

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/stunning_obama_changes_tax_pla.php

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/07/14/2008-07-14_barack_obama_purges_web_site_critique_of.html

And here's the one that made me thing it's time to track these things:

http://www.phawker.com/2008/12/03/fleecing-change-obama-quietly-deletes-promised-windfall-tax-on-big-oil-from-official-web-site/

Don't know yet if any of this stuff will happen for sure. If it does I will be saddened.

Scuba

[Shakespeare]

68. Or you could start a watchdog site for the "shadow government" the GOP plans to run.

Yes, we do have to pick sides here at the end of the day.

[scubadude]

83. They have been doing that for at least 25 years.

But the site should remain focused.

I believe DU and other sites like it could and are involved in tracking things like this.

Scuba

[Triana]

69. great idea! And your OP is part of the manifesto for the site:

"Now more than ever we need to shed light on how all administrations perform as compared to their rhetoric. Brokenpromises.org will focus attention on keeping all our politicians honest. Brokenpromises.org is founded on the belief that we should be ready to support our ideals, especially when Democrats and progressives are in office. Now is the time to anchor the national conversation back on the left and make sure our politicians live up to their promises."

[camera obscura]

71. The big media-read blogs are already covering these broken promises. We don't need a new site.

[scubadude]

91. Yes, but they cover so much thier message ends up diluted,

and they rarely provide the continuity necessary to follow a single line of thought. It's always off to the newest and biggest.

That is why a simple site that focuses all of it's attention upon tracking the reality versus the rhetoric is important.

Maybe a spin off of this could be something like currentposition.org.

Another idea, ugh!

Scuba

[Dragonfli]

73. Someone owns that Domain - But it is for sale

I suggest that if someone wants it - either to sit on it so no
one can use it, or use it as described

You will need to do it soon before a bidding war starts.




Domain ID:D20547738-LROR 
Domain Name:BROKENPROMISES.ORG 
Created On:23-Feb-2000 21:08:36 UTC 
Last Updated On:10-Jan-2008 03:06:11 UTC 
Expiration Date:23-Feb-2009 21:08:36 UTC 
Sponsoring Registrar:easyDNS Technologies Inc. (R1247-LROR) 
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED 
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED 
Registrant ID:tu5CqsoGYNS0WwPR 
Registrant Name:William Stratas 
Registrant Organization:Planetcast Presentations, Inc. / FOR
SALE 
Registrant Street1:1610-38 Elm Street 
Registrant Street2: 
Registrant Street3: 
Registrant City:Toronto 
Registrant State/Province:ON 
Registrant Postal Code:M5G2K5 
Registrant Country:CA 
Registrant Phone:[phone] 
Registrant Phone Ext.: 
Registrant FAX:[phone] 
Registrant FAX Ext.: 
Registrant 
Admin ID:tuy9tQAP4dHZyvz7 
Admin Name:William Stratas 
Admin Organization:Planetcast Presentations, Inc. 
Admin Street1:1610-38 Elm Street 
Admin Street2: 
Admin Street3: 
Admin City:Toronto 
Admin State/Province:ON 
Admin Postal Code:M5G2K5 
Admin Country:CA 
Admin Phone:[phone] 
Admin Phone Ext.: 
Admin FAX:[phone] 
Admin FAX Ext.: 
Admin 
Tech ID:tuIV4PHVuusPHm7z 
Tech Name:easyDNS Hostmaster 
Tech Organization:easyDNS Technologies Inc. 
Tech Street1:67 Mowat Ave. 
Tech Street2:ste 331 
Tech Street3: 
Tech City:Toronto 
Tech State/Province:Ontario 
Tech Postal Code:M6K3E3 
Tech Country:CA 
Tech Phone:[phone] 
Tech Phone Ext.: 
Tech FAX:[phone] 
Tech FAX Ext.: 
Tech 
Name Server:NS1.EASYDNS.COM 
Name Server:NS2.EASYDNS.COM 
Name Server:REMOTE1.EASYDNS.COM 
Name Server:REMOTE2.EASYDNS.COM 
Name Server:NS6.EASYDNS.NET 
Name Server:NS3.EASYDNS.ORG 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 

[tomp]

75. cyber space isn't big enough to hold it. nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

78. I don't remember politicians giving out that many promises.

What I remember are goals. And that's refreshing, seeing as how we're coming out of the "privatize, do nothing and it'll fix itself" and "long range objectives aren't politically expedient" era.

I'm rather tired of this micro-obsessing about "honesty" or political purity as an issue in itself, while big crimes like Bushco's and the banks' aren't addressed yet. And then there's the economic crisis to think of, not to mention the war(s). Maybe we could focus on the biggest things to fix for a change... merely because they're what is or will be causing us the worst damage, for no other reason.

I worry more about another million people losing their homes or jobs, than about whether the cabinet is politically correct. We have a liberal at the top and that's as good as it's ever going to get, I couldn't care less about the underlings.

If Obama finds an economic answer that really works, how much is it going to matter whose "slant" it mirrors perfectly? Maybe there's an answer that doesn't dovetail with any current ideology at all, what then? Would we ever find it or think of it this way?

[bvar22]

79. ..But the Democrats need 60 votes in The Senate....

....or they can't keep any of their promises.
Just ask them.


I am one of those people who is cursed with a memory, and believe that everyone should keep their promises....even politicians. While Obama ran with plenty of Progressive Rhetoric and Progressive Imagery, he actually "promised" very little. The promises he did make were vague with lots of weasel room and few specifics. It will be difficult to pin him down on anything.

[scubadude]

86. Yes, you are correct in that, we have little specifics.

But still it may be possible to show divergence from the rhetoric. Scales could be agreed upon. Remember, this is only an idea. The specifics we do have (more from Obama than most) certainly can be tracked.

Scuba

[EstimatedProphet]

80. Is it OK if we wait until he actually breaks promises before we accuse him of doing it?

[scubadude]

84. Right now there is a lot of backpedaling going on.

It should be noted.

Of course situations change, but still promises should be kept, or at least explanations should be made before they are very quietly swept to the side.

For instance, a simple explanation of why the promise of windfall profit taxes for energy companies (who recently have had record profits at our expense) has been removed from Obama's internet offerings might suffice.

Scrutiny of the honeymoon period should be double. It must be know how all administrations rhetoric changes as they evolve.

Scuba

[AndrewP]

113. Oh, what's the fun in that?

:banghead:


Personally, I'll wait until he actually does something in office. You know, on January 20th.

[JohnnyLib2]

81. Isn't that more or less inevitable, regardless of office-holder?

Many letters to the editor have been along that line as long as I can remember. The internet has taken over, and it seems to me some sort of website like this just will happen.

The OP takes a risk by making the suggestion here; that doesn't kill the idea.

[scubadude]

85. So you say because the idea was suggested here it is tainted?

Unfortunately this is the only forum I have. I am of limited means as far as
these things go. It is my hope someone else will pick up the banner. Hopefully a non partisan think tank could produce something like this. Perhaps they already do and I just haven't found it. But if a political junkie like me who literally spends hours each day scouring the internet for news doesn't know about it it may not be effective.

I don't know. I'm not a journalist and not a reporter. I am just a concerned citizen who loves this country and wants the best for it, especially from the Obama's administration, who I have supported for years and expect a lot of.

Scuba

[JohnnyLib2]

106. Not tainted. Probably ahead of the curve here.

[rvablue]

87. Ring.Ring. Mr. Scubadude, it's Ralph Nader on line one...............n/t

[scubadude]

89. I don't know how many times I have ranted against Ralph

on this board. Sent him plenty of emails too...

I'm not sure where your coming from.

Scuba

[pipi_k]

107. Holding their feet to the fire...great idea, but

like someone further up asks, why wait till Obama to do this?

Also...I know many people are disappointed even before Obama has taken office, but whatever he's done to "disappoint" people (so far), is nothing...a mere drop in the bucket...compared to how George W Bush betrayed every single American for eight long years. Even those Americans who won't ever admit it.


As far as people being disappointed in Obama because he's not turning out to be what they thought they voted for, what other choice was there? McCain and Palin, that's what. As time goes on and there may be a few things we will possibly have issues with him on, it would probably be a good idea to stop and put it all into perspective.

AND...something a few people don't seem to consider...there's a huge difference between promising something when one doesn't have all the necessary information or security clearances and the actions one has to take once the whole picture becomes clear. If there's ever a shift in policy that doesn't jibe with the campaign promises, there just might be some valid reasons that we, average American citizens without knowledge of the inner workings of the White House, will NEVER know about.

To me, it's like when a kid wants this or that toy and is all pissed off because Mom and Dad won't/can't buy it after promising to get it, but the kid doesn't know that Dad took a cut in pay, or the expected Christmas bonus didn't materialize.

Not trying to make excuses for him, but over the course of the next few months Obama will become privy to information we don't have, and that may shape or change his actions on some things. We should understand that even as we hold our politicians accountable for being as forthright and honest as possible.

sorry...didn't mean to do the soapbox routine... :blush:

[scubadude]

121. I'll take yours point by point.

I agree to a point, but I expect more from Obama than I did from Bush.

I knew that Bush lied, and called him on it publicly and often. Anyone who knows me knows I was not silent.

>Also...I know many people are disappointed even before Obama has taken >office, but whatever he's done to "disappoint" people (so far), is >nothing...a mere drop in the bucket...compared to how George W Bush betrayed >every single American for eight long years. Even those Americans who won't >ever admit it.

I agree, but people almost expect politicians to be dishonest. You are falling into this trap. This time we have someone who may listen. Remember that Bush surrounded himself with idealogs, PNAC'ers and hawks. Subsequently we were attacked and there was war. I wonder why? Now Obama surrounds himself with hawks too. So far little balance from truly liberal voices. Now is the time to demand that balance. If we say it now the idea will be there. We will be the balance he lacks of his own choice.

>AND...something a few people don't seem to consider...there's a huge >difference between promising something when one doesn't have all the >necessary information or security clearances and the actions one has to >take once the whole picture becomes clear. If there's ever a shift in >policy that doesn't jibe with the campaign promises, there just might be >some valid reasons that we, average American citizens without knowledge of >the inner workings of the White House, will NEVER know about.

This is true to a point, but surely it has nothing to do with windfall profit taxes for energy companies, which is the largest example I have used for this exercise.

Also you must realize that much of the "intelligence" that led up to the Iraq war was stovepiped and cherry picked. Secret sources galore. Yet in reality there were a majority of voices amongst the intelligence community that doubted the conclusions drawn by the Bush crowd. There were many voices here on DU who knew about the baloney and called it out. But it is very convenient for politicians to create excuses and hide behind secrecy...

>To me, it's like when a kid wants this or that toy and is all pissed off >because Mom and Dad won't/can't buy it after promising to get it, but the >kid doesn't know that Dad took a cut in pay, or the expected Christmas >bonus didn't materialize.

Explanations still must be made. We must be informed or our Democracy will fail.

>Not trying to make excuses for him, but over the course of the next few >months Obama will become privy to information we don't have, and that may >shape or change his actions on some things. We should understand that even >as we hold our politicians accountable for being as forthright and honest >as possible.

Yes, he will know things we don't just as Bush did. I trust Obama more, but we have seen what happens when an administration regards secrecy too highly. It becomes a tool for dishonesty. Hiding behind states secrets like the Sibel Edmonds thing.

We want a fresh start, as few secrets as possible, no torture, no shadow government. We want our government to be created in our countries image, with people of all persuasions and viewpoints.

Scuba

[scheming daemons]

109. yeah, scuba! Let's do FreeRepublic's work for them! AWESOME!

fucking idiot.

[scubadude]

119. Oh here we go again.

A call for honesty is rewarded with stupidity? Base rude stupidity at that. You are on the Republicans side, for is it not they who act as if they are above scrutiny?

Scuba

[RiverStone]

112. Can we at least let him assume power first?

QUESTION authority, but give him a chance to show what he will do when IN power. We are not there yet.

Your idea has merit --- down the road if needed. Lets give Barack Obama the benefit of doubt, and celebrate like crazy in January! :)

[scubadude]

120. I agree, at least in part.

But now is not the time for reneging.

There cannot be a time where the platform he ran upon can be turned into something other that what the people voted for. No quiet turning away from what was promised. We voted for the man based on the promises he made. Those which were put forth at his convenience, but theoretically honoring the people to which they were spoken. I say if there is a quiet turning away, there is a turn away from honor. A creeping malaise that is seen all too often.

We must demand accountability, for all politicians, from all parties.

Do you face your children explaining why the vacation that cannot be made but which you promised is off, or do you just stop talking about it? Do you just pretend the promise was not made? That is what has been attempted with the windfall profit tax promised during the election. A quiet removal from Obama's website.

I can tell you that the energy concerns in Illinois were among Obamas biggest contributors during his election to the Senate. Surely we are owed at least an explanation. There hasn't been one to my knowledge.

We are also all to aware of what we get when Government acts in secret. I say away with the secrets. Thomas Jefferson agreed when he recognized that the success of our democracy depends on an informed electorate. No quiet turning away.

We must demand the highest level of effort to honor the ideals upon which Obama was elected.

Scuba

[HughMoran]

114. Not ticked off

I just put you on ignore - I have no use for people who are freaking out way before he's even been sworn in.

[scubadude]

122. Not freaking out, just wary.

Great, put me on ignore. I have never and will never use that function.

I would fight to the death for your right to free speech, but then you will never know that, will you?

Scuba

[Starry Messenger]

116. I think I found the one you are looking for:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

[scubadude]

123. I agree, we have most of what I suggest here.

What we lack is the purely analytical, DU is willy-nilly.

What we need is a scorecard if you will. A site that listens, codifies and calculates follow up. It wouldn't be easy, but few things worth doing are.

Just a germ here. Perhaps someone like the fellow who does

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ could pull something like this off.

Scuba

[mokawanis]

117. Pointless waste of time

What exactly makes you think making the website you suggest would accomplish anything? Anyone who wants to document political happenings or voice their opinion already has a million places online to do so.

[scubadude]

118. That is the point.

A million places, with vague names and little direction.

This site would be specific, with one goal in mind. Tracking the performance or our elected officials.

Gee, I think this would actually be a good assignment for the GAO. Perhaps the idea could actually be integrated into our government itself! We could amend the constitution in a fashion to fight executive orders and unlawfulness. Of course the GAO would have to be given some teeth. We all know how Congress has failed to act. Force the Presidency to be honest...

The above was thought up half in jest, after consuming some very fine beer.

But why not?

Scuba