The more you try to drum up anger against Obama -- before he even takes office --

[pnwmom]

the more you encourage others to view him with distrust and suspicion,

the more you help the Rethugs to eat away at the support he has among the general public,

the harder a task he is going to have getting important work accomplished,

and the MORE likely that he will be replaced by a Republican in 2012.


Obama's facing a monumentally difficult Presidency, with the economy in dire straits, the threat of global warming, a health care crisis, two wars, and the ever-present threat of terrorism (including serious predictions of a nuclear or biological attack during his presidency. ) We should be backing him up now, not tearing him down. We should be helping Obama take every step forward, helping him with our support, not constantly carping and complaining and second-guessing.

He's not Bush, he's not anything like Bush, but some of you haven't figured that out -- maybe never will.

Unhappy Democrats helped to take Jimmy Carter down. Is that what you want to do to Obama? The Rethugs won't be giving him a honeymoon. Can't the Dems at least give him that much?

[rudy23]

1. A lot of that is up to Obama.

Don't use the anger of your own base to show off how "bipartisan" you are.

[pnwmom]

2. I'm very partisan. I want the Dem to succeed, not to be torn down by the

purists and the purgers of his own party.

[firedupdem]

3. You need to delete one of your threads...this is a dupe... n/t

[pnwmom]

4. Thanks, I'll look for that. It doesn't show up that way on "my DU." n/t

[firedupdem]

5. yep..one has 6 replies and the other one 4...both have rec's! n/t

[bvar22]

23. How ironic.

You are demanding "Purity", and condemning it with the same breath.
:shrug:

[pnwmom]

25. Where am I demanding purity? n/t

[pnwmom]

8. Interesting that you say "your own base"

instead of "our own base."

That tells me something about your affiliations.

[rudy23]

9. Great job, Encyclopedia Brown, BUT

since I was hypothetically addressing Obama, "your" was more appropriate.

I love how anyone who even questions that Obama's "Team of Rivals" is anything less than a brilliant ploy to keep his enemies close-by, is no longer a Democrat.

eta: it wasn't clear that I was addressing "Obama", and not you in my post, so I understand.

[pnwmom]

17. You're right, I didn't understand that.

But I also don't think Obama is purposely trying to churn up his base in order to demonstrate his bi-partisanship. He never campaigned as a Kucinich-type candidate, but it seems that a lot of DUers are shocked that he isn't one.

I think there's a reason that Ted Kennedy supported Obama early on. One of Kennedy's favorite sayings is some variation of "never let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Kennedy has been lauded for his work on behalf of progressive causes over the course of his career. But he's always been willing to work with the other side to get there, and he's been willing to compromise. That's why he's been able to accomplish so much. And I think that if we Democrats have Obama's back -- rather than pepper B.B.'s at him from all sides -- he'll be able to as well.

[rudy23]

19. I'm still hoping you're right. I'm a little worried, b/c it's starting to feel a LOT like after we

won in '06. I'm still giving him a chance, but I'm also doing my duty as a member of what's left of the "left" to make sure he hears us, too. And to make sure his brand of bipartisanship isn't just being a Republican, as has been the trend lately among many Democrats who trumpet bipartisanship.

[pnwmom]

24. I will also be disappointed if the change candidate doesn't change anything.

But I'm willing to wait and see at this point. The changes we need can't be accomplished overnight.

[mkultra]

44. deleted

[mkultra]

45. I disagree with your point

but you just owned that guy grammatically. 2 points to you for the reversal.

[Seldona]

36. Perhaps. Perhaps it is the other way around.

[HughMoran]

63. Who is "your own base" and are you an American? Oh, and who or what is the alternative?

Please enlighten me as the the "other base" and the many other choices in President we have available at this time.

[Thrill]

6. Of Course. Democrats are always quick to eat their own

[question everything]

7. I may have missed some threads here. Why would anyone drum up anger

against Obama? Because he does not dance to anyone's tune?

This should be praised, not a cause for anger.

Haven't we have enough of a president who dances to the tune of his handlers?

Of course, this was inevitable. Millions projected their wishful thinking on him and no one can be everything to everyone, so whatever he was going to do was going to disappoint and anger many here.

[On the Road]

10. Indeed, You Must Have Missed Some Threads

Almost every appointment and decision has been met with incredulity and accusations here, even those generating widespread praise.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Crying wolf constantly is not going to generate positive results in a long run.

I would say, at the most, waiting till the man actually takes office
is a nothing but a reasonable request...

But I'm afraid one that will not be heeded,
and instead will be jeered and ridiculed.

Many of us have only posted on the Internet with a Republican foe in our White House,
and most have never posted on the Internet while having a Democratic President sitting in the office,
and probably don't truly know what to do after 8 years of being in opposition.

Some will freely choose to stay in opposition, because that is what they know.
I don't blame them....and understand the mindset. I just don't happen to agree.

As time goes by, those exhausted and depressed due to the negativity, will go elsewhere.
They will go to a place where the President and his actions are discussed rationally, without the presence of those who's ultimate goal is seeing him fail and not much more.

[rhett o rick]

16. We are at a crossroads in our nations history. We are very near the precipice.

We don't have a lot of wiggle room so we can't just lay back and hope we don't pass the point of no return. Good mercy, did I use enough cliches?
My point is, as weak as it is, is that Obama must make some essential corrections in our path as soon as possible or we will run into the damn ice berg. We can't afford to give him too much of a grace period.

Peace and no more bailouts for wallfuckingstreet.

[eridani]

12. It isn't anger--it's lobbying for what we want

Repubs will attack his legitimacy no matter what we do, and his best defense is a citizenry still wound up about a lot of specific issues, like universal health care.

[pnwmom]

18. Lobbying is great, eridani -- but I've seen a lot of anger around here, too.

For example, the Hillary haters who can't stand that she was appointed S.O.S., etc.

That's what I'm responding to.

[eridani]

22. She's probably as good as we were going to get

No way would he ever have been considered a "serious" candidate without agreeing to standing behind an imperial foreign policy.

[slay]

13. While I do not actively encourage anger against Obama, I won't follow blindly either

And for the record - I view ALL politicians with distrust and suspicion. I have more faith in Obama than I do most politicians, but that shouldn't mean I don't have the right to question some of his decisions. Also - I'm afraid you will never convince any "anger drummer-uppers" with a post like this, sorry. It boils down to a matter of free speech and they have every right to question his decisions. In fact, could you point me to one of this "drumming up anger" posts so I know what exactly you are referring to? Thanks. :)

[rhett o rick]

14. I certainly agree that Democrats should give him some slack at least until he

has a chance to actually do something. But, having said that, it is our obligation as good Democrats to keep his feet to the fire. No anger, just vigilance. We elected Pres. Clinton and he did some good things, but economically he killed us. Just because he is a Democrat (either Clinton or Obama) doesn't mean he gets a free ride.

I want to emphasize that I agree that we should not be getting too worked up for a while. Give him a chance.

Nice day in the Pacific NW today, I hope you enjoy it.

[pnwmom]

21. It is a nice day here today, rhett o rick.

And I'd like to be outside enjoying it but I'm stuck inside right now. I'm getting sun through the windows though!

P.S. Do you really think Obama will accomplish more with his "feet to the fire"? Sounds like a way to handicap him, to me.

:shrug:

[rhett o rick]

33. Great question. If you want to know what I really think is that we the people have very little

influence. But I will continue to fight because otherwise I might as well roll over and die. We did manage to keep McCain out and get Obama in but he will have major forces with tons of money trying to influence him. Our only threat to him is that we won't elect him next time. Pretty hollow knowing we have no choice unless we want Palin. I think he will do the best he can but against huge odds. Media against him, big money against him.

After I wrote the earlier post I went and worked outside. I live in Kitsap Cty. Hope tomorrow is this nice.

[H2O Man]

15. Nominated.

I think that people can disagree with President-elect Obama, let him know it, and discuss their concerns without doing so in an angry way. I think they will find that is a more productive route.

[paulk]

20. it's all been predictable

look at the way the left treats Bill Clinton. Obama is in for the same...

[earth mom]

26. And the more you cover up the truth with lock step fawning worship

the less you will get from ANY politician. Guaranteed.

The people of this country must hold public servants feet to the fire to keep them honest and accountable.

[pnwmom]

27. People whose feet are being held to the fire can't move.

And if they can't move, they can't move forward. They can't accomplish anything.

I'm not going to try to bind our new President's hands or hold his feet to the fire. I'm going to support him while the Rethugs -- aided by certain "progressives" -- try to tear him down.

[Danger Mouse]

40. Haha, oh man, you should be nominated for a DUzy.

[Uzybone]

28. The general public approves

the naysayers and whiners on the internet are not that large of a group to turn public opinion.

[tomp]

43. Will you point to how small a group we are....

....in 2012 when you want our vote? I think not.

[uppityperson]

29. k&r with thanks.

[apocalypsehow]

30. For the more vociferous & hateful ones doing that here, i.e. -

"the more you encourage others to view him with distrust and suspicion,

the more you help the Rethugs to eat away at the support he has among the general public,

the harder a task he is going to have getting important work accomplished,

and the MORE likely that he will be replaced by a Republican in 2012"

...that's sorta the whole point.

[apocalypsehow]

31. Oh, and Rec, BTW.

:thumbsup:

[NashVegas]

32. Fair Enough

In the thread about Ag secretary, the link leads eventually to this open letter to Obama:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/04/dining/agseclettertext.pdf


Look, we're internet geeks, not responsible citizens. Few here were ever taught how to comprise a loyal opposition.

For another example of how to oppose presidential policy without being a ass about it, Sean Penn's "Letter to George W. Bush" provides food for thought.

http://www.peace.ca/seanpenn.htm

[noiretextatique]

34. only a fool would based her opinions on internet ranting

you are giving these folks too much credit.

[tomp]

46. see you in 2012 when you want to re-elect obama, nt

you can rant away about what traitors to democracy we are, and fools will pay attention to you.

[happychatter]

52. 1st ad hominem attack

congratulations

[noiretextatique]

57. "attack"

:eyes: only a fool would claim that my post was an "attack."

[HughMoran]

66. "John Brennan withdraws name from consideration as CIA director"

.

[Radical Activist]

35. There are ways to encourage Obama to move left

without painting him as a two-faced conservative who's breaking all of his campaign promises. Unfortunately, there appears to be a lot of liberals who think that stretching the truth and making wild exaggerations to portray Obama in that way is how you lobby him to move left. Those tactics are ineffective and these voices are losing credibility quickly.

[pnwmom]

38. You said it very well. n/t

[tomp]

42. please list the effective tactics, radical one....

[Radical Activist]

51. There are many.

A simple one is to say that Obama ran as a liberal and ask him to fulfill his campaign promises. Or ask people to make sure conservatives don't stop the liberal mandate people gave Obama. That makes liberalism sound like a popular majority issue instead of a cranky minority, and it doesn't weaken Obama's ability to pass the progressive items on his agenda.

I can't think of a less effective way to frame the debate than "Obama is a corporatist turning our back on us" and making far-fetched exaggerations to support that meme. It harms Obama's ability to get progressive legislation passed in the future, increases cynicism, and at the same time damages the credibility of liberals who make exaggerations. Karl Rove couldn't have wished for anything better.

[tomp]

68. i didn't really expect you'd have anything, and you proved it.

...you got nothing. you must think we're really stupid. you insult my intelligence. if that's your best idea on how to move obama to the left, you're just plain naive. you're not radical.

[Radical Activist]

71. This excellent author disagrees with you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7956656&mesg_id=7956656

People who make reasoned, intelligent arguments like this will be taken far more seriously than people who make the cynical exaggerations that are fashionable on the left right now. Since all you have is insults I'll take that as an admission that you have no counter argument.
Nader has been preaching fatalist cynicism about the political system for years and it hasn't won him a fraction of the support of Obama's message of hope. But feel free to tell us all how stretching the truth to make Obama look bad and spreading cynicism are healthy for the progressive movement. You'd be the first.

[tomp]

76. anyone can make an argument for gender equality...

...but that and all the conventions and treaties we've ever signed haven't kept us out of deep hole we're in and another one won't get us out. this is obfuscation on your part, you silly, non-radical person. it is obama who has been doing the stretching. obama is status quo, and now that he's in, there is now way to get to him. you are of course aware of all the impeachment and prosecution mobilization that has been going on, especially since 2006, with "reasoned, intelligent arguments". obama's response...colin powell! if that's not a sign for you that obama is essentially unreachable on crucial issues, you're clueless, useless and a waste of my time.

but keep proclaiming your radicalness..it's always in fashion.

[Radical Activist]

80. Try taking a lesson from Howard Zinn.

A kind DUer posted his recent comments about Obama and the election.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=247780&mesg_id=247780

He encourages Obama to go farther left but still gives him credit for the good parts of his platform. He says he wants the positive feelings of Obama's election to continue instead of shitting on the excitement everyone feels like you clearly do. Many of the things he says will reinforce the progressive action Obama wants to take. His criticisms are reasoned and intelligent.

He DID NOT exaggerate Obama's rightward move, he didn't call Obama names, or accuse him of being a corporatist turning his back on us and the many other cynical, hysterical doomsday predictions about Obama I see on DU lately.

So while you're writing your response about how cynicism is good for the progressive movement you can also tell me why Howard Zinn isn't radical enough for you.

You might also go to the Obama Change house parties happening around the country next weekend where Obama is asking people to tell his administration where to go from here. Oh, but you won't do that because you think Obama is now "unreachable." Your cynicism about the system has effectively made you a non-player because you have removed yourself from relevance. I hope you enjoy the feeling of superiority you get from your nihilistic self-imposed irrelevance.

[Hekate]

73. Very well said, RA. "That makes liberalism sound like a popular majority issue...

... instead of a cranky minority..." Thanks.

Build up instead of tear down.

Hekate

[Radical Activist]

79. Thanks

I'm not sure who pissed in this other guys fruit loops that makes him so nasty.

[dccrossman]

37. Balance is required (and easier said than done)

:kick:

There are some legitimate concerns that are being voiced. Not to say there isn't some unjustified ranting.

Many of us are here because we want to think and we want to push out the progressive edge. We do not want to be the mindless herd following the chosen one as has been accused.

Somehow we have to find the balance of offering constructive criticism and supporting the guy we have elected because he does seem to be the smartest person in the room.

My vague attempt at an example:

I don't agree with keeping Gates as SoD. He supported failed policies and seems to believe that the surge accomplished some goals that were really accomplished by some Iraqis that figured out they needed to find some way to keep their country from completely exploding. He also seems to think Afghanistan is "the same" as Iraq. The comment should be "Obama went against his mandate by keeping Gates." It should be that we expect him to control and redirect Gates towards the policies he ran on until a suitable replacement can be prepared and placed.

In any case, thanks for posting.

[pnwmom]

39. I expect that Obama will be controlling and redirecting Gates toward

Obama's goas. Obama's no puppet President like Bush. Assuming Gates does act under Obama's new policies, the benefit to Obama will be that Gates will help him to fend off attacks from the right.

[tomp]

41. !) don't criticize obama, 2) don't be angry....

pass.

[HughMoran]

67. 3) Act like an infant who can't stand when people criticize you for attacking our not even President

It's an endless loop of stupidity.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofthedial]

47. I'm not gonna shut up and go away

until he starts behaving like a liberal, which isn't gonna happen, so get used to it.

If me saying he's been acting like a "free-market," supply-side republican convinces someone to not support him, then IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT ANOTHER "FREE-MARKET," SUPPLY_SIDE REPUBLICAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE EITHER.

This isn't a pep rally for the middle school football game. This is real. Our economy has real fundamental problems that can not be solved by supply-side ideologues like Geithner and Summers.

[mzmolly]

55. He never promised to "behave like a liberal"

in fact he said he'd "reach across the isle." Additionally, he put forward a blueprint for change and hasn't had ONE day to begin his agenda.

[leftofthedial]

59. The issue of broken promises is separate. I will complain as long as he doesn't

act like a liberal, because I AM A LIBERAL. I would complain about any president acting like a repuke because repukes are what is wrong with this country.

Having said that, he ran far to the left of where he seems to want to govern. I'm not surprised, but I'm also not gonna ignore it.

[4themind]

60. perhaps

one thing that may be a part of some people's concerns here in excerpts like "he ran far to the left of where he seems to want to govern" vs. "...until he starts behaving like a liberal, which isn't gonna happen". It's just a logical distinction between a belief of past behavior compared to current behavior vs. a declarative statement on something that hasn't occurred yet (seemingly without clarification of the statement as a prediction and not a statement of fact, or providing sufficient conditions to prove said statement to be fact). At the same time I should make clear that you are free to make any type of statement you like here that the moderators find within their rules, I guess the best thing for you to consider is how your statements aid or hurt the causes that you value(in order of their rank), that's for you to decide.

[leftofthedial]

61. if enough progressives speak out,

perhaps it will influence the cause.

[4themind]

62. won't argue against constructive criticism

for him being allowed here :thumbsup:

[mzmolly]

64. Seems to want to govern?

Seems to me, he wants to govern in a responsible manner and accomplish the goals he set forward in his run for office?

I too am a liberal. One that is thrilled that we won't have another ideological bully running the Country come 2009.

[leftofthedial]

70. he has chosen competent people from what I can tell

the repukes sure seem to love his picks so far.

[mzmolly]

75. 70% of Americans

are pleased with his handling of the transition thus far, surely there is a reasonable Republican or two among them.

[leftofthedial]

78. Do you really believe that 70% of Americans could even name one of his picks?

with the possible exception of Clinton, I doubt that 10% of Americans could name one.

[mzmolly]

83. I don't know.

Don't much care frankly. Though I am certain most can name Hillary Clinton.

[mzmolly]

86. Actually

I would imagine that at least 50% could name one beyond Clinton.

[mtnsnake]

48. If the overall sentiments of this forum had any bearing upon the real world of Democrats

Bill and Hillary Clinton would both be serving hard time in a maximum security prison by now, but luckily for everyone, this place in no way reflects the way most mainstream American Democrats feel, so you're worrying way too much.

Besides, if you think Obama is getting way too much criticism now on DU, just wait until he's been in office for a few weeks. Half of this place (or more) will turn on him like junkyard dogs.

[Waiting For Everyman]

49. Now we get to see the stupid side of our own party.

We've got no game, and give the President-Elect no room to have any either.

(Fortunately, I expect that he'll ignore that and do a helluva job by the end of this term anyway.)

This is just like all the "sages" whose "wisdom" said that he couldn't win in the primaries, and then he was conducting the election all wrong, and on it goes...

[LanternWaste]

50. the more people who do that, the more I laugh at them

"The more you try to drum up anger against Obama"

Actually the more people who do that, the more I laugh at them.

For myself, I need to see consequences prior to making judgments. Oh, I'm sure we have a few hand-me-down Astrologers, Tarot Readers, Numerologists, and even the occasional Miss Cleo running around and yelling that PE Obama is "nothing more than a centrist", "martial law will be declared prior to the election", and "The DLC-ers have ruined the world!!!!!"; but to date, the only prognostications they've made that seemed to have actually happened are more often than the the garden-variety, "I predict the sun will rise tomorrow."

So yeah, they speak, they predict, they scream-- and all I can do is allow myself an occasional bemused laugh...

[mzmolly]

53. Who he appoints is not as important as what he accomplishes,

and I feel that his cabinet is a (reasonable) means to an end.

[MadHound]

54. It is up to Obama

If he continues to act in a manner that is corporatist, centerist, and completely ignores the left while rewarding everybody else, including Republicans, then he can expect criticism from the left. If he doesn't get all the troops out of Iraq within sixteen months, then he can expect massive criticism from the anti-war folks. This is the way a democracy works.

Sorry, but no lockstep thinking, even if the president is a Democrat.

[FlaGranny]

56. Wow

Lotta "ifs" in your post. That's the trouble. If this, if that. Good golly, if I don't wake up tomorrow my world will come to an end. If I don't get paid next week I'll really be pissed. If my car breaks down . . . if my kid gets in an accident . . . if my tax bill goes up . . . IF, IF, IF, IF. How do you get through the day like that?

We've made our decision, we elected Obama. He has a web site, and he asks for our input. We give it to him. Now we wait to see what happens. WHEN something happens, then we decide if its good or bad. THEN, we either get mad or we get glad. Anything else, you just drive yourself crazy and everyone else, too. That's also the way democracy works and it can do so without causing nervous breakdowns.

[ieoeja]

58. What makes you think his detractors are Democrats?

I imagine most of them are Green, Socialist, Communist, Naderite, etc. We have always had a host of third party supporters on this board happily bashing away at Democrats. Nothing new there.

Similar thing regarding the auto manufacturer bailout. Sure, a lot of Democrats here are so focused on "saving three corporations" aspect. But a lot of these third party types want capitalism to fail.

Remember the excuse for voting Nader in 2000, "it has to get worse before it can get better"? You see that at play on a lot of those bailout threads. They know doing nothing will drive us headlong into a depression. They want us to descend into a depression.

They hope that will bring about The Glorious Revolution.

[Hekate]

74. Well, when you put it that way... Looks like I'll have to start asking "Who does it serve?" ...

... about the detractors just as I did about the Repubs when they did stuff that didn't make sense in my world.

All I want to do at this point is support Obama's chances against the Repubs, their smear machine, and all the rest. That means being alert for the inevitable attacks from the right wing, not continually nitpicking from the left and making mountains out of molehills.

Glorious Revolutions cause as much destruction in their own way as the Rapture would if it happened.

Hekate

[FlaGranny]

81. You nailed it.

You sure did. ;-)

[LWolf]

84. I'm a Democrat.

A leftist Democrat who considers Greens, Socialists, Naderites, the independent left, etc. to be allies, not enemies. Better allies than centrist republicans and centrist independents. Often better allies than centrists in my own party.

A Democrat whose only purpose in politics is to move the nation to the left, and to move issues forward with leftist positions.

I've been free and transparent with the fact that I care more about issues than party, and that the only purpose a party has for me is to organize efforts to move issues.

I've also been a strong critic of Obama since he appeared on the national stage. I still am. That's never been a secret, either.

Obama is a centrist. I oppose centrism. I can be a Democrat and be opposed to any centrist's agendas.

None of this has ever been a secret.

For the record, on the few occasions that I have agreed with Obama on something, or supported something on his agenda, I have readily said so. I can think of two: I support what he said about all U.S. students learning a second language, and I support his recent proposal for funding infrastructure and job creation.

[walldude]

65. "He's not Bush, he's not anything like Bush"

Yeah I tried to make this clear here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7957199

[Hekate]

72. I've got his back, pnwmom. I wish more people here would too....

When I wear my various Obama buttons around town, there are always people who are so *happy* to see them and comment on how glad they are that he won.

Today it was the one with Obama in the cowboy hat ("I've got your back, America"). The Rainbow Obama button is pinned to the hat I usually wear--young people notice that one, and I tell them "We've still got a lot of work to do" and they understand that's about Prop 8. The shamrock green O'Bama one goes on my green sweater.

Honestly, I'm enjoying my Obama "honeymoon." After 8 years of misery don't we deserve this much?

The Republicans are already busily rewriting history, George and Laura are in their delusional bubble -- and Obama IS STILL THE PRESIDENT-ELECT.

Hekate

[treestar]

77. kick

[LWolf]

82. I'm part of the general public.

I've been waiting for him to earn my support.

His pledge to create jobs connected to renewing old and creating new infrastructure gets my support. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

As for the rest, time will tell.

[fortyfeetunder]

85. Can't R but agree whole-heartedly

I have to give PE Obama credit for trying to at least prepare himself to lead from day one. He certainly cannot afford to coast between E-day and I-day without having his game plan in place.