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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:30 PM
Original message
Obama citizenship question--
There are some things that just seem too silly to give any attention to. One of them is--or was--the Obama "natural born citizen" question. Too silly, that is, until the criminal Supreme Court starts dinking around with it.

So, since I wasn't paying any attention to it before, when it just seemed like some wingnut wet dream, what's the whole issue about? I don't get it. Anyone born on Hawaii to an American mother must be a "natural-born citizen," right? So WTF is this stuff all about?
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. they claim it's not a 'real' birth certificate
that his birth was merely 'registered' in HI and not proof that he was born there.

:banghead:
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. As I understand it..
.. the suit is claiming that Obama is
not a natural born citizen because his
father was not an American citizen.
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Which, I'm pretty sure, is irrelevant: The Constitution says that the president
has to have been born in the US. I don't think it says bupkes about the parents.
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gogoplata Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is going to be good.
:popcorn: :9
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. PatGund is the "go-to" Du-er on this one.
Hopefully he'll be by to illuminate. There are some good posts at Yes to Democracy where he writes with some others.

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/11/running-on-empty-bergcolb-update.html

Basically it's a pile of owl pellets.
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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. *laugh* Thank you!
In a nutshell, the major arguements are:

1) He was born in Kenya, (some also claim Canada), and his mother was too young to pass on her US citizenship to him. This is based on various internet claims, particularly Corsi and anti-semite Andy Martin. His Hawaiian birth certificate is therefore a forgery.

2) He was born in Hawaii, but both him and his mother lost their US citizenship when she married Lolo Soetoro and moved to Indonesia. This is based on a faulty reading of the US Nationality Act of 1940 and 1952. While it is true that a woman marrying a non-citizenship husband would have lost her citizenship (if the marriage had happened before 1922 that is), nothing the parents did would have affected the minor's citizenship. The parents cannot renounce the child's US citizenship, and the child cannot renounce their US citizenship until the child is 18. The basis of the argument comes from a Neo-Confederate named "Judah Benjamin" on the PUMA blog "TexasDarlin".

3) He was born in Hawaii and has US citizenship though his mother. However, due to the fact his father was not a US citizen, and Obama inherited UK/Kenyan citizenship from him, he is not a "Natural Born citizen" but rather has divided loyalties like a naturalized citizen and can be considered at the same level of citizenship. "Judah Benjamin" and various right-wing sources are responsible for this.

Berg uses 1 and 2 in his lawsuit, Donofrio, (which will be heard by SCOTUS tomorrow) uses 3. Most of the other lawsuits use various combos, many are simple copycats of Berg or Donofrio.

As for the Birth Certificate circus, the touchstone these cultists use for their belief is a nameless internet "expert" found at Townhall.com and Free Republic called "Polarik". He did the initial flawed analysis of the COLB images and immediately claimed them a forgery. Since then, any attempt to prove them as legit will result in Polarik, (Or as he's now styling himself "Dr. Ron Polarik, Ph.D." I suspect the Ph.D. is in bullshitology) within 24-48 hours claiming that THAT attempt is also a forgery. Several real computer forensic experts have checked his work and claimed it to be bogus, including Dr. Neal Krawetz at hackerfactor.com. Note, Polarik or Ron Polarik is not his real name, he claims he's keeping that a secret due to threats against his family.

Another player was "TechDude" originall from Pam Geller's "Atlas Shrugs" blog. "TechDude" originally claimed to have confirmed "Polarik's" findings, but then started to make more and more wild eyed claims, ending when he claimed that Maya Soetoro's name was on the Daily Kos and Fight The Smears copies of the COLB. When nobody else could prove this, he claimed a threat against his family and disappeared. Most sites expect "Atlas Shrugs" eventually rejected his claim, but his claims are still in Berg's lawsuit and Berg has mentioned them on the air once or twice - even though officially they don't use him as an example.

In addition to my writings at Yes To Democracy, also check out http://whatsyourevidence.com/

- Patrick McKinnion
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. They should subpoena the FR Morans to testify as to..
their expertise,turn the tables make them prove.
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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You know....
The SINGLE reason I'd want to see Berg's cases, (he has another one that's under seal right now, demanding Obama pay back all monies paid him as a senator due to his being an "illegal alien"), is that I'd LOVE to see Polarik and TechDude either have to appear an attempt to prove their work and their backgrounds, or continue to hide like cowards and have those parts of the case dismissed.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. No, thank *you*.
Awesome work and thank you for the new link, I will check it out.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks Pat for appearing, and thanks MPK for summoning him, like a genie,
to appear with a wonderful and succinct answer.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Very good.
Thank you.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Too silly to give attention ...
Edited on Thu Dec-04-08 11:53 PM by RoyGBiv
Yes, there are some things too silly to give attention to.

And this is one of them.

Why is it being given attention?

It sells newspapers to idiots.

There is no issue. Donofrio vs. Wells was submitted to Justice Thomas who distributed it to the court for *review* of whether it would be *considered* during a conference on Dec. 5.

It won't be.

This review process goes on constantly. It never makes news. EVER. Now, it has. Why? Because there are idiots, flat-faced idiots who have not the intelligence of a newt with its nervous system ripped out.

Why. WHY are we giving this any attention at all?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. On the other hand, it will be fun to see the issue slapped down.
That is, if the SCOTUS doesn't give us another turd ruling such as they did in Bush v. Gore.

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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. That will be enjoyable ...

The only purpose of the review, imo, is to rid us of this nonsense.

Of course, another idiot will arise with some other idiotic angle on it. But, I can dream.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. Until Obama personally knocks on every freeper's door, with his "vault"
birth certificate in hand for their inspection, accompanied by Jesus Christ himself, they won't believe he's an American.

That about sums it up.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. The Supreme Court is not "dinking around with it"
It is standard procedure that when one Justice dismisses a case which is then handed to another Justice to be brought before the entire court in conference so that everybody can dismiss it at the same time.

Thomas pulled nothing nefarious and the case will never get any further than this.
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