Do you think Obama would approve of groping of HRC in effigy?

[Nikki Stone1]

I think he is a classier and more moral guy than that. Obama knows that no one is free when others are oppressed. I think he would disapprove of anyone who supported oppressive attitudes no matter to whom they were directed. As the true heir of MLK, he most certainly feels this way.

Nikki

[camera obscura]

1. Effigy? What, did Favreau hang the cutout and burn it afterward?

He's more radical than I thought.

[Maven]

8. The word "effigy," by itself, has nothing to do with fire.

[camera obscura]

9. Within a political context it usually does.

[Maven]

16. No, it doesn't.

When you talk about "burning in effigy" the word effigy still just refers to the likeness of someone you hate, which you're burning in protest.

So it's entirely accurate to say that Favreau and his friend were groping Hillary in effigy, even though it's sort of an unusual turn of phrase. The effigy was the cardboard cutout, not the means to destroy or defile it.

[Alter Ego]

94. No, he cut a hole in the mouth and had sex with it.

Or at least that's what you'd think he'd done if you read some posts here about it.

He's a stupid 27-year-old kid who needs to be sat down and read the riot act, but to deny Obama his prodigious speechwriting talent would be criminal.

[JuniperLea]

158. Well said... eom

[Jakes Progress]

187. He's a stupid 27 year old

who was trusted to try to make Obama look good. He failed. There are a lot of mature 27 year olds. Being 27 is not an excuse. If he wanted a grown up job - he needs to be grown up. Are you saying that his speechwriting is what got Obama where he is, that Obama can't do better, that the administration will fall without this sophomoric twit?

If he were a real man, he would have apologized and resigned, not mewled for his job.

[dkf]

2. So you are saying Obama's speechwriter oppresses women?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

5. you would say it if Hillary's speechwriter had done it to Michelle.

[mwei924]

7. More like maybe Barack should keep an eye on him around his wfie. LOL.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

11. I'd agree with that.... Michelle is beautiful.

[dkf]

13. Even Barack knows not to take Michelle on.

She is a tough cookie.

[dkf]

10. Nah, Michelle can take care of herself.

That is something I completely respect about her.

I'd like to see some man try that on her. I'd lol.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

14. I'm sure you'd lol. I'm sure you wouldn't be outraged. *rolls eyes*

[mwei924]

17. Why would Clinton staffers even have a Michelle Obama cutout though?

She wasn't running for anything. If they were drunkenly posing with a Barack Obama cutout, I don't think anyone would take it seriously either. It'd be like, "Wow, that's kinda dumb. Moving on."

[dkf]

22. Some joker making fun of stuff doesn't really do it for me.

I get more upset over things like getting us into the Iraq War and causing thousands of needless deaths. Or deregulating industries that risk other peoples money and plunging us into a near depression.

Somehow, playing at groping a cardboard cutout pales in comparison.

Maybe its just me.

[mwei924]

3. Cardboard cutouts are more a symbol of your fame than an effigy.

[Bluenorthwest]

95. Words mean things!

The cardboard cutout effigy was a symbol of his former fame. There I used it all in a sentance for you.

[ProSense]

4. Do you think Hillary would care?

Commentary: Clinton changes her tune on sexism

If you're so concerned about Hillary, maybe you should write a letter to her and demand that she take up the case on behalf of the piece of cardboard.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

18. I honestly don't think hillary would care.. but I'm quite sure you would raise hell if Hillary's..

speechwriter grabbed Michelle's cardboard breast or Barack's cardboard dick.

[ProSense]

19. I pretty sure you're ridiculouly wrong.

It's friggin cardboard.

[mwei924]

20. Why would you assume that though?

The fact that anyone gets so upset over something this stupid is ridiculous. No matter what the cardboard cutout is--it's still a freakin' CARDBOARD CUTOUT.

[AllentownJake]

21. In April probably

Seeing that the Primary is fucking over and I have friends in the real world who supported Hillary and than Barack and understand they were going through the same emotions I was for their candidate no, no I would not.

It was a difficult primary. They were blowing off steam.

[Nikki Stone1]

32. I think Barack cares. He is above that kind of behavior: shouldn't we be?

No one is free while others are oppressed.

[ProSense]

46. Yeah, most of the people outraged about this were

claiming that a photo of Obama with his head turned up was a sexist snub of Hillary.

The outrage was phony then and it's phony now.

[mkultra]

54. wow, your radar is hyper acurate.

[Moochy]

112. Doesnt take radar to detect this thread as lame flame bait

[Whisp]

130. bwhahahah! or Handshake Gate...

o there were so many howling with rage here that he snubbed her! he snubbed her! how uppity of him!

meanwhile, photos showed that he'd of have to had 16 foot long arms...
but no, he snubbed her, the sexist pig!

ROFLMAO

[Pisces]

69. Women are not oppressed in this country, get over yourself!

[Balderdash]

108. I wish that those of us women that want to see sexism and

misogyny a thing of the past and just as egracious as racism could leave asshats like you behind. It's women like you that make it hard for the rest of us.

[Pisces]

118. It is extremist like you that help find the middle ground, but it is realist like me that help

enact practical equality in the workplace. It is women like me that are in or have been in the position to help more women get ahead in the workplace. This silly outrage over a cardboard cutout from some drunk young men is not the problem. It is men with power who feel women can't cut it against a man. Leave me behind because I don't burn my bra at every turn. That is Bush like thinking " you're either with me or against me" . Thanks but not thanks. I am definitely not with you on this one.

Count me in when the real issues present themselves.

[riqster]

141. "Women are not oppressed"????

So, less pay for equal work is not oppression? The fact that their reproductive rights are controlled by the government is not oppression?

So, what DO you think rises to the level of "oppression"?

[Pisces]

154. No we are not oppressed, we have some unfair practises but not oppression. Maybe you should travel

more often and see what oppression looks like before you go throwing the word around. I think the GLBT community has a case for oppression. Similar to the 60's civil rights movement, that fight is over. Now we are working to move beyond it. Hillary Clinton is tip of the iceberg. Women will no longer sit on sidelines, now that they believe they have a chance to run, similar to African Americans that will no longer wait their turn.

We can keep carrying around the same baggage or we can decide to unpack it and demand our due. I am sick of the moaning and groaning. Barack didn't moan and groan about how unfair it was that he had to be near perfect in his execution to win, he just did it. Maybe we can take a page from his winning book.

[riqster]

159. I have traveled quite extensively, thank you

And it really is matter of perception. For every PE Obama, there are thousands of oppressed blacks who can't simply think their way out of their situation. For every Hillary, there's are thousands of exploited women who can't just think their way out of their situation. And so on.

We must acknowledge the oppression that still exists and provide the respources people need to overcome them, not just pretend that it's all better now.

[Pisces]

167. I think people are pretending a cardboard cutout groping is synonymous with rape or molestation.

This groping bullshit is just that. You belittle real issues when you blow something like this out of proportion. That is my take on it. I am a woman and more offended by the silly outrage on this board than a cardboard groping.

[riqster]

197. To say it's your take is fine

..but when you globalized it and projected it onto the entire country ('no oppression') is where I took issue.

I agree, the groping issue is silly, one of those 'appearance of' things that infect our popular culture.

[Balderdash]

161. Never asked you to burn your bra, not a bra burner myself

The men in power have that power because women like you make excuses for them. Boys will be boys ya know. I'm not buying that you have any effect at all as a force for good for women.

[Pisces]

170. I wasn't trying to sell you anything.

[Whisp]

83. oppressed cardboard, yeh, I get it...

not

face it. Hillary is Not the symbol for oppressed women. No person with millions of dollars and passport like she has in da bank is oppressed, GET IT?

when you get that through a brain, it will make sense.

she cares shit all about the Iraqi women who have died and watched their children die over so many years under the Clinton watch and transfered to the Bush watch, and threatened to obliterate Iran, and their women and children as well...

I want to PUKE at the thought that a FUCKING CARDBOARD CUTOUT is more assaultive THAN CLUSTER FUCKING BOMBS and DEPLETED URANIUM and choking a whole country to near death.

*F*U*C*K*!
IDIOTS!

[AtomTan]

110. Wish I could recommend this post.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Whisp]

129. i don't know how you conducted yourself here when Palin

was being brutally skewered because of her gender. Lots of disgusting behaviour that made me heave, but that was ok because she was the enemy.
did you stand up for women then, I don't know, or do you just stand up for 'your' women?

lots of hypocits here on the subject, not calling you one, but scores of two faced whining people here.

[mwei924]

135. Honestly, people here were much more brutal to Palin than that stupid picture to Hillary

She got called "Caribou Barbie", everyone joked about the porno, etc. And people call Laura Bush a "Stepford wife". I don't believe anyone accused people of oppressing women. So I guess ONLY if it's done to Hillary...

[AtomTan]

109. I know, right. Hillary is so oppressed. That drunken doofus is totally keeping her down.

[LynneSin]

99. I think Hillary is being the better person in this situation but Obama would still be offended

And that's something I would expect from both of those.

As for the person who did it - well I hope they have their resume updated

[MyNameGoesHere]

121. Well leave it to you to find negativity

in HRC not taking on Obama's speech writer and being a team player. Other than leave this earth, is there anything positive you could find in HRC or the Clinton's? Is the axe down to a nub yet? Maybe you could pick up another one and start the grinding process all over again.

[countingbluecars]

6. I doubt that Hillary

is feeling oppressed by this silly stunt.

[AllentownJake]

12. Blowing off fucking steam

Seriously people...the primary sucked fucking ass for those of us involved on both sides. It got personal at times.

I'm sure there were a few Obama dart boards in Hillary offices.

[Clio the Leo]

15. I'm gonna go with "no" .....

.... would he spend as much time worrying over it as we are?

I'm still gonna go with "no."

[firedupdem]

25. I'm saying "no" with you.....sick of hearing about it too. n/t

[Clio the Leo]

33. So then why do WE keep reading the threads! It's like a train wreck!

Can't look away! Dont wanna look! lol

[firedupdem]

36. Cuz we're all crazy?? n/t

[Schema Thing]

23. Congrats, you've rendered oppression meaningless.

It happens, it is serious, but everything Nikki finds distasteful is not it.

[Nikki Stone1]

26. Well, as John Lennon used to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P91_H690z4

[AllentownJake]

29. Newsflash

4 of the 8 people who ran for President in the Democratic Primary contest now work in the Whitehouse.

[SoxFan]

24. OFFS

[FrenchieCat]

27. No.

And I'm sure that he didn't appreciate the hunt for Michelle's illusive "Whitey" tape either....
or the way some photoshopped pics to make Michelle look like a monkey.

and I'm sure if someone burned him or Hillary in Effigy, he would get over it. He certainly wouldn't drop a bomb if they did it in Iran.

In the end, people don't even have to apologize to Barack, and he's still doesn't get bent out of shape about the petty, silly stuff.

Politicians are like that. Most are tough, and understand that being a politician opens one up to public ridicule from the likes of Jon Stewart, SLN, Jay Leno, David Letterman, cartoonists, etc...It's a time honored custom, and usually can't be avoided.

The only times that pols care is when they are in the middle of a campaign....cause being outraged might help them gain the outraged vote. Otherwise, they most likely don't pay attention.

You think Hillary stays up at night because people have accused her of being a murderer, a lesbian, etc....? Do you think Obama stays up at night because people call him a Muslim or a communist?

I know that Bush's wife doesn't care much that people call her a Stepford wife....and she's not even a politician!

[Nikki Stone1]

28. Hey Frenchie Cat! Jan 20th is getting closer and closer.

:)

Do you happen to know if there are any post inauguration events open to the public? I've got a friend with a biracial son in DC and I know she wants to celebrate this with him especially.

[FrenchieCat]

30. I am in California, so I'm not certain as to what is happening in D.C.

Wish I could go, but I can't. :(

[Nikki Stone1]

35. Oh no. I wish you were going. I can't and I want pictures!

I will be glued to the TV though on Jan 20th. The air is going to be freer as soon as Barack Obama takes the oath of office. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

:)

[Erin Elizabeth]

31. Sigh.

1. Groping her "in effigy?" What does that even MEAN?

2. No, I don't think he'd approve of it.

3. I also don't think he would think it means HRC is oppressed.

[karynnj]

34. This is beyond excessive

In the first place the original photo did not look like groping, but rathre holding up a cardboard cutout. It was at worst stupid. Unless Favreau has a bed reputation with the women he worked with there is likely no real problem.

The ironic thing to me is that many of the "concerned" Clinton fans were the ones who thouht that those of us who felt there was something wrong with Bill Clinton's relationship with Lewinsky were wrong. In that case, it was the President and it was unsavory.

[Nikki Stone1]

38. I think Barack Obama will be a great president for women.

His speech writers need to follow his example. That's all. :)

[mwei924]

44. Perhaps Hillary's husband should also take note then..

[PBS Poll-435]

48. If you look at his work for women in Africa re: HIV/AIDS,

I think he is more than aware of the global plight of women.

[mwei924]

50. How do you know Jon Favreau isn't a big supporter for women's issues?

You're just judging based on one private drunken house party. If you're gonna look at people's personal behavior, then I would say Bill has a lot of learning to do.

[PBS Poll-435]

51. I am not making any judgment calls about Jon Favreau. I was talking about Clinton

and his continual support of important issues to women.

[mwei924]

56. How many harassment suits were filed against Clinton?

Even if many of them were exaggerated B.S., there was a pattern in his behavior and that's still a million times more "offensive" to women than this kid posing with a cardboard cutout.

[PBS Poll-435]

57. Again. I made no judgments about Favreau. Only Clinton

And Clinton's global record on issues important to women far outweighs the few accusations in the 90s.

[ieoeja]

125. Prior to his running for President? ZERO.

# of harassment suits filed against Clinton without funding from GOP operatives: also ZERO.

I don't care much about unsubstantiated lawsuits by Richard Melon-Scaife.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. No, but do I think Obama remembers what it's like to be 27?

Yes, I do.

[Nikki Stone1]

40. I think Obama knows how important everyone's rights are and how important respect is.

I hope he demonstrates the man he is when it comes to women's issues--including the constant barrage of sexist insults and garbage that we deal with on a daily basis. He surely knows what his wife deals with every day.

I can't wait for inauguration! :)

[mwei924]

42. How is a cardboard cutout taking away anyone's rights?

[MadBadger]

39. Oppressive? Tell that to people who actually have been opressed.

[Nikki Stone1]

41. Obama knows how women are oppressed on a daily basis.

I am sure he will do his best for us.

[mwei924]

43. Again, how is this oppression?

[FrenchieCat]

55. I don't think it was a good thing for Favreau to do.......

and putting the photo on the Internet certainly wasn't smart.

Obviously Favreau agrees, has he has apologized to Hillary Clinton.

They are all on the same team at this point.

Why we continue to discuss it says more about us and our boredom for the trivial
than anything else. We don't care so much to discuss the big things, and
to a degree we are the ones that need to get out of the primary mindset
we were in for so long. I think the primary players have moved on to much
bigger issues; stuff like making decisions about life and death and the economy and stuff.

[Balderdash]

60. It's not about the primary

it's about Democrats continuing to make excuses for sexism and misogyny.

[PBS Poll-435]

61. Boys will be boys!

[Nikki Stone1]

64. White supremacists will be white supremacists

Right?

[mwei924]

66. Equating this to white supremecists?

Wow, hyperbole much?

[PBS Poll-435]

67. Just the excuse I have been hearing around here regarding this matter

It is a shitty excuse.

[FrenchieCat]

76. He apologized to Sen. Clinton.

There's no need for excuses.

[mwei924]

63. Ok, if something like this causes outrage and accusations of sexism...

..then I might actually have to agree with Republicans on something. Democrats are WAY too sensitive. Jesus, it's a guy at a drunken house party posing with a cardboard cutout. Why are people treating this like it's a human rights violation?

[FrenchieCat]

73. It is about the primaries.

There is no excuses.

Just an apology.

If you want to draw blood, get in line.

[Balderdash]

93. It is NOT about the primaries

and if that had been a picture of Michelle I'd be just as angry, if it had been a picture of you I'd be just as angry. Democrats who turn a blind eye to misogyny and sexism are not Democrats. Racism isn't the only "ism" that is a problem in this country and I want to see the guy that I voted for make a statement about that, one that is loud and clear and leaves no room for interpretation, like "boys will be boys."

[mwei924]

152. You want him to make an official statement on this?

Wow, I wonder where that falls on his to-do list.

[Beacool]

79. Bingo, you got it!!!!

But of course it doesn't matter around here because it was a Hillary cut out. I've seen plenty of frat behavior in my time, but none of them was a PE's main speech writer. It was also particularly stupid to put it on Facebook. It's interesting how as time goes by we regress, instead of progress. It's fascinating to me that the most sexist comments in most blogs throughout this eternal election season were made by young men. I would have expected older men to be leery of a woman becoming president and Commander in Chief. But to my utter surprise, the most misogynist comments were from guys younger than 30.

I think that there's a coarsening of society that makes this kind of behavior acceptable. Maybe it's the internet, 24 hrs. cable TV or just the dumbing down of the nation, but it's disheartening. Women are routinely referred to as hos and bitches (my neighbor was shocked to hear a boy tell a nun outside a catholic academy that he was waiting for his bitch). Girls as young as 12 are sending naked photos of themselves to their buddies. As bad as it is to see young guys treat girls like raw meat, it's even more upsetting to se these girls have so little self respect that they would allow someone to debase them. Then again, when even very young preteen girls are sexualized and when these same girls look up to the Paris and Britneys of the world, what is to be expected?

I'm sounding like I'm 110 years old when I'm not. LOL!!!

[mwei924]

84. Right, because men were sooooo respectful to women back in the day.

Women are actually major public figures now. A little mocking and embarrassment comes with the territory. And if something as stupid as this gets treated like a crime against humanity, then it's really diminishing the real problems of institutional inequality. Being too protective and sensitive when it comes to a female politician doesn't do anyone any favors. It just plays into the sexists' claim that women are too weak to withstand the heat of politics.

I mean when Sarah Palin and Nancy whats-her-face bitched about "lipstick on a pig" or Tina Fey skits being sexist, we all laughed at them.

[Balderdash]

102. Do you have a clue about what is sexist?

Lipstick on a pig can be said about anyone and has. How was Tina Fey sexist? That picture of Hillary being groped is not only sexist but it's misogynistic too. It's good to have a sense of humor but not when it comes to blatant sexism, it has to stop. No one has answered yet if it would be different if a Michelle Obama cutout had been used.

[mwei924]

132. Umm.. actually a lot of people have answered the Michelle Obama question.

You just chose not to read them, I guess. Basically, it would get the same reaction from me, "Wow, that looks dumb. Next issue please."
Also, it'd be like, I don't blame the guy-- Michelle is a very attractive woman.

I'm just saying your claims that this picture is an evil sexist oppression of women agenda is equally ridiculous as Sarah Palin and club claiming that Tina Fey is sexist.

[Beacool]

103. I have no problem with humor or mocking politicians,

but when the PE's chief speech writer is caught at a recent party copping a feel of a cut out of his boss's former opponent and future SOS, as his buddy wearing an "Obama Staff" t-shirt is kissing it and placing a beer bottle near its mouth, then I think that they crossed the line of good taste. More stupid yet, they put it on Facebook.

Do I think that it's grounds for dismissal? No I don't, but he sure as hell showed poor judgment for a guy in his position.

[mwei924]

133. What's the problem then?

We both agree that its dumb, but nothing to get fired over. It's also not some evil sexist agenda-- it's a drunken party.

[Pisces]

124. Obama knows how to wade through the bullshit and this is bullshit.

[PBS Poll-435]

45. Gee, who do you think was holding the camera?

:sarcasm: <- if needed

[Colobo]

47. It's a private party and a cardboard. Who cares.

[seaglass]

49. Obama respects Hillary unlike many of his primary supporters

so I would say no, Obama does not approve.

[ProSense]

52. Oh, please. Give the phony "Obama respects Hillary" BS to justify this phony outrage a rest.

Hillary didn't give a damn about the piece of cardboard.

Commentary: Clinton changes her tune on sexism

[seaglass]

91. You've proven repeatedly that you are narrow minded when it comes to Hillary

so, sorry, but your words and opinion about this have no credibility.

[ProSense]

100. Right, but claiming a piece of cardboard is the victim of sexism is credible?

Idiotic.

[Beacool]

104. Narrow minded?

Try blind.........

:eyes:

[happychatter]

53. Why don't obsessive fanatics check for fucking duplicates before posting?

oh, I know

they want nothing else discussed until everyone has sufficiently kissed their whiny asses

or they've stirred up enough, under the bridge and stinking shit... so they can sleep at night

[Billy Shears]

58. flamebait trash

[PBS Poll-435]

59. Welcome to DU!

:rofl:

[apocalypsehow]

62. "groping in effigy" - Good fucking night. I've seen it all, now.

:eyes:

[bridgit]

65. no

[Pisces]

68. Stupid post, so sick of the faux outrage and comparing this to the oppressed is ridiculous.

I am a woman and am not offended. Are people suppose to be perfect pc robots????? Maybe this was not in good taste, but so what.

[Bluebear]

74. "faux outrage" - - "pc"..... I am sick of those stupid terms, so now what?

[Tarheel_Dem]

70. This reminds me of the "poutrage" at Keith during the primaries. He

was accused of sexism, and everything else you can think of, by some. This is just more phoney outrage. Some people just aren't happy unless they have something to be pissed off about. This is pc, on steroids.

[mwei924]

72. Liberals are always mad at something..

..we won the election so we can't be mad about that. So we've moved from criticizing war/torture/wire tapping to Facebook pictures!

[Tarheel_Dem]

75. Precisely. I don't know if we got a good 24 hrs. to celebrate before they

started in. With the return of the primary sore losers, this board has become unbearable.

[Beacool]

80. Olbermann?

That windbag with an overinflated ego can go to hell. I stopped watching MSNBC after his 9 minute diatribe against Hillary for what Gerry Ferraro had said. Bad enough to hear that insufferable jerk Tweety, but I expected KO to know better. I haven't watched that network since then and haven't missed it.

x(

[Leftist Agitator]

105. What, don't Hillarites like the truth?

Oh, right, her rabid Hillarite base ate that Bosnia bullshit up like it were fucking cheesecake.

Of COURSE Hillarites don't like the truth!

[Beacool]

128. Hillarites? Is that the opposite of Obamots Kool Aid drinkers?

I thought that we were one happy united family now.

Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy........

:eyes:

As for the windbag, his diatribes are a bore and a testament to the love he feels for the sound of his own voice. Truth? That's quite subjective around here and in the media.

;-)

[Tarheel_Dem]

168. And he apparently hasn't missed you either. Their ratings continue

to amaze me. What he lost in rabid Hillarites, he obviously made up with Obamanoids like me. Happy Faux watching. Gee, if only you had extended your boycott to DU. :rofl:

[Spider Jerusalem]

71. I think a lot of people are painfully lacking in a sense of humour.

And I think this whole thing is a completely absurd case of much ado about nothing.

[Mushroom]

77. No, he wouldn't approve that message n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

78. I agree. We've got a good man as president now.

We should start acting like it.

[Whisp]

81. good lord shut the f up.

oppressing a cardboard cutout?
cmyk ink smeared over dead trees?

get a fucking grip on what is important.

THIS is NOT

[ecstatic]

82. If Hillary could forgive McCain, after the nasty things he said about

her young daughter (not to mention when McCain co-signed the guy who called her a bitch), then surely she can forgive Favreau.

[mwei924]

85. I really think Hillary could care less, like she doesn't have other things to do right now.

Why so many people are freaking out over it like the guy wore a swastika is beyond me.

[atimetocome]

96. making fun of women in that manner is demeaning. No way around that.

[mkultra]

98. making fun of anyone in that fashion is demeaning

but it doesn't forward any existing stereo types about women thus it fails the sexism test.

Sexism is NOT defined as ANYTHING that upsets a woman.

[Metric System]

86. It kind of bothers me that there are so many here who seem to see nothing at all wrong with that

picture. No, I'm not saying he should be fired. He has apologized, Hillary has supposedly accepted, so end of story. HOWEVER, that doesn't make the picture OK or defensible, IMO. My issue is with those who can't even see why it's degrading.

[pecwae]

87. Had it been a picture

of almost anyone else, say Michelle Obama, postings would be quite a bit different.

You're right the guy needn't be fired, but those chalking this up to 'youthful, high spirits' are blind to how this act perpetuates acceptable bigotry toward women.

[mwei924]

131. Bigotry towards women? Only in an oversensitive liberal forum..

Let's not pretend like men AND women don't often look at each other as sexual objects. Yes, men objective women. And you know what, women objectify men as well (what the hell is Sexiest Man Alive about? Kindness? Was "Obama girl" really interested in his health care plan?). And I'm sure there are also men who objectify men, and women who objectify women. It's such a crazy exaggeration to link this silly frat house photo to sexism or oppression of women.

Can we move on to an issue that actually has consequences for more than like 4 people?

[pecwae]

144. Move on to whatever the hell you want.

[mwei924]

153. Kinda hard when there's like 50 thread on this, and barely any to do with real issues.

It's like our version of the birth certificate bonanza.

[FlaGranny]

88. Oh, for Christ sake

There are a bunch of people on this board just WAITING to take offense at something they perceive as sexism against women. Well, this aint't it.

[alwysdrunk]

89. There is sexism and then there is DU sexism

Two very different concepts. There are some people who can't make it through the day without having something to be outraged(!) by. DU far exceeds it quota there.

[FlaGranny]

90. Yes.

I edited out most of my post. Just decided I didn't want to say all that. :-)

[Balderdash]

101. It is it, it can't get much more it. But you keep allowing

this kind of crap, you not only hurt all women but human beings as a whole. If it had been kept to themselves we would never have known about it and they could have remained closet sexists. But it's now a part of the internet and can be found and displayed by anyone.

[mwei924]

134. Oh boy...

You know, the one thing I can agree with Bill O'Reilly on, is that liberals are too PC-sensitive. I hate agreeing with that asshole but in this case, the guy's got a point.

It's like that episode of the West Wing, when Sam makes a comment about Ainsley's appearance, and some lady overhears it and accuses him of being sexist.

[FlaGranny]

140. That is

pardon me, a bunch of crap. Young men are horney and they horse around. It's about time some people realize that. The sexists I know are not in the closet. They'll tell you women are not as smart or can't run a business or can't drive a car or they'll disregard women as not important. Sexism is NOT young men joking amongst themselves about sex or women's body parts. Young men are very interested in females and their body parts. For crying out loud, please tell me how many men are NOT interested in such things? 2 maybe?

You'll probably think I'm reverse sexist when I tell you I've always been stimulated by men and their body parts and I even once made a sculpture of a male body part and gave it to a female friend as a gag gift and we both had a great laugh over it. It was about 8 inches long and made of green clay so I put it on its own little pedestal and engraved it's name on the pedestal - "Jolly Green Giant." She kept it for years and showed it to her friends when they visited. It may have been slightly embarrassing to us if the world knew about it, but it wasn't abnormal IMHO and it wasn't sexist as we both like and respect men. I wasn't even 27. I was in my 40s when I did that. This is the same kind of thing. All that said, I am not even sure this young fellow was aware of what cardboard body part he was holding.

[Jakes Progress]

146. So you have a thing about getting groped

and played with. A lot of insecure women do. Just because you like it doesn't mean it is a good thing. Best thing we can do is suggest therapy and keep the grand kids away from your house.

[mwei924]

150. Again, Hillary was not actually groped.

So I guess if I held a magazine the wrong way, I could be groping Leonardo DiCaprio?

[Jakes Progress]

174. You're really fixated

with groping Hillary. This whole thing seems to be feeding the dreams or several of those in denial.

[mwei924]

181. Wait, what's the title of this thread again?

Oh right, "groping Hillary in effigy". Gee you'd think the OP had bizarre sexual fantasies.

[FlaGranny]

194. Can you read?

For Christ's sake where did I say I liked to be groped? Or even that I would consider groping someone else? Insecure HELL NO. Completely secure is more like it. I'm not intimidated by cardboard or clay or folks fooling around. I'm certainly aggravated, though, by holier than thou assholes who can't find anything better to do than look for things to be outraged about. They need to get lives and get concerned about important things, like maybe volunteer at an abused women's shelter or campaign against unequal pay or SOMETHING.

INSECURE people worry about non issues like cardboard groping and show themselves to be overly sensitive AND humorless - in addition to being insecure.

Take some advice from an old lady and get charged up over something important.

[WinkyDink]

92. OFGS.

[Patiod]

97. I think he would tell him to grow the hell up

and then ask the guy if his parent never sat him down and had "the Facebook" discussion with him (as in, "don't post anything on Facebook that you wouldn't want published in the paper or stapled to your resume")

But mostly he'd probably tell him to grow the hell up

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beacool]

107. If that had been the case he would have been fired.

:shrug:

[Moochy]

111. lame

flame stoking post by a flame posting poster.

[Rebubula]

113. As Someone...

...That has had dreams of groping Hillary (sorry...she is an attractive woman with power - That IS Sexy) - the only problem that I have with this is that he is too dumb to NOT have taken a picture. We all have done things that would be offensive to someone else.

Thank goodness there was no internet and digital cameras when I went to college.

[rch35]

115. youre an idiot. nt

[WI_DEM]

116. let's face it, it was a stupid, tacky thing that he did.

[Neshanic]

117. Democrats being Democrats. We fuck around alot. No biggie. It's funny.

[Balderdash]

119. You couldn't possibly be a Democrat and I have doubts

about all of the other asses that say they can't see why that picture would be degrading to women. Women should just shut the fuck up and take it right?

[Neshanic]

123. Another from the "Democrats for Purity in Thought League."

[ieoeja]

120. I suspect he wouldn't give a flying fuck. n/t

[alwysdrunk]

122. You sure about that? It was groping in effigy.

I mean, groping in effigy. You really think he has no idea how degrading, humiliating and disrespectful that the act of groping in effigy really and truly is?

Have you never met someone who was groped in effigy? I think you would change your opinion if you had.

Groping in effigy, it's a horribly destructive trend in our society that must be stopped! WE have to speak out! We NEED our president-elect to take the lead on this issue! NOW!!!!

[polmaven]

127. I think he WOULD and DOES

care a great deal about respect for women.

[mwei924]

136. Yeah, after trying to fix the economy and dealing with two wars..

..I'm sure he stays up late at night thinking about a facebook picture.

[Life Long Dem]

126. You know what gets me pissed off more than anything?

MSM. And DU'ers pushing MSM's propaganda.

[Levgreee]

137. Yes, he would have been behind the two, drinking a beer and cheering

then when they were done he would have made out with the cardboard

[Balderdash]

138. Then I voted for the wrong guy. nt

[mwei924]

139. Cause we all know how much McCain respects women..

Unless calling Chelsea Clinton ugly, Hillary a bitch and his wife a cunt is just normal. But a facebook picture--- THAT'S OPPRESSION.

[Balderdash]

155. I would never vote for McCain. I think that you deliberately

misconstrue what I'm saying because you want to be able to feel good about yourself even while degrading women or laughing about it. That's ok, the grownups will take care of it. Meanwhle, maybe you could be somewhere showing someone, anyone your boob.

[mwei924]

180. You implied that maybe you voted for the wrong guy.. what other guy was running again?

[stillcool]

165. I think you did..

But don't fret...soon enough there will be other candidates who will be more to your liking. It's only four years, and nobody can out-do Bush.

[Balderdash]

172. I'm actually pretty happy with Obama

and I don't believe he's amused by this at all.

[leftofthedial]

142. the guy was stupid and sophomoric

period.

end of story.

this has been given WAY more time than it deserves.

[Forkboy]

143. I think he's writing a song about it as we speak.

[rucky]

145. There was only one real boob in that photo. n/t

[Jakes Progress]

147. All the sophomoric frats and frattellas

still don't answer the question about how they would feel if mccain did that to a poster of Michelle. Or if someone did a fake cartoon version of the daughters having sex. They only approve because it was Hillary. Any normal person would be offended by this action. Any honest person would admit so.

[Forkboy]

148. Or maybe honest people can have differing opinions?

[MoonRiver]

149. Exactly.

But you'll never get any honesty from the irrational Clinton haters. I can't imagine how bad their cognitive dissonance must be after Barack thought so well of Hillary that he appointed her his SoS.
:nuke::nuke::nuke:

[mwei924]

151. Like 50 people have already responded to the Michelle Obama thing.

As long as it wasn't violent like dismantling or burning, I don't see why people would be mad. Hell, if McCain staff were just partying with a Michelle Obama cutout, that'd be the nicest thing they did regarding her.

Having sex? No one's having any sex in the picture. If he had humped the thing, maybe.

What about all the jokes about Palin being called "Caribou Barbie" or Laura Bush being a "Stepford wife"? Those are more "sexist" than this, but people just laughed along because of a little something called humor. Personally, I don't even give a shit about the supposedly controversial New Yorker cover.

[Balderdash]

157. here you go again, you have no clue what sexism is.

There may have been sexist jokes about Palin but when I defended her against sexism right here in liberal land I was attacked and called a PUMA or a Republican, probably by you. I consistently point out the sexism and misogyny that gets posted here and on other liberal blogs and boards. We're supposed to be the good guys but it seems we've been infiltrated by a bunch of childish a-holes who have no class and no respect.

[mwei924]

169. I have no clue if you did so or not, but if you did, that's fine.

I just choose not to be outraged by every silly joke that may have referenced a woman's gender. Why not just write complaint letters to all the comedians who tell dirty jokes? They get far more exposure than anyone here.

[Jakes Progress]

175. They willfully remain clueless.

To admit their puerile sexism would cut out half of their social life and a majority of what they find funny. It is the bane of the party that we have those who consider themselves progressive or liberal and therefore think that anything racist or sexist they say or do is okay. I mean, their liberal. How could they be sexist.

I used to work with a teacher who was a big Democrat. He told race jokes all the time. He said it was okay because he wasn't a racist. Back when clayton williams was running for governor against Ann Richards, he told reporters a crude joke about rape. It helped cost him the election. Later when the Dems were celebrating, some guys laughed about it and made some more crude comparisons. I remember Billie Carr, a heroic organizer in Texas Democratic politics, shaking her head in disgust. "They just don't get it" was her comment. It's wrong when republicans do it. And it's wrong when guys who think they are above it do the same thing.

No sense in arguing with them. They refuse to see.

[mwei924]

178. So shoot me. I like Judd Apatow movies. I'm a girl and I don't think they're offensive.

I'm not gonna live like the Amish because of a few dirty jokes.

[Jakes Progress]

182. I bet the guys see you as a real buddy.

They like chicks who bring beer to the game parties.

By the way. You don't know much about the Amish. Read a little feminist literature. It's a movement that gave you a lot.

[mwei924]

183. There's nothing wrong with partying with guys.

Half the people on the planet ARE guys, might as well party a little. We go to the same school, we respect each other professionally and intellectually, but that doesn't mean we can't have some fun. And yes, sometimes guys objectify women. And sometimes, women objectify men. So they can read Playboy without me lecturing them all day long. And I can enjoy my Sexiest Man Alive issue the same.

When I said I wasn't going to live like the Amish, I meant, I'm not going to cut off the modern world because some people might make dirty jokes.

[FlaGranny]

196. That seems to be your agenda

doesn't it? Posting on as many boards as possible about sexism and misogyny. You do realize that very few men actually hate women. It seems to us "normal" people that WE are being infiltrated by a handful of overly sensitive children. But this takes the cake, it sure does. It is ridiculous beyond words.

Stop posting on boards about perceived insults and go out into the world and do something real. Counsel women who have been abused (but try not to let them think that a piece of cardboard can be abused), demand equal pay, demand that rapists be put away for life without parole, you know what to do. If you do all those things everyone on this board will cheer you along and tell you "great job." What you are doing is extremely counterproductive, divisive, and might I say useless?

[Jakes Progress]

177. So having sex would be too much?

Is touching a butt over the line? How about a breast? What about writing dirty words?

You're reply seemed to say that some things are too much. Then you seem to say nothing is, that everything is a joke. Laugh it up.

I believe you cannot find a theme here because you still refuse to reflect. Just how is it that you think is is a good thing that a man whose job it is to make our next president look good does this? What rationale can you devise to make it okay for grown men to behave this way? Get the brain trust down at Hooters working on that.

[mwei924]

179. I'm just saying that your sex comparison makes no sense since he wasn't implying "sex" with it.

"Having sex" with cardboard would just be more tasteless and crude. I don't find it sexist or "oppressing to women" either way. It's just dumb.

[Jakes Progress]

184. What is over the line?

Anything? Does anything matter? Is anything important to you.

Oh well. Party on, dude.

[mwei924]

185. Is a silly facebook photo important to me? Simple answer: NO.

Sex-related humor does not bother me in the slightest, because it's humor. It's not meant to be serious.

If the guy had said something like, "She can't be good at her job because she's a woman", then I'd take it up as an issue. But facebook? I'm sorry but it's just too stupid.

[Jakes Progress]

186. "Fiddle dee dee. I'll worry about that tomorrow."

Just a little word to those who think that facebook is all silly games. Just try to get a "real" job with that crap as a measure of your seriousness. Not in my business. You're right about it being stupid. Stupid is thinking that this kind of thing is okay, that bragging about it is okay, that it doesn't matter.

I didn't ask if a facebook page was important to you. I asked if you found anything serious. Your disingenuous suggestion that "a guy" saying something is my answer. That you don't find any sexual humor to be sexist says a lot.

[mwei924]

188. I'm sorry if I can't have the same level of "offended-ness" as you.

I just don't care about that stuff. I don't know people who care about this stuff. I mean, lecturing about it isn't gonna make me care. To me, humor is humor. If something's really funny, it can go pretty far without me getting upset over it. If a movie or TV show is really great, then I don't really care how much sex or violence it has.

Facebook is silly! That's the point of facebook! There's groups called "Harry Potter Pick Up Lines" and "Which Sex & the City character are you?". I don't go on that site to be serious. No one does. You chat with some friends, comment on things and join some funny groups. That's it. I know a lot of people who have "real" jobs and can still enjoy some silly facebook time.

You can assume whatever personal shit you want about me based on that, but you don't know me. I'd prefer if you didn't tell me how I'm such a bad person for not being as outraged about this as you.

[Jakes Progress]

189. Don't worry about it.

It'll come. You have a desire to express yourself and that will lead to many places.

The point isn't that facebook is a serious place. The point isn't that sex is bad. If you don't care about sex and violence and how it relates to women, that is your privilege. But it is not a virtue. Somewhere, sometime it will come to you that actions matter, that symbolism has meaning, that laughing at other people's degradation is not cool, ignoring what is happening has consequences. As you say, lecturing won't make you care. But life has a way of doing that.

Sorry to have ripped your buzz.

[mwei924]

190. I'm a low maintenance feminist.

I have all my rights. It doesn't mean I don't care about women's issues that would actually affect my life. I don't particularly care to control what other people say or make jokes about.

[Jakes Progress]

191. So you got your rights,

to hell with others. Just how do you think you got those rights? A lot of women did care about controlling what other people said and made jokes about. If they hadn't, you wouldn't have those rights now. So you don't want to do anything about protecting them or passing them on, at least acknowledge the work done and sacrifice made for you. You don't have to go and upset your standing as cool chick to anyone that might think less of you, but if you choose to use the word feminist, know that there is nothing low maintenance about women's rights.

[mwei924]

193. I just don't think jokes affect my rights as a woman.

Look, if someone else feels uncomfortable about a joke if it was made in the workplace, they have every right to complain and try to file suit for harassment (and see if it goes anywhere). I'm just not one of those people who would do that and I don't plan on being that. Everyone has their own limit on whats funny and whats offensive.

We have the right to vote, work, drive, and attend college. The women who fought for those rights marched against oppressive laws, not jokes.

[Jakes Progress]

199. You've said this over an over.

You don't think any joke is a problem. If it makes you giggle, then it's okay. History and a study of human nature do not support your position. Oppressive laws were countenanced because of public opinion. What society chooses to laugh at is a part of what creates public opinion. If groping a woman is funny, then women are degraded. Society won't support the rights of people that they think are not worth having those rights. Before feminism, it was laughable to think that a woman would go to college or actually have a meaningful job.

I know you don't see that. My guess is that you are young, don't see the problems that others have, and haven't had to face these things yourself. You do show a willingness to discuss and debate, so I believe you will grow into a fervent feminist. It will take a few devastating revelations, and I'm sorry for the hurt they will cause you. But they will make you strong. When this has happened, don't be too hard on yourself for your carefree youth. The term callow youth wasn't an idle invention. So go ahead and work, drive, vote, and attend college. Try to check out a little feminist history while there. Good luck.

[mwei924]

200. I'm just not feeling the oppression.

At my top 20 university, 3 out of 4 of my current professors are women. In most of my classes, girls outnumber guys (and I'm a hard science major). No guy I've encountered here didn't take my intelligence or abilities seriously or looked down on it. But we also joke around and laugh at everybody, and sometimes the jokes are crude. That hasn't hurt us at all. They don't think girls are bimbos because they might joke around about boobs. And I don't think men are idiots because I make jokes and laugh at them. Watching "Pineapple Express" or "Tropic Thunder" didn't turn people against each other or make them think less of anyone.

[Jakes Progress]

201. So you currently live a privileged life.

That doesn't mean that all that "top 20" hob nobbing and banter didn't come to you because others fought to make it available. Walk over the liberal arts part of the campus and examine some of the soft sciences. Just be open to the possibility that just because you don't recognize something doesn't mean it isn't happening. The "top fifty" colleges where I deal are hot beds of nepotism and sexism. The game is tough and subtle. Those three of four know how to play.

Your right to blithely ignore reality is a gift to you from a phalanx of feminists who served up your carefree existence with their sweat and sacrifice. You would be foolish to believe that your daughters will enjoy such freedom if you don't protect it for them. Your existential moment will come whether you want to feel it or not. You will be required to bend tot he role chosen for you or buck the tide. How easy or how hard that decision will be depends on knowing about the real world. Red pill or blue?

[mwei924]

202. I just don't think enjoying Tropic Thunder is going to re-oppress women.

And actually I'm a double major, one of which is a social science. I've never experienced any sexism from any professors or TAs. None of my friends have that I know of. My mom works for a big company, in a career area that is mostly male (engineering). She's never complained about sexism and her male peers don't show anything but respect (and I think many of them still like R-rated humor and rap music). I guess I live in a very progressive part of the country, but I just don't see sexist pigs everywhere.

I don't feel like I should complain about silly things like jokes or crude movies when I don't see them as making guys look down on women. Maybe for men who are already sexist, jokes matter. But I just haven't seen it.

[Jakes Progress]

203. I know.

[ProSense]

156. James Carville on CNN commenting on the grope-gate outrage

Video: It's a piece of cardboard, stupid.


:rofl:



Report: Obama's transition team said Favreau apologized, Hillary accepted, issue over.

[JuniperLea]

160. There's a big difference between approval

And trying to keep the lid on something stupid like this. I bet Hillary busted a gut.

[IndianaGreen]

162. Many feminists looked the other way when Bill Clinton groped women in the WH

They lost a lot of credibility then, and they haven't regained it.

[Balderdash]

163. What does that have to do with anything?

Many women were outraged by Bill's activities but it should have been a private matter between husband and wife.

[IndianaGreen]

166. Groping is a criminal act. It is no longer a private matter between a man and his enabling spouse!

Here we got a cardboard cutout. Not even on the same universe!

[Balderdash]

171. Groping is a definition of an act and it can be a legal term

An affair is between the parties involved.

[FlaGranny]

195. What is the legal term

for groping cardboard? Gropeboardinality?

[anonymous171]

164. Are you guys still talking about this?

:eyes:

[onenote]

173. sad, isn't it?

[raventattoo]

176. Very, very sad. Move on people!!!

I was shocked tonight when I saw this still coming up under current posts.
A college age young guy has a few drinks and gropes a cardboard cutout of HRC.
I just think if I were her, I would see that and be holding my sides from hurting so much from laughing.
I have a very difficult time believing this made news!

Move on people!!!!

[LoZoccolo]

192. Of course he would; that's why I voted for him.

:eyes:

[bertman]

198. Of all the STUPID-ASS posts I have seen on DU, THIS IS THE MOST ASININE. Get a fucking life, Nikki.