The bill failed because of UAW not accepting cuts to match the Honda/Toyota hourly wage?

[KansasVoter]

This is from CNN:

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States.

Currently, analysts estimate the union workers at U.S. automakers make about $3 to $4 per hour more than the non-union U.S. employees of foreign automakers like Toyota and Honda, according to the Center for Automotive Research.

Why would the UAW not agree to this if it means keeping their jobs? Are the Honda/Toyota workers poor?

[Doctor_J]

1. Stop listening to Hate Radio and the rest of Big Media

they are liars, just like the Repukes who feed them their copy.

[EFerrari]

7. That's how it was recapped on CSPAN, too, fyi. n/t

[Hanse]

2. Honda and Toyota workers make more than U.S. autoworkers.

When you factor in benefits.

Mitch McConnell is simply lying.

[madfloridian]

4. Yes, Rachel showed a chart. You are right.

[CatWoman]

48. and bonuses

of which UAW workers got NONE

[Windy]

3. they already gave concession. The new workers coming in are making the same as the foreign workers

However, the cost of living, at least here in Michigan is MUCH higher than it is in the south. they have made numerous concessions over the last few years...

[firedupdem]

5. The UAW has made significant concessions the last two years..

also, Keith Olbermann showed different numbers tonight regarding pay. The bigger issue for me is why didn't they demand that the CEO's who make millions take a pay cut? Why make the little guy take a cut in pay before they would vote to kill an entire industry? These republicans are fucking pigs. They care nothing about the average worker.

[sandnsea]

6. Oh for chrissake, is $14 cheap enough for you?

Our economy is crashing because people don't make enough money to pay for anything, and can't get credit on these cheap-ass jobs. How fucking bad does it have to get before people will fight the goddamn speculators for a decent standard of living.

[KansasVoter]

9. I am asking not agreeing. But cutting $4 to get money might be a short term solution!!!

[sandnsea]

15. Oh my god.

Do you know that union workers made MORE in the 80s than they do now? MORE. In real dollars. Grocery checkers made $12-$16 hr, not less than $10 like they do now. Why? So the "investor class" could get rich, then put all their money in the mortgage scheme and blow our economy all to hell.

Why oh why do the workers ALWAYS have to take the hit. What causes you to think that way?

[babylonsister]

8. They've already cut the wages before today. Bogus argument. nt

[KansasVoter]

10. Also, Honda workers in Ohio have voted not to unionize every time...why?

Does anyone know the reason?

[Lerrad]

20. Because they treat their employees with dignity, and respect and award them for doing a goo d job.

There are also lots of hidden benefits like an indoor fitness center, child day care at the plant etc, the list goes on and on.

[uponit7771]

51. Yeap, while the big 3 chiefs fly in on private jets

[NMDemDist2]

11. they did, they just wanted to wait til 2011 instead of next month

you give up part of your wages, the new guys are already only making $14 an hour.

the US Government pays their janitors more than that!

[napi21]

12. That's partly true, but if there was an agreement that UAW workers

would concede to parity pay, it would mean the death of the UAW! Why would anyone pay union dues if there's no advantage? The Pubs are quite ingenious at crafting their objections to make them sound like sonething they're not.

[JeffR]

13. Can't believe you take anything McConnell says at face value.

He's a liar.

And even if, for once, he's telling the truth, he's a snake. Why on earth should these workers take a $3 or 4$ an hour pay cut? They shouldn't, period.

And that this is being coughed up to rationalize McConnell's unwillingness to extend a LOAN to the car companies after extending an immeasurably bigger GIFT to the financial industry with no similar carping about paychecks for Wall Street workers, execs and directors, well, it speaks volumes.

Do you want a viable middle class in America or not? Mitch McConnell obviously doesn't give a crap. Do you really think his position makes sense?

[kywildcat]

22. McConnell's wife is the labor secretary

She's very anti union and even more anti worker. This needs to be screamed from mountain tops. This also needs to be stated every time that chinless twit opens his mouth.

edit for spelling-even though this twit has chins to spare

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. Fuck you McConnell, you treasonous bug-eyed son of a bitch

Another poster child for the destruction of Diebold machines. That piece of shit should be gone by now.

[lapfog_1]

16. Well, for one thing... the Toyota and Honda (and all the other

southern state foreign car plants) are not union, so the workers do not pay union dues.

So if the UAW workers (who do NOT make $70+/hour) take a pay cut down to parity with the rural southern auto workers, they would then lose money (compared to non union workers) if they keep the union... or the union becomes totally ineffective since it would have limited funds.

The other thing is that, while the disparity isn't as great as it once was, the cost of living is higher in Michigan and Wisconsin and Ohio than it is in Alabama, Kentucky, etc.

and why in the hell should the pay of auto workers be dictated by Congress? The Union offered a lot of concessions. I didn't hear any concessions from AIG or Bear Sterns when we bailed them out.

Not to mention when those foreign car companies set up plants all over the south, they got huge tax breaks and other considerations to locate their plants there. More than the bailout money for GM and Chrysler. Something like an average of $200K per worker.

And, as opposed to almost every blue state, the red states take much more federal dollars than their citizens contribute, whereas blue states contribute more federal dollars than they get back.


I think it's past time to let the South declare victory in the civil war and form their own government. But they have to take almost the entire population of Idaho and they have to provide a place in Texas for all of the Mormons.

I'll miss Florida. Sorry folks.

(for all the redstate DUers, you know this is a joke, right?)

[CreekDog]

17. Not true and the UAW apparently did agree to this anyway

the competitor's wages are actually higher than the Big 3.

so if this is the reason given for failure, it's false reasoning.

[xchrom]

18. mcconnell is quite simply an enemy of the american people.

and continuing the lies here about uaw workers shows you need to where mcconnell should go.

[depakid]

21. The only way to deal with Senators like McConnel and their constituents

is to cut off appropriations for pet projects in their states.

It's the only language ideologues understand.

[xchrom]

26. i agree -- but i don't see it happening.

there is agreement in the financial mainstream and the political mainstream to drive down the wage earnings
of a whole bunch of americans -- not just blue collar -- this extends beyond that .

this is only a blatant example of a consensus.

[kywildcat]

28. As a constituent of Mr. McConnell's who has voted against him

over and over and over and over-the rest of the country needs to know-and to scream from the top of their lungs-McConnell's wife is the Secretary of Labor-Elaine Chao. She is anti labor and anti union (witness the past 8 years and the crap she's trying to pull now).
Nothing in KY surprises me any more-but that the media and the rest of the country continous to fail to point out this bit of information-and to use it to disqualify his every statement-is beyond me.

[depakid]

29. Yep- the corporate media and their wilfull failure emphasize things like this out

-something they have no problem at all doing in MUCH lesser instances when a Dem or progressive issue is involved, is a major selling point for media dicestment and re-regulation.

Hopefully, as Republicans and the corporatists continue to contribute in their own special way to the ongoing economic decline, there will be some Mme Defarges out there who remember and hold people accountable when various matters come up for votes (or for investigation).

[LiberalFighter]

38. McConnell and his followers down in Kentucky must eat all that bluegrass

and stand too close to the rear of the horses. Mainly with their head up the horse's ass.

[LiberalFighter]

37. That isn't enough.

If only their testicles could be extracted, nuked and they were forced to eat them.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. McConnel along iwth the other repukes are using this as an excuse for union busting!!!

$4 x 40hrs =$160.00/week

$160.00 x 52 = $8320.00 per year. That is a significant amount of money to give up!

Let's see the big bosses give up a comparable percentage of their salaries to help out the Auto industry!!!!

[still_one]

23. it is about time that Congress take a pay cut after how they ran this country

the last eight years

[electricD]

24. EVERY CARD CARRYING MEMBER KNOWS

Every union member knows that once you give something back, for emergencies, to "keep jobs", basically to lower your standards, so you can "compete" with the non-union. YOU NEVER FREAKING GET IT BACK!!!

HOW NUMBSKULLED CAN YOU BE?!?!?


Every time a union has given concession to an employer(s), they either never get back what they had to make/give them power or they've gotten screwed in the long run. Basically, because you NEVER EVER get it back.

The UAW has given concession to these people time and again over the years and they're consistantly getting screwed.

I live in Tennessee and I utterly can't stand Bob Corker. He has a construction company in eastern/middle Tennessee that has been known more than once to have gotten caught using illegal/cheap/slave labor. He's one of those type of people that thinks that he's the one that made his business, nevermind the people that work(ed) for him that made him his money. The WHOLE time he's thinking that he deserved every penny. Screw the field guy.

I'm sick and tired of hearing people say that union workers are what's breaking this country. All I see is people getting screwed out of what is justifiably theirs. People can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept of people actually getting a decent, living wage is not only good for that person but, in numbers is EXTREMELY good for the economy of our country.

To these people I say, PULL YOUR FREAKING HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS!!! WAKE UP and STOP believing that your boss knows what's best for you. Afterall, he's the one that's trying to get you to work for the lowest wage he can so that he can rake in all the profits.

[thoughtcrime1984]

33. Thanks for that, I am too pissed to eloquently state my position, so I will rant.

Union workers= regular people. Most of us are just regular people, certainly closer to poverty than to being a wealthy, arrogant asshole. We MUST have each others' backs in this matter. The workers are not to blame, the stuffed suits pinching every penny out of our asses are, the disgusting fucking Republican Party and the weakling Democrats that do not take a stand against this assault on the workforce are as well. Why must the workers work for the lowest possible wage? Where is the sacrifice from these goddamned, motherfucking millionaires/billionaires? Spare me, please. How will the economy ever bounce back if all workers can barely afford necessities?? The ruling class wants us poor and enslaved. If the UAW gives in to all of the pressure, they LOSE, we all LOSE! The failure that is the "Big 3" will fail or succeed not based on further worker concessions, but on their products, their vision. They being the wealthy "rulers". You know, the ones who get golden parachutes and always have another job lined up no matter what happens. The type that sees their workers with scorn and hatred, and thinks that the slaves are in their eternal debt. Those who say the workers will never get this money back once it is lost are 100%, fucking A right on the money. This failure by the Senate to pass the loan to the big 3 based on workers not caving in yet again is going to kill our nation. They want class warfare?? Do they really? All of these types that are so quick to dismiss the working class and the unions had better watch their ass. You can only push a man/woman so far. The tipping point is getting very near. Nobody will win, not even the rich, this time.

[LiberalFighter]

42. I'm a newly retired UAW autoworker.

I sure as hell ain't rich and I am probably at best middle-class at the bottom range IMO.

My home is appraised at less than $100k. I have had the same vehicle for 10 years. No boats, no motorcycles, or other recreational toys. No cell phone. No snow thrower. Don't buy jewelry for myself or anyone. Don't buy fancy clothes regularly. Generally don't even irregularly. Don't take cruises or other types of vacations.

Why? Because I don't think it is really in my budget for anything more than that.

[LiberalFighter]

39. Too bad all his employees don't quit so he would be forced to hire new workers.

[Historic NY]

25. What ever happened to free enterprise the repukes now want wage & price controls.

that esentially what they are asking why should american companies have to level the playing field with the foreign companies. How many of those plants won sweetheart deals and concessions to be built in southern states. Today its auto workers, tomorrow its nurses, cops, fireman, construction workers, etc.

[MilesColtrane]

27. I assume "parity pay" would include universal health care?

No? Of course not.

The Republicans and traitorous Democrats have essentially killed the American economy tonight.

The Big Fear takes hold tomorrow.

[TheKentuckian]

30. Saying why not give up 20-35% of what you're getting by on now?

At what point are you just preserving your job to avoid saying the phrase "do you want fries with that?", at what point have you given all there is to give just for the privilege of a master to report to?

Wait until the Toyota workers see $9-12.50, in fact minimum wage for almost anybody. Unless you're a rare/high demand and can't be outsourced then look to get eviscerated.

The voodoo economics posse is fucking slow up in here. Why do you buy that tired bullshit when it proves to sink us all over and over?

[dcindian]

31. Is congress taking a 35% cut in pay?

if not then we should make them.

[Blue_Tires]

32. and they make the Corvette in his state, too

also the National Corvette Museum is there, too...I think I know how the people in Bowling Green will vote come re-election time...

[DCBob]

34. Does not matter -- Bush said he will tap Wall Street bailout money

From CCN:

"However, the Big Three could still wind up getting government funding. Bush officials warned wavering GOP senators earlier Thursday that if they didn't support the legislation, the White House will likely be forced to tap funds from the Wall Street bailout to lend them money, two Republican congressional officials told CNN. The White House has been strongly opposed to using any of the $700 billion in bank bailout funds to help the auto industry, but the Bush administration has also expressed that the Big Three must get some financial assistance soon."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news/companies/auto_bai...
=========

I agree with this and suspect Bush has the blessing of Obama and most Democrats to move forward with this alternative plan. The could be one of the most significant positive things this President does as he leaves office... at long last.

[Jennicut]

41. How come Bush has been willing to play along with Dems finally at the end of his term?

Very odd that in both bailouts it was Obama and the Dems that he has worked with, not the idiots in his own party. Guess he is worried about the awful economy being one of his legacies.

[Mass]

35. The bill has failed because McConnell and DeMint and others are more worried about

cutting workers benefit, busting the unions and increasing profits for shareholders in the short term than they are about creating the companies of the next 50 years.

Every single country has helped their auto companies. The only country that refuses to do so is the US. That is as simple as that.

[olkaz]

36. Having a union job making four more dollars doesn't mean much if the job doesn't exist anymore.

Which is going to happen to some of these folks. I think they may have played their hand a bit too long this time.

[MaineDem]

40. This is an attempt at union busting, plain and simple

It's disgusting and the GOP Senators should be ashamed of themselves.

[FloridaGrl]

43. I totalling agree

I am happy they did not agree. What's the purpose of having a union if I am working for the same wages as a non union member? Why are they going after the workers?

[WeDidIt]

44. The bill failed because of union busting tactics of the Goopers.

They're out to kill all unions.

Plainm and simple.

Everybopdy that loses their job for the next two years, blame it on Senate Republicans.

Republicans are stealing jobs.

Fucking traitors!

[Billy Shears]

45. Mark Penn would be proud of you.

[Marrah_G]

46. Why should UAW have their wages dropped down?

Why are you not asking why the foreign car companies aren't required to improve THEIR wages?

Why are some so quick to agree to lower standards of wages and living rather then insisting on raising the lower portion UP?

[MarjorieG]

47. Within the similar hourly, UAW also bargains for health care, retirement.

With future concessions, already parity. Simply breaking unions and preferring foreign ownership in home states; Reich said 18 more factories are planned.

[Thrill]

49. Its all about Union Busting. No surprise here

[WinkyDink]

50. Unions should become like non-unions? Is that what some Democrats believe now?