Obama being President Elect has made me view the showing throwing incident differently

[wndycty]

George Bush is a miserable S.O.B. who has disgraced this country and deserves the scorn of the world, however he is the President of the United States and he was attacked on foreign soil.

Forget the who and the means of attack for a second. The President of the United States was attacked on foreign soil. Had the President of the United States been attacked by a shoe thrower in December of 2009 many on DU would be outraged, there would be calls for the Secret Service to re-evaluate its security procedures.

Don't get me wrong a got a big chuckle out of this and have forwarded the video on to friends, however I'm torn about this. Our hatred of Bush has gotten the best of us and I include myself in that.

I'm not trying pass judgment or lecture but today I realized its real that Barack Obama is going to be the President of the United States and when he is on foreign soil we will have an expectation that he will be protected.

[I Have A Dream]

1. Very true. You're a wise person to think beyond the current moment. nt

[143tbone]

2. Good point. n/t

[sandnsea]

3. The SS should re-evalute its security procedures

I can come to that conclusion while laughing my ass off at Bush ducking from flying shoes. I'm not very bright and I can hold those two thoughts in my head, all at the same time. I think most people can.

[bowens43]

4. He was not attacked.... that is complete bullshit

however had he been attacked by an Iraqi , it would certainly have been justified. The fact that he is president is completely irrelevant. The man is an ignorant, arrogant, war criminal who deserves nothing but scorn and jail time. If Obama ever becomes responsible for an illegal war, he to will deserve nothng but scorn.

[Seen the light]

5. Again, it's a f'ing shoe

Nothing to be concerned about.

Do you really want the SS to check your shoes from now on when you go to places where Obama is going to be? Come on now, some things are impossible to stop, defending Presidents from lethal, dangerous projectile shoes is one of those things.

[wndycty]

6. And how do you feel about someone throwing a shoe at President-Elect Obama?

:kick:

[Seen the light]

19. It might give him a boo-boo oh no!

It would be lame and the guy would be a piece of shit that would need to be arrested on assault charges, but this was not an assassination attempt. World-famous celebrities get pies in the face all the time, I think Bush will survive an aborted shoe throwing attack.

[elizm]

32. Obama is loved around the world...not hated. If the shoe fits.... nt

[Labors of Hercules]

44. THROW IT!!!

(sorry, had to do it) :rofl:

[windbreeze]

37. Actually...that's really NOT the point...

What IF it had been a grenade, what IF it had been a shoe bomb?...OK, it wasn't...no harm, no foul....but I agree with the OP...it is something to be concerned about...where was his SS entourage? Why did the guy even have time to launch the second shoe before they got to him...??? The SS are NEVER supposed to be caught off guard...NEVER...(don't get me wrong)..I laughed my ass off, and I did forward the video...and I do dislike * with a passion, and wished his reflexes weren't quite so good...but....but I wouldn't want to see this happen to a president I liked, so I guess it's wrong to be laughing over it happening to *...(let's face it, the guy just did what all of us might have wanted to do, if given the chance)...and I even understand why the guy threw the shoes, and why he felt he was justified....but....it still brings to mind a day in Dallas...1963, when the culprit was NOT throwing shoes...I know I wasn't laughing that day....wb

[hlthe2b]

7. Your premise is that Obama would receive similar treatment--

for no reason. To think that suggests Arabs and others he might visit are irrational or at least incredibly uncivil. It has never happened to any other American President. Why do you think our International Brethren would do so to Obama without the incredible litany of reasons and provocations Bush* has so proudly and completely provided?

You surely do understand the reasons behind this action on the part of this Iraqi...:shrug:

[wndycty]

9. The reasons are irrelevant

And you can't assume that Obama would be treated any differently. I do hope the Iraqi's would treat him differently but we don't know that for sure.

[hlthe2b]

20. The reasons are NOT irrelevent. The act was culturally

consistent with a major insult in Iraq. Bush* is NOT their pResident and as far as any of us know, there is no law in Iraq that rises to the same level as American law for simple assault against a foreign official. No doubt they will deal with this man harshly for political reasons alone, however.

Some here are judging the incident by what is law and expected of Americans with respect to an American President. SO, not equivalent.

[Occam Bandage]

22. That man is not an avatar of the Iraqi volksgeist.

He was a single actor. His opinions may be those of the Iraqi people at large, but all that would be needed for a repeat performance during the Obama presidency would be another single actor in the Iraqi press with strong opinions against Obama. It isn't inconceivable that one such person could exist.

[hlthe2b]

24. Of course...

And if Obama behaved in the same manner, with the same arrogant disregard for life and human rights across the world as Bush* I would be applauding this man's successor as well (for any symbolic acts such as this--not an escalation by any means)

And, yes, I consider this simple assault, not rising to the level of a felonious violent assault. If I were a judge in Iraq I would prosecute as a misdemeanor. Given what I believe to be the reasons behind this man's actions, I would give him a suspended sentence and send the man on his way.

[Occam Bandage]

11. I absolutely guarantee you that there will be many people

who will want to throw shoes at Obama by the end of his Presidency. He is President of the United States, and there will be times where the interests of the United States are counter to the interests of another country. Geopolitics needn't be the Bush-era clusterfuck, but it's never a friendly game of marbles, either.

[hlthe2b]

18. That has ALWAYS been the case... Yet this has not occurred

before.... I think there would be far more Americans (of the RW) who would consider doing so, rather than anyone overseas. I find there is an underlying current in some posts that is very uncomfortable to me-- as though even given the incredible injustices done and the war crimes Bush* et al have perpetuated against the Iraqi people, that somehow this act is a symbol of their relative "incivility" compared to us. I don't suggest that you Occam are thinking this, but it seems clear that some are.

[Occam Bandage]

21. No, nobody has thrown a shoe at a President before. Then again, one point is not a trendline.

I wouldn't extrapolate too much from one data point. Sure, it's entirely possible that this was an isolated incident, and that no American president will ever have a shoe thrown at them again. It's also possible that with societal changes in the greater Middle East, such acts of disrespect will become more common, and this was only the first of many such minor demonstrations.

Sure, Obama is very likely to be, on the whole, much more popular than Bush; he will be liked by far more, and liked much more strongly. However, there will surely also be a number of people abroad who will, for whatever reason, hate him even more than they currently hate Bush. All that need occur for this to be replicated is for one such person to have press credentials. It's hardly outside the realm of possibility.

[hlthe2b]

23. Yes.. impossible to predict a trend based on such an outlier

Bush* and his administration's actions are in a category all his own...

[jberryhill]

33. Well, it *was* just Bush... it's not as if a cardboard figure was molested /nt

[Occam Bandage]

8. Part of me agrees, but then again, what security procedure could stop

a journalist from suddenly standing and throwing his shoe? I can think of nothing short of gunmen willing to take down any journalist who makes a sudden move, or making all journalists come in stripped naked.

[Muttocracy]

14. throwing a camera or a microphone or a pen...

at a certain point things can't be 100% safe. Secret Service standing there with guns ready to fire wouldn't be safe either.

[Occam Bandage]

16. Right. Any "solution" would be worse than the risk.

SS agents ready to kill would obviously create a bevy of international incidents. Atrocious idea. Making journalists strip down would offend every country badly, while not removing the "someone might throw something" risk--unless you dictate that journalists may not take notes, which would be preposterously offensive. The risk of shoe-throwing is not one that can be effectively countered.

[JohnnyLib2]

10. Good point.

:kick:

[calmblueocean]

12. I felt exactly the same way. I hope Obama has better guard detail than GWB does!

You always hear these stories about Secret Service agents ready to "take a bullet" for the president... but here was this angry man, a man with a grudge against the president, and even after he throws the shoe at Bush -- and Bush dodges it -- why aren't the Secret Service agents yanking on Bush's arm and pulling him the hell out of there!? They actually give the guy a chance to throw a SECOND shoe! That's just unreal to me.

And -- in the moment -- how can they even tell WHAT is being thrown at the president? What if it's a grenade? What if it's a grenade INSIDE a shoe? Why aren't the Secret Service agents throwing themselves on top of the shoe?

I'm sorry, but the president's Secret Service detail needs to be demoted or even fired for today. They just sat around and watched it happen. That's not acceptable to me.

[Whalestoe]

29. I agree. It's pretty fucking pathetic.

Really good hands our President's life is going to be protected by.

[Uzybone]

13. Bush is a fool, but he could have been hit in the face

yes its just a shoe, not a grenade, not a WMD. But the fact he was brazenly attacked on foreign soil is a testament to hi legacy and what he has done to our image. I just hope President Obama and any future leaders don't suffer too much from the Bush legacy.

Its funny ha-ha for a moment. Then it's sobering.

[wndycty]

15. "Its funny ha-ha for a moment. Then it's sobering"

Thank you for saying that, I absolutely agree and I wish I said that in the OP.

[Skittles]

17. you're expecting Obama to be treated like bush?

:rofl:

[Clio the Leo]

25. He's already been treated worse.....

... does the phrase "Kill him!" ring a bell?

Granted, the Iraqi man has been through a lot .... but all it takes is someone with a strong opinion and a good aim.

80% of Americans approve of how Obama is doing so far.

I can guarantee you that at least one person doesn't .... and I'm fairly certain that person owns a pair of shoes.

(and a matching robe and hood but that's beside the point)

[uponit7771]

28. You read any Freeper post lately?

[Skittles]

30. read any DU posts about bush in the last eight years?

IT WAS A PAIR OF FUCKING SHOES - AFTER EIGHT FUCKING YEARS OF DESTRUCTION

[jberryhill]

34. The point is...

You can easily find threads at FreeRepublic where there are not-so-veiled statements encouraging violence against the President Elect.

[Clio the Leo]

26. Rec! My thoughts exactly! NT

[quaker bill]

27. Given what he has done to Iraq

This was a modest incident.

[stray cat]

31. I would not be happy if it happened to Obama overseas

and there will always be people who don't like policies.

[elleng]

35. I'm VERY concerned about his safety,

BOTH here and elsewhere.

[quakerboy]

36. He threw a shoe.

GWB as avatar of the US deserved to be shown the sole. I applaud the courage it would take to do such a thing.

When Obama is president, He will certaintly at some point in his 4-8 years have to deal with rowdy, disruptive, and even disrespectfull people. As long as the SS is there to prevent guns, knives, or beatings, I will take it in stride. For all the good he will do, we ain't gonna be a nation of saints even after 8 years of Obama. And some will feel the need to protest it in their own way.

In the end, it was not a dangerous thing. It was a respect and dignity thing. And I do not expect the SS to protect the dignity of the president, nor to enforce respect towards the president. They are federal employees charged with guarding the life of our president, not the Praetorian Guard of a tyrant.

[diane in sf]

38. I doubt Obama would give people cause to throw shoes at him.

[Laelth]

39. Bush was well-protected.

It was just a shoe. Do you want foreign journalists to have to strip down naked in order to attend a press conference? No hostile people in that room had any real weapons, I can assure you.

I think Obama could take a hit from a shoe, and if he deserved it, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. Bush deserves much worse.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[AzDar]

40. If Barack starts an illegal war, shreds our Constitution, and leaves our

country a smoldering wreck, he deserves a shoe too.

[riqster]

41. One key difference:

"...however he is the President of the United States.."

Bush is NOT the President of the United States, no matter how many times that title may be uttered. He gained the oval office by an unconstitutional process, was allowed to stay there by an apathetic populace, and gained 're-election' by a variety of illegal and unethical means.

Having traveled overseas, I can tell you that this is commonly understood by foreigners better than it is by Americans. People have been asking me, "why do you allow Bush to stay in that office?" or words to that effect, at least once per trip.

Since Bush is not regarded as a legitimate President, the shoe-throwing incident does not bode ill for PE Obama, who was legitimately elected by a clear majority of the American people.

[kayakjohnny]

48. Thanks. My sentiments also. Funny how he's not been legit all these years, and now that it's

convenient for an argument, wa-la!... he's legit. The guy never was a legitmate office holder. This country just went for 8 years with a fake at the helm. And it shows.

[WeDidIt]

42. Thank you! n/t

[alwysdrunk]

43. Thanks for having some sense

Unfortunately too many here have their fingers stuck in their ears singing "lalalala, not my president" and are trying to excuse this shit as okay or just laughing it off.

[Jennicut]

45. Bush deserved it. Obama so far has done nothing to

desecrate the office of the President although he has not taken office yet. Bush is not fir to be President, he should have been impeached but the Supreme Court made executive privilege legal and a way out for his and Cheney's crimes. If Obama or Biden were attacked and had done nothing to abuse their powers as Prez and Vp then I would say it was wrong.
The safety thing does not have me worried, it was shoe. It is a mild weapon at the very most. No one has died from being hit with a shoe, have they? Now maybe if it was heels...

[wndycty]

47. Deserving it has nothing to do with it. . .

. . .for the record I think its funny but I'm honest enough with myself to understand I wouldn't like this if it happened to Obama and I have to acknowledge some type of hypocrisy on my part.

[Jennicut]

49. The point is it would NOT happen to Obama. Did it happen to Clinton? Carter? Even Reagan or Bush 1?

No. Bush has gone above and beyond anything anyone dreamed of. He is the biggest abuser of the Presidential powers we have ever had. The point is, Obama most likely will have flowers thrown at him, not dirty stinky shoes.

[wndycty]

50. I agree that it probably wouldn't happen to Obama but that doesn't make it right.

:kick:

[trayfoot]

46. Excellent points!

[DevonRex]

51. The 2 things aren't mutually exclusive. I laughed, too. And I worry

a bit, too.

You have described very well how most of us feel about it. It was funny as hell. I watched it over and over, laughing every time. BUT I'd hate it if that happened to President Obama. I'm also VERY sure that the Secret Service is reviewing the situation, playing the tape over and over, to determine how to prevent such things from happening in the future.

[AlphaCentauri]

52. will Obama be responsible for more than 4000 US soldiers lives?

I've bet defending the current policies will not bring no body back from the grave

[AspenRose]

53. I agree with you.

[TwilightGardener]

54. I didn't really think it was funny. I thought it was sad, embarrassing, and

disturbing--that our President was attacked and humiliated, that he wasn't better protected, that the Iraqis hate him (and possibly all of the US, by extension) that much--can't really blame them, but it was a shame to see that sort of rage and contempt after 6 years, after all the bloodshed by both Iraqis and Americans...