Obama's Education Pick Set To Drop Tomorrow: Arne Duncan

[babylonsister]

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/12/obamas_ed_pick_set_to_drop_tom.php

Obama's Ed Pick Set To Drop Tomorrow: Arne Duncan

15 Dec 2008 05:52 pm

Tomorrow, at a school in the Chicago area, President-Elect Barack Obama will announce his choice to lead the Department of Education, and education insiders, citing the Obama transition team, say it's Arne Duncan, the CEO of schools there.

A senior transition official confirms that Obama plans to nominate Duncan.

Developing......

Duncan has run Chicago schools for seven years and has become friendly with Obama. A 6 foot 5 inch tall Harvard grad and former Australian professional basketball player, he's managed the political hat trick of winning praise from the education reform community, the unions, and is well-liked by parents, too.

He's worked in the trenches as No Child Left Behind became law, and has had some success in closing failed schools and improving student performance. Last week, outgoing Education Secretary Margaret Spellings met with Duncan and gave him her blessing.

Critics say he's a "corporate" type who favors metrics over actual knowledge about how children learn, but the American Federation of Teachers praises his management style. He's beloved by charter schools advocates.

Like Obama, Duncan favors merit pay for teachers and administrators, but he's been cautious about pushing the concept too far without input from teachers' unions.

[Thrill]

1. Most thought he would go with his buddy Arne Duncan here

[firedupdem]

2. My mother taught in the chicago public schools for 38 years...

if this guys is good with the union people (who don't play!) then he's gotta be a good guy.

Here's more:



Arne Duncan graduated magna cum laude from Harvard University in 1987, majoring in sociology. He was co-captain of Harvard’s basketball team and was named a first team Academic All-American. From 1987-1991, Mr. Duncan played professional basketball in Australia, where he also worked with children who were wards of the state.

Duncan returned to Chicago in 1992 to direct the Ariel Education Initiative, which seeks to create outstanding educational opportunities for inner-city children on the City’s South Side. In 1998, he joined the Chicago Public Schools.

In June, 2001, Mayor Richard M. Daley named Duncan Chief Executive Officer of the Chicago Public Schools.

Duncan currently serves on the Boards of the Ariel Education Initiative, Chicago Cares, The Children’s Center, the Golden Apple Foundation, the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, Jobs for America’s Graduates, Junior Achievement, the National Association of Basketball Coaches’ Foundation, Renaissance Schools Fund, Scholarship Chicago and the South Side YMCA.

He also serves on the Board of Overseers for Harvard College and the Visiting Committees for Harvard University’s Graduate School of Education and the University of Chicago’s School of Social Service Administration. He was a fellow in the Leadership Greater Chicago’s class of 1995, and a member of the Aspen Institute’s Henry Crown Fellowship Program, Class of 2002. He has received honorary degrees from the Illinois Institute of Technology, Lake Forest College and National Louis University.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. I am glad to see AFT approval

since I am an AFT member. :)

[firedupdem]

8. I was glad to see that too...

I grew up with my mom being on strike it seems like the beginning of every school year! I know the AFT doesn't just give their blessings to anybody!

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. The merit pay crap really turns me off though

[firedupdem]

70. I'm not sure how merit pay is determined? Who determines

the criteria? Whe ensures it's fair? I don't know the answers to that one..

[goclark]

80. Hope he puts the focus back on Public Schools and not Charters

Charters = No Union and Bushco's friends get rich.

It's been their "business" for at least 8 years.

Let's get back to Public Schools and make them outstanding.
That should be his full time job!

This is my passion...
This post is important.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4555435&mesg_id=4555435

[blueclown]

3. "He's beloved by charter schools advocates. "

So he's beloved by Repukes?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

34. Do you even know what a charter school is?

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. We have lots of them here

And they are popular with Republicans.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

40. And they should be popular with Democrats too.

But you still didn't answer the question. Having lots of them doesn't mean you know what they are.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. Is this a test?

I am a teacher. Trust me, I know what a charter school is. :eyes:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. Well, I'm not teaching to it, so it must not be a test.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

But your comments sound more like you're approaching it from the typical asinine argument against charters - that they are a step towards vouchers, which they clearly are not.

So why in the world are charter schools allegedly a bad thing? Any port in a storm, no?

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. 1. They take money away from public schools

2. They operate under different rules which they can create themselves while public schools (which are now forced to compete for dwindling funding) have to follow strict rules.

3. Charters can be selective about which kids they admit, which kids they keep and which kids they kick out. Public schools cannot.

4. Charters do not have to spend money on programs for kids who have disabilities, or kids who don't speak English.

5. We are creating a two tiered system, where some kids can go to charter schools (on the public dime) and many cannot.

6. Charter schools are non union and can impose unfair working conditions on teachers.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

62. 1) They ARE public schools.

2) The whole point of an alternative public school would be moot if everything were the same. Furthermore, they have all of the same accountability requirements that traditional schools have, and thensome, as they can lose their charter for pretty much any reason.

3) Yes, but the vast majority of them select at-risk populations. So your point is...?

4) Yes, they do. That's just flatly wrong.

5) Any kid can go to a charter that's in their jurisdiction if they meet the criterion. And again, they're all public schools.

6) Charter schools are NOT non-union. Some are, some aren't, but it's flatly incorrect to say that they're all non-union.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. 1. Then they should have to follow the same rules as traditional public schools

2. They are NOT alternative schools. What a way to twist this issue. Is that the new charter school talking point? :rofl:

(On second thought, I guess they could be considered alternative schools for kids whose parents want them in class with only 'certain' types of kids.

3. No they do not select at-risk kids. They REFUSE them. I teach special ed in a traditional public school. I am called by charter schools looking for references for kids who have applied for admission. As soon as they hear I am a special ed teacher, they can't hang up quickly enough. Now I could start with the repulsive idea that a CHILD needs a REFERENCE to get into a school funded by tax dollars and go off on that for a couple hundred pages but hopefully most here will get the point.

4. No it is not wrong. As I said, I teach special ed. And no, charters do not have to admit kids with special needs or meet those needs if they are admitted. In my state, they are only required to have a person certified in special ed on site. (That can be the principal.) No regulation requires actually creating a program for these kids.

5. "if they meet the criterion" And that criterion can be whatever the board of the charter school requires.

6. Yes they are non union here.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

71. You are applying your myopic experience to every charter that exists.

As with any such model, mileage varies considerably. I'm sorry, but you're totally wrong in doing so.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Okay it's time I asked if you are an educator

If not, how dare you call my experience "myopic".

I am in a district that has had a dozen or more charter schools for over 10 years now. I have many co-workers and former students working at charter schools and enrolled in them. I know literally hundreds of families who have chosen charters. THIS IS MY BUSINESS.

Unless you have the knowledge and experience I do, you have no right to call me "myopic" or claim I am lying.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

86. Definition

Myopic
1 : a condition in which the visual images come to a focus in front of the retina of the eye resulting especially in defective vision of distant objects
2 : a lack of foresight or discernment : a narrow view of something

I did not claim that you were lying, but only that you are extrapolating views from your own limited experiences. And yes, they are limited unless you've taught in every state in which there is a charter school.

[MadHound]

97. Gee, and what's your experience bub? Other than blithely bullshitting on an anonymous chat board.

I'm in the education field also, and have actually studied charter schools pretty thoroughly as part of getting my degree, and pretty much everything that P2L says is correct. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but by and large charter schools are not a good thing in most educator's opinion.

[tigereye]

124. I would say that someone who is a teacher has a pretty good perspective

:shrug:

[Sorceress]

101. Yep, now you sound like someone who is informed.

I can't tell you how many times "undesirable" kids are sent back to the public schools right after the government funding cut off date at the beginning of the year. That way, the charter schools are able to keep the money for that student during the year. Meanwhile, the public schools get stuck with the task of actually educating the child and they must do so without the proper funds.

Charter schools don't have to do sh!t. I don't know who is perpetuating the falsehood that they do. You should see the state those kids are in when their parents finally realize they haven't learned a damn thing in the two/three years they have been in the charter school and then bring them back to public. Hell. The kids have been coloring for two years straight and then the public school is expected to perform miracles by test time? Please. Furthermore, no, they don't have to accept "special needs" students and often don't. They can put kids out for whatever reason and often do. They are non-union where I am as well. Not saying they all suck, just overall, not a good idea.

Hate the whole merit pay system. In an atmosphere that is polarized such as the D.C. Public School system, it is a colossal mistake. If you are West of the park, then it is potentially great because those kids are probably living with heat, air-conditioning, and FOOD.(Though, even then, I wouldn't call it a sure thing.) These kids have educated parents and access to educational sources. So, yeah, your chances of seeing improvement are greater than someone who is teaching in the less advantaged sections of the city. In other areas, the kids are dealing with no heat or air-conditioning in their homes. They are dealing with their meals only being what they receive at school. There is no food at home. They don't have computers. Their parents aren't always educated. Furthermore, did you know that still a good many of the public schools in D.C. do not have air-conditioning? Therefore, when testing time comes, the kids are sitting in a hot room, sweating? In the beginning of the year, practically a whole month of educational instruction can be lost depending on how fierce September is. Did you know? And you want to compare the progress of THESE students to those West of the Park who are chillin' in nice, cool and cozy classrooms? NO. Not gonna happen.

I will say this, however. At least Obama didn't select Rhee. I'll give this dude a chance but a Rhee selection would have made me contemplate jumping ship. That is how strongly I feel.

[SoxFan]

84. Educrat Alert! Educrat Alert!

Raise the NEA talking points shield, Number One!

[MadHound]

98. Oh great, another one who thinks that they're an expert from behind their computer

Gee, have you ever taught in a classroom? Have you had any education classes?

Sorry that you have a problem with people who have experience in the field, but normally such experience is considered a good thing.

You on the other hand want to mock such knowledge and experience. Says a lot about how much your input should be valued, which is much at all.

So you don't like the NEA eh? What do you have against unions? Better yet, what do you have against teachers?

[SoxFan]

109. More experience than you realize

I've written education legislation, debated ed policy on the floor of the legislature, had many discussions with policy analysts, and serve on a joint municipal-school committee panel.

I have nothing against unions. My wife is a member of the SEIU, my father in law belonged to APWU, and my grandfather was a Teamster.

I don't like obstructionists who put their own crimped agenda ahead of the interests of kids.

[MadHound]

112. In other words you don't have any actual teaching experience,

Just experience in fucking around with education legislation that may or may not have helped out teachers and students.

And it is the basis of this non-educating experience that you feel qualified to call people names and critique unions. What the fuck ever, to me you're another idiot with an agenda who's trying to muck around in my career, muck around with my students, thinking that you're somehow better than I am because you're full of hot air. Until you get your ass through an education program and into the classroom frankly you have no concept of what works and doesn't work in education and in my opinion you have no right to be mucking around in my job.

Tell you what, let's apply the current education model to all professions, where we let the taxpayers decide how much a profession gets paid, what sort of working conditions they have, oh, and every Tom Dick and Harry thinks that they know more than you do and are free to either criticize or better yet, fuck you and your career over at their whim. Can we do that with your job?

I don't know what you have against the NEA, but you sound like every other union hating, education hating bureaucrat who has been thwarted in their quest to ravage the education system by the NEA. Frankly the NEA and AFT care more about teachers, students and education than your average citizen, and a hell of a lot more about the field than mindless bureaucrats and political wonks who simply want to step all over education to advance their own career.

So really now, what it boils down to is that you have no education experience, just policy wonk experience. OK, now I see where your viewpoint comes from. It isn't a valid one grounded in reality, but I see where it comes from.

[SoxFan]

116. So, only teachers can have an opinion on ed policy?

Have you completed law school and been admitted to the bar?

If not, then you need to shut up when the discussion turns to civil liberties and SCOTUS appointments.

Do you have any experience in the military?

If not, then you have no right commenting on the war in Iraq.

Do you have any foreign policy experience?

If not, then you have no business commenting on Israeli-Palestinian relations.

Have you ever been involved in the health care system?

If not, then you have no business talking about healt care reform.

Are you an environmental biologist?

I guess talking about climate change is out of the question.

It looks like you spent so much time around children that you have a hard time treating anyone with an opposing viewpoint like an adult.

[MadHound]

117. A few differences

First off, while I may offer my opinion on the subjects that you list, I would never presume to interfere in the manner that teachers are interfered with by non-educators. While I will give my opinion on foreign policy, I would never presume to actually conduct negotiations. Yet random people feel free to interfere in education policy and process all the time. Again, how would you feel if the general public felt free to tell you how much you get paid for your job, how you are supposed to do your job, and under what conditions you are supposed to perform your job?

Secondly, while the issues mention generally take place in a very public arena, and people have ready access to materials and books to educate themselves on the issues, education takes place in a classroom, with limited public access, and with little public knowledge of how education takes place. For example, while I can rattle off chapter and verse on the Kyoto Protocol, I seriously doubt that you can name the educational theorist who came up with the concept of scaffolding. Nor do I believe that you can whip out a Madeline Hunter style lesson plan, or god forbid a Basal Conversion unit.

And guess what, neither can most of the public. Yet without even a hint of a view of what goes on under the hood in education, complete novices feel that they not only can meddle in education, but better yet, they have the right to meddle in education. So again, I have to ask, what sort of hands on education experience, other than being a student, do you have? Yeah, that's about what I thought. Yet you think that you're fit to dictate education policy. Please tell me that you've at least stepped foot in a classroom in preparation for writing this policy.

And yes, frankly I think that educators should be intimately involved in setting education policy. After all, Congress wouldn't dare think of reworking health policy without consulting physicians. City councils don't take a step concerning police policy without consulting the police chief. Yet regularly we see that governmental bodies, from local to federal, write, enact and make law concerning education without actually consulting somebody who has been in the trenches of the education field. What's wrong with that picture?

Oh, and just one last parting thought. The Iraq War, while indeed carried out by the military, actually falls under foreign policy. But hey, what do I know, I only took a few foreign policy classes in college:eyes:

[tigereye]

127. bravo! Well-said!

:thumbsup: It amazes me how people with no educational background or teaching experience in general think that they know how to run public or other schools!

[SoxFan]

129. Hmmm

It amazes me how people with no jurisprudential education or legal experience in general think that they know who should and should not serve on the Supreme Court!

[tigereye]

130. yeah, but they don't want to redefine legal principles and process for them

that's where your comparison fails.

[tigereye]

125. I don't think union members put their "agenda" ahead of kids

Unions protect workers. They exist for a reason. Most of my friends who are public school teachers want desperately just to teach, and it is as if they are not allowed to, due to the politicking, the blame, the testing pressures and the bureaucracy, internal and external. Most of em love the kids, work incredibly hard and use their own money to buy things for them that the school can't afford.


Quite blaming the teachers. It's embarrassing and unfair. What upsets me is school districts always bringing in "experts," business types who have never taught a day in their lives.

[goclark]

81. I know exactly what they are ~

See my post below...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

87. You obviously don't

Because charter schools often have unions too.

[goclark]

94. I am well aware of that but the rules are different

I was a consultant for many years and worked closely with both.

[SoxFan]

83. You don't know what you are talking about

Do you know who authored the first charter school law in the country?

Well, of course not, so let me tell you.

It was State Sen. Ember Reichgott Jung, a Democrat from Minnesota.

One of the most successful charter school systems was implemented by a Democrat, Indianapolis mayor Bart Peterson.

But if you want to blindly drink the NEA kool-aid, go ahead.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. What is this dumb obsession with merit pay?

IT WON'T WORK IN EDUCATION.

I have posted these questions many times here and on many other blogs as well. I also sent them to Obama. I have yet to receive an answer to any of them. But here we go again:

1. How does an Art teacher benefit from a merit pay system? A Music teacher? The school counselor? The nurse?

2. How will Special Ed and ESL teachers earn merit raises?

3. How do you keep from creating a merit pay system where teachers in suburban largely non-minority schools with kids from middle and high socioeconomic backgrounds earn larger merit pay raises than teachers from urban largely minority schools serving kids from poor socioeconomic backgrounds?

4. What is so unfair about the current system where teachers do not compete against each other for raises?

[Fire1]

19. Outstanding questions, TO WHICH, you will not receive any

LEGITIMATE answers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Well thanks for at least reading them.

LOL

[Danger Mouse]

35. Merit pay system is a terrible idea.

As a worker in special ed, I can't see how you can implement it among special ed teachers.

[AllentownJake]

42. As the brother of someone who was a special education student

I don't see how you can do it either. Your student population varies too much each year and like I said below each student has their own victories depending on their disability.

[AllentownJake]

41. I don't know

Like any other idea the pros and cons should be made. I believe there should be a system where teachers are evaluated on the quality of education they are providing students and that good teachers should be rewarded. However, how you determine what a good teacher is, is up for debate. Systems totally based on standardized test are woefully awful because you have teachers that teach students how to take test and not how to learn an interpret information.

That being said I don't know how you translate that to special education being the brother of a mentally disabled person where small gains like teaching someone to communicate basic needs and basic self care are gigantic strides and a teachers pay will increase and decrease depending on the special students he/she gets each year more so than in a regular classroom.

On the music, art, school counselor etc...its pretty easy to evaluate based on the program of the school...of course that takes into account funding, however our inner city schools in Allentown and Bethelem has better marching, jazz, and concert bands than the rich suburban school I went to 15 years ago and that's because they have the same asshole as a director I had who does nothing to inspire anyone and actually causes people to quit playing instruments because he's such a fucktard.

So to be honest I don't know. How do they do it in Europe? What are the best practices in the rest of the world :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. Teachers don't compete for pay

That is the practice in some other countries, as it is here. It's the only thing that makes sense. We aren't sales people, we are working with kids. There is no merit pay in many other professions. Why is it the answer for education?

[AllentownJake]

69. That didn't answer the questions I posed

it laid out an unwielding principle. If your not going to discuss the issue or the underlying issues why people want merit pay (bad teachers) prepare for merit pay.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. So many false talking points

I have been declaring solidarity with auto workers since I understand how it is when your profession is attacked with false talking points designed to make you look incompetent as a worker.

And since everyone has a story about that one teacher they HATED (while so few ever tell us about the wonderful teachers they had) we now have this idea that bad teachers are infecting every school in the country.

Not true.

I can think of TWO who I worked with who were incompetent and needed to find another line of work. TWO out of literally hundreds of wonderful dedicated professionals who worked for far less than they are worth.

I can tell you about more incompetent doctors and lawyers I have personally encountered than teachers. And I have worked in education for 3 decades.

So let's start our discussions by telling the truth. And that is that teachers should be paid for their experience and training rather than being forced to compete for their pay. Teaching kids is not a contest. They all learn at different rates and under different circumstances. Every wonderful teacher you ever had also had students who were not successful. The rubber stamp approach doesn't work in education. And it never will.

[AllentownJake]

79. I can think of 25%

of the ones I had in High School and I got the good ones because I was in the gifted/AP classes in the 3rd richest school district in the state at the time.

The crappy band director who took a band of 150 members and turned into 80 in 8 years had a masters degree and was always going to training. BTW in terms of talent he had the kids who could afford to pay for private lessons with the best teachers yet the bands in Allentown, Bethlehem, and Easton public schools were always better.

Than there was my English teacher my senior year who was always taking a little nip or two and barely could control a class she also had a masters degree but she was 4 years from retirement so what could anyone do.

Now there was this younger political science teacher who was actually awesome and he was just working on his master's degree and brought home 3 debate championships while I was in school so I'm guessing he got the bottom of the barrel pay wise but I guess the other people earned it because they put their time in.

I have to keep working hard my entire life...I don't care if your in a union or a teacher...alot of them got their masters degrees and phoned it and that is from a consumer of the system.

To be fair the biology teacher with a PHD in Education was the best in the school however it wasn't long till he was in the administration and my guess his primary motivation for that was probably pay increase.

I'm saying that there should be metrics other than standardized tests however, some of the worst teachers I had, had a masters degree in education.

[mwei924]

126. Most of my good teachers in HS didn't have masters.. but they had undergrad degrees

in their respective fields. Actually, most of them left to get masters and PhDs, and then prompty moved on to other fields (like business, universities, etc). I only left High School like 4 years ago, but most of my favorite teachers are no longer there..

One of my favorite teachers that stayed also became Assistant Vice Principle shortly after. And she was pretty young, like 33 or something when she got that.

Some of my AP teachers were even total crap. And I lived in a good school district.

[Sorceress]

102. Exactly. This corporate "CEO" view of education is disturbing. These children are not...

some faceless, lifeless product. They aren't ipods, darnit. They are human beings.

[harun]

46. We have all had shitty teachers and we want them punished.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. And we have all met obnoxious posters on line and want them punished

[harun]

78. Posting online isn't my job, teaching was their's.

[alwysdrunk]

60. What's unfair? No competition means bad performance.

It's unfair to the students.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. How does the Art teacher compete? The nurse?

Or how about the special ed and ESL teachers whose students are not able to compete with kids who speak English and are not disabled?

[Hippo_Tron]

128. Evalute them on a different scale perhaps?

I can't imagine that an ESL teacher would be expected to have students perform as well in English and a non-ESL teacher. There doesn't have to be one metric.

[Fire1]

111. Not so. Children are not commodities.

They have different styles of learning, they learn at different rates and levels. All of which has to be addressed by either one sole teacher or several. I would not put myself or any students under that kind of pressure, so I could get a raise. Education should be about 'quality' not quantity.

[electron_blue]

90. Add another item - merit pay is almost never given out fairly.

There will always be people who get merit pay who actually did a poor job, and outstanding teachers who don't get it. Merit pay is lousy for morale.

[Uzybone]

5. If the AFT and NEA likes him, he is good.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. I posted this earlier today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4657448&mesg_id=4657448

[Thrill]

9. Check out this video of him. He is impressive

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x250459

[firedupdem]

13. Thanks Brent! He sounds like a smart guy who has some common

sense as well. I'm impressed.

[Cha]

29. It's better for the kids and the

whole community to have the parents enriching their children's education at home and taking an active part in their school.

I saw that first hand when I was in Portland, Ore over Thanksgiving and beyond.

Thanks, Brent.

Arne has an interesting history and an Aussie wife, Karen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_Duncan

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. That's just one issue

Any education major in college could make those same talking points.

Sorry, but as an educator, I don't mind saying that other than being a huge improvement over the current president, I am still not impressed with Obama on education.

To be fair, it is a very complicated issue and in the nearly 30 years I have been teaching, I have heard lots of good and some clever ideas but have yet to see the positive results promised.

On a positive note, I do believe our kids will be in much better hands under an Obama administration than they have been for the last 8 years.

We'll see. :)

[gblady]

21. thanks....

for the video.....I like what he was saying...
the schools could be used as great community resourses, like he stated.

[Ian David]

10. I was hoping Obama would appoint Robert Wuhl

http://bp2.blogger.com/_3TkcLK-uSTQ/R-LL5gDE3QI/AAAAAAAAASA/Y6R-hi6560U/s400/Robert+Wuhl.jpg

[GoesTo11]

12. Bad news

My kids already waste a lot of their time in school because they keep teaching to the test. Just great.


Plus I hate all this fuss over the guy's height. Ok, he's tall. Obama's tall. From what I've seen, he reminds me of some really tall corporate types who got ahead by being tall and are dumber than their position should indicate.

[babylonsister]

15. Yes, I'm sure he'll be chosen for his height and ability to play basketball. nt

[GoesTo11]

24. He was Obama's old basketball buddy.

I've had a boss who liked to put basketball buddies in high places (no pun intended) - thought it reflected character. Maybe so, but a lot of short folks just didn't have the opportunity to demonstrate that character. When Michelle's brother had to check out Barack, he played basketball with him to judge his character. I'll be annoyed if this becomes a trend.

[babylonsister]

25. So you honestly think Obama would pick this guy because he wants

someone to play ball with?

I have more faith in PE Obama than that.

[GoesTo11]

30. Well, he didn't appoint Robert Reich.

Just sayin'

No, I don't think it's a conscious factor. Unconscious? Don't know, maybe, maybe not.

[babylonsister]

31. Hahaha! I'm sure there were reasons for that, too, other than his height. nt

[FrenchieCat]

32. But he has appointed short folks.

I saw a really, really tiny one today.....

Look all the way to the left--

[Alter Ego]

51. Susan Rice is tiny--when she spoke that day Obama named her UN Ambassador,

I thought they were gonna have to get her a couple of phone books.

[FrenchieCat]

17. I'm not sure where you are getting what you are getting, but.....

it only simply states...."He's worked in the trenches as No Child Left Behind became law".

It doesn't say that he supported it, only that he was on the ground when it became law...meaning he saw what the law did first hand.

What are you seeing that makes you negative? :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Merit pay

:puke:

[mwei924]

26. Obama also supports merit pay though.

His Education pick would likely reflect that.

[GoesTo11]

27. "Favors metrics"

Standard corporate view. I'm hopeful that he won't view it as a means to hurt the poor and middle class, but even so, the push to measure everything is out of control. Kids spend 2 weeks a year taking the tests, 4 weeks a year preparing for them. It adds up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. We test 12 weeks a year in my school district

[FrenchieCat]

28. The merit pay that Obama supports isn't the standard

sloganish one I suspect you are disgusted with......

Saying "Merit pay" seems simplistic on your part.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I've read his proposal

It's merit pay. I posted my concerns in detail upthread. I am not being simplistic.

[ananda]

14. Color me skeptical.

CEO

CEO?

CEO??????????????????

[ecstatic]

16. Great, but I don't expect the media to cover it much

They're so focused on Obama's nonexistent ties to Blago. :puke:

[countingbluecars]

23. Please let him listen to

education experts and base policy on how children think and learn.

[babylonsister]

33. More on Duncan...

snip//

Duncan has run the country's third-biggest school district for the past seven years. He has focused on improving struggling schools, closing those that fail. Obama highlighted this work by choosing for the announcement a turnaround story for Duncan _ Dodge Renaissance Academy, a school Duncan closed and then reopened.

snip//

Duncan ran an education nonprofit on Chicago's South Side before working in Chicago Public Schools under former chief Paul Vallas, now the schools chief in New Orleans.

snip//

"Arne Duncan actually reaches out and tries to do things in a collaborative way," Randi Weingarten, head of the 1.4 million-member American Federation of Teachers, told The Associated Press earlier this month.

more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/15/arne-duncan-to-be-named-o_n_151251.html

[MadHound]

39. Not impressed with this guy, I was hoping that Obama would appoint Darling-Hammond

She's actually done research into what works, and is much more of a pro-teacher, pro student type of person. Oh, and the unions, while giving polite applause to Duncan, actually love Linda Darling-Hammond.

Instead we're getting a guy who's much more test oriented, wants charter schools, merit pay, worked for NCLB, has the blessing of the Bushco Sec of Ed., oh and is Obama's b-ball buddy. This does not bode well for the future of our education system. No does this give me any more confidence in an Obama administration, in fact significantly less, seeing as it is my career this guy is going to be influencing for at least the next four years.

Why does this sound like more of the same old attitude towards teachers and education, do more with less or else. What, does this country want an entirely privatized school system, because that's the path we're on now, and it looks like we're going to continue down it in an Obama administration.

Our nation's children are our most valuable resource, it's past time for somebody to start acting like it.

[Jakes Progress]

43. I'm afraid you are right.

We won't be improving education in America any time soon. Just gonna keep on doing what we've kept on doing.

[Thrill]

47. LOL The people on this board are hilarious

[Jakes Progress]

92. Your cryptic reply seems

to be meant to show your wit and flair. But of course, it avoids saying anything substantive.

If you disagree with the premise that the choice for Ed Sec is an indication that we won't be making any improvements in education, perhaps you would be able to discuss that disagreement. Other than a knee-jerk defense of anything Obama (whom I supported, campaigned for, and voted for) does, do you have some information about the nominee that would show that his fascination with tests, charter schools, and nclb will produce anything different than exactly what we have now? In just what ways, other than his choice of basketball buddies, does he represent a change or improvement?

If you can't add to the discussion, just keep piling up the replies with vacant attacks. Not everyone can be productive.

[Thrill]

93. You don't even know the education policy yet

and you're already claiming "We won't be improving education in America any time soon". How the hell do you know? Obama hasn't even set the policy yet. You don't know how much he is going to invest in Education. Funding is one of the biggest issues. Obama is also a big advocate of early education. That alone with the proper funding will be a huge improvement. So for you to make such a ridiculous blanket statement is hilarious.

[MadHound]

95. Well, considering that this man helped Obama shape his educatioin policy

And that he is quite close to Obama, and that generally in positions like education, the president tends to follow the secretary's lead unless there is some major difference, then I think that we can safely say we have a good indication of what Obama's education policy is going to look like. Institution of merit pay, a "reformed" NCLB, possibly with new and improved tests, an ongoing drift towards charter schools and other public/private hybrids. None of this is viewed favorably by many teachers.

[Thrill]

113. Linda Darling-Hammond helped write Obama's Education plan

[MadHound]

115. And your point is?

Yes, she helped write it, but did she have any input in it? It's a fact that Duncan had a large hand in shaping Obama's policy and advising Obama on education matters. Given this, and the fact that he's now going to be Ed Secretary, I would say that his influence on Obama's education is much greater than Darling-Hammond's, which is really a shame.

[Thrill]

118. There is no evidence to suggest she didn't have any input

Considering she has been advising Obama throughout the Campaign. And is running his Education Transition. She's likely to be a part of this administration in one way or the other. But again, your blanket statement was ridiculous, considering the Policy of Obama's administration hasn't been set yet. And the person you claim to have wanted to be the Education Secretary is likely to be apart of the makeup of the policy.

[Jakes Progress]

96. You don't even know Duncan's ed policy.

But I do. Choosing Duncan for the post is the first evidence of how the rhetoric will meet the road. Funding more tests won't make a difference. Early education for the tests won't make a difference.

The rhetoric is nice. But just funding and just early education won't make a difference. The evidence so far is that the emphasis will be on more tests (hence the "accountability" rhetoric. I would rather see someone like Darling-Hammond, who has demonstrated that just using the word "standards" isn't going to get it done. She has backed performance and delivery standards. That is entirely different from simply giving standardized tests and then shutting schools because it looks tough.

Now you can argue that charter schools and test will save the nation's schools, but I will disagree. Are you in education? Are you familiar with NCLB and it's implications for dividing our society? Or were you just upset that I failed to cheerlead. I supported, campaigned for, and voted for Obama. There are several things I think he will improve, but I don't see by this nomination that education will be one. We have a lot on our plates now just trying to fix our economy, our standing in the world, our health system. I can live with the fact that education will get mostly mouth service for a few years, and I don't think it will get worse with Duncan. I just don't think there is any historical evidence that he will make the changes that are needed. Hope I'm wrong. That would be lovely, but I base my opinion on what Duncan's stated goals and accomplishments are.

That's not hilarious. Having no basis other than a cheerleader's uniform to call my informed opinion ridiculous - Now that's hilarious.

[Thrill]

114. Linda Darling-Hammond helped write Obama's Education plan

And Obama is the one who sets the policy. How about you wait and see what the Education Policy is.

[Jakes Progress]

119. Then why didn't he name her?

Writing policy and administering it are two things. As I said, I will be really happy if Duncan changes course and goes to school on the subject. Right now, he is just doing the same old, same old.

[makinguphumans]

53. I think Darling-Hammond would have been a wiser pick.

[mwei924]

120. A Hammond appointment would give Obama more headaches..

..Arne Duncan is someone both sides have things in common with and can get behind.

Hammond is very very unpopular with certain people. And her Teach for America criticism isn't popular either. She was brought on by Obama team in the GE, but his views on education aren't precisely in line with hers. Judging on the primary season, Obama might actually have more in common with Duncan.

[MadHound]

121. Yet Hammond has much better relations with the unions

And her background in education is much stronger than Duncan's. Furthermore, the corporate CEO model that Duncan favors, along with his push for public/private hybrid schools and charter schools really doesn't sit well with a lot of educators, myself included. And let's not even go down the merit pay path, lots of teachers aren't in favor of that.

Each pick has their problems, each pick is going to piss people off. In my opinion Hammond would be a much stronger choice, if for no other reason than her background and philosophy.

Besides, in this "rivals" cabinet, why is it all the sudden imperative that we have an Education Secretary that sees eye to eye with Obama? I guess this whole bit about getting the best and brightest only goes so far:shrug:

[mwei924]

122. He probably doesn't want to pick anyone who is firmly on one side of the issue.

Duncan, from most accounts, had been quite successful in Chicago. And his views on some things will be accepted by the reformer side while still retaining most of the support from the teachers unions. Also, I think the general public might be more at ease with a pick who isn't entirely in the pocket of the unions but isn't opposed by them either. It's a win-win for Obama on that and because they seem to have a good relationship.

What I gather (this is just my view) is that Obama brought on Hammond in the general to placate the teacher's union, which did not support him in the primaries and he had a few disagreements with. He maybe feels like it would be harder for him to work with her than Duncan.

[harun]

45. What about Dean? Is he going to get shafted?

[Sorceress]

103. Yeah, where is Deanie anyway? He has a lot to contribute.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. Merit pay for

politicians, for those who sit on boards and gather pay for nothing, close up inspection of the merit and raises of all who work in so called 'non profit' feilds while pulling down huge personal profit. Merit only. For everyone or for no one.
Merit pay for Congress. For the cabinet. Metrics for the Beltway.

[Alter Ego]

50. Well, he wouldn't have been my pick, but he's a damn sight better

than what we had...and if he can somehow be a friend to reformers and traditionalists alike, he has that rare ability to broker compromises.

[makinguphumans]

52. So we have a high stackes number pushing NCLB Secretary. I

am beyond disappointed to say the least.

[babylonsister]

54. Do share what his policy on NCLB will be. I'm all ears, because he

hasn't elaborated what he will or won't do about NCLB, especially if he's working for Obama and following PE Obama's vision.

Come on, you seem so knowledgeable.

[makinguphumans]

55. Precisely. He has NOT said. Its time to scrap it and start anew. Put

the kids first. Simple as that.

[babylonsister]

57. He hasn't even been officially announced yet and is in no position

to tell you anything yet. Don't you think it's a bit early to trash the guy?

And judging from his resume, he's been putting kids first for years.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. If he supports NCLB and merit pay I oppose him

Both need to go.

I want an education secretary who understands HOW to put kids first. Just saying so doesn't make it happen.

[babylonsister]

63. Again, we don't know what his agenda will be.

Imagine getting a job and there's a school full of people screaming for your head before you did a thing? That's what this sounds like. I know I'm not changing PE Obama's opinion, so will hope for the best. I do believe Obama does have the best interests of kids at heart. He may not dismantle NCLB but I can see revisions down the road. I hope they meet with teachers' approval.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. I don't mean to be argumentative

but I have poured over his education platform, and so have lots of teachers. It's really not that great. For example, universal preschool is a fabulous idea but very expensive and we need other reforms first. We need something other than cute ideas that appeal to people who are not educators.

My district started universal pre k this year. They are providing no money for transportation so it's only open to kids who have parents who can transport them back and forth to school. (That's not really universal) They are also using a watered down kindergarten curriculum, which isn't really meeting the needs of 3 and 4 year olds. But kindergarten is now watered down first grade so it makes sense that no one has bothered to develop developmentally appropriate programs.

So just saying you favor universal preschool is not enough. What are the details? How is he going to pay for it? How will this really help our kids and not just provide day care?

I agree our kids are in better hands than they have been under Bush. But so far, Obama has yet to win me over on education. I also know lots of teachers who agree with me.

Just a few things I would like Obama to promote:

1. No more NCLB. I am not willing to compromise on this point. This law sucks, it is expensive and it is destroying public education. It needs to GO, not be reformed.

2. Abolish the drop out age. Make our kids stay in school until they are 18 and/or have earned a high school diploma. No more GEDs, no more kids entering the workforce without a high school diploma.

3. Year round school. This is also non negotiable for me. It's long past due.

4. REAL alternative schools staffed by teachers trained to meet the needs of these kids. And available to kids starting in preschool. We can't meet the needs of all of our kids in traditional public schools. The rubber stamp approach is not working.

5. A dramatic increase in teacher pay. At least 10% across the board, probably more for teachers in rural and urban areas who are way underpaid.

6. Bottom up management. Let's finally involve teachers, parents and kids in real school reform instead of adopting some idea someone at Harvard (or in Chicago:) ) came up with that looks pretty on paper but doesn't meet the needs of the kids in every community.

[babylonsister]

72. Ha! I always wonder when

someone starts something with " I don't mean to be argumentative but..." :)

You are a teacher so I of course defer to you. But from what I've read, as in so many of PE Obama's picks, 'it could have been worse'. I think you should be hired myself! Or address your post to change.gov and let them know what needs to be done.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_12/016072.php
Threading the needle at education

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. I need some details

How has he reformed schools in Chicago? (And just like Houston a decade ago, I am hearing the stories of great gains in Chicago are overblown.)

Is this just another Rod Paige? God forbid.

I am going down to our union office today. (It's a snow day here and we are phone banking :) )* I will ask what our president knows about this guy. Hopefully AFT will make some comments about him soon. I remember when Rod Paige was selected, we knew more about him before he was officially announced than we wanted to know, thanks to our union.

*I will email you the latest news on the crap we are dealing with here.

[EduConsumer]

105. What do you propose to do about mediocre teachers?

I see you are opposed to merit pay because of the complexity
of such a system.  My question to you is what do you propose
to address the problem of mediocre teachers collecting a
paycheck?  My children have plenty of good teachers that enjoy
teaching and inspiring interest and instilling a love of
learning.  

BUT, HOW do we weed out the teachers that deaden the learning
process, kill student interest, and just don't give a hoot
about their job?  In the corporate world, we have annual
performance reviews and if we don't make adjustments after a
poor performance review to improve our performance we're
fired.  

What do you think would work in your world?

[YvonneCa]

123. Define 'mediocre.' And welcome to DU. n/t

[Jennicut]

61. Obama supports universal preschool. As a soon to be preschool teacher

that is more important then anything. Kids form their view of the world very early. Lots of underprivileged and poor kids can't go to preschool and their minds are wasted, brain connections are never made. This is his most important idea in education to me. As far as Arne Duncan goes, as with lots of Obama appts. there is speculation as to what he will be like but we have not even heard from the man. I am willing to give him a chance. NCLB obviously does not work. Testing is out of control. In my daughter's preschool she is learning her letters. I did not learn them until Kindergarten. Our kids are pushed too hard and yet we keep falling behind in math, science, and even in subjects like history. I have done a lot of research on this and kids taught the lecture-style of teaching are not active participants. In Japan, teachers let children work on a math problem themselves for a long time and then step in to help. In the US, the teacher teaches the math problem while the kids sit there not engaged. I hope we can address the problems we have here, its a big job.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. I just posted about universal preschool

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7983026&mesg_id=7985337

[Jennicut]

82. Watered down preschool is better then none at all.

Any kind of enrichment program has to be in place. This is when kids start forming connections in their brains which last a lifetime. Read the book Magic Tress of the Mind by Marian Diamond and Janet Hopson. http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Trees-Mind-Intelligence-Adolescence/dp/0452278309 I had to read it for Child Development class and I was amazed at what kids learn and when they learn it. There is a critical period when kids learn the best and are able to absorb the most information and things like new languages and by late middle childhood (4th grade to 7th grade) it is way too late.

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Of course I agree

But as a longtime public school teacher, I want programs that help ALL of our kids. And as a special ed teacher, I am concerned about the 3 and 4 year olds who are NOT in preschool because they don't have transportation, or they are homeless, or their parents are inept or well, you get the idea I hope.

If preschool is so important then let's put it in place nationwide. And really, we can do better than watered down, can't we? :)

[Jennicut]

100. Yes, I really hope we someday have a good program in place for young children

not to mention the pay for preschool teachers is in the toilet. Luckily, I am only looking to supplement my husband's income as he already works 2 jobs (!). Transportation is a big problem. I agree there are lots of good ideas out there but how to get them in place is key.

[Renew Deal]

75. Well, I was hoping for Joel Klein

:evilgrin:

OK, I wasn't.

[Odin2005]

76. He sounds good to me.

My only concern is the Merit Pay thing. I'm not necessity opposed to merit pay, but I can't see how it would work in education, there too many things that are out of the control of teachers. But I am no fan of the current system, either, Go ahead, flame, me, but when I was in high school I got the feeling that the current way of doing things coddles mediocre teachers with seniority.

I'm of the opinion that the American education system is screwed up beyond redemption and truly radical reform is needed, it's not something that can be fixed with a few acts of Congress, a clean slate is needed to create an educational system that actually works. Unfortunately I don't think such truly radical reform will ever happen because both the right-wing ideologues that want to privatize all public education on one hand and the teachers' "unions" on the other will get in the way. Our education system originated over 100 years ago when the main concern was to create a society of literate farmers and factory workers the world has changed a lot since then. A total re-design of American education will need to utilize the power of the Internet in a very fundamental way, perhaps replacing may physical classrooms with virtual ones.

[SoxFan]

85. Decent compromise pick

I would have preferred a more balls-to-the-wall reformer like Andy Rotherham or Michelle Rhee, but Carlson is a good pick, and probably one that will stir up fewer political difficulties. He has a decent working relationship with the AFT, though the NEA, which is far more resistant to change, may still raise a stink.

[ecstatic]

89. I don't know this guy, but after today's presser, I'm sold!

I really hope he can clean up the schools, especially the disadvantaged ones.

[Yukari Yakumo]

91. I'm leaning favorable on this one...

However, I'm having a hard time finding any policy stances with him. Though if he pisses off the status quo, he'd gets a few points with me.

And if he wants to trust-bust American Schools of Education's monopoly on certification, I'd applaud him.

[Jennicut]

104. He is in the middle between the unions and school reformers

per articles I have read about him.

[Runcible Spoon]

99. Ran Chicago schools into the GROUND is more like it...

fucking fantastic, another Ivy League policy pusher, not in touch with the brutal realities facing public schools today. Sigh.

[babylonsister]

106. Why don't you back that statement up? People who don't live in

Chicago have no idea what you're talking about. I'm surprised no one else from IL has made this same claim, too, if he's that bad. And, if he's that bad, I'm surprised PE Obama hired him.

[Runcible Spoon]

107. Chicago schools have one of the highest dropout rates.

there's plenty online. Someone pushing merit pay and increased testing isn't going to lead any revolutionary change. As far as Obama hiring him, well Obama has made a lot of problematic choices across the board.

[babylonsister]

108. Can the dropout rate be blamed on Duncan or the fact that inner-city

youth have so many challenges? I don't know what will work with or for the youth in Chicago, but Mr. Duncan is more qualified than I to figure it out.

[Runcible Spoon]

110. Of course he is not to "blame" for the entire issue..

but he certainly has a modicum of responsibility for not drastically improving those rates. As far as Duncan's qualifications, he has spent ZERO days teaching. I think that in and of itself is just as problematic as anything else.