Let's focus on the real outrage: Bush's pardons

[Alcibiades]

Am I particularly happy about Warren playing any role in the Obama inauguration? Not particularly. But what's really upsetting is that this is keeping us from keeping our heads in the game. This is a massive distraction that hits enough people's hot buttons that we've become rather obsessed.

This is a time when we need to stay focused. The Bush administration is about to leave office and, as it does so, it seems certain that they will make one final assault on the principle of the rule of law by issuing pardons to folks at many different levels in the White House, the administration and deep down into the various departments, where Bush's cronies have been engaged in criminality for the past eight years.

Obama and his people are doing everything they can to get their administration named and confirmed as rapidly as possible. As the clock winds down on the Bush administration, we need to stay focused on what's really important in preserving our democratic heritage, and that's making sure that the bastards don't get away with it. To this end, here are some simple ideas for LTTEs and anyone with access to the media:

* Bush should pledge that he will pardon no one appointed by his administration. If this administration has been observing the law, there should be no need to issue any pardons, preemptive, blanket or otherwise. This will not happen, but it should be a demand of ours anyway.

* The public needs to realize that pardons by an outgoing president of members of his administration are a measure of the criminality of that administration.

* We should preempt the preemptive pardons by predicting them. We need to get out there and say "Look, this is a criminal administration, and it is about to show the extent of its criminality by issuing pardons for criminal acts ordered by the president." We need to do this so that, in two years and four years when the country votes again, we can remind the voters of the massive criminality that takes place whenever and wherever Republicans see an opening.

* We should also be particular about what sorts of pardons are most unacceptable: blanket pardons, preemptive pardons and any pardons that are issued to people acting on the order of the president.
Such pardons would preempt the pursuit of justice by absolving the guilty before anyone has been charged with an offense, and would forever prevent an honest and impartial investigation of any wrongdoing. Moreover, any pardons of anyone who acted under Bush's orders show a clear conflict of interest on the part of the president, and violate the spirit of the law.

* Under no circumstances should the president be allowed to pardon himself. This set a dictatorial precedent, and gut any meaningful checks on executive power by the legislative or judicial branches.

* We should also be aware that Bush may seek to camouflage these pardons under the cloak of national security and the "war on terror," but that's a red herring. The administration's criminality is in no way limited to the conduct of any war--in fact, its criminality in other areas may eclipse even the terrible misdeeds Bush has committed in the name of national security.

Bush has ruled as a king, on who holds any constitutional check on his authority in contempt. As a consequence, his entire administration has run roughshod over our proud tradition of maintaining the rule of law, violating court orders, acts of Congress, and the Constitution itself in the process. THIS HAS BEEN THE STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. We will know the full truth the day after Inauguration Day: until then, we need to occupy ourselves with making sure that Bush and his cronies--not just at the top, but, as the Monica Goodling matter has shown, deep into what are normally non-partisan jobs--are held accountable.

I am upset about the Warren thing. But I'm much more upset that Bush and his henchmen might escape justice.

[T Wolf]

1. Obama wants to move straight ahead, so we must not waste time looking backward at

what might or might not have happened in the past.

What is important is that we support him in what he does to lead this country to the bright, post-partisan future where all views are respected.

If he has to do more to bring those who voted against him into his coalition of the undecided, then so be it. We know that libtards and other unAmericans on the left will have no choice but to shut up and go along. After all, what are they going to do - switch parties?

[Alcibiades]

5. I do like Holder

ZObama has promised to sic his AG on the Bush administration:

OBAMA: Well one of things that I’ve said, and I’ve said this repeatedly publicly, since I taught constitutional law for ten years is that...one of my first acts as president is going to be call in my new attorney general to review every single executive order that’s been issued... to overturn those that are undermining the Constitution, undermining our civil liberties, that are promoting this cockamamie theory of Unitary government, that says that somehow the executive branch does not need to obey the Constitution…uhh

I do like some of the things Holder has said:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/19/holder-justice-issues/

I do agree with your premise that Obama will do the things that have support among the broad American public. Investigating the crimes of the Bush administration should not be partisan. Post-partisanship should incluse support for the rule of law.

Anyway, if we allow ourselves to be distracted and redirected by the media to things like Warren, then we will never see justice done. If we, the grassroots, don't talk about holding Bush accountable, you know the media won't, and it becomes less likely that we'll see any justice done at all. :patriot:

We need to restore the rule of law. That's post-partisan. But we do need to remind folks that Republican presidents, lobbyists and memebers of Congress are, as a rule of thumb, unindicted co-conspirators.

[leftynyc]

2. I'm afraid you're going to be

very disappointed. Expect blanket pardons for Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Gonzales and probably a few others - it's why Cheney is being so open about the torture thing. The pardons ARE going to happen.

[Alcibiades]

4. I expect you're right

Which is why we need to remind folks that the Bush administration has been far more criminal than even the Nixon administration. We need to make it simple: Republicans are criminals, which is why Bush had to pardon so many of them.

I expect he will set a record.

[leftynyc]

6. His father gave blanket pardons

on his way out the door and suffered no repercussions. I think people are going to be so grateful that he's gone that they wont really care one way or the other. They want the economy back on track, the soldiers to come home. Punishing the chimp will fall pretty far down on the things they will care about. Unfortunate but I think it's true.

[unpossibles]

3. also, don't forget the last minute regulations Bush is passing!

This makes me sick.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/24991066/bushs_final_fu

...
In its final days, the administration is rushing to implement a sweeping array of "midnight regulations" — de facto laws issued by the executive branch — designed to lock in Bush's legacy. Under the last- minute rules, which can be extremely difficult to overturn, loaded firearms would be allowed in national parks, uranium mining would be permitted near the Grand Canyon and many injured consumers would no longer be able to sue negligent manufacturers in state courts....

The most jaw-dropping of Bush's rule changes is his effort to eviscerate the Endangered Species Act. Under a rule submitted in November, federal agencies would no longer be required to have government scientists assess the impact on imperiled species before giving the go-ahead to logging, mining, drilling, highway building or other development. The rule would also prohibit federal agencies from taking climate change into account in weighing the impact of projects that increase greenhouse emissions....

BIG COAL In early December, the administration finalized a rule that allows the industry to dump waste from mountaintop mining into neighboring streams and valleys, a practice opposed by the governors of both Tennessee and Kentucky. "This makes it legal to use the most harmful coal-mining technology available," says Allen Hershkowitz, a senior scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council. A separate rule also relaxes air-pollution standards near national parks, allowing Big Coal to build plants next to some of America's most spectacular vistas — even though nine of 10 EPA regional administrators dissented from the rule or criticized it in writing. "They're willing to sacrifice the laws that protect our national parks in order to build as many new coal plants as possible....

BIG AGRICULTURE Factory farms are getting two major Christmas presents from Bush this year. Circumventing the Clean Water Act, the administration has approved last-minute regulations that will allow animal waste from factory farms to seep, unmonitored, into America's waterways. The regulation leaves it up to the farms themselves to decide whether their pollution is dangerous enough to require them to apply for a permit. "It's the fox guarding the henhouse — all too literally," says Pope. The water rule goes into effect December 22nd, and a related rule in the works would exempt factory farms from reporting air pollution from animal waste.

Much more at link.


I guess this stuff is not important enough to be news.... </sarcasm?>

[Ioo]

7. There is a forum for that, it is called General Discussion, this one is about Obama

[Alcibiades]

8. Except that we're spending a bit more time criticizing Obama

rather than Bush. Oh, and Bush is still the president, whether elected or selected, and therefore we can talk about him in General Discussion: Presidential. In fact, I think this is the place for that.

[Phx_Dem]

9. And war crimes and civil rights violations. n/t