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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:58 AM
Original message
Obama's Talking Points On Rick Warren (updated)
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 12:51 PM by ProSense
Sam Stein

Obama's Talking Points On Rick Warren

At his press conference on Thursday, Barack Obama for the first time addressed the flurry of protest that has erupted over the choice of Rick Warren to give the inaugural invocation.

<...>

The remarks came after progressives and, in particular, the gay and lesbian community criticized the president-elect's decision to give such a prominent role to a pastor whose views on torture, gay rights, and stem cell research don't align with Obama's stated agenda.

Indeed, the backlash against the Warren selection has been swift and fierce, putting Obama's inauguration team largely on the defensive. A source sent over a copy of talking points making the rounds among the president-elect's staff in order to rebut these critiques. A transition official would not confirm or dispute the material, but did acknowledge that it sounded "an awful lot like what I have been saying."

  • This will be the most open, accessible, and inclusive Inauguration in American history.

  • In keeping with the spirit of unity and common purpose this Inauguration will reflect, the President-elect and Vice President-elect have chosen some of the world's most gifted artists and people with broad appeal to participate in the inaugural ceremonies.

  • Pastor Rick Warren has a long history of activism on behalf of the disadvantaged and the downtrodden. He's devoted his life to performing good works for the poor and leads the evangelical movement in addressing the global HIV/AIDS crisis. In fact, the President-elect recently addressed Rick Warren's Saddleback Civil Forum on Global Health to salute Warren's leadership in the struggle against HIV/AIDS and pledge his support to the effort in the years ahead.

  • The President-elect disagrees with Pastor Warren on issues that affect the LGBT community. They disagree on other issues as well. But what's important is that they agree on many issues vital to the pursuit of social justice, including poverty relief and moving toward a sustainable planet; and they share a commitment to renewing America's promise by expanding opportunity at home and restoring our moral leadership abroad.

  • As he's said again and again, the President-elect is committed to bringing together all sides of the faith discussion in search of common ground. That's the only way we'll be able to unite this country with the resolve and common purpose necessary to solve the challenges we face.

  • The Inauguration will also involve Reverend Joseph Lowery, who will be delivering the official benediction at the Inauguration. Reverend Lowery is a giant of the civil rights movement who boasts a proudly progressive record on LGBT issues. He has been a leader in the struggle for civil rights for all Americans, gay or straight.

  • And for the very first time, there will be a group representing the interests of LGBT Americans participating in the Inaugural Parade.
The inclusion of Rev. Joseph Lowery, an icon of the civil rights movement and a respected progressive voice is, perhaps, the Obama team's most obvious defense. One progressive pastor I spoke with on Wednesday, who was critical of the Warren selection, said she would have been fine had the two pastors merely switched spots in the program.

But the inclusiveness of the inauguration is an important point to stress as well. At his 2005 inaugural, George W. Bush tapped Rev. Dr. Louis Leon to deliver the invocation. Like Obama and Warren, the two shared a commitment to combating AIDS in Africa, as well as a friendship from time spent in each other's company. But Leon was and is a progressive voice. And his selection in '04 sparked a lot of interest, though little of the outrage that we see with Warren.


Update reaction from blogs:

Obama is not so much using the left as a foil here as he is using division and polarization in general as his foil. The question that just won't go away, however, is why campaigning against division and polarization by picking an equally radical choice on the left to give the invocation would be politically unthinkable.

Such a decision would be met not just with screams from the right, but outrage from middle-of-the-road pols and pundits all over the country. But the pick of Warren is only generating outrage from the left, so it doesn't matter, and indeed, it's good for Obama politically, we're told.

To be clear, this state of affairs isn't Obama's fault, obviously. It's just an apparently un-mutable fact of our political life, for reasons that are beyond this blog's pay grade to grapple with.

Late Update: Aravosis wants to know when we're going to be asked to politely agree to disagree with haters of other groups.

link


I'm really starting to think that the Obama administration really doesn't care what the so called "far left" thinks anymore than they do what the "far right" thinks. We are the same people who's voices he said would not be drowned out by special interests, and now he's treating us like we are the special interests.

But there you have it, straight from the transition team and the President-Elect's mouth. He picked Warren, and he's going to stick with Warren (too bad he didn't have that much conviction when it came to letting Rev. Wright give the invocation at his initial announcement, they didn't agree on everything either, yet Rev. Wright got the axe).

link


This certainly sounds reasonable. Obama wants to bring people together and focus on what unites Americans. He supports gay rights, but he's willing to engage prominent figures like Rick Warren, even though they disagree. Indeed, Warren reached out to him in 2006, and now Obama, as a sign of respect, is doing the same thing in return. It's a symbolic gesture about inclusiveness and the importance of diversity of thought.

I get it. In fact, it's a noble and admirable goal. But Warren is still the wrong choice for the inauguration.

Consider it this way: imagine the Obama White House were to host an inter-faith dialog on the great moral issues of the day. President Obama and his team want a lively discussion with a variety of competing ideas, and invite a wide variety of pastors, including Warren, to participate. There may be some who would say this is wrong -- that Warren's conservative believes should necessarily disqualify him from being invited to the White House. If, under those circumstances, Obama responded by saying, "There are going to be a wide range of viewpoints that are presented -- and that how it should be, because that's what America's about," I would agree without hesitation.

But that's not what we're talking about here. There's only going to be one invocation at Obama's inauguration, and it will be delivered be a conservative who strongly disagrees with Obama on gay rights, reproductive rights, foreign policy, and modern science. I'm a huge fan of diversity of thought, and if Obama and Warren want to have a spirited dialog, I'd no doubt find it fascinating. But that's not what we're talking about here.

Indeed, in Obama's response this morning, he seemed to suggest he was returning a favor -- Warren invited him to speak at his church, so Obama is inviting him to speak at his inauguration. The problem, of course, is that the two are in no way comparable.

I'm afraid Obama's decision, at its core, is ironic. In the name of tolerance, he's elevating someone who's intolerant. In the name of acceptance, he's extending an imprimatur to someone who refuses to accept those unlike himself.

link




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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. I understand people are angry at the choice, but they shouldn't be surprised.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh boy
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am revolted by the choice. Warren is a hypocrite.
He is just another big box preacher who takes money from his followers for his own benefit while preaching intolerance.

I am trying to understand why Obama chose him, I really am. Having a hard time.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Karl Rove lives on. It's not a lie if you really BELIEVE it.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Obama seems rather naive at times
"As he's said again and again, the President-elect is committed to bringing together all sides of the faith discussion in search of common ground."

Sometimes there is no common ground.
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bigscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. you nailed it PaulK
thanks
S
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. If he is pissing off many at DU and FR, maybe he is indeed finding common ground?
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 12:10 PM by GarbagemanLB
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bigscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. or maybe many on DU
think more like Freepers when it comes to Equal Rights?:shrug:
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. there is always common ground
we're all standing on it, in fact.

Whether or not people choose to see that through their blinders is the question. The very definition of progress is finding common ground and moving forward.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. yeah sure common ground...
"Ummm, puppies are cute"

"I agree. I also like kittens"

................
................

<awkward silence>
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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Well, I think Obama just really wants the religious to like him.
Being religious himself, I think he came at this from this angle and didn't really think through the other angle. Which is stupid and fucked up.


Then again, what the hell do I know.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Except that he TOLD YOU the common ground.
Please try to read before responding.

# Pastor Rick Warren has a long history of activism on behalf of the disadvantaged and the downtrodden. He's devoted his life to performing good works for the poor and leads the evangelical movement in addressing the global HIV/AIDS crisis. In fact, the President-elect recently addressed Rick Warren's Saddleback Civil Forum on Global Health to salute Warren's leadership in the struggle against HIV/AIDS and pledge his support to the effort in the years ahead.

# The President-elect disagrees with Pastor Warren on issues that affect the LGBT community. They disagree on other issues as well. But what's important is that they agree on many issues vital to the pursuit of social justice, including poverty relief and moving toward a sustainable planet; and they share a commitment to renewing America's promise by expanding opportunity at home and restoring our moral leadership abroad.


That's the definition of "common ground". Those things upon which both sides agree. How the hell do you imply there is no common ground to be found in reply to a post listing the common ground right in it?

No common ground on LGBT... common ground on poverty/HIV/environmental issues. Get it? And refusing cooperative effort on the issues we DO agree on out of anger over the fact that we don't agree on others is what some of us call idiocy. If we don't work with people on ANYTHING unless they agree with us on EVERYTHING we are going to have a very small pool of people trying to get anything done. I would think this would not be a difficult concept to grasp, but apparently it is just right out of reach of a whole lot of people around here.

Obama DOES NOT agree with Warren on gay issues. He is not proposing to work with Warren on gay issues. He is not proposing to give Warren influence over policy decisions that effect the gay community. He is putting gay people in his freaking Cabinet for cripes sake. All he is doing is saying... "hey, these two groups do agree on SOME things, let's get them both working on THAT at least and actually get shit done there". What a horrible concept, right?
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I understand the symbolic nature of this gesture


I think he's making a mistake.

Obama's campaign has always had a messianic streak running through it, it is something that has bothered me about him from the first. This is one of the clearest examples of his putting gesture above political practicality. I think it's naive and ultimately dangerous.

This gesture gives Rick Warren credibility, not just his AIDS/HIV efforts, but also his anti GLBT/anti-choice/bigotry. Obama is not a spiritual leader, whose job it is to get us all to hold hands. He's a politician and his job is to represent the people who put him in office, and those are not the Rick Warrens of this world.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Great take on it
Interesting. I take the other view mostly and it's very cynical. Obama is already running for 2012. Now that's political and it may work. But frankly, Obama is starting to make me feel icky-either way-he can't save the world by making nice with bigots and the warmongers. And he can't get anything done if all he does is continue to campaign in his genius way. (All those Warren fans-voting for Obama now!)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. If this bigot didn't oppose choice and gay rights, maybe he wouldn't have to work so hard
on poverty and AIDS. Those four issues are intimately related. Fuck him.

This isn't a description of "common ground". This is spin. And guess what, having this slime on stage with him IS policy.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. There are NO moderates left in the GOP, what is the middle ground with extremist?
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. See reply #12. -nt
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Keep underestimating him
The people who did during the primaries and general election can tell you how that worked out.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. That's not naivete. That's political cover that people eat with a spoon. n/t
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt
I wouldn't want to think that this was just a cynical move on his part, a behind the back signal concerning how he really feels concerning the GLBT community.

A "gesture" of another sort... one that involves the middle finger.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. I voted for hope & change and all I got were talking points.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's not just about gay rights. It's about being anti-science, anti-choice, and saying...
Jews, Catholics, etc. are going to Hell.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think we are seeing the "democrat" version
of Rovian doublespeak

SCREW THE LEFT ha ha ha! They are just suckers anyway!
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. *whew* You scared me!
I was afraid we were going to lose our 'representation' in the parade - thank God we still get to be part of the entertainment!
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. "This will be the most open, accessible, and inclusive Inauguration in American history."
I'll take it!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. This @sshole can't be credited for working with the poor if he's anti-choice.
He can be credited with contributing to their numbers, though.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. Warren praises Obama's 'courage'
December 18, 2008

Warren praises Obama's 'courage'

Rick Warren, in his first statement since the announcement that he'd give the invocation at the inauguration, praises Obama's willingness to "take enormous heat from his base." Which probably won't turn down the temperature any.

He doesn't address gay rights directly.

Here's the statement:

I commend President-elect Obama for his courage to willingly take enormous heat from his base by inviting someone like me, with whom he doesn't agree on every issue, to offer the Invocation at his historic Inaugural ceremony.

Hopefully individuals passionately expressing opinions from the left and the right will recognize that both of us have shown a commitment to model civility in America.

The Bible admonishes us to pray for our leaders. I am honored by this opportunity to pray God's blessing on the office of the President and its current and future inhabitant, asking the Lord to provide wisdom to America's leaders during this critical time in our nation's history.







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