Progressive Leaders/Presidents NEVER sit down w/ bigots or give them a platform!!! O RLY? pic heavy

[HamdenRice]

A huge amount of historical amnesia has been on display these last few days, about the precedent of "reaching out" to those who are perceived as bigots. When you pretend that Obama's reaching out to Warren, despite his profoundly disagreeing with Warren on some issues, is some sort of new or unprecedented phenomenon, or that progressive leaders never give a platform to or negotiate with bigots, it just makes it seem like you have no knowledge of history.

Welcome to the real, grown up world of politics:



























And oh yeah, if any of you racial dog whistlers want to raise the stupid, ill informed, historically illiterate meme about "JFK inviting a KKK member to participate in his inauguration," just how lame is your historical knowledge? You do realize that the Democratic Party was full of racist Dixiecrats in 1961, and that the Vice President (pictured here behind JFK) was, until the 60s, a segregationist who blocked civil rights legislation over and over during the 50s, right? I would love to know how many people at this scene really did have white robes in their closets!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Oh! I had no idea so many bigots had spoken at inaugurations!

Or are those all the personal preachers of presidents?

Oh wait, it's neither.

[Phx_Dem]

31. Oh wait. Why don't you narrow your argument down a little further

It's okay for them to be invited to the White House and mingle with Presidents, but it's an fucking outrage for them to give a 3 minute prayer at an inauguration? That makes absolutely no sense, but don't let it get in the way of your outrage.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

34. It is a fucking outrage to have one of the major instruments of prop 8 be honored at his

inauguration, and if you don't think it's an outrage he's picked as the major religious speaker a first-class homophobe, prop 8 organizer, believer that women do not have the right to their own bodies, and Republican that asks his followers to vote for Republicans, then you and I have absolutely no reason to be discussing anything.

[Joe the Revelator]

33. I see that you're still pretending that Billy Graham was a saint

[The Magistrate]

2. The First Line Of Attack, Sir

Will be claims that President Clinton, Sec. Albright, and others here, are not 'really' progressives, but 'Dinos', 'corporate shills', etc.

[noamnety]

4. You mean because

Clinton reached out to bigots and then helped enact bigoted policies?

[HamdenRice]

5. Rofl, and neither I suppose, is Mandela! nt

[The Magistrate]

7. Best Not To Rouse, Sir, My Native Tendencies Towards Advocatus Diaboli

Because the thing probably could be done by, one sufficiently impish, sufficiently bored, and sufficiently stoked with caffeine and sugar...

[DevonRex]

11. Heh heh. You're kinda cracking me up. Thank you for the levity. nt

[tabatha]

16. What was interesting about Mandela, is that the

Nationalist Government reached out to Mandela when they saw they could not cope with the riots, intending to bring him on board WITHOUT giving up their power. However, Mandela out-maneuvered them and they ended up losing power.

[geek tragedy]

8. I believe the first line of attack is to note that

Helms et al were people with whom the Democrats in question were forced to deal with as part of their jobs.

I don't recall Clinton bestowing honors upon Jesse Helms and including him in his inaugural events.

[HamdenRice]

9. The issue is the same: political expediency

Clinton did not have to participate in a ceremony with Strom Thurmond, but calculated that every bit of reaching out helped. Remember when Hillary first went to the Senate, she was said to have "charmed" Thurmond.

Same with Obama. He doesn't have to deal with Warren, but as several news analyses point out, it is expedient for both of them to use each other -- in Obama's case for goals we all believe in.

[mopinko]

17. took a whole 15 posts

folks must be starting to get tired.

how you doing, sir? we need a chicago get together.

[jonnyblitz]

3. holy crap what a STUPID thread!!

how does this equate to a speaking position at an presidential inaugeration so soon after something like proposition 8 has occured? this is beyond LAME. you never cease to dissapoint with your idiocy. :puke:

[Bluebear]

13. You said it.

[JVS]

18. Yeah! VP is NOTHING convocation prayer is EVERYTHING!

[HamdenRice]

23. I love the smell of internet Ju Jitsu in the morning!!! nt

[Hanse]

20. So you're arguing that it's bad because of the timing of prop. 8?

You're saying it's not really that big of a deal then.

[NWHarkness]

6. Who made any such claim?

I've read no posts in which anyone said that Progressive leaders never "sit down with bigots".

That's a straw man argument.

[Douglas Carpenter]

10. interesting point and nice photo's

[AllentownJake]

12. I wonder how many of those pictures were right after a stinging defeat

of the community in question.

I also see alot of elected officials. Hard not to meet with people who have the title of Senator, Govenor, Vice President or President and none of those people are necessisarily being honored in those pictures.

[Bjorn Against]

14. There is a difference between meeting with people and honoring people

No one is saying that there should be no communication whatsoever with the right. Being given a speaking role at the inauguration is more than just a meeting however, it is a great honor to be asked to speak at the inauguration and there is absolutely no reason that Warren should be honored.

[tbyg52]

21. Word. nt

[KittyWampus]

24. the stupidity of saying there's a difference between "meeting people", "holding summits with"

and then "honoring" people is so great one doesn't need to even point it out to rational people.

[Bjorn Against]

27. There is a huge difference between meeting with people and honoring people.

And yes, it is very stupid to not be able to see that difference.

[Gormy Cuss]

29. There's also a huge difference between meeting with political figures with opposing views

and granting a seal of approval to a private citizen bigot by inviting him to a place of honor at a major media event.

[Bjorn Against]

30. Exactly the point I was trying to make.

[FLAprogressive]

15. and since when was Bill Clinton a "progressive"?

[HamdenRice]

22. Hey Mag! Ding, ding, ding!!! What r u a clairvoyant or something? nt

[KittyWampus]

25. What about Martin Luther King?

[HamdenRice]

37. Great picture! nt

[Cattledog]

19. Bono's a racist OMG!

[alwysdrunk]

26. Obama bashers don't care about the real, grown up world of politics

They don't live there. The want Obama to come and join them in the fantasy world where a president can antagonize and alienate all who he disagrees with. He might send a postcard, but he's coming there.

[LeftCoast]

28. Straw man argument

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.<1> To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position.<1> While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.

Read the full description of a Straw Man argument here.

[ecstatic]

32. I don't recognize half the tools displayed... Before my time?

:shrug:

[HamdenRice]

36. OK youngins, gather round

The first few pictures are of one of the most racist senators of the second half of the 20th century, Jesse Helms, getting the meet and greet from Bill Clinton and various other presidents and politicians including VP elect Joe Biden and former UN Secretary General Kofi Anan (originally of Ghana, West Africa).

There is pic of Strom Thurmond with Bill thrown in. Notice I said Helms was "one of the most racist" and not "the most racist," because clearly, Strom out-racisted even Jesse, despite Strom's fathering a mulatta with a black woman.

Next comes a pic of Jimmy Carter with George "Segregation now, segregation forever" Wallace. Then are a few pics of Nelson Mandela with his negotiating partner in ending apartheid, and staunch apartheid advocate for many years, F.W. de Klerk. The last pic is of Carter with Menachem Begin (Israel) and Anwar Sadat (Egypt) making peace through the mediation of Carter. Both Begin and Sadat arguably were bigots toward their adversary countries.

[ecstatic]

38. thank you. lol. Jesse Helms looked funny nt

[polichick]

35. Why is it so hard for some posters to differentiate between working with creeps...

...and placing them in symbolic places of honor??