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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:04 PM
Original message
Anger blinds you
it inflames you to the point that your emotions block your ability to make logical judgments about how you are going to do what you need to do and get what you need to get.

I've watched it in myself and in my friends, periods of time in our life when we are so overwhelmed by the injustice of our situation that we get flustered and make a series of bad decisions that only serve to worsen the already shitty situation, not only that, we are so blinded by thirst for vengeance that we fail to see positive opportunities coming our way and subsequently miss them.

It doesn't matter how justified your anger and indignation is, if you let it blind you, you will end up making major blunders and only make things worse.

I've given this piece of advice many times before to friends that were about to step into some major shit because their emotions were blinding them and now I recommend this train of thought to the more outraged members of the DU community: Anger can be a powerful tool only if you control it, if it controls you, it will ultimately lead you to self-destruction. Anger leads to frustration, leads to despair, leads to hopelessness, leads to darkness. I can tell many of you are at that point right now of being so angry that your ability to be logical is breaking down.

As a Californian, I cannot begin to stress the shame and anger I feel toward the people of my state because of Prop 8. I recently found out that someone I care for deeply voted for it, and it caused me great pain and confusion, I am yet to speak with them, and am putting if off because I don't even know if I can look them in the eye without totally cussing them out for it.

I want there to be no doubt about my absolute and unwaivering dedication to the idea that all humanity deserves equality in the eyes of the law without exception or limitation of any kind. If I critique some of the rampant anger that has taken place here at DU, it is only because I believe it to be ultimately counter-productive to a sense of unity and moral among the Progressive ranks and therefore a hindrance to the advancement of Gay rights.

The truth is that the overwhelming majority of DUers are the same place I am right now: full equality, no exceptions. If there are a few that aren't there yet, they are on their way and will be a helluva lot more helpful to the movement if given a helping hand and brought aboard as opposed to being shouted down as a bigot (that words has been used way too thoughtlessly around here lately) and pushed back toward the other side.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO START A CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD AMONG YOUR NATURAL ALLIES, BUT TO RALLY THE TROOPS FOR THE NEXT BATTLE.

THERE WILL BE FULL EQUALITY FOR THE GBLT COMMUNITY. It's not a question of if but when. There is no question about this in my mind, it's the direction in which the arc of history is pointed -all the Evangelical wing nuts in the world can't stop it. But if we turn on each other every time there is a disappointment or difference of opinion on strategy, or if we constantly let our emotions get in the way of smart strategy, we ourselves will be responsible for making the day that can't come soon enough take even longer to get here.

so moral of the story: if that anger is eating you up and you gotta let it out, go to your nearest Mormon church next Sunday and scream "bigot" or "child-molester" or "you're not a religion, you're a cult" in the face of every dumb shit Mormon you see coming out.





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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree.
Without anger, there is no clarity.

Anger is a sort of clearing house to get
the rage, frustration, outrage, and sense
of shame out so you can think better and
then take action.

It also lets others know that something is
wrong, and you mean for things to change.

GO ANGER!!!!!!!!
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think the idea is direct anger at the issue; not one another.
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. YES! EXACTLY!
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. BINGO! nt
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
40. Rick Warren and the antigay machine he's part of ARE THE ISSUE
Edited on Sat Dec-27-08 04:18 AM by Harvey Korman
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think there are two kinds of anger
a useful kind and a destructive kind.

You're thinking of the useful kind, but I've seen a lot of the destructive kind.

but see how we just disagreed with each other without going berserk and calling names?.

I think we need a little more that kind of disagreement around here a little less of the nasty hyperbole.


I think this country has a chance to dig itself out of the big hole it's in if we Progessives can keep it together and not tear each other apart over differing opinions on tactics meant to achieve the same goals.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Anger clouds clarity. Just my opinion. I have definitely
suffered my fair share of anger, and continue to, and continue also to try to get rid of it.

Anger never did me any favors. It usually has only caused me to make a complete idiot of myself. So I can't say I'm proud of anger.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. atudis prove that while angy we temporarily lose 30% of our IQ points.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. I SWORE this said "Anger binds you."
I was gonna say, eat an orange, dude.

Outrage-a-thon 2008 continues...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. No, it doesn't. But, thanks for the thought. n/t
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. thanks for proving my point!
did you even read past the title? or does it matter as long as you get to lash out at anyone or anything? Maybe I'm a bigot -Right? because I'm trying to get people thinking about accomplishing something as opposed to just wallowing in a giant anger orgy?

I mean you are so blinded that you are being a condenscending shit to someone who basically agrees with you and wants to fight for your freedom -that's just beyond stupid.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. you're actually the one jumping up and down frothing at the mouth- name calling ....
maybe this appllies to you but it's not how it works for everyone. calling DUers stupid for not being more like you? well this shit is hilarious, seriously,
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. Seriously.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. I think you proved your own point w your response to Pat. Her post did not warrant your overwrought
response. You appear to have projected a great deal into her post that simply isn't there.
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. or is it that I took a minute to try to be thoughtful
and was dismissed in a thougtless manner?
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. um, not reall your post oversimplifies + downplays her significanct concerns and seems hostile and
Edited on Sat Dec-27-08 04:41 PM by bettyellen
to opposing points of view.
good luck with that anger management thing- let's hope you're practicingi at home!
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. a couple word response from someone that isn't remotely angry sounding and without
argumentative words is worthy of a "thanks for proving my point!" Righteous anger is good - I call that anger when you see others being victimized or wronged and you want it to end and it has made you willing to tip tables if need be, but still refraining from violence against a fellow human being.

I'm glad you believe in full GLBT rights as you said. Just know that not everything we say is going to come across right - and it might upset people as you have seen with your OP's. But, it's good to know you are angry, as you say, about GLBTers not having full rights - I hope you keep that anger til we get rights. Thank you!
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
50. Dude . . . here's a tissue - you've got a little froth there at the corner.
Talk about anger. Sheesh.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. The OP has a good point
and this can be pushed further to say, who here is not for equal rights for all humanity?
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I believe it is thee fundamental tenant of Progressivism
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Rec Five, nt.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. That's a reasonable excuse, indeed
An excuse for all the trash talk that has been directed at members of DU.
"I wuz angry!!"

The anger I felt from being called names... from the bigotry directed at me... from the unreasonableness that abounded on this board, almost made me lash back and try to really hurt those posters who did all that.

But I didn't let it get the best of me. Nor did a lot of others in the same boat: we dun good.

Oh, but it hurt. Yes it did.

Forgive and forget? Not just yet.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. If a person seeks vengance, they need to dig a grave for two.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. For reasons I may never share...
I needed to hear that.

Thanks.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Your welcome. I had to learn that lesson more than once in my life. But I learned it.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
49. Who's seeking vengeance?
If righting a wrong is equivalent to seeking vengeance, then we're all in a heap of trouble.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. perhaps, but I know bigots very well when I see them. nt.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Really?
You know bigots when you see them?

Is that an absolute term?
If one shows a bit of bigotry, then they are a total bigot?
Is a person a total bigot, or none, with no account for degrees of bigotry?

Who among us is totally free of bigotry? Are you perfectly free of bigotry?
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Spend enough time as a minority and it becomes kind of a sixth sense.
I do get a kick out of the oppressed majority schtick I see here quite often though.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Way to slink away
I asked a very good question and you totally non-answered.

Are you here to discuss? If so answer the question.
You throw out the bigot term, explain it, or quit using it to describe DUers. That's only fair, eh?
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. I've gotta rec this.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. I don't remember where, but I read the best description of the effects of anger
Begin with the assumption that man survives because of memory - once our hand touches a flame we learn that it burns and we tend not to do it again. Anger wipes out our memory - anger prevents the person from accessing learned information in order to make a logical decision. Therefore, the decisions an angry person makes are usually based on faulty logic.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. yes and we will get it by following the democratic party around like a lap dog
they will as useful to us as they were doing the aids crisis

who really cares about act up anyway?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Lap dog?
Who follows the party around like a lap dog?
I haven't seen any of that here. Do we read the same DU?

Or are you just reaching out and slapping away at invisible (to the rest of us) flies?
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. Exactly the only hinderance to the advancement of rights is to fail to recongnize Obama is no Bush>
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 09:54 PM by cooolandrew
and to work positively and co-operatively to make this happen making self inflicted cuts as in real life isn't the way to go. Don't get mad get even but not getting even with the party that holds the most hope to advance ALL human rights. This is the time to zoom out focus and methodically analize which of the 2 parties moved human rights more forward and more in reverse and in this respect yes, the road may not always be easy but you have to work with the best allies in the cause unless some folks are really too concerned with the final destination and more concerned with their pain. The civil rights movement was won by putting their pain aside and making the case with fair and reasoned communication.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. I am compelled to agree.
Been there, done that, moved on.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. I could make a lame Star Wars joke here, but I already made one, so that's my quota for the day.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. Note:the MOST outraged DU'ers posting about Warren ignored the DU Prop 8 threads posted before
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 11:41 PM by cryingshame
November 4th, which is the day it lamentably passed.

I went through the archives today and looked, just out of curiosity.

You would think DU'ers that are such ardent advocates for Civil Rights being extended to gays would have actually posted on at least a FEW of those pre-Nov 4th threads.

IMO, some DU'ers are just getting off on causing this much agita.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
48. More condescension.
Actually, there may not have been as many posts pre-election, because not ALL of us live in California and really couldn't do that much about Proposition 8, except give money. Many of us were already working hard on the Obama campaign in our home states (turning CO blue, for instance).

The Warren issue, however, has incensed virtually ALL of my friends here in CO, as well as relatives in Kansas. It's nothing less than a slap in the face. I know you don't agree. I don't really care. I'm not going to shut up about it. It's wrongheaded. It's foolish. And I'm tired of working and giving to campaigns only to be kicked in the teeth immediately afterward.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. Anger can cross both lines, it can be beneficial, or it can be destructive...
It all depends on the anger and the point of the anger.

We all should get angry when we see injustice, hunger or a child being abused...it motivates us to change things. It is, in essence, an anger that brings about positive change, if not on a wide scale, at least we are motivated to help on the local level.

The anger that breeds hate is a whole different scenario. This type of anger is never very good. When the WTC was collapsing, we went from horror to anger, that anger allowed bush to invade a nation that had nothing to do w/the attacks. Then, in an act that still baffles me, we lost our anger for Osama bin-Laden, at least to the point where we were not forcing this administration to accomplish the original mission, capture the man who set up and financed the tragedy. Many people took their fear and anger, and decided that Middle-Easterners were all horrid monsters, something far from factual.

It is far easier to get,(and stay), angry than it is to get over the anger. To get over anger, we first have to understand we may have been mistaken...something only the hardiest and most honest of individuals have the fortitude to accept.

Anger breeds anger, which eventually breeds hatred. Do any of us really want to expend a lot of energy hating someone else? Most people who offend us are really not worth the time and effort we expend on them. But when we are blinded by hate, in the end, we really look pretty foolish.

For all of the dustup recently, reality seems to indicate that nothing will change in the near future. I, like millions of others, will continue to push for full Human Rights, not with anger or hate, b ut with reasoned arguments, forcing those who would deny these basic Human Rights, to answer just why they think others are "undeserving" of said Rights. By this type of confrontation, it will be shown that they have no actual realistic basis for denying a segment, any segment, of our society the Rights and Privileges other take for granted.

This will take time, but the first hurdles have been overcome...they've been overcome by reasoned discussion, not by torches and pitchforks. Together, we can make a difference...the voices of fear, hatred and anger shout into the night. The voices of reason, truth and dignity are spoken in the light of day.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
34. K&R
Edited on Sat Dec-27-08 12:52 AM by AZBlue
BTW, sorry your other thread got locked - it was very good. Too bad others around here are so in love with hate and vitriol.
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
35. wow, so condescending.
and I am straight! Why are the oppressed always the ones labeled emotional, instead of the true emotional ones?
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. So you felt the condescension too.
Good. I thought I felt condescension, but I couldnt tell my anger was gumming up my senses.
Great. Now I'm blinded by anger AND condescension.
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. well, now I am so angry about the condescension
Edited on Sat Dec-27-08 02:28 AM by sam kane
that maybe I am gay! I hope I'm not going right-wing, since "hate" radio has just owned anger for over a decade, even with little to be angry about.

If the GLBT community could steal anger from the right wing, that would be very cool. Instead of abdicating anger to them I really think that we would be better off being unapologetically angry when necessary.

Snark is fun, but as Sid Vicious said, "ANGER IS AN ENERGY."
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Right you are!
and Sid Vicious as well.
Snark is fun but you cannot dance to it.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. Thank you for noticing.
What a steaming pile of condescending shit.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #35
47. Yes.
And right after she complained about there being no posts on other topics.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
36. I object
This condescending and lecturing post can only make things worse.

Merely writing the words "I am for full equality" on a message board is easy and costs nothing.

You say that anger blinds people. That may be true, but one thing we can say - the blindness of some people here is angering people, as well it should.

The critics of the Warren selection didn't turn on anyone or start a "circular firing squad" here. Blaming them for the trouble here is just adding fuel to the fire, because it contributes to the ongoing campaign to isolate and marginalize people in the GLBTQ community.

You have nor right to state, and no evidence that supports stating that opinions you happen to disagree with must therefore be the product of someone being "blinded by anger." That is presumptuous and insulting. The presumptions and the insults, intended or not, are what are causing the problems here. That will always cause problems, because people will always resist being treated the way you are treating people here.

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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. I am calling out Barack Obama on religious bigotry....

if that is 'throwing around the term carelessly' then I'm sorry that you don't understand. I am not using the term thoughtlessly and I am not using it hatefully or with the intention of bringing him down, somehow. I am doing it so that he, or his closest supporters, might take notice and understand why those who are fighting to overturn Proposition 8 don't see this as a necessarilly democratic issue (to be determined by the majority of religious people in this nation), but see it as a civil rights issue that should fall under the protection of equality guaranteed by our Constitution, both state and federal. As president, Obama will certainly be entitled to his personal beliefs, but when it comes to supreme court rulings, even those on behalf of a state, he may be required to set those personal beliefs aside and understand that the judicial branch is doing its job.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
46. What? No time to post about Jerry Brown?
But plenty of time to post this shit?
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
51. with so much complacency and avoidance
of anything controversial in this country, some anger being directed where it belongs is refreshing. DU is a place where it can be safely expressed, to a point.

I don't see the problem. :shrug:
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