I am raged out...

[ElboRuum]

I am raged out by this ongoing flame war on DU. I've seen posts which have made me nearly break my keyboard in twain on both sides of it, and have assiduously avoided participating from any perspective because of this. I've seen those who have attempted to broker any kind of peace flamed to a cinder, and I've seen those calling for the heads of their enemies lionized and cheered on.

Well. Fine. Please, by all means, continue.

Apparently, this is something that needs to burn itself out and I'm not about to start playing firefighter. If someone could be so kind as to tap me on the shoulder when things have calmed down to a manageable level of insanity, I'd appreciate it. You can find me in the Lounge, drinking down a Guinness and placing bets on who is going to get shivved next.

[Number23]

1. That's what I don't understand either

Obama is not backing down on this. Despite the controversy and the sinking feelings in the pits of stomachs across the US, Rick Warren will be on that stage in January.

So how does running around cursing and insulting people on a web site where easily 80+% of the people here support marriage equality and homosexual rights help? What does it do exactly? People keep saying folks want them to STFU about Warren, and I've never said that (and I've only RECENTLY seen posts to that effect) but I'm beginning to understand anyone who would.

We should never stop fighting for gay rights. We should never stop fighting for marriage equality. And the idea that someone can be fired from a job, denied housing or have any of their rights violated because they are gay is something the whole world should SCREAM about.

But Rick Warren?? After 12 days?? Worth screaming over?? And at folks who have your back?? Sure, it's a good way to burn calories but beyond that, what exactly is that supposed to do?

P.S. Love the "break my keyboard in twain" bit. Very dramatic. :)

[ElboRuum]

4. For me, you hit it right on the head.

I don't understand the concept of exactly where, with nearly full agreement on the issue, that a flame war can even find a bit of kindling. I know where the rage comes from, I just don't agree that tearing each others throats out over things like semantics and word choice is particularly productive.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. That's the problem. People feel lied to. How could Obama not back down on this bigot?

That's what people are upset with and I don't understand how people could be fine with it and say, "Oh let it go. It's just gays and women's rights after all." I'll bet if it were others' rights this Warren would be history.

[PassingFair]

49. We all rolled over for the FISA bullshit without a whimper...

THAT was when I began to know that his agenda
was not "progressive".

I believe (hope) that they are saving their capital
for National Health, and that's OK with me,
for a start.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

50. I know. I didn't pay attention. In my favor, I do have ADD. However, ADD or not....

I'm now paying VERY close attention.

[noamnety]

15. What do you think caused Obama to denounce Wright?

It was continued pressure from the public, including (primarily, I would venture) bloggers and people on forums, who would NOT let it go. Much of what the media reports now is driven by what bloggers are pissed off about and won't let drop. Will he drop Warren at the inauguration? Probably not.

Will he be as likely to invite Warren again to a national stage, you think?

Will he be as likely to continue his pattern of giving other homophobic religious idiots a national stage, you think?

[phleshdef]

23. Actually it was when Wright had another angry episode just when the fire looked to be dying down.

[noamnety]

24. My impression

is that without the vocal outrage, things would have gone very differently and Wright possibly would have been speaking at the inauguration.

I don't think anyone really believes the outcry had nothing to do with it.

[BeFree]

33. The outcry

The vocalization as per the cause was very influential, indeed.

But the ensuing vitriol against members here was not influential, except that it influenced more vitriol.

You asked above if we might think Obama would, four years from now, invite a similar styled
poli-religio type of personality to his second inauguration... I think not. He's no dummy.

Message received.

[noamnety]

36. I have less faith in him.

He clearly learned jackshit from the outcry over the mcclurkin incident.

Well, I take that back. He learned he can shit all over the glbt community, and they will suck it up and still campaign for him. He lost no political capital by putting a bigot on the stage that time; that was his lesson learned.

The ongoing anger here I think HAS served a purpose and is continuing to do so, as the media plays to the current outrage and is incapable of investigating anything on their own. You don't see it as influential; I do. We disagree on that.

[Doctor_J]

45. Hare radio and Big Media "outrage"

The Limbeciles and Fox "News" idiots generally get what they want.

[mkultra]

34. yup, yell at me and your not getting my voice

I mentioned that I felt the warren choice was a move to be inclusive. The result was a severe backlash in which I was shat upon. Despite my views in support, it will be a while before I lend my voice to this issue.

shooting your own troops doesn't really work.

[Hellataz]

46. Exactly Great points!

I'm tired of being called a bigot on this board just because I see this Warren issue in a different light, yet still and always will support GLBT rights.
I'm tired of this with or against us mantra on this board.

I'd like to know one thing from each poster bitching about Obama right now?
Would you rather have McCain/Palin in office, do you wish you could change you vote?

[AntiFascist]

2. While you're there check out the Star Trek pic thread, it's hilarious! n/t

[ElboRuum]

3. I saw that one...

I was trying to find a shot of the Enterprise at the end of Star Trek III, you know the one with half the saucer section blown away, on Photobucket, but I couldn't find one.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

7. I didn't see it

Could you post a link to it?

[Deja Q]

17. Done by proxy!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8347506&mesg_id=8347506

:D

[UnrepentantLiberal]

28. Thanky

:-)

[Saturday]

5. Well said. nt

[Gman]

6. We're Democrats. That's what we do

If we happen to have the luck of that blind hog that found an ear of corn and win an election (because the other side screwed up so bad that even Obama could win the GE) we then commence to tear ourselves up fighting and swinging and bitching and moaning because MY caucus has the most important issues and your caucus' issues don't matter. That's what Democrats do.

[islandmkl]

8. well said...but one question:

are corn flakes at 7:30 in the morning equal to popcorn??

[zeemike]

10. Nope you need real popcorn

Don't be lazy it only takes a few minutes to get the real thing.
BTW I love that dog picture...is he smiling at the camera?

[NWHarkness]

9. And you thought another STFU thread would help?

This stopped being about Warren a while ago.

It's about posts like the ones on this thread, that disrespect the GLBT members of DU.

Yeah, yeah, you'll all deny it, but none of you could resist piping up about how the gays should pipe down, could you?

[zeemike]

11. Well when a poster calls members here bigots, homophones,

And other insulting comments that violate the spirit of rules then someone needs to tell them to STFU.
It seems to me that some here think they are untouchable because they are "victims"and can say anything and no one dare call them out.

[DRoseDARs]

37. Homophones? Was that intentional?

If it wasn't, you may have inadvertently used it (almost) correctly. Own goal! :thumbsup:

Hint: Their, they're and there are homophones. A rainbow-colored phone is not.

[Hellataz]

47. Here Here! I'm tired of being told who i do or do not support.

It's like they are trying to get us to turn our backs on their cause. If we don't handle this warren issue just as they do, then we're against them? WTF? Well I'm sorry But being discriminated against does not give people the right to go after any and everyone. it makes you no better then the people discriminate against you. I'm a Passionate supporter of GLBT rights and I'm offended by anyone who say otherwise simply because I see Obamas choices in a different light.

[Connie_Corleone]

12. No one on this thread has told anyone to STFU.

Half the posts are about Star Trek pictures. 2 are about popcorn. And the rest talk about supporting and fighting for gay rights.

No one is saying you can't discuss certain issues. Anger towards DU members who support gay rights isn't going to help anything. And you just demonstrated the kind of attitude the OP was talking about by accusing people on this thread of disrespecting GLBT DU members.

[Balderdash]

14. Right...

No disrespect and no one is telling anyone to shut up? LOL Some of you
have been doing it from the start. We'll shut the fuck up when we we're
damned good and ready. Same shit different OP.

[Connie_Corleone]

27. I said THIS thread. I'm not talking about any other thread but this one.

No one on THIS thread is telling you to STFU.

But, go ahead and assume the worst about the rest of us because of some idiots on other threads. Direct your anger at the rest of us who aren't your enemies and who haven't said a damn thing about you shutting up. God forbid if we make a statement about the anger and name calling on the board (from both sides). We might get accused of wanting people to shut up instead of having a meaningful discussion that actually gets something done. It's so much better to turn on each other and call each other names.

:eyes:

[Yes We Did]

31. Every thread is a STFU threat...

didn't you know that?

[Balderdash]

38. This is the first post in this thread or any other like it

where someone is actually talking to me and not at me. You're right, there
are people on both sides of this issue (an issue that should only have one side btw)
that are mean and nasty. I'm sorry if I jumped on you but if you really try and
read what some have said to us about how we need to behave you might better
understand our anger at some on DU.

[ElboRuum]

42. STFU thread?

I don't give a blind flying fart in space whether you pipe down or don't.

[Cheap_Trick]

16. Haven't you figured it out by now?

If you don't share their level of fury, you are against them.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

19. No...

it's called a 'shiv', but someone gets 'shanked'.

Shank you very much BTW.

[ElboRuum]

43. Thank you for the correction. n/t

[complain jane]

20. People worked for/donated to Obama on a level they've never done before.

Some doing so for the first time in their life, others doing it more fervently than they ever have before, believing Obama was Change.

To just get shat on in return the same way you have by all the other politicians who see your issues as nothing more than a political football really is a slap in the face.

[Zuiderelle]

21. Please, by all means, then, continue.

By posting another thread about it that has literally NO substance.

:eyes:

[ElboRuum]

44. It's substantial to me.

That's all I need. Your mileage may vary.

Thank you for your concern. :eyes:

[phleshdef]

22. I hear ya. I'm done with it. I'm ignoring anything Warren related from now on.

Hopefully by the time the inauguration happens, people will find something new to talk about.

[DevonRex]

25. I am, too. And I'm gonna try to ignore the hijackers when they attempt

to turn every thread INTO an Warren thread. That's more difficult for me, though. It just gets SO annoying.

[Raster]

30. This was a warren thread from response number one.

You're tired of 'em? Then don't support them. Don't respond. Don't keep perpetuating the warren threads.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raster]

29. A "marriage" may between a man and a woman in a biblical sense only,

and should not be the case in a civil context. Obama is wrong on gay marriage. He lets his religious leanings influence that decision, which is unfortunate. It points out that Obama is not perfect, as he freely admits.

And the "official" stance at DU is for gay marriage, with a large majority of posters claiming to support gay marriage.

[mkultra]

35. interesting

can you point me to that official indication?

[Raster]

40. Here you go!

Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-20-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #58

72. We expect members to support full and equal rights. That includes gay marriage.

There are large parts of this country where gay marriage is not popular. There are many places in this country where gay marriage would not fly, but civil unions might be an attainable goal. Indeed, in almost every state, civil unions would be a step in the right direction. I don't see why people shouldn't be able to say so, and support efforts to enact civil unions.

But let me be clear: Civil unions are not a substitute for marriage. They are not equal. As a stepping stone to marriage, yes, they are an improvement. But civil unions are not the ultimate goal. Equality is the goal, and we expect everyone here to support that goal. Equality means marriage for gays and straights.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4689492#4689552

[noamnety]

39. Best avoid me then.

Because I'm not going to humor you by claiming you aren't a bigot if you oppose equal rights, much to the dismay of ... the people who oppose equal rights.

[sundog]

41. you believe marriage is between a man and a woman like obama?

sounds like troll logic

[CTyankee]

32. Welcome. I tiptoed into the Lounge a while back and asked for my usual Prosecco.

The Wars will flame out soon. Don't worry.

What will bring us together? Well, I for one think it should be a rallying cry called "No More Prop 8s!"

I am hoping for a good resolution in the CA legislature that will result in voiding Prop 8's results. I am looking for several more state's supreme courts affirming gay marriage rights. I am hoping to see NO MORE voting by the majority on minority rights. By court decision, Period. C'est tout fini.

That, and only that, will be the beginning of the end in this country of the last homophobic legal proscription. Hard line bigots are welcome to move to crazy right wing states if they wish as long as the rest of us have havens of light and rights with enlightened people. This is normal in such times.

Then, and only then, will we be able to reel in the "mushy middle" that haven't given too much thought to the real issues of gay marriage equality. They won't be the problem. The state's decisions will take care of that. I know some of these people and frankly, I don't think they will care that much once it is explained to them by US and they don't have any choice ANYWAY!

We're going to do this. But let me tell you from my long life in political battles: KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE!! Venting is fine, but we gotta move beyond our fights on DU and on to the political battles in the states. Some movement is happening. Let's give it a few shoves politically. Stuff on DU can wait until the important work, where it matters the most, is done...

[marlakay]

48. I just spend less and less time here when it gets bad

and hope it will be over soon.

People get more forceful online then in person.

[Nia Zuri]

51. Ignore is your friend...it has made it MUCH better for me nt

[Phx_Dem]

52. I'm with you. Heading to the bar for some vino.

Save me a seat.