The True Cost of Obama's Pack of Cigarettes...

[ddeclue]

Obama's example is far more powerful than the Surgeon General's warning.

His smoking has real world consequences beyond himself.

It will cause the number of people smoking to rise in this country and indeed around the world.

It will increase the incidence of death and disease related to smoking and the subsequent health insurance costs in an already broken health care system.

The tremendous example he sets of otherwise being a fit President who exercises and watches his weight is otherwise utterly destroyed by his smoking.

He, and for that matter soon to be former President George W. Bush, could really serve to raise people's awareness of physical fitness and its relationship to many of our lifestyle induced health problems in this country and have a significant impact on the cost of health care simply by making an issue of it.

Even President Clinton, who long had a reputation for being overweight, could join in on this issue as someone who very nearly died due to heart disease after being President and who has subsequently lost a lot of weight. The other living Presidents, Carter and Bush Sr. could likewise speak from their own examples of longevity.

There are other politicians of note who could also chime in on the subject of physical fitness like Bill Bradley and John Kerry who set a great example to older Americans of remaining fit and physically active in their older years.

Perhaps this could be made into an hour long TV special with these interviews amongst the these politicians interspersed with those of various athletes like Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan, and others.

It might be something that could run prior to the opening of the next Winter Olympics or before a major national sporting event like the Super Bowl or World Series.

It's great that our President can take off his shirt at the beach without being embarrassed.

It would be better if he could do it without the cigarettes.


Doug D.
Orlando, FL

edited for spelling..and for typing Ford when I meant Poppy Bush... dohh...

[ErinBerin84]

1. well, at least he HAS been trying to quit....

I doubt seeing the president smoke really has an effect on anything. He is trying to quit, but probably slips up every now and then, like plenty of other people I know.

[Lisa0825]

10. If he has a smoke now and then, it should be in private....

and the SS should respect that privacy. I don't think Obama would be so bold as to smoke anywhere in public anymore.

[dflprincess]

215. Sweetie, I smoked for 30 years and I was "trying to quit" for most of those years

It's an expression smokers use either to fool themselves or to get anti-smokers off their backs.

I've been off cigarettes for 15 months now and I'm glad I quit, but I have to admit I have moments when I envy those who are still smoking. If Obama uses an occassional cigarette to relieve some stress, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it.

[ErinBerin84]

224. hey

Don't call me sweetie....sexist.
:) (kidding of course)

Basically, I don't care either way....if he's seriously "trying to quit" (how to you distinguish trying to quit from quitting? Is having a few cigarettes a month breaking the whole quit thing?), good for him. If not, it's his business. But in any case, I really doubt that it will cause a lot of people to smoke.

[Peacetrain]

2. How do you know he is still smoking?

[ddeclue]

18. Most Americans are left with the assumption that he sneaks cigarettes when no one is looking

even if he has somehow quit without telling anyone.

If he has indeed quit, he ought to be very public about it to make sure people know.

Doug D.

[Cha]

34. Yeah, ASSUME... so you have to write a fucking

thread out of an assumption.

[ddeclue]

36. Perception IS reality in politics friend...

sorry if you are so stuck on treating this post as some kind of Obama attack - which it is NOT - that you can't see that I am proposing a POSITIVE thing that Obama could accomplish very quickly without even having to pass a law.

:eyes:

[Mojorabbit]

247. I can't believe anyone

gives a shit if he smokes or not. It is his business and no one else.

[book_worm]

245. Oh, you really know this to be a fact--"most Americans"--really?

[tbyg52]

233. I believe he admitted it to an interviewer recently

Sorry, no link, as it was on TV and I'm on dialup.

[Trajan]

243. A Reuters story: Obama on MTP - Dec 7, 2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE4B61GF20081207

Appearing on NBC's "Meet the Press" program, interviewer Tom Brokaw told Obama he had ducked answering the question during an interview last month with ABC's Barbara Walters.

Noting that the White House was a no-smoking zone, Brokaw asked Obama, "Have you stopped smoking?"

"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly. "What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon."

"Wait a minute," Brokaw interjected, "that means you haven't stopped."

"Fair enough," Obama said. "What I would say is that I have done a terrific job under the circumstances of making myself much healthier. You will not see any violations of these rules in the White House."

Obama was often observed on the presidential campaign trail chewing Nicorette gum, which helps ease the craving for nicotine. He has tried several times to quit.

I share the same characteristics with the PE: Trying to quit smoking, and furiously chewing Nicotine gum in between occasional cheat cigarettes ....

[DJ13]

3. When we assume we have a right to tell others how to live

....freedom is truly lost in this country.

[ChazII]

196. Thank you for your common sense. n/t

[bbgrunt]

230. you are sooooo right, DJ13.

[Trajan]

246. Ok ... Let's play with this a bit ...

When my brother drinks too much beer: Is Freedom truly lost in this country when I tell him he should drive his car ?

When my son wants to ride his snowboard into unmarked ski areas where no one can see him if he get's injured: Is Freedom truly lost in this country when I tell him to stay in marked fields in the ski park ?

When the retired lady who lives downstairs decides to eat lots of sugary candy: Is Freedom truly lost in this country when I tell her she should NOT eat lots of sugary candy, even though she is diabetic and could become very ill if she persists in this behavior ?

Look .... I can do this all day, because your statement is itself fallacious ....

We DO have the 'right' to 'tell others how to live', because 1) We have the ability to speak, and 2) NOBODY lives in such a perfect way that they cannot learn something valuable from somebody else. and 3) We would be remiss if we had a chance to change a negative event, and instead did nothing ...

To think I have been ruining freedom in this country when I tell kids to look both ways before they cross the street ....

Tsk tsk on me .....

[babylonsister]

4. Amazing how all-powerful Obama is.

I admire Obama tremendously, know he works out daily, but so far have not been 'moved' to do likewise. I think you're 'blowing smoke'.

And how will people be emulating him if he never does it in public?

[ErinBerin84]

7. yep.

His choice. And the fact that he has been trying to quit and is honest about the occasional slip up is probably relatable. But either way, his choice.

[ddeclue]

13. He is just about the most admired man on the planet right now...

and to borrow an old Michael Jordan line..everybody wants to be like Obama.

He's got a "cool" factor not seen in an American President at LEAST since Clinton, I would argue since JFK or RFK (as a candidate) that really appeals to younger Americans.

Doug D.

[babylonsister]

19. That doesn't mean they're all going to start smoking. nt

[ddeclue]

22. And McDonalds hires Olympic athletes to hawk Big Macs WHY again?

these people are admired and YES people in the general public follow their example as they will Obama's.

Obama was SO popular as a "brand" that Old Navy was selling knock offs of his Illinois State Senate campaign t-shirt during the Presidential campaign.

Doug D.

[babylonsister]

26. Doug, seems to me your reasoning is flawed. But have at it.

Just for shits and grins, have I missed cigarette commercials with Obama hawking cigarettes in them?

[ddeclue]

32. Here's a quick image Google for you

[babylonsister]

33. So what? That didn't answer my question. Guess you can't or won't.

Because you comparing cigs to McD's is ludicrous. And how old is that pic?

This is the last hit you're getting from me in this thread. I think we all need to worry about more pressing issues than whether PE Obama sneaks an occasional cigarette.

[ddeclue]

41. I DID answer the question with the picture - the public has seen him smoke.

That's really all it takes until he offers them a different image to replace it.

These pictures are all from the campaign so they aren't "ancient history" at all. You may want to believe they are from 1982 but they are from his Presidential campaign.

Doug D.

[tyedyeto]

48. No you did not answer her question.

A picture is NOT an advertisement. You were asked about ads showing Obama smoking. And, so far, have shown us none.

[ddeclue]

58. That's a meaningless distinction - his mere image smoking is a tacit endorsement

unless he says otherwise.

You are being Clintonian and talking about the definition of "is"...

:eyes:

[tyedyeto]

77. That's BS and you know it

The poster in reply 22 asked a simple question and you have failed to provide any advertisement in which Obama endorses smoking.

And as for this statement: "You are being Clintonian and talking about the definition of "is"..." where the fuck do you get off calling me something which has nothing to do with Clinton? My 'is' is very direct: Show me any advertisement in which Obama endorses smoking. If you cannot do that, then your reading skills need improvement as that is what this sub-thread is about.

BTW, do you even know what brand he smokes when he has his occasional cigarette? I think not, since he doesn't appear in any ads.

[ddeclue]

81. Spare me your hysterics..It's NOT BS and YOU know it.

Do you know what "product placement" is?

Manufacturers pay a fortune to Hollywood movie producers to get their products featured in movies with popular movie stars, yet these stars aren't saying "I drive a Ford and it's my favorite car". Product placement occurs in every thing from cars to computers to airlines to clothing. Do you think these advertisers don't know what they're doing?

There's no real difference between product placement advertising and a celebrity incidentally being seen to use a product.

:eyes:

[tyedyeto]

83. Since you will not answer a simple question..... Good-bye

[ddeclue]

86. Since you will not admit you're wrong because I won't jump through your hoop for you: BYE BYE..

:eyes:

[anigbrowl]

166. It is BS. What do you want him to do, cenor all ld pictures of him with a cigarette?

He used to smoke. He either quit or rarely does so any more. What do you want, daily lung x-rays?

[ddeclue]

172. No just a high profile commitment to quit..a new year's resolution if you will.

that would make me very happy.

[LanternWaste]

226. Yet it begs the question-- why single out only smoking?

I suppose that in addition to your hope that he advertises a commitment to quit smoking, you also hopes he publicly advertises a commitment to quit any and all human foibles, shortcomings, addictions, and bad habits, yes?

Yet it begs the question-- why single out only smoking? Why not also mention and defend with the same vociferousness you apply to nicotine to his intake of sweets (of which, there's a photo from People mag last spring showing him eating a candy bar-- a tacit endorsement if we apply your standards to a feeble and poorly thought out diet)?

A public denunciations of unhealthy foods? An illustrative and vocal denial of American's watching too much TV or playing video games for 12 hours day? An extreme defense of visiting one's dentist at least twice a year?


Hysterics? Yes-- hysterics a plenty seem to be appearing from all sides...

[Drunken Irishman]

220. So, there is pictures of Obama eating unhealthy food.

Does that mean he's promoting unfit lifestyles and advertising for fat filled cheese burgers?

Is he now to blame for the obesity rate in this country?

[rasputin1952]

66. Have you ever tried to smoke a Big-mac? Man...it's

really hard to light...:D

[ddeclue]

68. DUZY!

[Undercurrent]

39. The first one looks photo shopped.

As for the second one. It's now bad for the President to hold a pen? Or is wearing a cowboy hat offensive to you? I think it he looks very handsome in that hat.

[ddeclue]

42. Neither is from a freeper site, one is from a pro Obama site

both came up with a search for "Obama smoking"...so it looked like a cig to me and apparently to whoever posted the picture with Google.

WHY is what I'm saying so controversial and WHY do DU'ers feel a "need" to "defend" Obama instead of treating this like the POSITIVE opportunity it really is?

:eyes:

[ErinBerin84]

47. Christ,

we heard about it on a blog post from Jake Tapper when he suspected that Obama "smelled like smoke" or some shit. And then we all heard about it the other day when someone asked him in an interview, and he says that he has been "very good" in general, etc. The press hitches such a fit whenever the topic comes up that I'm sure we would see those pictures other than in places than "obama sites" if it's true. And even if they are real pictures, is some kid really looking through Obama sites and thinking "Hmmm....Obama is smoking. Good idea!" Didn't you say that the general perception before is that he quit, but it was never confirmed? Is some kid going to read Obama's book and think "Hmmm...Obama once did coke. He has since said it is wrong, but he became president so it's probably ok." I'm not following your logic.

[ddeclue]

50. No I said the general impression is that he sneaks cigarettes from time to time -

NOT that he quit..

He may be trying to quit but he really ought to make it a very public thing so that people know for certain. The last impression most people - including me - have is that the man smokes.

[ErinBerin84]

53. I have seen many references to him quitting or trying to quit

so I guess I don't know what the general impression is, but I don't know if many others give much thought to it. Honestly, I think smoking is horrible, but I just think you overestimate the impact that his sneaking one every now and then has.

[ddeclue]

57. Well I'm saying FINE - SAY SO - say I've quit or I haven't had a cig in a month or 3 months

or however long its been and make a point about it as Obama Post Smoker... and make it into a positive thing.

Doug D.

[ErinBerin84]

60. he HAS

made statements about his effort to quit smoking in the past , and Michelle's pressures for him to quit smoking. I understand your point, but since it is apparently still a struggle for him, maybe he doesn't want to put himself on a soap box. I know the press will be obsessing over it for the next few years though, so I'm sure they'll keep us updated.

[ddeclue]

62. As Yoda said: DO or DO NOT - there is no "try"...

Trying don't mean anything - doing does.

[Blue_In_AK]

217. Everybody has bad habits.

We cannot and should not expect perfection from Mr. Obama. He's got a lot on his plate right now. If one of his ways of relaxing is to have a smoke now and again, I don't see the harm.

Once again, he CAN'T be perfect.

[Undercurrent]

124. I have no need to defend Obama about smoking.

It's not my personal business. (If it were public policy it would be a different matter.)

[Undercurrent]

127. I have no need to defend Obama about smoking.

It's not my personal business. (If this were a question of public policy that would be entirely different.)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

56. Those are very crappy Photoshops.

I can't believe you fell for those.

[ddeclue]

59. On a PRO- Obama site? What they airbrushed a cigarette in on a PRO Obama site?

:eyes:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

71. Look what else I found on a pro-Obama site:

I suppose Obama really said that, right? :eyes:

[ddeclue]

85. What a silly response that disproves nothing..

[Starbucks Anarchist]

182. Then I'll explain it to you another way.

In the first pic, no smoke is visible, despite the "cigarettes" being "lit." Also, since when are ANY politicians photographed smoking when the camera is clearly within a few feet of them?

Oh, and the second pic isn't even a cigarette. If you look closely, it's a PEN. :eyes:

[blogslut]

70. What a lousy photoshop

Where's the smoke? And oh, the second photo is Obama holding a pen.

Seriously. Stupidest post of the day.

[firedupdem]

74. That picture is photo shopped....n/t

[CLANG]

76. Both obviously photoshopped

[ddeclue]

88. So Texans For Obama shopped an anti Obama picture???

:crazy:

Please explain THAT...

PWNED

[blogslut]

93. Now, you're just being a deliberate fool

In the cowboy hat photo, he is holding a pen.

And as stated, the other photo is a crummy photoshop and it comes from some university student's free web storage space. Yours perhaps?

This OP is full of attention-seeking.

[ddeclue]

101. Quit baiting me and trying to smear the messenger...

1) NEITHER photo is from my website - www.demsouth.com NOR did I have any hand in them.

2) It is NOT clear to me that he is holding a pen in the Texans for Obama pic and it came up in response to an Obama smoking image google so clearly I'm not the only one who thinks he's holding a cigarette there.

I LOVE your paranoid defense of Barack Obama when no attack has even been made...

:crazy:

[blogslut]

105. It's not my fault you can't tell the difference between a sharpie and a cigarette

Nor is it my fault you are unable to tell when an image has been photoshopped.

You made a ridiculous assumption in your original message and then you used false images in order to back up your extremely weak argument.

If anything, the fact that Barack Obama is quitting smoking (a fact you conveniently underplay) will probably encourage people to also stop smoking.

But I think none of the facts matter to you. I think you crave discourse and attention. You've made several silly, yet inflammatory posts recently and I can see no reason for it other than you enjoy people "ganging up" on you.

[ddeclue]

110. BLAH BLAH BLAH... all you are interested in doing is defending Obama

blindly without any other considerations - and there are plenty like you who feel that they are contributing to the world by rushing to Obama's "defense" even when he hasn't even been attacked.

:eyes:

I made NO ridiculous assumptions and YOU haven't established that either photo is shopped or that he is holding "a Sharpie". Are you denying that Obama has ever smoked? It is a reasonable assumption that if he has smoked he has been seen holding a cigarette. It is NOT reasonable to assume otherwise.

I am asking OBAMA not to "underplay" the quitting smoking - not underplaying it myself. If he's quitting then why not just QUIT and be PUBLIC about it?

[blogslut]

121. The delusion is strong in you

How does pointing out that your argument is ridiculous equal "blind defense"?

Your argument is that millions of people will take up smoking because Barack Obama has smoked. That is ridiculous.

As for the images, I don't have to prove anything because the images prove everything. Apparently you don't know anything about smoking or you could discern between a sharpie and a cigarette. If you knew anything about smoking, you would immediately notice the lack of smoke emanating from the photoshopped image.

Barack Obama has very publicly stated that he is a smoker, trying to quit. Once again, it is not my fault that you are uninformed on this quite public bit of information.

Nevertheless, I am done with this inane thread. I don't like conversing with people who make flames just to see how much bandwidth they can burn.

[ddeclue]

135. Not all cigarettes are LIT....they don't come out of the box LIT..

:crazy:

indeed people are often known to HOLD cigarettes prior to lighting them and some people hold them as a substitute for smoking them to give themselves something to do with their hands.

:crazy:

It wouldn't be unheard of for him to be HOLDING an unlit cigarette.

and YES you ARE engaged in a blind "defense" of someone whom I wasn't EVEN attacking...

:eyes:

[CLANG]

97. If it is a cig it is photoshopped. If it is a pen, then probably not.

No matter, you still haven't produced a picture of him smoking in public.

[ddeclue]

102. No you're right - I've produced TWO..nt

[tammywammy]

109. You've produced none, the first is a photoshop and the second is a Sharpie n/t

[ddeclue]

113. Of course..when pictures disprove your point you claim they're "shopped"...

or misinterpreted...

:eyes:

[tammywammy]

128. So he has that amazing new cigarette that doesn't produce smoke? n/t

[ddeclue]

144. Yeah..it's called NOT LIT YET... PWNED... nt

[mt13]

155. but...

the cigarette in his mouth IS LIT. it has an ash at the end of it. so there should be a thin curl of smoke rising up from it.

the 2nd photo is most definitely a Sharpie.

as a graphic artist, i say the top photo is most definitely PhotoShopped.

and the 2nd photo is an original not a PhotoShopped image as evidenced by looking at the file info.

[tammywammy]

157. Except it has ash on the end of it.

Here I circled the ash for you





:eyes:

[ddeclue]

160. OK so what... cigarettes don't visibly smoke at all times...

it's just your assumption that the cigarette would have to "smoke"....

[tammywammy]

163. So you admit it's a lit cigarette

Now, this not visibly smoking cigarette phenomenon, can you expand on that more? As someone that's been smoking for years, I have yet to see that actually happen.

Let's also tackle your second photo of proof

Here's what a Sharpie marker looks like:



Here's him holding the Sharpie:

[ddeclue]

169. Only if YOU admit it's a cigarette first...

and as for it being "a Sharpie" I don't see anything that you've circled that would indicate that it IS a sharpie to me.. looks like a cigarette to me.

[tammywammy]

175. Notice the second picture I posted

It grey and rounded tipped exactly like a Sharpie. The first picture even has writing on the side of it, just like a Sharpie does.

Why the hell would Obama walk into a crowd at a rally in Austin with 25,000+ people holding a freaking cigarette? Doesn't it make much more sense that he's in the crowd, I dunno, signing autographs?

[ddeclue]

178. I don't see that it is distinguishably a marker...still looks like a cigarette to me

perhaps he shouldn't carry markers into crowds if they could be confused for cigarettes and he insists on smoking.

:eyes:

[tammywammy]

180. Wait, here's yet another photo with him and the Sharpie

[ErinBerin84]

195. good find

Though, it COULD just be that someone photoshopped a sharpie OVER his cigarette!


:rofl:

[Muttocracy]

198. :) that's a funny way to hold a large gray cigarette with writing on it... nt

[ddeclue]

204. OK FINE THAT DOES look like a sharpie...

Doesn't change the premise of the OP at all though and this sub-thread has just been about trying to divert and hijack the thread into minutiae instead of the bigger picture.

Obama is quitTING - he hasn't QUIT as far as anyone knows.

You can jump up and down and get all indignant over an imagined attack on him or you can choose to see a positive opportunity that I outlined in the OP.

:eyes:

[tammywammy]

208. Have you ever known someone that just quit cigarettes?

If you've never known someone trying to quit smoking you obviously cannot understand how hard it is. People are going to slip in the first few months after quitting. It's almost never just stopping one day and you're done forever. He's said he's slipped a few times, that means he's quit.

BTW, don't call a Sharpie a cigarette and no one will call you on it.

[ddeclue]

209. Didn't have the other pic...looked like a cig to me in the first pic.

[JTFrog]

234. No one can be that much of an idiot by accident. You really gotta try hard.

Is that a big "L" in the middle of your forehead?

[mt13]

164. yes...

they do.

[CLANG]

171. You've already PWNED yourself thoroughly

[ddeclue]

173. No people DEFENDING smoking here have done that to themselves..

:eyes:

[Drunken Irishman]

221. Here is the original...

You can clearly tell it's a pen.

[ellisonz]

78. THOSE ARE FUCKING PHOTOSHOPPED IMAGES PROBABLY FROM SOME FREEPERS BASEMENT!!!

In the top image the postures are all wrong. If anybody tried to smoke like that they would hack hack hack. The bottom image actually looks like a sharpie.

[tammywammy]

108. The first is a photoshop and the second he's holding a Sharpie

If you gonna post up bogus photos of Obama smoking as your proof, at least go with him as Marlboro Man

[Muttocracy]

114. posted my reply before I saw yours - but glad I'm not crazy! nt

[Muttocracy]

111. uh, isn't that a Sharpie for signing autographs in the lower picture? nt

[Muttocracy]

122. this is a Sharpie - rounded tip, light gray, black words and logo:

[hileeopnyn8d]

143. LOL!

He really should try to quit smoking those Sharpies, all the chemicals in that permanent ink can't be good for you.

[Muttocracy]

167. And oh dear God, Biden is a Sharpie user too:

:cry:

[ddeclue]

174. Not at all the same - this CLEARLY has a BLUE cap on the end and he's signing a poster with it.

Can't say the same for the picture I provided.

Try again..

[Muttocracy]

190. have you ever used a Sharpie? The cap fits on the top so you don't lose it. nt

[ddeclue]

201. Uh DUH...that's not a meaningful point...

of course the cap fits on the end.. The point is that it is CLEAR that there is a cap on the end and it is CLEAR that this is a marker because it is CLEARLY being used to sign something. That contrasts with the other picture where NONE of this is clear.

[Muttocracy]

202. you still haven't responded to this photo from another poster:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8040637&mesg_id=8041330

[Uzybone]

205. A photoshop at that

this is a dumb thread. Those cigs are not part of the original photo.

[progressoid]

229. Here's George Bush smoking too

(the young people call this Photoshopping)

[firedupdem]

21. so his "cool" factor will make people smoke but not help people

that want to quit? Jeez...

[ddeclue]

25. I think his cool factor will make them do what ever HE does and whatever HE tells them to do.

If HE quits, THEY quit.

If He smokes, THEY smoke.

It works both ways.

[firedupdem]

28. It's not his responsibility...but let's go with he quit or is quitting so they quit..

No need to say he's going to cause in increase in smoking....let's say he'll cause a decrease.

[ddeclue]

35. I'm saying they WILL quit if he quits and makes a big deal about it..

This is NOT Obama bashing.

This is a chance for Obama to do something POSITIVE that will take very little effort (in terms of there is no legislation involved) that will have a significant impact on the overall health of Americans.

It's not JUST about smoking, my idea is to try to have him (AND other politicians, athletes, actors, musicians, etc.) push a publicity campaign for physical fitness, diet, exercise, quitting smoking, drugs (including prescription) and drinking in moderation only. It's NOT about laws banning any of these things - prohibition doesn't work anyways - it's about educating and inspiring the public to choose a better healthier lifestyle.

Doug D.

[Kalyke]

82. I don't want to be like Obama.

I'm a white female. I'm happy with my coolness and my family.

Sorry - your assumption is a misnomer.

[ddeclue]

92. better watch out sayin' things like that 'round these parts..

or the Obama defenders will pile on..

:)

[Schema Thing]

55. He's magic!

[Saturday]

5. Gerald Ford won't be helping, he's dead. nt

[ddeclue]

14. Ya got me... DOH...

that was just my fingers getting ahead of my brain...I meant Poppy Bush of course...

that said, the proposed video I'm talking about could be shot at the Gerald Ford Presidential Library and some mention could be made that he was a College All American who had offers to play for Green Bay and who was a lifetime athlete who skied and swam.

Doug D.

[NYC_SKP]

6. If a fresh dialogue begins as a result, and he quits...

Both would be a good thing.

I'd like, for starters, for the consumer product safely commission to get all the chemicals out of cigarettes if they are going to continue to be legal, or at least require labeling.

And while we're at it we could discuss the less-regulated-than-before alcohol industry.

Second-hand drinking effects are much under-discussed, IMO.

:smoke: or :toast: or :donut: as the case may be.

[CLANG]

8. I think the fact that he is trying to quit sets a good example

It's not as easy as snapping your fingers.

[yurbud]

9. it probably won't kill him within the next eight years. Beyond that, it's between him & his family

when will we grow up and stop expecting pols to be role models and just expect them to actually do their jobs well, which seems to be close to out of reach for most of them anyway.

[ddeclue]

20. I would argue that it is ridiculous to NOT expect politicians to be role models.

They TRADE on the public's favorable personal impression of them for votes.

When is the last time that a politician said "don't pay any attention to my personal life, my hobbies, my family, and my life story - just for me because of my proposed policies..."

:eyes:

Even if you can find one... when is the last time someone WON on that strategy?

Doug D.

[yurbud]

199. its stupid to run on that, and stupider to judge candidates on that

I like Obama's up from middle class story, but that isn't what will make him a good or great president. Nixon and Reagan were middle class too.

Our best presidents, FDR & Lincoln, came from opposite ends of the class spectrum. FDR cheated on his wife. There is no record of Lincoln doing so.

Likewise of the presidents we know who did or didn't cheat on their wives, there is no correlation with their job performance.

People seemed to like Kennedy even though he was not only an adulterer but by todays standards, a drug addict.

Be a role model to yur own kids. Expecting politicians to be role models is as stupid as expecting jocks to be.

[ddeclue]

200. May be "stupid" but welcome to election politics 101...

I've worked on enough campaigns to know it's the candidates STORY not their policies that gets them elected.

The trick is to find a candidate whose policies you like who has a good story to sell also.

Doug D.

[yurbud]

249. yep--Obama's stories are great and hopefully his policies match. My point was that...

as individuals, we should try to cut through the bullshit and figure out what they are going to do in office.

McCain's POW story was pretty good, but that wouldn't have made him a good president anymore than it would have made Adm. Stockdale one.

[firedupdem]

11. Parents should be the greatest example for their children...

He didn't have a cigarette hanging out of his mouth on any picture that I've seen that wasn't photo shopped. While you have a great point about the dangers of smoking...saying that Obama will entice people to smoke is a bit crazy.

How do any of us know if he's smoking anyway?

[louis-t]

12. I'm sorry, no one smokes because Obama does.

That's like saying kids think it's OK to have sex 'cause Clinton did it. I call a huge 'BS'.

[CLANG]

15. Yeah, the pugs were telling us our 4 and 5 year olds

would start having oral sex in preschool because of Clinton.

[ddeclue]

17. Of COURSE people will..

do you think McDonalds would waste millions of dollars getting the Olympic athletes (Williams sisters for instance) to endorse their junk food products if they didn't think it would result in higher sales?

:eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

16. Has he smoked lately? Do we really know for sure, when and where?

Or are you opining after making liberal assumptions based on not too much?

Perhaps his quitting smoking, which appears to be what he is doing
will help others quit.
Ever thought of that?

Look...there's enough real problems in this world,
without having to make shit up.....I'd say! :eyes:

[ddeclue]

30. We don't know anything other than he sneaks smokes last I've heard.

If he's quit, it would be best to say so publicly.

As for being a "real" problem, more people die from smoking every year than automobile accidents and gunshot wounds combined. Smoking in terms of death and disease is several orders of magnitude more "real" than terrorism on which we've spent a trillion dollars in the last 8 years.

All I'm asking for is for a little free public example and some publicity for the issue. You ask like I'm asking for Obama to do something impossible.

[kwenu]

Do we get a nice piece of cheese with this?

[ddeclue]

43. No but you can have a piece of fruit...

it's better for you.

[Jamastiene]

23. This is going to be interesting.

:popcorn:

[FirstLight]

24. jesus christ, how stupid and insignificant...

can we find ONE MORE THING to pick on Obama for?

If he has a smoke from time to time, whatever
I smoke ocasionally, and am trying to quit, too
but stress is stress
and it helps sometimes

do you think this man has no stress?
get a grip

If people start smoking because they think Obama is cool, then they deserve to die from sheer stupidity

threads like this piss me off, because there are REAL issues out there and this is NOT one of them
President Obama is a big boy and can handle hiumslef
get off his back and MYOB

[ddeclue]

46. Oh Dear God..why is everybody an "Obama defender" first and a believer in what is best second?

I did NOT formulate this post as an "attack" on Obama but rather a positive opportunity for Obama to do something with TANGIBLE results for very little effort - certainly not requiring any legislation...

:eyes:

[Clio the Leo]

27. I might start.....

.... IF I saw any proof that he had fallen off of the wagon.

I think Barack knows full well that any threats to his health by smoking are FAR outweighed by the physical threat to his hind-end offered by Michelle if he doesn't continue in his current non-smoking effort. ;)

[AndyTiedye]

94. He Will Have the Most Stressful Job in the Country

It would be better if he is not dealing with nicotine withdrawal
while he is traying to sort out the mess in Gaza, or the one in Iraq,
or the one in Afghanistan, or the one developing between Pakistan and India, or...

[Clio the Leo]

170. Then it's a good thing he decided to stop two years ago...

.... before the campaign started and not just before he entered office. ;)

[niyad]

29. of all the things I don't care about, the fact that obama smokes ranks right down there.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

If he can fix Bush's mess, he can smoke a blunt in the White House.

[ellisonz]

80. Fuckin right.

[BlooInBloo]

31. If you had only waited a few days, you could have been in the running...

for Stupidest Post Of 2009.

[ddeclue]

63. Thanks for NOT saying anything important by way of rebuttal..

Smoking kills over 100,000 Americans a year.

:eyes:

[rasputin1952]

72. Not trying to sound like a jerk...

but the stuff that goes into food and water does far more damage than smoking. When one adds drunk drivers, tired drivers, medications, pollution...smoking pales in comparison.

I know about smoking, I've been a smoker for many a year, it is as difficult to quit as water is difficult to quit. No joke, and I have a lot of respect for those who who do it. But really, this is pretty much a moot issue, I don't think there will be a spike in new smokers because of Obama, if he has a beer, will there be a sudden increase in alcoholics?

[ddeclue]

100. You really think that the President of the United States couldn't quit smoking?

with all the support that would be available to HIM to do so?

Do you really think that anyone with all the drive and ambition and discipline of a Barack Obama (or ANY President for that matter) would be unable to discipline himself to quit smoking?

Obama ALREADY has shown a precedent that he CAN given that he says in his book that he stopped experimenting with drugs and buckled down and studied hard his last two years of undergraduate at Columbia. I KNOW he can do it - he's already done something similar once in his life.

Are you arguing also that George W. Bush could give up drinking but Obama can't quit smoking?

Don't you think that if W had started drinking in the White House and became the drunk in chief that it wouldn't give people license to drink more?

I give Obama more credit than Bush - don't you?

Finally I don't buy your equivocation argument that just because Big Macs are bad for you that we can therefore ignore cigarettes as a health issue. Two wrongs don't make a right. I would want to see (as I said in my OP) a whole TV show dedicated to the issues of health in this country - NOT just cigarettes. I would view the cigarettes portion as a central theme of such a show but by NO means the only topic.

Doug D.

[rasputin1952]

107. I have seen smokers become the "new" parriah...

All I'm saying is that it is an exceptionally difficult addiction to break.

Throughout this nation, smokers have become the new "subhuman" class, even when they smoke in their own homes or outside.

Understand as well, I am not advocating that people smoke, but if they do, and it affects no one else, what's the big deal? I've been accosted by anti-smokers in a field at a park, they walked 40 feet to come over and tell me they were being affected by my habit...we were outside and they were upwind! A meteor had a better chance of harming them than I did!

You see this as an issue, I don't...that is fine by me, i won't stop you from voicing your opinion, but I don't think there will be a sudden spike in tobacco use because Obama has a smoke.

The recent increase in diabetes can be directly linked to high fructose corn syrup...that is one heck of a problem too, and it's going to get a lot worse, tobacco use is actually going down.

[ddeclue]

116. If Obama the private citizen smoked... not a big deal in the scheme of things..

I think it's different for Obama the President of the United States.

Tobacco use HAS been going down.

The question is will it CONTINUE to do so with a President who smokes?

As far as I know Obama will be the first President who has smoked since Lyndon Johnson. (Does anyone know if Nixon smoked???) Every President since then has NOT smoked and it is hard in my mind to have a Surgeon General saying "smoking is bad for you" at the same time you have a President lighting one up.

Consistent message is very important to effective message.

[PassingFair]

37. Is there a way to negatively recommend a post.

Or "ghost un-kick" one?

[ZombieHorde]

38. Addictions can be tricky for many, this is why we call them addictions, as opposed to habits.

I agree with the basic premise of your OP, but it may be very difficult for him.

[Two Americas]

40. he is reaching out

He is the president for ALL Americans, and that includes smokers whether you like it or not.

It is just a symbolic gesture, it is not as though he has appointed any pro-tobacco people to positions where they will be setting policy or anything.

He is not perfect, and never claimed to be.

Can we give him a chance? He hasn't even smoked in the White House yet. Get a grip people.

We are all opposed to smoking here, and Obama has made his position clear. I think we need to get over it and move on.

Why the endless threads about this? People are just trying to tear Obama down. We have much more important things to focus on. Venting your anger on this subject, and pushing your pet cause at the expense of other causes is divisive and negative.

[BlooInBloo]

44. "We are all opposed to smoking here" - speak for yourself.

[Two Americas]

49. oh yeah?

Are you trying to tear down Democrats?

[ddeclue]

54. This reply is ridiculous...

1) What "endless" posts on this subject? Apparently you aren't following along here at DU.. the endless posts have been on Clinton as SoS, Caroline in the Senate, Blago, and lately Warren.. I don't recall any large number of posts on this subject.

2) I'm NOT attacking the man! Oh my God! Every time someone says the slightest thing about Obama the Obama "defenders" have to show up to defend the man from imaginary slights.

This is a proposal for him to do a POSITIVE thing that will help HIM, help America and NOT require a lot of political effort.

:eyes:

[Two Americas]

87. oh well

I guess it really is true that one should always use the sarcasm thingie.

[gravity]

45. Obama's image doesn't include smoking

I really don't think that Obama sneaking off a smoke is going to make a difference unless he is in front of cameras and reporters.

[RufusEarl]

51. You know, i've never seen him smoke a cigarette......

Peace!

[Christian30]

52. This is fucking ridiculous

After 8 years of Chimpy McCokeSpoon, you're worried that Obama might lead to an increase in smoking??? Our economy is collapsing, the Middle East is in flames, and famine is so great in some parts of Africa that people are looking through cow turds for undigested corn kernels, and you're worried about whether or not the president-elect MIGHT be smoking in private, while TRYING to quit???

There are no words for how ludicrous the OP is...

[ddeclue]

67. 100,000+ Americans die every year from smoking

millions become disabled by it.

Yet somehow it's "irrelevant"...

the only thing that is ludicrous is your contempt for those who suffer from the results of a lifetime of smoking addiction...

:eyes:

[Christian30]

73. I'm a smoker

First of all, it's a choice - unlike poverty, the economic crisis or mass starvation. Second of all, while smoking does do damage to one's health, it's not even the biggest health problem facing Americans - obesity is. Only 20% of Americans smoke, while nearly 2/3 are overweight. So in the specious realm of your argument, Obama's commitment to exercise could do more good by inspiring physical fitness than his smoking would cause damage by inspiring more smokers.

[ddeclue]

106. And if you'd read the OP carefully, I credit him for his otherwise good fitness

and say he could do great good with it but needs to deal with the smoking too.

It sends an inconsistent message to exercise and diet but then smoke. Indeed one might even argue that it makes smoking seem healthy and/or acceptable.

I did NOT argue that smoking is the ONLY "lifestyle" health issue facing Americans and indeed pointed out that it could ALSO be addressed in the TV program that I suggested. Other politicians - Bill Clinton and Mike Huckabee for instance have faced weight problems and diet issues.

[Two Americas]

214. no they don't

100,000+ Americans do not die every year from smoking.

There are marginally higher disease rates associated with smoking. That is all.

The death rate for non-smokers is 100%. That means that every year tens of thousands die from not smoking, I guess.

[gollygee]

61. It's a really difficult addiction to get past, and he's trying

No, he isn't perfect. But this is silly. He isn't doing anything illegal, and you could just as easily argue that his attempt to quit could inspire other smokers to quit.

[ddeclue]

64. That is EXACTLY what I am arguing - he should quit - it should be PUBLCI

so that he would inspire as many as possible to quit.

Yet I am bashed here at DU as an "Obama basher" for brining it up...

:eyes:

[gollygee]

69. Why are you arguing for something I've read he's trying to do anyway?

You're demanding something that he's already working on. I don't see what motivation there is for that.

[ddeclue]

95. He's keeping it a secret...it should be something high profile he does

is my point and he should just "try" - he should do it.

I don't buy the apologist argument being put forth here that quitting smoking is SO hard that Obama can't do it or otherwise shouldn't risk guaranteeing he can do it.

I give the man a hell of a lot more credit than that.

I KNOW Obama CAN do it so he OUGHT to do it and do it in a PUBLIC way so people know about it.

That's my point folks.

[gollygee]

103. You don't buy the argument?

You must not know many people who have quit smoking, or who have tried and failed. I've seen people quit easily, and I've seen people try and struggle, and try and struggle, over and over again. It isn't related to how strong someone is, or smart, or anything like that. It's how your body handles addiction. It isn't an "apologist argument." It's reality. And it's about something that isn't as big an issue as you're making it out to be.

[ddeclue]

117. It's not about strong or smart - it's about WILLPOWER and DISCIPLINE.

and anyone who can make it to the Oval Office has those qualities in abundance - Obama has demonstrated those qualities in abundance throughout his life so I'm sure he could apply them to quitting smoking as well.

Doug D.

[gollygee]

139. There are phisiological issues involved too

Willpower and discipline are strengths. He has the character strengths, I agree, but that doesn't guarantee that it will be something he can do easily. It could take him a long time, and it could involve quite a few attempts, and I don't see how doing that so publicly is going to make it easier.

[ddeclue]

154. I think people with his high achiever type personality thrive on this kind of challenge.

Yes there are physiological factors as well but I think that he would have access to more support on this issue than anyone in the entire world as President.

Doug D.

[Muttocracy]

118. he's not keeping his past a secret - he's been public about trying to quit!

He's talked or written publicly about earlier use of other drugs, currently quitting smoking, chewing Nicorette, etc.

He's probably inspiring thousands of people to try to quit for New Year's too.

[ddeclue]

129. I'm not claiming he's kept his past "a secret"...

the problem is that he's keeping the quitting "a secret" as far as I can tell..

It's NOT something he's brought up in any big TV interviews I've seen lately.

Perhaps he ought to use it for his weekly address this week as a "New Year's resolution" then and take the publicity up a notch or two??

[Muttocracy]

132. How about Meet the Press Dec 7, 2008? Is that big and recent enough?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/28098295#28098295

[ddeclue]

136. NO... 60 Minutes might be.. the evening news might be...

only political junkies like you and me watch the Sunday morning shows and hey I didn't even see THAT episode and I watch the Sunday shows.

Doug D.

[gollygee]

142. This is complete bullshit now

Come on. He talked about it on a major news show and you say that's not enough to call it not "keeping it a secret." That's just silly.

[ddeclue]

146. It's NOT a major news show to ordinary Americans - just political junkies like you and me...

The people he most needs to reach on this issue aren't watching the Sunday morning shows.

How hard is that to get.

[gollygee]

150. If it were so interesting, all those other shows would have picked up on it

But it isn't particularly important or interesting.

[ddeclue]

156. What is "interesting" is what ever Obama wants to MAKE "interesting"..

He has a huge approval rating and if he saw fit to make this high profile, the news media would oblige him. If he chooses to keep it low profile they will keep it low profile just as easily.

Doug D.

[gollygee]

228. Someone should have told Bill Clinton that

I doubt he was aware he had the ability to keep news stories low profile. I bet he would have liked that.

:eyes:

[donco6]

115. I disagree, truly.

As a smoker who has tried and failed many times, it's just too difficult to make it a public struggle. You fail one time and people are all over your case about it. It just adds to the stress of it all.

I couldn't quit cold turkey - some can; I couldn't. I sort of "dwindled" down until I just didn't do it anymore. I think every person's path is different, and we need to back WAY OFF on this, if we really want him to be successful.

[ddeclue]

133. Well I am willing to give him the kind of credit that I guess his "defenders" here are not.

I have the confidence that he can do this.

People who run for President spend 3 years of their lives traveling like a rock band, sleeping 4 hours a night and putting up with a ton of crap from the press and the public and their opposition - I've seen it up close and I know that this kind of person can do ANYTHING they set their mind to.

Clearly people do sometimes fail - my early support this time was for Edwards for whom I helped organize in Florida - and clearly he got caught with his zipper down as any number of other politicians have but I still believe that Obama would not fail at quitting smoking if he wanted to be highly public about it


Doug D.

[anigbrowl]

159. There's like 2 or 3 pictures of him with a cigarette and they're both old

I don't think think this is a particularly big issue.

[mucifer]

65. you know what? He's going to be the most powerful man in the free world and he's

going to be doing it during the second great depression AND he is daily getting more death threats than any other president. I just hope he keeps exercising. I hope he can stay healthy. It would be nice if he quit. But, I don't think it's realistic.

[phleshdef]

75. Even if Obama still has a cig, it isn't all that often and he is one fit, healthy dude...

He is setting a very healthy example for the country. Seriously, this is really childish.

[ddeclue]

141. Except for his lungs and his arteries and his heart...

cigarettes are very bad for all of these.

Otherwise - yes I wish I was in his shape except for the cigarettes.

The problem though is that his looking fit leads people to mistakenly associate cigarettes with health - a la those cigarette ads which used to say "more doctors smoke brand x"...

It's a mixed message, not a consistent one.

Doug D.

[gollygee]

145. With an emphasis on HIS.

Maybe he should eat a bunch of junk food and gain some weight so he doesn't send a mixed message?

This thread is almost trolling at this point.

[ddeclue]

149. Wouldn't it be BETTER if he very publicly gave up smoking INSTEAD?

Yes they are HIS lungs but HE, whether he wants to or not, sets a very public example.

[gollygee]

151. He is trying to quit

And he doesn't have to do that publicly if he doesn't want to. He doesn't have to at all. I'd guess that he'd do it for his daughters before he'd do it for anyone else. But it is up to him whether he quits, what time table it takes, how he does it, and how public it is.

You seem completely out of touch with how hard quitting is for a lot of people, too.

[ddeclue]

158. No he doesn't HAVE to... I'm saying that he would do WELL to do so though.

and NO as I said, I may not know about quitting smoking but I find it very difficult to lose weight so I think I know something about it. I'd like to drop 30 pounds and THAT is what I'm going to try to do this year.

[phleshdef]

227. A lot of people smoke and never get cancer, emphysema or heart problems and a lot do.

And many people get sick from not eating right and not keeping themselves in shape.

If you aren't a bastion of perfect healthy lifestyle yourself, then you need too point your finger right up your ass and shut up about a guy having an occassional cig.

[Kalyke]

79. And it's none of our business.

People in Europe smoke at higher rates than we do and, because of their diet and exercise, do not have near the level of side effects.

I find the hysteria over smoking, frankly, inane and over the top. Is it bad for you? Yes. Is it the end-all health risk of all time - no (even though paid researchers keep telling you that EVERYTHING, including diarrhea and the ugly is linked to it - again... over the top). I think the crap that's in our food is far more awful. I think our sedentary lifestyle is a sin. I think high-fructose corn-syrup should be banned.

[Two Americas]

91. stress

No one wants to talk about the effects of stress on health - stress from worrying about losing your job, your home, your health, stress from living in a society that values the bullies and predators among us and rewards them lavishly, stress from struggling to make a living, working in abominable jobs, from being a target for relentless marketing, stress from the authoritarianism and the constant threat from law enforcement and other authorities.

All if that runs our lives, dominates everything, destroys any possible quality of life. What use is it to have a personal regimen of healthy living in that context?

Focusing on personal habits and "choices" while ignoring social conditions reinforces the right wing view and cripples the Left. It is a way to avoid looking at the real problems, and it divides and isolates us.

[road2000]

84. Why don't you just recruit Mike Huckabee

for your fierce and godly crusade?

[ddeclue]

89. Neither "fierce" NOR "godly"... I was hoping for "friendly" and "inspiring"..

the only thing that has been "fierce" is all the ganging up on me in defense of Obama from yet another imagined slight...

Oh and thanks good point about Huckabee, I forgot about Huckabee and his losing all the weight...I don't have to agree with his politics to admire his weight loss - this ISN'T a Democratic or Republican issue, this is an American issue so it wouldn't hurt to have some Republican examples too and Huckabee would be a good one for the same reason that Clinton would be a good one - both have lost a lot of weight and they have very similar backgrounds - from the same town, had similar careers, etc.

I think that their examples in losing weight have already had some impact on people- Huckabee's diet book was a best seller as I recall.

Doug D.

[firedupdem]

99. Doug

You probably are really concerned about people becoming healthy and that's great. I can tell you where your post went south with me....

"It will cause the number of people smoking to rise in this country and indeed around the world.

It will increase the incidence of death and disease related to smoking and the subsequent health insurance costs in an already broken health care system."


I can't agree with that portion of your post.

[ddeclue]

104. But THAT is absolutely true...

That is the whole reason why we don't let people smoke in TV shows and why it's been cut back in the movies too.

One of the most effective tools the tobacco companies ever had in getting people, particularly women, to smoke was convincing them that it was sophisticated, glamorous, and/or cool to smoke.

When cool people (like Obama) are seen smoking then other people who want to be cool start smoking too.

Why do you think companies pay athletes and celebrities to endorse products?

Why do you think Beyonce and Brittany Spears are hawking perfume on TV?

Ashton Kutcher is hawking cameras because he's a world famous photographer??

Tiger woods hawks Buicks because he's a race car driver?

McDonalds got a whole bunch of Olympic athletes to hawk Big Macs because they won their gold medals eating at the Golden Arches?

Of COURSE celebrity, fame, glamour, cool-factor play into this issue and have a consequence.

[Stardust]

90. .

:eyes: :thumbsdown:

[tammywammy]

96. You know, when I was at that rally and Obama lit up in the middle of his speech

I said "OMG! That's so cool. He's so cool." When I left the rally I immediately went to the nearest gas station and bought a pack of Camels. The first one left me hacking, but I persevered and by the end of the week, smoking a pack a day. I want to be just like Obama.


:eyes:

[ddeclue]

120. An absurd rebuttal that establishes nothing...

We all know he didn't spark up a cigarette in the middle of a rally - we all know that you didn't immediately rush out and buy a carton of Camels either. The real world is more subtle than that and we all know it.

:eyes:

[mt13]

98. you must not ever have been a smoker...

as one who has quit and started again and again, i can tell you that nicotine addiction might just be the most difficult one to overcome. and i have had others that i have overcome so i know this to be true. my only advice for Barack is to keep trying, over and over again. that is the only path to success.

[donco6]

112. I agree.

I've quit and started, quit and started dozens of times. You just have to keep at it again and again. I've been off them since the election and have been doing OK. But I don't kid myself.

[mt13]

130. as i...

light up another american spirit, i think, damn, i should really give quitting another whirl! glad you did!

[donco6]

189. You know, the diff this time was . . .

. . . I allowed myself to "fail" once in a while. Up to then I just assumed cold turkey was the only way. But as I just sort of weaned myself off of them I realized I didn't miss them that much. I'd go through phases though. A hard day at work and ZAM, I'm at the 7-11 for a pack and a lighter. But so far, so good. I just really don't want to do it any more. Not that I don't crave it once in a while (when drinking beer especially!)

[ddeclue]

197. Congrats and keep on keepin on

:toast:

[mt13]

203. i hear you!

i think you nailed it.

[ddeclue]

126. No but I find it very hard to eat healthy...I'm Bill Clinton not Barack Obama..

and my addiction is to the drive through cheeseburger, not a Marlboro cigarette.

BOTH are problems and BOTH ought to be addressed in a high profile way by President Obama.

Much of our health care problem is lifestyle related in this country and prevention is going to have to be a major component in any health care reform we undertake as a nation - we simply cannot continue to spend 1 out of every 7 dollars on health care in this country - it will only get worse as our population ages.

Like Al Gore did with Global Warming, this issue needs to be addressed in a way that transcends political party and there is NO good reason not to do so. It's NOT just about cigarettes - it's about a LOT of lifestyle issues: diet, exercise, drugs (prescription and otherwise), alcohol, and YES cigarettes.

People COULD continue to make excuses about how their particular vice can be ignored because it doesn't compare to all the other vices or we could realize that they are ALL components of a common problem.

The analogy would be as if SUV drivers were the only source of global warming gases when there are also light bulbs left on, badly insulated buildings, etc, etc. They ALL impact on global warming just as ALL of these lifestyle choices impact on the cost of health care in this country.

Doug D.

[mt13]

134. i agree...

i was just saying that it is the most difficult addiction to get over. it goes beyond physical addiction. there are so many psychological issues incorporated into the whole picture. smokers tend to think of their cigarettes as their best friends at times and the only way to deal with an issue is to light up. it does help the thought process. studies have been done showing schizophrenics actually become more cognizant after smoking:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/26516.php

Barack is trying and he has been vocal about it. he should be credited for that, not denigrated because he is not vocal enough for some.

[ddeclue]

138. I am NOT denigrating Obama - I'm urging him to step it up a notch

and take advantage of an opportunity to move the public health situation forward along the same lines a Al Gore made Global Warming an issue. In fact Al Gore could speak on the issue of tobacco in such a TV show as he did about his sister and tobacco DURING "An Inconvenient Truth" - kind of where I got the idea in the first place.

I understand that nicotine addiction is a difficult addiction to overcome - even though I'm not a smoker - but I have to believe that someone with Obama's discipline and willpower and someone with the support system of the President of the United States should find this a doable task.

Doug D.

[mt13]

148. perhaps...

i used too strong a word. i didn't mean to offend you.

perhaps he will be more vocal about his quitting but there is so much on his plate right now, i think this issue is on the back burner. as i noted, nicotine helps one think.

[ddeclue]

152. OK and I wasn't suggesting that he made it job #1 either...

I was suggesting that it would be best timed to occur in conjunction with a major sporting event like the World Series, Super Bowl or the next Winter Olympics.

I think he COULD make it this years New Years resolution and get THAT somehow into the evening news though and perhaps at the end of the year declare that he had been successful in quitting and then they could make the kind of video I'm talking about for a public prime time hour on the networks before the opening of the winter Olympics. That would all time out nicely. In the next year however he could be periodically interviewed by the video producers to check on his progress.

Doug D.

[gblady]

153. BINGO.....

while reading this thread....I kept telling myself....
obviously the OP has never been a smoker...

while I do believe some people have an addictive personality type...
of which a "cheeseburger addiction" could be a possibility...

the physically addictive qualities of a cigarette are out of this world.
absolutely no comparison...none whatsoever.

I think Barack is trying his best...
His discipline and commitment in other areas of his life proves that.
I, however, think he has many other fishes to fry that outweigh this matter by miles.

[Hippo_Tron]

119. So do you think the fact that Obama tried cocaine will send a message to kids that it is okay?

[Muttocracy]

123. And he hasn't demonstrated publicly that he's NOT using it anymore!!!!111

So we must assume he still is!!!!!!1111

[ddeclue]

140. If he was still doing it in recent history I would say yes but since it was 25-30 years ago: NO..

Same for George W. Bush or RFK, Jr. ancient history is ancient history on this topic and if anything I think it sends the message, yes I tried this but I wised up and decided to live healthier. I would have had more respect for Clinton's answer if he had said "yes I inhaled but I quit a long time ago because you can't become President getting high and eating twinkies and Nachos".

Doug D.

[Hippo_Tron]

161. In that case...

It probably would've been better if Clinton had quit getting blowjobs from 24 year olds long before he became President. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen in the real world. Fortunately, I think that you overstate the consequences of such bad behavior.

Obama simply smoking is not the same as doing television advertisements for cigarettes. The influence of the President simply being known to smoke is not nearly as great as television commercials of Michael Jordan peddling Big Macs. I'm sre it has some negative influence but you could say that about almost any bad behavior from a President and at the end of the day these people are people not saints. So long as they don't actively encourage others to engage in their bad behavior then it has less influence.

If Obama does try to make an example of himself by quitting smoking and encouraging others to do so, that would be wonderful. But I voted for a president, not a national role model. Quitting smoking is extremely difficult and stressful and Obama's job already has enough stress. If he finds it too difficult to get through the day because he's trying to quit smoking then he should wait until after he leaves office to quit.

As far as I'm concerned getting the job done must be his number one priority. If that means smoking cigarettes or getting blowjobs from interns, then so be it. If he can be a boy scout while getting the job done then that's a nice little side benefit. But the president's influence as a role model is of little consequence when compared to the president's influence in his actual job.

[ddeclue]

168. You voted for a President not a national role model...

that makes you (and me) exceptions - not the rule.

Political campaigns aren't won by candidates who say "ignore my personal life, my biography, my family, my hobbies and my past record - just vote for my promised policies". Candidates are usually not foolish enough to even TRY to say that to the public. They know that they have to get the public to like them PERSONALLY if they want to win.

The inevitable consequence is that they have no choice but to be role models - it is a package deal. And yes Bill Clinton's dalliances would have hurt his popularity more had the Republicans not turned it into literally a Federal case - just ask John Edwards or Gary Hart.

Finally I question whether he can go eight years with this debilitating habit affecting his health and whether he can actually wait that long to quit. Just take a look at how the Presidency ages these guys - they look about 20 years older after 8 years, even if they are trying to be healthy.

[Hippo_Tron]

218. He's 47, and in otherwise very good shape

The probability of him having serious health problems with or without smoking in the next 8 years is very minimal. After he's out of office is a different story but that's between him, his wife, and his daughters and none of my business.

And you are correct that people do vote for a national role model, even though they ought not to. But I think that Obama's smoking is a minor political issue compared to other things. If smoking helps him focus on his job then it far outweighs the minor political costs.

[Undercurrent]

125. .

For me personally this whole discussion has less to do with Obama's personal actions, and more to do with the fact that I'm not a fan of the nanny state idea. That holds for drugs, abortion, food, and all sorts of personal adult actions that others might find "bad".

This is an issue of my personal business, Obama's personal business, and what is public policy. Public policy is all of our concern, and right to dissect. Personal business is well..personal.

As a retired RN I have seen plenty of results of people doing things that damage their bodies and minds. That's not the issue of this particular discussion to me. It's about the personal freedom to do dumb things.

And anyone who says that quitting smoking "will take very little effort" has scant understanding of the addictive power of many drugs. Including nicotine. Obama has talked about his struggles to quit.

[mt13]

137. amen... n/t

[ddeclue]

162. I emphatically did NOT argue for a "nanny state" solution did I?

Did I say "Obama should pass a law banning smoking?"

NO.

THAT would have been a "nanny state" solution.

INSTEAD I argued that he should lead by his example and inspire others to quit smoking.

That's 100% the OPPOSITE of "nanny state" - indeed it is the very epitome of "personal responsibility" is it NOT?

:eyes:

[Undercurrent]

181. I didn't say the "nanny state solution", as in codified by law.

I said the "nanny state idea". That idea is first exhibited in people telling other people what to do in the privacy of their own bodies. It is not the same as the "nanny state solution".

[ddeclue]

183. NO..it's NOT the same..

What you are saying is telling people that they don't have a first amendment right to freedom of speech to express their opinions.

That is NOT a "nanny state" -

from the wikipedia:

Nanny state is a derogatory term that refers to state protectionism, economic interventionism, or regulatory policies (of economic, social or other nature), and the perception that these policies are becoming institutionalized as common practice. Opponents of such policies use the term in their advocacy against what they consider as uninvited and damaging state meddling. It has been referred to as a form of political correctness.

....

The operative notion is that the nanny STATE is ENFORCED by the STATE...it is STATE (government) intervention - not personal example.

[Undercurrent]

185. OK, call it the nanny attitude then.

I don't care.

Of course you have your First Amendment rights just like all citizens do. Expressing you opinion is your right. But that is not how you have come across. You make it sound like you have a need to tell other people what they should, or should not do in the privacy of their own bodies.

Maybe that's not true. Who knows. I don't. I don't know you, nor you me. Our only contact is through words on a message board.

[ddeclue]

193. I don't think it can be "nanny" if it isn't enforceable...

You could call it "political correctness" if you like..

Something to consider is that private smoking has public consequences on the cost of health care and lost productivity which we all pay for.

Even still I am NOT calling for outlawing cigarettes, I'm calling for education and inspiration because I view them as a much more effective means to an end.

Prohibition doesn't work.

It didn't work for alcohol and it doesn't work for drugs now.

Why would I want to add tobacco to that list?

Doug D.

[Undercurrent]

212. I'm sure everyone on DU is well aware of the

dangers inherent in smoking cigarettes. Nonetheless smoking remains a personal choice, as long as the smoker is not creating second hand smoke conditions, of course. What one does with their own body is about as personal as it gets, whether it's tattoos, piercings, abortion, sex and a lot of other things.

Obama is an adult. I'm not his mommy. I don't even tell my adult kids what to do. I respect their privacy, and their right to make their own choices.

[williesgirl]

131. While they're still legal, I suggest you get off your high horse. He's an individual, is not doing

it in public probably to keep kids from emulating him, so where's your beef? If you don't choose to smoke, that's fine. I don't either, but I don't try to push my beliefs on others unless they happen to be my children. Are you really a Repuke in disguise here?

[ddeclue]

165. SMEAR the messenger why don't you?

I'm plenty Democrat friend and I'm NOT attacking Obama so you can stop pretending to defend him.

Yes it's legal to smoke - but it's NOT healthy to smoke and Obama is hardly a private citizen, whatever he does he sets an example - that's NOT an avoidable optional part of being a public figure.

That's not healthy to smoke is not a mere "opinion" or "belief" - it is a scientifically accepted fact. Smoking causes 100,000+ deaths a year in this country and incapacitates millions. It costs the economy and drives up the cost of health care. NO smoking is NOT unique as an "optional" lifestyle cost to the economy and the healthcare system but blaming cheeseburgers doesn't excuse cigarettes. Both are problems and both ought to be addressed - NOT by banning them but by educating and inspiring the public to make better choices.

Doug D.

[Paladin]

177. You Deserve To Be Smeared.

If Obama re-establishes the U.S. Constitution in this country, I'll send him a dozen packs of his favorite brand of smokes. You don't like it? Tough shit.....

[ddeclue]

179. Thanks for sharing... nobody deserves to be smeared by definition...

:eyes:

You need to get a grip and stop being a rabid "defender" where no attack has occurred...

:crazy:

[kiva]

147. Actually the cost of Obama choosing to smoke (or not)

is zilch to you or to me. I don't care if he smokes or drinks or does other things in his personal life, because it is personal. I do care that he works to straighten out our economic woes, that he works to ensure equal rights for all Americans, that he devotes the time and effort to end the war in Iraq and prevent other conflicts as best he can. That's why I voted for him. Not everyone looks to politicians, or actors, or rock stars as role models--if you want to encourage or discourage behavior in your children, then lead by example and don't expect others to do it for you.

[ddeclue]

176. well NO it's NOT zilch - it sets an example which will drive smoking up or down

in the population which we all have to pay for in unnecessary healthcare costs.

Not "zilch" at all.

[Texasgal]

184. Obama has PUBLICLY stated

that he is trying to quit.

Addiction is a very difficult process, it is a deeply personal journey as well.

He is trying to quit, he has stated that publicly... what else do you demand from him?

[Doctor_J]

186. Bush is a miserable drunk, but I don't remember anyone blaming him

for other peoples' drinking.

Did I step into frepperville by accident?

[ddeclue]

191. no I think Bush WAS a miserable drunk who traded it in on a runner's high..

He IS still MISERABLE though....

:)

[me b zola]

219. Guess you didn't see bush* at the Olympics

So stinking drunk he needed to be physically assisted.

Whatever. This is one of the most ridiculous threads that I have ever seen here. Go sleep it off.

[burythehatchet]

187. dude, you make a point that would be a decent discussion but I've found

that rational discourse is very hard to come by. The idol worship of Obama is too thick a fog to see through.

[Texasgal]

188. What a pantload...

This has nothing to do with Obama worship... Ugggg. :eyes:

[burythehatchet]

222. game-set-match

[DevonRex]

238. Idol worship???? Enough already with the petty insults of anybody who happens to like Obama.

You don't have to like him. But you DO need to quit insulting people who do.

[stop the bleeding]

192. I wonder how much my toliet paper " really cost"? NT

[ddeclue]

194. Depends on the brand.. is it double ply, single? Do you buy it in bulk?

:rofl:

[Colobo]

206. I wish he quits smoking for his own health, not to set an "example".

[Life Long Dem]

207. Portraying a lie that Obama is smoking, does noting to help with health issues and curbing smoking.

:banghead:

[ddeclue]

210. Yet another "defender" against an attack that never happened...

Obama is quitTING he hasn't said he has QUIT.

This implies he has not yet FINISHED the act of the quit. Therefore he must still (at least occasionally) smoke.

That said THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON OBAMA. It is just an outline for a POSITIVE opportunity that he could take advantage of.

Yet you are another one of the glass half empty folks who sees attacks everywhere...

:banghead: :eyes:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

211. Not everyone who smokes is like Patty and Selma from the Simpsons

With a butt dangling from their lips at all times and an overflowing ashtray. I smoke 2 to 4 cigarettes daily and I guarantee I'm a lot healthier than any number of smug nonsmokers I know.

[gmudem]

213. No sane person will start smoking because of Obama.

And even if they try to say that is why they started, they are lying and are just looking for an excuse for their habit.

[ddeclue]

216. People are highly suggestible and don't make these decisions with their frontal lobes..

I suggest you read the book "Blink" about how people make these sorts of irrational decisions and how our visual processing often short circuits more rational thinking.

Doug D.

[totodeinhere]

236. That's their problem, not Obama's.

If he does smoke, it's his private business.

[CreekDog]

223. It's an addiction

and while I understand that what you are demanding is that he become a perfect person and that it's your right to demand that.

it's not fair.

anybody's going to have a vice, but what will it be? i wish he didn't smoke but it's not my decision and knowing how hard it is to quit, i'm cutting an overall extremely decent man some slack on this one.

[ShortnFiery]

225. WTF? Beyond inane in today's world. Doesn't even qualify for "ET" or "The Soup"

:smoke:

[Waiting For Everyman]

231. Does this mean you're 100% done making your own life "oh so perfect"?

Then mind your own damn business for a change. Quit trying to dominate other people with your own ways of being. It's offensive.

[Froward69]

232. BOOO HOOO!!!

It will cause the number of people smoking to rise in this country and indeed around the world.

BULLSHIT!!!!!

so who the hell cares??? you and the smoking Nazi's do.

Obama is not FDR. Besides even if he did not smoke cigarettes, and kept in outward physical shape his chances of a stroke remain the same.
this took over 100 posts before it made it to greatest... no wonder, there are only 6 smoking Nazis that want to make it an issue.
Not with me.
In fact Obama is one President I would like to have a smoke with. not a beer, a smoke.

why not worry about Gaza? no it is someones personal choice to be made an issue...

HEY Skinner, this post makes me long for a UN-Recommend button...

[Carni]

235. Of all the NON issues

I could give a rat's ass if Obama smokes 4 packs a day.

He was elected to run the country and clean up bushit's mess, you know -- right the economy? Get us out of war? (trivial matters like that)

I didn't vote for him to set a health example for the kiddies.

I cannot believe this post is on the greatest page -- how freaking stupid!

[mopinko]

237. jeez. this thread makes me want to talk about rick warren some more. np

[road2000]

239. Hey, DD...

I suggested Huckabee because he's a self-righteous preacher.

Like you.

[mkultra]

240. Obama said he quite and the smoking thing is a freep smear

The photos are shopped and this is really a smear.

[Sandrine for you]

241. And what about Warren....

And by the way, I can see the piles of corpses, Obama is responsible of an auto-generate genocide.

[treestar]

242. Is it really his job to set an example for the rest of us

We are adults. And how many people would smoke just because Obama does?

[book_worm]

244. Say Doug from Orlando, when have you seen Obama smoking? I've heard he has quit

Why don't you write a post about one of your shortcomings? Oh, you probably have none.

[JohnMcCant2008]

248. what a bunch of self righteous bullshit.....

He's an adult. Smoking is legal.

Granted it's a bad habit and unhealthy - but if an adult is swayed by his "example" of smoking (if he even does) then shame on them for being such a weak little sheep.

If an adult is worried about him influencing your children, then maybe they aren't receiving the influence they need from their own parents.

Either way, we should be more concerned with how he governs, not whether he sneaks a cigarette. Leave that crap to the freepers.