Alterman finally gets it on both Kerry and Dean

[unfrigginreal]

• Dec. 19, 2003| 2:30 PM ET

Yes, to those of you who asked, I am feeling that Senator Kerry did saw off that limb onto which I had climbed for him vis-à-vis his vote for the war when he started bragging about it after Saddam’s capture. The ultimate lesson here, I guess, comes from my old friend and mentor Izzy Stone. “Don’t trust any politician. Period.” In the meantime, the question of the Democratic nomination has come down to this: “Will this election be about turning out your base or winning over swing voters?” Gore did the latter but not the former. He won the election, but, thanks to Ralph Nader (with an assist from the SCLM and Gore’s own crappy campaign), not by enough to prevent the Supreme Court from stealing it for Bush. Right now the country is just as evenly divided as it was in 2000. Bush has not increased the percentage of Americans who call themselves Republicans by a single digit. Thirty-eight percent of Americans think he stole the election, the same number who say they lean Republican. That’s an even start, except for the fact that population shifts give the red states seven more electoral votes than they had last time.

Anway, back to the base vs. swing thing. The punditocracy, which hates Dean, has only token liberal representation, being almost entirely made up of hard-right conservatives and DLC-type swings, who prefer moderate Republicans and conservative Democrats to liberals. The thing is they swing on different issues than the rest of the country, mainly, how much does the candidate suck up to them personally and how willing is he to go to war at the slightest excuse? Dean is not only claiming the mantle of liberalism—a bit unfairly, but there it is—he is also sticking his finger in the collective eye of the pundits on both counts. He doesn’t believe in war as an instrument of policy and he lets the pundits know they are idiots. The base loves this. The media hate it. How will the non-38s react? We don’t know yet, but that’s the gamble that Democrats appear ready to take. (I will expand on this in my Nation column next week.)

The obvious strategy is to shore up the swings with the VP, making Clark or Edwards the obvious choice. I imagine Dean will go this way should he stay on top. But I don’t think the VP matter much, again, except to the media. So it’s a roll of the dice. I’m not really comfortable with it myself, but it may work. Anyone who is not a right-wing fanatic has got to be massively disappointed with what they got with George W. Bush, compared to what he promised during the 2000 election. The question is, will they ever get the news? I dunno, but there is, ahem, a book coming out in late January that is designed to solve just this conundrum. Patriotic Americans will want to buy it in bulk and give it to base and swing voters alike.


http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/

[blm]

1. Dear Eric...Kerry is being consistent in his position of removing Saddam

Mx Just because he disagrees with the WAY Bush went about it doesn't mean he changed his view on regime change in Iraq and its benefits for the region.

Kerry disagrees with how Dean is so inconsistent in his rhetoric on Iraq, and no foreign policy debate is advanced positively by someone who shoots from the lip and reduces the issue to black and white for political gain.

[mzmolly]

7. Now BLM, Kerry changed his position on this war a few times...

it's apparent to most people, and Kerry is being 'found out' now.

Last week he bitched about * not involving the international community, this week *after the Saddam capture* he bitched about Dean wanting to do just that.

So which 'way' does Kerry think the war should have been handled BLM?

[blm]

11. nope, he pointed to Dean's inconsistencies

and also the fact that he says things like he'd only go into war with UN approval as examples of Dean not understanding foreign policy and speaking from the hip in a way that can even set precedent you don't mean to set if you're not more careful.

Kerry's position has been clear since 1998 and he fully understands how to go about gathering a real coalition, because he has worked with other world leaders and Kofi Annan for many years.

[mzmolly]

12. Riiiiiiiiight.

:eyes:

I'm not gonna waste my time pointing out the obvious to you BLM because Kerry is crashing and burning on his own.

I feel badly for him, but he's no longer worth much of my energy, and frankly neither are you. :hi:

Peace, and hope to see you in the Dean camp after the nomination. :)

[zulchzulu]

14. Your smug audacity is the Deandroid stereotype

The races in Iowa and New Hampshire are going to be a lot closer than you can imagine.

He has laughs last laughs best.

[unfrigginreal]

15. Haha

You calling others smug? I wonder what other Wise Men get the same feeling in the Pitt of their stomach?

[Cha]

2. I'm not sure about this...

"Dean is not only claiming the mantle of liberalism—a bit unfairly" Since when does Dean claim that?...in Alterman's mind?

Dean is what he is...can't fence him in.

[billbuckhead]

3. Republicans in New England are pretty much liberal, it's the DINO's

you got to watch. And I'll take Jim Jeffords, John Chaffee, Lincoln Chafee, Lowell Weicker, Ed Brooke, Olympia Stowe, William Weld,etc over DINO's like Lieberman and Dean.

[dsc]

4. Oh really Mr. Jeffords

voted for the tax cut (first one) and every single Bush appointee. That would include Ashcroft, Norton, all those judges we are fighting, the Medicare reform bill. All of those were voted against by Lieberman and opposed publicly by Dean. Do your homework. On edit with the exception of the tax cut Chafee voted for all of it too.

[billbuckhead]

5. Real convient for Dean that he never has to vote on anything

Well , he did sign the civil unions bill and milks that like he was Joan of Arc. Why did 10% of Vermont voters vote for someone more liberal than Dean in his last election? Because HoHo is a DINO, a big Cato institute addressing DINO and he's not going to tell you about it till he wins the nomination.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

10. Welcome Trix!

:hi:

[JohnKleeb]

8. Jeffords is a Dean endorser

:) so you know, I bet you did already though. You were just saying some of the shit he did that wasn't so hot, I am glad he votes with our cancus now.
BTW I prefer Dean to those NE republicans mentioned personally.

[mzmolly]

9. True, he's his own man. Hey, don't fence me in might make a great

campaign song. ;)

[tameszu]

13. Maybe when he says "I'm the one from the Democratic Wing

of the Democratic Party"?

And so on...

[Bill of Rights]

16. Once again

we read that Clark should be the VP. I wish they'd cut it out! Clark is only in it for the presidency. He had a difficult time persuading his wife in the first place. That's why he delayed so long. If he doesn't get the presidency, they plan on going back to Arkansas.