I AGREE with Ben Stein....really

[DemocracyInaction]

Just heard Ben Stein say that if Obama administration people, financial networks, etc. stop talking doom and gloom and say they expect the economy to recover by the end of the year, it WILL recover by the end of the year. Here's why this same thing has been racing through my mind for weeks:

All the wheels came off last fall and, indeed, there were terrible, serious problems. But, then a few months later, as pointed out by many in the financial world, we (and the world) were being talked into a panic akin to a run on the bank. They admitted that a lot of people worldwide were getting their economic news from primarily CNBC (along with several others). These clowns were yelling "fire" (and often when pressed, assholes like Kudlow were fumbling around to substantiate their screaming). It was admitted that a vital chunk of this collapse had become unfounded panic....and that panic has driven us into worse problems...a deadly spiral.

They need to get this whole crew of CNBC off the air (like the witch who visibly has an orgasm every time there is bad news because she utterly loathes Obama). These irresponsible clowns (if they are so "learned", then why aren't they called upon to solve the problem)need to be pulled off the air before they do, literally, drive the world economy into collapse. Yes, they have had that big of an effect on it all and it needs to stop.

[alwysdrunk]

1. He's right. Confidence and outlook is the biggest factor.

As long as banks aren't failing that is. This is a consumer driven econmy and it should be. The economy won't come back until the consumer comes back. This is were leadership key.

[DemocracyInaction]

2. alwys--regarding the consumer

There are still a good number of people who, if they wanted, could take advantage of that "deal" on so many items that are going on because of the economy. But, these bastards have had them scared for so long and have told them how they should behave (a lot like Bush screaming "terra, terra" every five minutes) that they simply are not going to part with a dime. Before a bargain drew them. Now they are passing up good bargains out of absolute fear. And that fear is making the economy fall further and further. And, what pisses me royally, is that people like Kudlow coo all over if someone suggests more tax cuts for the rich--he then smiles and says "yup, then everything will be beautiful by tomrrow morning". Ohhh, geee, you mean it's THAT simple!

[alwysdrunk]

10. I think it's all the 1929 stuff and the D word

I know I've grown up believeing that life during the Depression was basically like Hell on Earth. Just as scary to hear that as "terrorists are coming to kill your family". we've got to find a way to get people to stop saying that and start talking about how the recession will be over next year.

[RagAss]

3. Yes....But.....

Wouldn't positive statements be more believable after a few months of doom and gloom?

I'm just sayin.......hey...it's all showbiz anyway....and who's better than Barack !

[Warren Stupidity]

4. uh - there has been very little actual panic

and agreeing with that idiot Stein is generally not wise.

This economic crisis is not a panic on wall street, and the consumer reaction to the events of the last six months, shutting down their spending to essentials, is entirely rational and non-panic driven. The international financial system collapsed last september. It did not collapse because of a panic, because of people yelling fire, it collapsed because after 30 years of deregulation it was rotten to the core and unsustainable. Be happy go shop is idiocy when 650,000 people a month are getting sacked.

[alwysdrunk]

6. It's not "be happy go shop", it's "the world isn't ending, stop being afraid and hoarding"

There are many people who are truly scared of a depression and are cutting back on everything because of that. If they start to undertand that this reccession may be bad, but it's not the end of life as we know it, they will change their spending and investing habits.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. So if the recession may be bad it is entirely rational to put off

non-essential purchases. Advising people to (stop being afraid and hoarding)(go shop) is not good advice. How do you know that you aren't about to lose your job?

But this is not a consumer recession, well at least not originally. Consumer behavior has been in reaction to an actual and real and fundamental economic crisis. Characterizing the problem as simply 'those damn consumers not only bought too much house but now they won't buy shit at the malls either' is just more rightwing bullshit intended to divert the blame from the manifest failure of their 30 year experiment with neoliberal idiocy.

In order to sell a stimulus package and a budget that contains even more stimulus the administration has to define the current situation as bad enough to require extraordinary action which is why rightwing assholes from Stein to Limbaugh are uttering the same talking points about how the problem is the negativity coming from the white house - they are trying to prop up opposition to government intervention.

We've had a systemic crack up. We haven't had one of those in 80 years. This is a whole different ball game.

[alwysdrunk]

13. Scare tactics? From Obama? That's what you seriously want?

The bolded part of you post suggests this. I don't agree with that at all. Scaring people into supporting the budget? It was wrong when Bush did it about the war and it would wrong for Obama to do it now about this.

And talking points about the negativity from the White House? The negativity is coming from all angles. An no one is saying that "is the problem" (Maybe Rush is, I wouldn't know), they are saying that negativity, manifesting as low consumer confidence, will put the recovery off longer and I agree.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Being honest about the crisis we face - not a scare tactic.

Pretending that 'the fundamentals of the economy are sound' and that 'everyone should go shop' are exactly the framing being promoted by the neoliberal rightwing corporate kleptocracy.

[Caretha]

21. Yeah! What he said n/t

[eridani]

22. What is happening is that the ongoing successful assault on working class income

--for the last 30 years has passed the point of no return.

[sandnsea]

12. Can you believe this shit?

I cannot believe this. What the fuck is it about "no money" that these people just don't get. There's NO MONEY. The financiers blew it all up. There won't be any money until we create a new economy. It's not going to happen by the end of the year.

[Zynx]

17. The failure of financial institutions has been largely panic driven.

Lehman and Bear Stearns are prime examples.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. completely wrong

Lehman and Bear Stearns failed because they no longer had assets that covered their obligations - they went massively bankrupt - not over a redemption panic but over the collapse to the mortgage derivatives market they were heavily invested in.

[eridani]

24. No, it has been driven by the collapse of worthless dipshit derivatives

--that represented nothing real at all. DEBT is not an ASSET, yet those deregulated sociopathic shitstains sold it as such for years.

[Common Sense Party]

5. Ben Stein also said last year that the rich should pay more taxes.

A fool, but a sometimes correct fool.

[DemocracyInaction]

9. CommonSense--also...

..there was something here at DU in the last day or two regarding Stein and the shock that he was actually supporting Obama's moves on the economic front, etc. and the tax breaks lapsing for the rich. We were all remarking how shocking it was to hear this from him!!! I know that "the plunge" was indeed not psychological but real. BUT, then these talking-heads "talked" the world into going from plunge to trying to find a space ship to fly them to another planet before total disaster hit. No mess can be cleaned up or fire put out if people lose their heads, run around in tight circles to the left and panic. I believe that #1 job right now is to get panic under control.

[Common Sense Party]

18. No traction is going to be gained in the markets or in the economy

until people get some confidence and see some certainty. Politicians (including the President), pundits and the econo-"experts" need to accentuate the positives. Is that spin? Is it lying? No, it's telling the truth that is, at the moment, not being reported. Right now, we're ONLY hearing about the 75% of things that are wrong with the economy. Not a peep about the 25% of stuff that's going right--and THAT'S where the recovery will come from, that's where certaintyand confidence will come from.

[Gregorian]

7. Blindness doesn't allow for educated choices. And Ben Stein said

that the housing crash would result in $38 billion in losses. I cannot find that quote. But I posted it here about a year ago.

In a control system there is a thing called feedback. Americans are notorious for not having good information. If all we get is lies, we cannot make proper decisions.

Give us the truth. No sugar coating. And Ben Stein is a dufus. A very smart one. But still a dufus, not unlike Scalia. All A's in school, but dumb.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. Very true, but not an option in a democracy

[RandomThoughts]

16. When you say 'not an option in a democracy.'

I assume you are talking about statements in OP about changing a news anchors, or the point of view expressed by news channels.

First I am not advocating this, I am only pointing out a common miss-thought.

If people voted for 'congress people' running on the 'PBS platform', where all stations would be public owned, or even 1 to 1 ratio of PBS for every other channel, then there would be a democracy method to decide on how tv works. This might be to get more information that reflects more 'truth' out there (that of coarse assumes that there is some untruth or slant in news right now, remember effective propaganda is not lying, it is omission or what information is highlighted in the news.)

Again I am not advocating this, I am making a point that free market and democracy are not really connected, but for many years, the two ideas have been so interwoven in so much speech people believe our economic system is part of our political system, or part of our freedom.

Note that economic money control of media, puts the news under the control of a plutocracy, or even totalitarian, since one share equals one vote, and most of the controlling voting shares of stock are controlled by top 5%. So actually corporate media would be the system that is not democratic. CSpan or PBS since it is funded by government, and elected officials appoint those that chose programing, would be democratic.

We have also been told that state ran media is always propaganda because it will support the ruling party. But money ran media is also propaganda since it will support the money interest.

Some solutions to this used before is to keep ownership of media split between many people, or oversight commissions or even partial regulation of media since it is so important to society. Also combinations of state owned, and private owned can put a back pressure on corporate media helping them from drifting to far into a self serving interest. For example, what if democracy now like programming was between msnbc and cnn on the dial, their exposure and advocacy would give a point of view that would put pressure on some of the more traditional slants of media.(Democracy Now is far left, but the point is it is an example of a broadcast also against money controlled or money massaged media messages.)

Strictly speaking, if a news channel is part of a company that makes widgets, and widgets are shown to be less effective then vagets, then it is against the corporate model to report that, since it would hurt bottom line, and CEO's are suppose to insure shareholder profit. (this assumes that reporters editors are not given journalistic freedom within a corporation)

Anyway its an interesting topic, and shows how our system is the only system we ever think on because it is the system that is most liked by status quo, or those that have the megaphone to talk about it. And it is really hard to find anyone that could defend a state ran media as a fair system or a check to make a system more fair, yet PBS has some good programming. And many agree the MSM has a slant that is not equal for all society.

Again before people give me a bunch of labels, this is just thinking on the topic. After all people get to vote for who they want in government. And those people get to decide the rules for things like media, so it should be thought about somewhere.


Edit: It is said that capitalism is freedom because people can chose what happens in society, but really it is people with money can chose, but some argue that people with money are better to decide because they are better people, or had to be to get rich, or they earned right to chose for others.

It should be said if we were in a place where a monopoly led to a situation where we did not receive real information, or we were deceived, then we would lose ability to make real choices, even when we did get to chose something. The choice is an illusion if it is based on bad info. So freedom also requires an accurate information system.

[EraOfResponsibility]

14. Sorry, President Obama will not lie to the American People about how bad things are

he's not Bush, he's not going to tell us what we want to hear.

[scheming daemons]

19. Just as we had "irrational exuberance" in 2007, we have "irrational panic" now

It wasn't as good as we thought then...


...and it isn't as bad as we think now.

[Jennicut]

20. Eh, I don't need to be lied to or my hand held like I'm 5.

I just want the straight honest truth. My sister in law got laid off Friday and this is the most people I have ever know being let go of their jobs. It IS really bad out there. I have been looking for part time work as I stay home with my 3 and 4 year olds while going to school at night. Zilch, nothing is out there right now.