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Senate Dems May Punish Bayh, Feingold For Omnibus Opposition

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Cash_thatswhatiwant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:44 PM
Original message
Senate Dems May Punish Bayh, Feingold For Omnibus Opposition
Senate Democrats are debating whether Sens. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) and Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) should be punished for opposing a $410 billion omnibus.

Some Senate Democrats, including members of the Appropriations Committee, are angry that Feingold and Bayh have panned the massive spending bill after legislative priorities important to both lawmakers were included in the package.

One Democratic senator familiar with the discussions said his colleagues are irked that they “bent over backwards” to include provisions important to Feingold and Bayh, only to have both lawmakers slam the omnibus.

The question of whether the two senators, both of whom are up for reelection in 2010, deserve to be punished is important because it could determine future policy within the Democratic Conference.

One Democrat said several senators want Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to make clear to members of his conference that if they ask for favors in legislation, they will then be expected to support the bill.

Reid, for his part, seems none too pleased with Bayh.

When asked about Bayh’s critique, Reid grumbled: “I have 58 members of the caucus — I don’t run the caucus for Evan Bayh.”

Reid, however, added that he did not expect lawmakers who win projects in spending bills to support those bills.

The omnibus includes a provision — requested by Feingold — that freezes lawmakers’ pay. That gives the Wisconsin senator, who is a strong opponent of congressional salary increases, a major victory to campaign about.

The package also includes 17 earmarks worth almost $15 million that Bayh requested by himself or with other lawmakers. Seventy-eight senators have sponsored or co-sponsored more earmarks in the omnibus than Bayh, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense, a group that tracks federal spending.

Feingold declared at a news conference this week that he would oppose the omnibus, and has urged President Obama to veto it.

Bayh wrote an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal criticizing the package, which he called “bloated.”

Angry lawmakers say that Democrats who win concessions in appropriations bills should vote for those bills or risk losing their gains, said a senator familiar with the grumbling.

Bayh, for one, is not apologizing.

“Sen. Bayh knows this isn’t the most popular position, but he thinks it’s the right one. He is taking this stand against Washington’s bad spending habits because he believes it’s the right thing for our economy in the long term,” said spokesman Eric Kleiman.

Kleiman noted that Bayh voted for an amendment that would have stripped all earmarks, including his own, from the bill. But Bayh’s critics note the amendment, which failed by a vote of 63-32, had no chance of passing.

Feingold’s spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


more http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/senators-may-punish-feingold-bayh-for-opposing-spending-bill-2009-03-05.html
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. I can understand Bayh pulling this, since he's basically a Republican
(And those who were insisting he be nominated in 2007 should realize how bad things would be if we were in the Bayh Administration, since that administration would be committed to the Bush status quo)
but what's the deal with Feingold? He got what he wanted.

Any Badger State Du'ers understand this?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I'm an ex-Badger, and I understand it well.
The Big Idea for Wisconsin Democratic politicians is to be a maverick. An incorruptible and totally independent lone wolf is the best thing you can be. Senator Bill Proxmire exemplified this. He gave out "Golden Fleece" awards for various examples of wasteful government spending.

Feingold is cut from the same cloth. He voted for Ashcroft because he thought a President should pick his staff with minimal interference from Congress.

If you're looking for the kind of Democrat that a junior high school civics teacher would admire, Feingold is your guy. If you prefer real Democrats, look elsewhere.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Feingold isn't a real Democrat?
Wow.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I'd like to think a "Real" Democrat could be the sort that a junior high civics teacher could admire
I don't agree with Feingold on this decision, but I hope you wouldn't be arguing that Wisconsin would be better off with a cynical centrist hack.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Does "Real Democrat" mean "party line stooge"?
That seems to be where you're headed.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. I know and like Russ
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 02:24 PM by zulchzulu
I've met and talked with him several times since having been in Madison. He has principles that he doesn't give up... he thinks it's costly and there's earmarks, so he is going to vote against it. Like the Patriot Act, he reads the legislation and he makes his decision. Whether it lands on one political side or the other is not really his decision.

I don't agree with him on this, but I certainly can see his point from his perspective. If anything, having him vote against it is part of historic disagreements since this country started.

Russ wants the Line Item Veto and the ability to cross off unneeded or questionable pork in legislation. I see how he wants that enacted. He listens to the beat of his own drummer on a lot of decisions, which are usually spot on.

As for Evan Bayh, I always smell a rat with him...

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can someone explain this situation to me in full?
How important is this for Dems and what is the big deal of Feingold not supporting it?
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biopowertoday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tom Delay used to punish congresscritters. I hope the Dems
do not do this.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Only 51 votes required for passage in Senate ....
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 03:02 PM by Better Believe It
by requiring an actual on-the-floor-of-the-Senate Republican filibuster until 60 votes for cloture are obtained or better yet a simple change in Senate rules that will prohibit a filibuster in accordance with the United States Constitution.

End this "phantom" Republican "we'll call it in" bogus filibuster bull shit. I'm tired of it!


Op-Ed Contributor
Make My Filibuster
By DAVID E. RePASS
David E. RePass is an emeritus professor of political science at the University of Connecticut.
New York Times
March 1, 2009


PRESIDENT OBAMA has decided to spend his political capital now, pushing through an ambitious agenda of health care, education and energy reform. If the Democrats in the Senate want to help him accomplish his goals, they should work to eliminate one of the greatest threats facing effective governance — the phantom filibuster.

Most Americans think of the filibuster (if they think of it at all) through the lens of “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” — a minority in the Senate deeply disagrees with a measure, takes to the floor and argues passionately round the clock to prevent it from passing. These filibusters are relatively rare because they take so much time and effort.

In recent years, however, the Senate has become so averse to the filibuster that if fewer than 60 senators support a controversial measure, it usually won’t come up for discussion at all. The mere threat of a filibuster has become a filibuster, a phantom filibuster. Instead of needing a sufficient number of dedicated senators to hold the floor for many days and nights, all it takes to block movement on a bill is for 41 senators to raise their little fingers in opposition.

The phantom filibuster is clearly unconstitutional. The founders required a supermajority in only five situations: veto overrides and votes on treaties, constitutional amendments, convictions of impeached officials and expulsions of members of the House or Senate. The Constitution certainly does not call for a supermajority before debate on any controversial measure can begin.

And fixing the problem would not require any change in Senate rules. The phantom filibuster could be done away with overnight by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid. All he needs to do is call the minority’s bluff by bringing a challenged measure to the floor and letting the debate begin.

Some argue that this procedure would mire the Senate in one filibuster after another. But avoiding delay by not bringing measures to the floor makes no sense. For fear of not getting much done, almost nothing is done at all. And what does get done is so compromised and toothless to make it filibuster-proof that it fails to solve problems.

It also happens to make a great deal of political sense for the Democrats to force the Republicans to take the Senate floor and show voters that they oppose Mr. Obama’s initiatives. If the Republicans want to publicly block a popular president who is trying to resolve major problems, let them do it. And if the Republicans feel that the basic principles they believe in are worth standing up for, let them exercise their minority rights with an actual filibuster.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/opinion/02RePass.html...


------------------------------------------

Time to End the Filibuster By Making It Real
By Robert Schlesinger, Thomas Jefferson Street blog
U.S. News and World Report
March 2, 2009

Is it time to eliminate the filibuster? Definitely not. But David RePass, an emeritus professor of political science at the University of Connecticut, has an interesting suggestion in today's New York Times along those lines but distinctly short of it.

RePass bemoans the fact that the filibuster has given the senate's minority party a functional veto over legislation in that chamber by requiring at least 60 votes to pass something. But, he points out, real filibusters never actually happen these days: the modern "filibuster" is more threat than action.

Which is where RePass' solution comes in:

... fixing the problem would not require any change in Senate rules. The phantom filibuster could be done away with overnight by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid. All he needs to do is call the minority's bluff by bringing a challenged measure to the floor and letting the debate begin.

In other words, don't get rid of the filibuster. Instead make it real: Force Republicans to actually get up and tie up Senate business and explain why they're doing it. If the GOP (or the Democrats, in time, when they are back in the minority), want to filibuster they should be able to—but they should have to actually do it.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/03/...


-----------------------------------------------

If the Republicans organize a real, not bogus, Senate floor filibuster against legislation or appointments, Senate Democrats have the following options.

1. They can surrender to the mere threat of a filibuster and withdraw the nomination or bill.

2. They can amend and weaken the legislation until it is acceptable to Republicans, in other words, make it a Republican bill.

3. They can surrender to an actual filibuster after taking one or two quick cloture votes to give the appearance of resistance just before they withdraw the legislation or nomination rather than let a filibuster come to a conclusion.

4. Let the Republicans filibuster until the public tires of Republican obstructionism and 60 Senators finally agree to end debate and proceed with an up and down vote.

5. Use the so-called "nuclear option" in which the Senate easily changes Senate rules which would require 51 votes to approve legislation or an appointment and end a Republican filibuster.

So what really is the Republican "nuclear option" to end filibusters which scared the crap out of Senator Reid and other Democratic Senators in 2005?

-----------------------------

In U.S. politics, the nuclear option is an attempt by the presiding officer of the United States Senate to end a filibuster by majority vote, as opposed to 60 senators voting to end a filibuster. Although it is not provided for in the formal rules of the Senate, the procedure is the subject of a 1957 parliamentary opinion and has been used on several occasions since. The term was coined by Senator Trent Lott (Republican of Mississippi) in 2005

The Nuclear Option is used in response to a filibuster or other dilatory tactic. A senator makes a point of order calling for an immediate vote on the measure before the body, outlining what circumstances allow for this. The presiding officer of the Senate, usually the vice president of the United States or the president pro tempore, makes a parliamentary ruling upholding the senator's point of order. The Constitution is cited at this point, since otherwise the presiding officer is bound by precedent. A supporter of the filibuster may challenge the ruling by asking, "Is the decision of the Chair to stand as the judgment of the Senate?" This is referred to as "appealing from the Chair." An opponent of the filibuster will then move to table the appeal. As tabling is non-debatable, a vote is held immediately. A simple majority decides the issue. If the appeal is successfully tabled, then the presiding officer's ruling that the filibuster is unconstitutional is thereby upheld. Thus a simple majority is able to cut off debate, and the Senate moves to a vote on the substantive issue under consideration. The effect of the nuclear option is not limited to the single question under consideration, as it would be in a cloture vote. Rather, the nuclear option effects a change in the operational rules of the Senate, so that the filibuster or dilatory tactic would thereafter be barred by the new precedent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. In principle Russ and Bayh are right but they don't see the bigger picture
Pork accounts for a small percentage of our national debt. It should be stamped out, but this is not the time to do it. Plus this bill has provisions to ease the Cuban embargo, which I would really like to see passed.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. So what's wrong with this so-called "pork"? I'd like to see 100 billion more in "earmarks"!
It's just a tiny fraction of the bill, less than 2%, and much, perhaps most of it, goes for useful public works projects and other useful spending.

When thousands of "earmarks" are involved, you can always find a handful that don't make much sense .... until you investigate them further!

I'd like to see about 100 billion dollars in additional "earmarks" for useful local public works projects added to the bill!

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Public works is fine but the earmark system is flawed
It means that the money goes to the district/state where the congressman or senator has the most influence rather than where the money would be serve the interests of the country. That doesn't mean that all earmarks are bad or unnecessary but in some instances the money could be appropriated in a better fashion.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. In principle, I agree.
I think it would be better to give each Congressman an allotment for projects, which would be vetted jointly by the Ethics and Appropriations Committees to ensure that a) there wasn't corruption involved and b) that they are useful projects. That way seniority and influence didn't really factor and that Congressmen could still direct money to local needs.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Harry is right he "doesn't run the caucus for Bayh" he runs it for Lieberman.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. Feingold and Bayh are playing politics while folks suffer. Welcome to the Dem circular firing squad.
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 03:52 PM by ClarkUSA
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Seems out of character
for Feingold to be doing this, don't you think? I'm trying to make sense of it.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. That's what I've been thinking - wtf??
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. It's not out of character at all.
Feingold is for Feingold. If you're looking for a truly Democratic version of John McCain, this is it. He's only interested in making a name for himself, and to do it, he'll take the most contrarian stance possible that will keep him elected within an allegedly progressive framework.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Both are up for re-election in 2010
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 03:52 PM by AllentownJake
and expect to have challengers that use 1994 tactics. Both are fearing a closer than anticipated race and are trying to hold on to their seats.

If Barack is still at over 60% approval in 2010 they walk to re-election. If Barack slips in approval they can say they stood up to him.

Its called hedging.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Probably, but it's incredibly selfish IMO
Obama and his amazing organization turned Indiana blue for the first time since 1964. Having accomplished that will do exponentially more to help Bayh's chances for re-election than any pandering to the right will do. You would think that the least Bayh could do to return the favor is to back Obama on these crucial spending bills.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. Why wasn't this done to Lieberman?
He has been much worse. He ran against the Democratic nominee after he lost the Senate primary.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. I think Feingold is shrewd, Bayh is just a jerk
Who has a lot of those earmarks that McCain is complaining about? Lindsey Graham. Lindsey will cry like a little baby if they are taken out. So all Feingold is doing is agreeing with McCain on an amendment.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
18. Lol - if Bayh is so against earmarks, why did he include "his own" in the first place?
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. May I remind everyone that this resolution sucks?
It's a holdover from the last Congress; it's supported (privately) by the GOP hacks; it's littered with special interest trash.

Maybe if Harry Reid had grown a set of stones and come up with a decent spending package, he wouldn't have to worry about this preening and strutting act.

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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. wow, that is revealing
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jonestonesusa Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Feingold is continuing the William Proxmire traditions
by voting against earmarks. He has done it consistently. I live in the Badger State, and while I wrote to his office to condemn his inexcusable silence while his buddy John McCain was resorting to gutter politics against Obama, I support Feingold most of the time. At times I'd like to see him lose the maverick label and give more props to his base on some policy issues. After all, African American voters in Wisconsin are a core part of his winning electoral margins, but you never seem to see Feingold's name near any high-profile legislation to help urban centers,and he played the "senatorial courtesy" card while putting John Ashcroft in charge of civil rights law.

When all is said and done, though, if you can't have perfect good is still a blessing. I'm glad Feingold's our senator.
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