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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:18 PM
Original message
Clinton 'reset button' gift to Russian FM gets lost in translation

Clinton 'reset button' gift to Russian FM gets lost in translation

From CNN Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jill Dougherty

(CNN) — When it comes to Russia, the Obama administration has been talking about “pressing the reset button.” It’s meant to symbolize a possible new start in U.S./Russian relations, which “crashed” after Russia invaded Georgia last August.

So when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton greeted Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in Geneva Friday before sitting down to their working dinner, she was all smiles when she presented him a small green box with a ribbon.

Lavrov opened it and, inside, there was a red button with the Russian word “peregruzka” printed on it.

"I would like to present you with a little gift that represents what President Obama and Vice President Biden and I have been saying and that is: 'We want to reset our relationship, and so we will do it together.' …

"We worked hard to get the right Russian word. Do you think we got it?" she asked Lavrov, laughing.

“You got it wrong," said Lavrov, as both diplomats laughed.

“It should be “perezagruzka” (the Russian word for reset)," said Lavrov."This says ‘peregruzka,’ which means ‘overcharged.’”

A quick comeback – and recovery - from Clinton: "We won't let you do that to us, I promise. We mean it and we look forward to it."

Ever the diplomat, Lavrov says he’ll put the “reset” button on his desk.

more


LOL!



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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Love it. nt
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Russians have humor similiar to ours. They'll 'get' it. nt
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hmmm, me thinks that heads will roll
as soon as Hil finds out who screwed up the translation.

LOL!!!

:7
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. It looks like some bozo didn't know how to spell! What a collector's item it will be! nt
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Russian is a pretty common language at State.
I can't believe that one person didn't know the correct translation of the word. Thank goodness they both laughed it off. Still, it must have been a bit embarrassing for her.

:-(
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. What is Russian for "this is hugh!111!"?
:rofl:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yeah, it's not as bad as the whole DVD thing, right? n/t
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's funny
:rofl:
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RollWithIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Uh.... someone is so getting fired....
Or maybe they did it on purpose?
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. The hits just keep on comin'.
First she tells the EU Parliament that she "doesn't understand multi-party democracy" and that our own democracy "has been around a lot longer than European democracy", then she calls foreign policy chief Javier Solana "High Representative Solano", then calls EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner "Benito", and now this.

She da bomb.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Still beats the hell out of:
Is our children learning?

and

potatoe (sic)...

At least her mistake was in a foreign language, not English.

Doug D.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cute idea
too bad it got lost in translation ... Hillary really is a cutie. :-)
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8 track mind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. That reminded me of my favorite bloom county strip!!!!
Oliver hacked into "Pravda" and gave it a different headline. Enjoy!!!

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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. John F. Kennedy: Ich Bin Ein Berliner...
translation: I am a jelly donut!

:rofl:

He should have said Ich Bin Berliner....


:rofl:
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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Jelly Donut urban legend...
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. The formulation was grammatically false.
In German the indefinite article is not used when referring to nationality, regionality, or profession. While the Berliner do not call their jelly donuts "Berliner", people in southern Germany do. To this day they still have a laugh at the faux pas, albeit in good spirit as they knew what Kennedy meant.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Nicht im Berlin...
im Deutschland ausser Berlin das Delikat-essen ist Berliner; im Berlin ist Pfannkuchen. Leute sind nicht Krapfen.

In German you either have one word that means nineteen things, or nineteen words for one thing. Look at a very common food item--a patty of ground beef, fried and served on a bun. In the area that was West Germany this dish is a Hamburger. In what was East Germany it was a Grillette because it would be bad to name something after a city in West Germany. (They don't have the dish we call a hot dog in Germany. They have currywurst--a vastly superior food made by cutting up a sausage, covering it in ketchup and sprinkling it with curry powder.)
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. If we weren't laughing at the SNAFU's we'd be crying
I hope they get a handle on these gaffes, but you have to admit it is kind of funny. And the rest of the world can have a few laughs at our expense, but I don't want to see us viewed as the crazy freshmen scamps of world diplomacy.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I know what you mean.
I cringed when I read of the screw up. With so many people at State who speak Russian, who the hell botched the translation of one single word???? It makes us look like amateurs. There again go the silly Americans..........

x(
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. I think it's funny too. Unintentionally.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yeah, some State employee got it horribly wrong.
Of course, it's worse than the article lets on because they used the Roman alphabet.

Wrong word in the wrong alphabet. You'd think somebody would at least know Russian is traditionally written in Cyrillic.

Hell, you'd think that *Clinton*, Madam Secretary of State, would have realized that.

However, Lavrov also got it a bit wrong, too. Sure, peregruzka *can* mean 'overcharge' in a few very narrow, specialized meanings. "Overload" is a better all-purpose translation. He was probably confused by Clinton's response.

In any event, perezagruzka is still, to my mind, better translated as 'reboot'. 'Reload' sounds odd.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Hitting the RESET button on foreign policy started in Kerry's office last fall, then Biden used it
I'm not surprised Clinton's office tried using it, but, why not give her something she could use and be seen as leading?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Wow, who doesn't know Russian is written in a different alphabet
That was correctly done in all the 1960s era cold war pictures. Thanks for the information on the words. In context, "reboot" is likely what was meant by Clinton - who was not the first person to use that analogy - I know of two, yet I doubt they were alone. (Not being William Saffire of the NYT, I don't know where it started.)
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. The lack of Cyrillic letters was inexcuseable.
"Hi, we're too stupid to translate one word, but our alphabet is still the most important one."

I know what you mean about "perezagruzka," but of course "vozvrat v iskhodnoe polozhenie" wouldn't fir on the box.

In any case, out of all the Russians they have at State, I can't see how this mistake could have been made at all. Not just the translation, not just the lack of Cyrillic, but the fact that someone didn't manage to talk Hillary out of the stupid joke to begin with. Anyone with a chuvstvo yazyka in Russian would know that the joke just doesn't work.

What was truly embarrassing to me is the stupid attempts to recover from it instead of just being adult and saying "we screwed up."

From the NYT:

"You got it wrong," he replied, explaining that the Americans had come up with the Russian word for overcharged.

"We won’t let you do that to us," she said quickly, with a full-throated laugh.


Even if Lavrov had meant "obschitat'," would would have been funny about Hillary's remark? Nothing. Certainly nothing funny enough for a "full-throated laugh." Still, she misunderstood him and came up with a remark that turned out to be just as non-applicable as it was unfunny in the context she thought she was in. So even if Lavrov's definition HAD meant "charged too much money" instead of "flooded with too much voltage / too many amperes / whatever," Hillary should have just said "oops, sorry, we screwed up" instead of trying to make lame humor where none existed and silence would have been better. The original box idea was stupid to begin with, you blew it, so just let it die.

Then, to make matters worse and prove she can't admit a mistake, again from the NYT: Mrs. Clinton said the faulty translation was more apt than the correct one because in resetting ties, both sides faced an "overload" of work.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Jesus fucking CHRIST. You blew it in every way possible, and you're not funny. LET IT DIE.

Please, no more shit like this. All of my friends in Russia are e-mailing me, laughing about this. The Russians are laughing, but not with her. She really, really made an ass out of herself when she could have just shut up. Until her pathetic attempts to rescue the situation, every Russian would have just assumed that her subordinates let her down, but her "comebacks" were, to the average Russian, a lot worse than the missed translation. Russians pride themselves on their language and don't blame people for screwing it up, but the lack of Cyrillic and Hillary's amazingly lame "comebacks" are what ruined the day. She came off as an ignorant American who couldn't admit a mistake. Truly embarrassing.
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bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. Maybe they had a cute gift planned for Brown too
and chickened out when this one tanked.. that might explain those DVDs.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Oh my, if Obama had given
the red button, some people would be calling for his impeachment.

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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. Russians have a good sense of humor and at least they do not have to look at Condi's new shoes
There are more important things to worry about like discussing actual issues relating to the Russians.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Well, Condi figured that if they were busy looking at her legs
encased in those "f**k me" boots, then they would be too distracted to notice Bushes toxic policies.

:D
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Russians don't get on us for translation mistakes.
They take pride in their language and appreciate any attempt we make at speaking it.

I have a lot of friends in Russia (both Americans and Russians; I'm referring to the Russians here), and most wrote to me about this incident. Hillary's stupid "We won't let you do that to us (insert artificial laugh at completely unfunny remark here)" came off as bad - not because she took Lavrov's "overcharged" definition incorrectly (she thought it meant too much money, but it meant too much voltage), but then later she said the translation erroe was apt because both sides have an "overload" of work.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

My Russian friends all pretty much said the same thing: she came off as ignorant, arrogant and unwilling to admit a mistake. The fact that the incorrect word was rendered in our letters instead of Cyrillic didn't come off well, either - they don't blame her for not speaking Russian, but they all thought our top diplomat should have noticed the Latin letters.

She came off horribly over there. The general consensus was that had she just admitted that she and her subordinates screwed up, she could have gotten out of it looking okay with only the Cyrillic mistake to explain. Instead, she dug herself in deeper with every stupid remark, every "full-throated laugh" (the NYT's words, not mine) and every utterly lame attempt at humor. Average Russians think she's an ass, and I don't blame them.

My American friends over there tell me their Russian friends are saying the same thing. It really was an embarrassment to any one of us who cares what average Russians think of us and our diplomats.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I understand that some people may have been upset,
but Hillary didn't personally translate the word and Minister Lavrov appears to have gotten over it:

State Department officials professed not to know who was responsible for the error. But Mrs. Clinton was accompanied by several diplomats and White House officials who had lived in Russia and speak Russian — any of whom conceivably could have caught it.

Recognizing that the error threatened to overshadow the substance of the meeting, the State Department dispatched several senior officials to brief reporters traveling with Mrs. Clinton.

There were no concrete agreements, the officials said, but the tone of the meeting was constructive — which was an achievement in itself, given that relations between the United States and Russia had chilled to nearly cold-war levels after the war in Georgia last summer.

“I appreciate the openness and willingness of Minister Lavrov to discuss any and all issues,” Mrs. Clinton said. “Nothing was off the table. It was, Sergey, a good beginning from my perspective.”

Mr. Lavrov, who had a famously stormy relationship with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, concurred.

“I think we can manage to arrive at a common view, both in the context of strategic offensive weapons and missile defense,” he said. Asked whether he and Mrs. Clinton got along, he smiled and said, “I venture to say we have a wonderful personal relationship.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/07/world/europe/07diplo.html?_r=1

;-)
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. Lavrov was a good sport and is glad not to have to deal with Kondi anymore.
As the title of my last post indicates, it doesn't matter if Hillary translated the word or not, that's not what made her look bad. Everything after Lavrov pointed out that State got the wrong word was fumbled by Hillary. She made an ass out of herself. I wouldn't let Kondi off the hook for such buffoonery, and I won't give Hillary a pass, either. Before she makes us look like idiots again, she needs to realize that admitting mistakes without stupid attempts to wriggle out of them isn't the end of the world and that she's not gifted with much of a sense of humor.

It's amazing that so many people are focusing on Obama's DVD set and so few people are talking about this one. From the very start, the very concept of the stupid "reset button" joke, the whole thing was handled badly. As the NYT pointed out, "But Mrs. Clinton was accompanied by several diplomats and White House officials who had lived in Russia and speak Russian — any of whom conceivably could have caught it." And yet Hillary actually said "we worked really hard" to get the right word? Yeah, that made us look smart. From that point on, she got nothing right until Lavrov let her off the hook in front of the media. Nothing. By the way, how tough is it to get a couple native speakers to QC one translation?

By the way, the word the press gives as correct, "perezagrtuzka," really means "reload" or "reboot." Russian doesn't have one word that conveys the concept of "reset" as we understand it; literally it would be "vozvrat v iskhodnoe polozhenie / sostoyanie" ("return to original position / condition"). Anyone with a feel for Russian could have told her that her stupid little joke was a dud from the get-go. She's the top diplomat for our country and several times broke the cardinal rule of diplomacy: never try to be funny when you don't know for absolute sure what you're doing. In her case, I'd add "never try to be funny when you're not."

Bottom line: unless she had spit directly into Lavrov's face and taken a dump on his plate, she couldn't have done worse. The NYT is doing her a favor by pretending that the crux of her poor performance was the translation, when in fact that was the least of her problems and the only one she herself wasn't responsible for. Her performance was the sort of Keystone Kops crap I'd expect from Bush.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. "She's not gifted with much of a sense of humor"..............
It is obvious that you do not know Hillary. Aside from her intelligence, one of the salient things about Hillary is precisely her sense of humor and easy laughter. I have been around her over the years often enough to attest to that.

Yes, "mistakes were made" as the saying goes, but it was a minor gaffe not the mountain that you are making it out to be. She didn't try to "wiggle" out of and not admit the mistake, she did what most people would have done at an awkward moment, she used humor to minimize the incident. You appear to be more concerned about the incident than Lavrov, who said later on that they had 2 productive hours of meetings.

:eyes:
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Actually, she did not
use humor to minimize the incident; she made it more awkward with a complete lack humor and a complete lack of understanding of what Lavrov meant. Even if she had understood him correctly, where would the humor have been in "we won't let you do that to us?" The word "humor" is indicative of something funny, and does not mean "something stupid and utterly humorless followed by what the NYT calls a full-throated laugh." Laughing after you say something dumb doesn't make it funny.

And yes, Lavrov said they had productive meetings. What was he supposed to say? He's a diplomat, too. He let Hillary off the hook after she made an ass out of herself.

Why this bothers me is because of what I am reading from my friends in Russia, all of who came away with the notion that Hillary was ignorant, arrogant and refused to admit a mistake. That remark of hers about the translation mistake being apt because both sides had an "overload" of work, I hope you'll admit, couldn't be classified as funny, either, and it sure wasn't taken as clever over there (or by me).

You say you've been around her long enough to see a sense of humor? Good for you. Next time you see her, tell her to stop hiding it. Anyone who thought the reset button thing was clever or funny (even if the translation had been correct) has no sense of humor that I can see, and an entire country on the other side of the world missed it, too.

:eyes:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. This was a minor B.S. gaffe.
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 10:49 AM by Beacool
If Russian - US relations are going to depend on one poorly translated word on a gag gift, then we are in worse shape than I thought. But, I don't believe that "an entire country" is upset about it.

Hillary may be many things, ignorant is not one of them. You and your Russians friends don't like her? Fine, that's your prerogative. In the overall scheme of things, this was a non-issue.

:shrug:
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. I agree that it likely won't change US/Russian relations
especially if Hillary learns from this the things that Zavulon notes. The fact is Hillary is very new at being a diplomat. Learning about the culture and being careful not to do anything that could be seen as negative is important. You have said that member(s) of your family are diplomats - so you likely know this better than me. There will be times where the nature of our policy will anger or disappoint leaders in another country - this though was just a stupid gag - that very likely was NOT HRC's idea.

I doubt there is any harm done, because it is not important and there is a huge amount of goodwill for Obama and for her. That may not last forever, but it exists now. The key that there was some concern was that the article said that officials were sent to spin the press on it.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. A very reasonable response, but
I have to say that your "The fact is Hillary is very new at being a diplomat" is exactly what I didn't support her nomination. Diplomacy at that level is something that requires precision, experience and knowledge that she just doesn't have. I hope that she'll be quicker to learn on the job than her first meeting with Lavrov makes me believe she'll be.

Condi wasn't good at it, either, but in high-level diplomacy it makes little difference whether you come off as a snotty bitch like she did or someone who is clueless like Hillary did; first impressions are hugely important (both blew that one in a big way_, and offenses are rarely forgotten (well-intentioned or not).
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. I didn't support her nomination either and remember when the early
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 07:32 AM by karynnj
"What about HRC for SoS" threads started. I was mystified why someone who was far more knowledgeable on domestic issues than foreign policy would be considered. There was not one foreign policy issue (or global warming where there will likely be a treaty) where she was even likely to be listed as one of three Senators who were most informed - and that is comparing to just Senators.

I think HRC for SoS was a gamble - a gamble that as intelligent as she is and with the goodwill the world has for Bill Clinton, she would be a big asset internationally. That it removed a person who could have become the Democratic lightening rod for intra-party criticism was there too. The down side is that she could be too flamboyant and not culturally sensitive enough for the position. (I can't imagine any diplomat joking about Ghandi working in a gas station.)

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Well, I have the same misgivings about Obama.
I think he's a bigger gamble, but I'll give him a year before making any judgments. It all depends how the economy is doing by then and how everything else is panning out. Until then I'll have a wait and see attitude.

:shrug:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
53. Of course it was a cringing moment.
No one wants to make that kind of mistake, particularly with the Russians, but Lavrov ate it up. He's reportedly a dour man who never got along with Condi ever since their very first meeting. He had quite a different reaction with Hillary. Everyone commented that they had never seen the man smile so much at one of these events. He laughed off the button incident and was still smiling after their 2 hour dinner. Who knows whether we will get things done with the Russians, but at least it was a good beginning (despite the button fiasco).

We have never had an SOS like Hillary. She's very popular overseas (Bill is too) and is known by just her first name like Cher or Madonna. I think that she'll do great because she combines a wonkish, disciplined mind with the charm and charisma of a seasoned politician.

Read what the WP had to say about her style of diplomacy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030701765.html

;-)
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. As I've labored to explain,
the bad translation was the least of the problems (that was actually evident in the subject line in my first post in this thread, I don't know how you missed it). She came across as clueless about Russia and unwilling to admit a mistake. Her attempts at humor were an abysmal failure and her attempts at responding to / explaining the translation mistake were laughable.

She made an ass out of herself, and we need better - but if you want to focus on the translation mistake, go ahead. i agree with you that the mistake itself was a non-issue, but everything else - from the lack of Cyrillic letters (which she should have known was bad) to her every word on the subject, she looked like a clueless political appointee who isn't up to the job and an insincere dolt who thinks that fake laughter is preferable to just saying "okay, we screwed up."
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. I'm done arguing this point.
Suffice it to say that if any foreign minister makes the mistake of thinking that Hillary is nothing more than a dumb, clueless blonde celebrity chick, they will do so at their own peril. As many others have come to find out who underestimated her.......

:eyes:
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #54
60. Blah, blah, blah...
... :eyes:
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. It was just a bit of small talk
polite chatter. It's not that big a deal.

At least Hillary is making an effort to get around the world and meet people in the first few weeks of the administration.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Thanks for the second hand Russian perspective
What I wondered before the misspelling was mentioned is that it seemed dumb because of all the historical comments on the President being the one who could push "THE BUTTON" - meaning nuclear war.

Seriously, we would think this a pretty weird thing to do if it were Condi.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. During the Cold War,
as scared as Americans were that the Soviets were going to nuke us, the Soviets were even more scared that we'd do the same to them (let's face facts: our propaganda machine was good back then, but theirs was better). The idea of a "joke" involving a big red button that Americans would press in respect to Russia was so misguided that I honestly thought everyone would get that, which is why i didn't even think to bring it up. Now that I see the responses I'm getting, I also see you may well be the only one who picked up on it. I never would have imagined that to be the case.

Thank you for having a clue. I guarantee you that Lavrov, as well as millions of Russians, thinks that she is an entirely ignorant tool who wouldn't admit a mistake to save her life. What I didn't take into account, along with the notion that some people might not get the symbolism of a big red button, is that during the primaries there were people here who would defend anything Hillary did (her laughable Bosnian sniper fire lie, for example). I just got my reminder today.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. The fact is that Hillary is very lucky
that the liberal to moderate elements in the media are strongly behind the Obama administration and many are pundits who pulled for Hillary in the primaries and many on the right might not see a problem with it. Their current story is that her star power is very beneficial to America. In fairness, Hillary coming to a country does get more coverage than a typical SoS would. I hope that people are privately telling Clinton why this was a mistake - so she could be more careful and considerate in the future.

The disturbing thing is that even if the red button (and could it be a worse color?) was HRC's idea, someone had to have it made and people likely knew about it. Is there no one on her staff who didn't see the connotation we did? HRC is a few years older than me and we grew up within the same TV/radio market - the references to "the button" were plentiful - even think of "Eve of Destruction" which was heavily played - "If the button is pushed, there's no running away" Were people afraid to tell her it was a bad idea? (A big problem is that this was not an unscripted gaffe, it was actually planned out.)

This was a gaffe of Bosnian sniper fire proportions - that clearly required "corrections' by senior staff. It might be that there is an inherent contradiction between having a bigger than life political figure in a diplomatic position - where a more thoughtful personality might be needed.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. Hillary is very lucky? That's funny!!!
More like we are lucky that she accepted the position. There are more seasoned diplomats out there, but none that would engender as much goodwill overseas as Hillary. Furthermore, most people at State are very happy that she's the new Secretary. And as you pointed out before, I am in a position to know it.

;)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. My saying that Hillary is lucky here does not preclude that we are lucky
I also said that the goodwill people have towards Clinton is an asset.

The fact of the matter is that HRC is in this case lucky that neither the media or Russia wanted this to be an issue. You certainly know from the 1990s that something like this could have been 24/7 news speaking of the gaffe had the people in the media wanted that to happen.

As to whether anyone else could have engendered more goodwill - it is completely impossible to know how anyone else would have done because Obama chose Hillary.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. Between this and the Brown gift
I'm wondering. I really don't think anybody is anything but happy, in not-the-US, to have Hillary there rather than Condi and Obama rather than Bush/McCrook or whatever horrible pick McCrook would have made for SOS. Please, people in these countries are not that touchy at this point. Anyone who is must be that country's version of a freeper.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. Were you alive in the 1960s or 1970s?
In the context of the USSR, what did "the button" mean? That button was always described as RED as well. I would bet that among any number of Russian diplomats that was there first thought. This was a brain dead idea - likely on the part of a HRC staffer.

Does that mean that people in Russia are not happy Obama is President? - no. It does not even mean that there will be a negative impact on US Russian relations. It won't impact the negotiations among the career diplomats on either side. Each country's interests remain the same. It is very cavalier to say that anyone in Russia who has problems with HRC's gag gift is a Russian version of a freeper.

The Brown gift was not that kind of problem - the criticism was just that little thought had to go into it. (But how much thought usually goes into these gifts?) If the 2 UK people I have any contact with are typical, the UK is happier with Obama than Brown.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. I never knew these gifts existed until Obama's movies to Brown!
I'm series.

I was a child in the 60s and a teenager in the 70s. I have some vague notion regarding the buttons and the red phone and the possibility of nuclear war - actually that was pretty scary. But whether the Soviets thought of it in those terms, I don't know.

These giftgates seem as silly as all get out to me, just my opinion.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. I would hate to be the State employee who flubbed it
On the carpet, facing the Clinton wrath. Yikes.

(one things I learned from gangster films: don't stand on the tarp)

:scared:
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
58. Or one of the many State employees who approved it.
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 12:18 PM by Orsino
Or the SecState who let herself be made ridiculous thereby, for that matter. This presumably-innocent series of mistakes has "tone-deaf" written all over it. Someone was very careless, to be sure, but there was some fail at every level above whoever made the first error.

If you're gonna give a gift that is entirely symbolic, make sure it's the right goddamned symbol.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
30. At least they didn't print the Russian word for "Launch Now"
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. DOH! I thought it said "Lunch Now"
Oops, my bad!

:rofl:
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
33. I loved Hillary's laugh
when the mistranslation was relayed to her.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. I liked the whole thing..I saw it on TDS
last night..it was classic class.
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
37. It's not exactly our week for "Gift Giving".. is it?
Oh well.. we have 7 years and 10 more months to get it all worked out. ;)
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
40. At least this gaffe means there's more coverage
of Hillary meeting the Russian foreign minister.

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Phoonzang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. At least the misspelling didn't say "launch". nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
61. Even if the translation had been correct, the whole thing was cutesy and embarrassing.
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