Obama sent letter supporting No on Prop 8 and it was never used!!!!

[Pisces]

This from Andrew Sullivan's blog:

We discover they actually chose not to use a letter from Obama that said, among other things:

I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states ... Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks.

Every time you feel exasperated by the uselessness of much of the gay political establishment, you realize you are not exasperated enough. (This is Sullivan's comment not mine)

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/03/the-enraging-in.html

[Cha]

1. Wow! I read an article in Rolling Stone

that said those opposing Prop 8 were not organized enough but I didn't take it as the only opinion.

Obama sent a letter and it wasn't used?! Why the heck not?

[AllentownJake]

2. It was taken for granted that it wouldn't pass

People assumed something like this couldn't pass in California.

They were wrong. Its why there has been searching for a scape goat.

[Cha]

3. They really did have an indepth

article in Rolling Stone about the disorganization of the activists opposing it..but, I sure didn't want to bring it on DU when everyone was so hurt by the outcome.

I'm thinking they're going to be better organized the next time and they could use Obama's leter to them.

[angee_is_mad]

8. I thought it was the Blacks

that made it failed:sarcasm:

[vaberella]

11. Hit that on the head. I was like, for people who call themselves progressive they love racist

ideology. It was post after post after post. I was like these people have questionable morality as though Blacks didn't suffer from the same problem with the passing of this bill.

[Vanje]

43. "they"?

Who do you mean when you say, "they"?

I really want to know, because, it sounds a little like you're accusing "gays" of using racist ideology.
That would be a major accusation.

[Raineyb]

62. Presumably "they" would be all those folks who were accusing black people

of being the reason that Prop 8 passed.

Are you having a problem with your pronouns today?

Regards

[Vanje]

64. I thought you meant gay people. It seemed so.

I missed the election night discussions at DU. I was away from home, in another state (not California!)campaigning for Obama.


I blame MYSELF for measure 8 passing. I should have been in California!
See my post below.

[Raineyb]

72. I saw a lot of people blaming black people for the passage of Prop 8 after the election.

They were not all gay.

Regards

[DWilliamsamh]

116. No... sorry there was no "implied" "gays are racist."

I think you are being less than objective in your reading.

[Vanje]

73. Thats cool.

I'd like to hear what the person who's post I was responding to
(vabarella) meant by "they".

("all the gays blamed the blacks on DU". a pre-edit quote by vabarella.)

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vanje]

44. It sounds like you're using ver poorly delivered sarcasm

to accuse gays of being racist.

[Number23]

94. It sounds like you are using a poorly spelled sentence

to accuse me of accusing gays of racism.

Since I'm sure that you are fully aware that a) the gay community is as racially and ethnically diverse as most other communities in this country and b) that this board was OVERFLOWING with a small but astoundingly loud number of people (gay and straight) who accused blacks of being a major if not THE reason Prop 8 passed and endless discussions of the black community's "latent," "blatant," and/or "explicit" homophobia, I think we can both avoid your attempt to goad people into an ugly and untrue conversation.

[Vanje]

95. I stand by my poorly spelled statement.

More a typo, actually, than an out and out misspelling.

[Number23]

98. Your choice. And I stand by my statement as well. No question that the other posts in this thread

corroborate what I've said.

[Cha]

56. Nah, it was never the

Blacks..I hated to see that crap floating around.

This is the article, fyi..Not being in Cali, I don't know if the article is a 100% accurate.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/24603325/samesex_setback

[Vanje]

65. Thankyou

The idea that "the gays" blame "the blacks" is a right-wingers wet dream.

[goclark]

106. Yes, I recall many that seemed to feel that way at the time

Hope that those voices have had time to rethink that one.

[Raineyb]

110. I'd prefer an apology

but as one didn't appear when it first came out that the accusations were bunk I doubt that there's going to be one now.

:shrug:

Regards

[dkf]

28. Next time?

Can they redo this?

[vaberella]

10. What search? This board and the news blamed Black people for Prop 8.

Then when Obama didn't repeal anything yet..without gathering the information people called him a homophobe and accused him of hating Gays but using their votes and much more.

[angee_is_mad]

13. That's right

I remember it vividly.

[Number23]

24. What's to remember? Some folks were still at it a few damn days ago!

[AllentownJake]

26. They blamed all the minority groups

Blacks got hit but so did hispanics.

As far as President Obama, he brought some of that ire on himself with the Rick Warren thing.

The fact they had a letter to take into African American churches from the most respected African American in the country and didn't use it shows they didn't take the threat seriously.

[Vanje]

34. "They"?

nt

[AllentownJake]

35. I'm sorry I don't live in California

I live in PA. If there was this type of thing on the ballot I would work against it despite knowing it was going to be charging windmills here, however, I can't afford to fly out and help Californians on strategies on issues that are on their ballots. So if you were against Prop 8 and involved in that campaign you are they. If you were involved in the congressional campaign in my district you are they too because I was on President Obama's campaign.

If we are talking about the Obama campaign or OFA, or the Lehigh County Democratic Party its we with me if you are talking about another campaign I was not personally involved in it is they.

If you were on here for the Warren fiasco you would understand my support and anger over this issue. You should probably not instantly make inferences and acting like everything someone says is a slight. It doesn't help the cause.

[Vanje]

80. I just wanted to know more specifically, what you meant

when you said "they blamed minority groups".

I'm a little defensive. The media was tooting on about how "gays blamed blacks" for passing of Prop 8.


I take exception.
I dont blame minorities.

I blame myself. I blame my own complacency. My attention was on the presidential election.

Do you really think my post "hurt the cause"?

edited: grammatical

[AllentownJake]

81. No however it is just advice

Even if I meant it in an offensive way starting a fight over it isn't going to get you anywhere. From the Obama campaign I learned when someone called me a baby killer, an anti-gay slur, or an n-word lover it was better to just say thank you have a nice day and move on to someone who you could talk to.

Californians who want equal rights made a mistake in that they assumed that all their neighbors agreed with them. If there was more of an effort out there this wouldn't be passed. Lesson learned for all progressives and progressive causes. Never take anything for granted. It will be 2012 till it can be reversed.

[Vanje]

85. I'm sorry you were called awful things

while working on Obama campaign.
I worked on the campaign both in (red)Idaho and (relatively blue) Oregon, and phoned to many other states as well, and received overall very positive responses.

As to those unpleasant slurs , Welcome to my world.
for 50 years, I've been responding to the anti-gay shit one hears almost daily, with "thank you have a nice day".
It hasnt worked well for us gays.

It isnt just Californians who were invested in the prop 8 battle. It was a gut-blow to gays nationwide.
It was a huge political mistake to regard it as a state issue.
I was distracted, busy working on the presidential election of a lifetime.
I bet I'm not the only one.


I find those DUers who tell me that a comment I made , has put them off the fight for gay rights, are very questionable allies anyway.
A search into posting histories usually shows them to be , shall we say, unstaunch in their support of GLTB issues.

The cause will not suffer much because a DU-er moves "Milk" to the rear of his Netflix que, because of something I said on a message board.

edited :typo

[AllentownJake]

86. It wasn't every door

maybe twice a weekend or a few people at a fair or other public event. It would happen though every weekend from February till November...more so oddly enough during the primary when I was only knocking on democrat doors, take that for what its worth.

A bigot is a bigot and you can't change that by confronting them in an argument. You are going to walk away angry, and they only feel emboldened in their bigotry because you got angry they can dehumanize you in their minds. If you are nice to them and polite (defend yourself physically if you have to) its quite harder for them to rationalize you are the evil person that they think you are.

[Vanje]

92. Nod and smile , maybe give the folks a little tap dance.

Or stay in the back of the bus.

Like a lot of gays, I've been nodding and smiling until I was very literally nauseated by my own own insipid acquiescence to bigotry.
I did that for decades, every time I heard a homophobic slur.

Someone at a family gathering says some dumb thing about "Adam and Steve". I smile and pass the fucking potatos. Wouldnt want to disturb the happy family dinner with my special interst issue, now would I? Must maintain the "nice".
Cowardice.

Working at a kids science camp, I stayed quiet while they called each other "homo", "fairy" and "fag". Did I say anything? No. I might lose my job if they knew I was a lesbian.
Fucking Cowardice!

It was a conscious decision.
I KNEW that if I spoke up, my life would become a battleground.
I did not want my life to become a battleground.
Being quiet seemed well reasoned. It seemed for the best.

I remember the LAST time. Thinking about it still makes me shake with shame.

A workman was over fixing some fencing. He was talking about his military service experience, and was saying in very graphic violent terms what he would do if he thought one of their soldier peers was gay. (Use your imagination here. I'm sure this kind of talk is not foreign to you.)
I said nothing. I smiled. I avoided unpleasantness. I maintained the "nice".
Cowardice.
Low loathsome slithering cowardice.

I have never been lower.
I'd finally had disgusted myself into realizing that my life was already a battleground.

I vowed that day, NEVER to let a single comment, slur, "joke" go by without comment. EVER.

Funny thing is once I started standing up, the battle moved from inside me to outside me. Theres a battle, always has been , but my life is NOT the battlefield.

So. I didnt really intend to give you my "coming out" tale, but there it is.
Other gays will have similar experiences.

That is why I wont be quiet for the sake of maintaining the "nice".
The "nice" was killing me.
If an "ally" to the struggle for GLBT civil rights, needs me to maintain the "nice", then they are not an ally of mine.

[AllentownJake]

96. I had an election to win

Standing there arguing with someone who would never vote for my candidate was not a priority. Standing around and arguing with bigots isn't a priority of mine either. I will volunteer at the gay pride festival locally to shield people as they walk in from the American Taliban, I'm not going to debate them because I will never sway their thinking. Plus they want someone to debate them. They want to go back and feel that they did God's work. If they are ignored. They didn't. That is the way I look at it. If someone tells me they honestly don't know I'll talk to them about an issue. If someone is firmly a devout believer of something I will no more convince them that their view is wrong as they will mine. I will not waste my breath or my anger to get into a fight over things I can't change because at the end of the day, no matter how offended I act, no matter how skillful my debating skills are with a bigot, that bigot is going to walk into the voting booth and vote the way they were going to vote. They are going to make their jokes, and they are going to attack me personally. The person on the fence, I might convince however, I might be able to sway them.

I'm more Ghandi and Martin Luther King jr. than Maclom X

[SemperEadem]

108. exactly!

Californians who want equal rights made a mistake in that they assumed that all their neighbors agreed with them.

They--the organizers of the "No on 8" campaign--completely underestimated the resistence to their position.

[Raineyb]

71. No. They most certainly did not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4405273

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7785900#7785941

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7785900#7785950

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7785900#7786404

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7786978
The above thread had the added bonus of an asshole who thought it was open season on black people and that blatantly racist language was acceptable. I don't think any of his posts survived deletion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7785920#7786194

With all due respect but I didn't see any posts calling out the Latino community the way they called out the black community. People were looking for someone to blame and the blame fell squarely on the back of the black community.

I remember it all too well and the scorn was not equally distributed. Although there are plenty of people who would rewrite history to say otherwise. (At this time, I am not saying that you are one of those people for the record.)

As for the letter, well I suppose someone somewhere will find a way to blame black people for that too. :shrug:

I have no argument on the Rick Warren thing as I did not think he was an appropriate choice either.

Regards

[Numba6]

101. funny, but I keep getting the same response when I click on those links

"You are ignoring the author of this thread"

I do that w/ all the posters who claim Obama is the same as Bush -- even those claiming to be "left"

[Raineyb]

103. You have a more discerning list of things to read than I have.

My ignore list never stays populated for long.

Regards

[Number23]

102. Damn good links, Rainey!! Damn good!

You win today's Best of Bookmarking award...

[Vanje]

47. "This board"?!!

This whole frigging board?
You're saying,"This board "blamed black people for Prop 8" ?!!!

"The news" : I think you're right there.
Thats where I first heard the idea. Those empty suits and talking heads paraded out the idea that gays blamed blacks for Prop 8.
Those corporate supported corn-fed hair-doos in suits know how to work the wedge issues : Divide and Conquer. Thats their job.

The media shits it.
I'm sorry that you felt you had to eat their shit.

[AllentownJake]

53. Your having alot of outrage over wording

There were people on this board attacking the African American community over prop 8. It was a minority and it was not limited to gay members of DU.

Getting all politically correct on people who are prone to support the cause of gay rights is not going to win you many friends. You might want to tone it down if your really looking to win friends and influence people.

[Vanje]

63. My post was a call out on the media

The idea that gays blame blacks is a right-wingers wet dream.
The media birthed that meme.

I will not tone it it down

[Vanje]

75. dupe

[AntiFascist]

100. Talk about painting with an extremely broad brush...

so, everyone on this board blamed black people for Prop 8? That's ridiculous and not true at all.

Obama did, in fact, exhibit some religious bigotry toward the gay community when he spoke out in favor of heterosexual-only marriage at the presidential debate, just prior to the election. This does not mean that the black community as a whole deserved to be blamed for the passage of Prop 8 and there was plenty of criticism of anyone on this board who claimed otherwise.

[DevonRex]

32. So, they rejected Obama as an ally before the vote. And then blamed him and blacks

when prop8 passed. Something is really, really wrong about this.

[AllentownJake]

37. No, someone probably was trying to protect Obama from it becoming a national issue

and made in error the calculation, that this would fail by a landslide.

They didn't anticipate what would happen when people actually got into the voting both and no one was watching.

[DevonRex]

42. That's just silly. Obama WROTE the letter. It was published in the NYT, or at least

referenced, and was published in the Sacramento Bee. So, it was put out there, intentionally, by Obama. Yet the No on 8 campaign consultants refused to use it. Time to kick consultant ass.

[Vanje]

38. "They"?

?
Who are "they"?

[DevonRex]

41. The consultants, who ran the worst campaign ever. Even now, Steve

Smith says, "It was a close call. Maybe we should have."

That was his answer to why he didn't use Obama's letter.

[Cha]

69. Ya

:think:

[Vanje]

74. Good. Fair enough. Thanks

Sometimes us DU gays get blamed for all these woes.
I get a defense reflex.

[DevonRex]

87. And who could blame you?

:hi:

[readmoreoften]

105. Why don't you just say "the homos" rejected Obama as an ally and "blamed the blacks"

What a load of crap. Obama has intensely politically snubbed LGBT people. He has routinely said that he believes its a "state's rights" issue. He played both sides of the fence on Prop 8. The link in the OP is from a gay neoconservative lunatic. It was commonly accepted that African-American voters had a 20% higher rate of voting FOR Prop 8 because of a WIDELY PROMOTED CNN poll that was all over the news.

That poll was right-wing propaganda to divide African-Americans and LGBT people for the Republican's benefit.
This "relevation" by Andrew Sullivan is a further attempt at this.

Most LGBT people and allies were CONFUSED and upset as to how it could've been possible. To feel abandoned is not "racist" (although a very small number of posts were indeed racist).

This OP is absurd. Whether or not the Campaign against 8 used the snippet, whether Sullivan is making shit up or not, or anything else does not mean that {b]gay people hate Obama and African-Americans so much that they'd destroy their own lives to hurt him.

It's called a smear and I'm disgusted that DUers are promoting this crap.
The first "revelation" was made by one of the most hardcore anti-gay posters on DU.

Yeah, you bet something's "really, really wrong about this". It's called propaganda.

[Raineyb]

78. If by search you mean they turned found a black face and pointed in that direction.

I wouldn't call that much of a search though.

:shrug:

Regards

[Drunken Irishman]

84. Never underestimate good organization.

Organization in politics is key and you can't half-ass it expecting a victory.

[midnight]

4. Good letter Mr. President.

[backscatter712]

5. Unfortunately, the No on 8 campaign got too cocky.

The same thing happened in Colorado (the original Hate State) with Amendment 2, which was another anti GLBT abomination.

They got cocky, didn't have their act together, and in the meantime, the fundies organized and cleaned their clocks.

At least with Amendment 2, it was so flagrantly discriminatory that it got repeatedly shot down in flames in the courts, and the SCOTUS struck it down for good. There's no guarantee that the same thing with happen with Prop 8.

[Laughing Mirror]

6. The Obama letter:

Dear Friends,

Thank you for the opportunity to welcome everyone to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club's Pridc Breakfast and to congratulate you on continuing a legacy of success, stretching back thirty-six years. As one of the oldest and most influential LGBT organizations in the country, you have continually rallied to support Democratic candidates and causes, and have fought tirelessly to secure equal rights and opportunities for LGBT Americans in California and throughout the country.

As the Democratic nominee for President, I am proud to join with and support the LGBT community in an effort to set our nation on a course that recognizes LGBT Americans with full equality under the law. That is why I support extending fully equal rights and benefits to same sex couples under both state and federal law. That is why I support repealing the Defense of Marriage Act and the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy, and the passage of laws to protect LGBT Americans from hate crimes and employment discrimination. And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states.

For too long. issues of LGBT rights have been exploited by those seeking to divide us. It's time to move beyond polarization and live up to our founding promise of equality by treating all our citizens with dignity and respect. This is no less than a core issue about who we are as Democrats and as Americans.

Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks. My thanks again to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club for allowing me to be a part of today's celebration. I look forward to working with you in the coming months and years, and I wish you all continued success.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama

[struggle4progress]

7. Obama rejects proposed California gay marriage ban (SacBee 1 Jul 08)

By Aurelio Rojas
[e-mail]
Published: Tuesday, Jul. 1, 2008 - 12:00 am | Page 3A

... In a letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club read Sunday at the group's annual Pride Breakfast in San Francisco, the Illinois senator said he supports extending "fully equal rights and benefits to same-sex couples under both state and federal law."

"And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states," Obama wrote ... http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1051404.html

[vaberella]

12. You come with proof? This board doesn't care about any

proof that Obama does anything right. At least it doesn't get as much supporters as the haters do.

[struggle4progress]

16. Eh. Most posters figure out what's up. Some don't. A few are trolls. I just wish

more folk would spend a few moments with a search engine before knee-jerking: the wails in November, that PropHate had passed because Obama supported it, became tiresome

[cliffordu]

18. Exactly.

[Cha]

82. Thanks for this,

struggle.

[vaberella]

9. Oh, so Obama is NOT a homophobe...?! Colour me shocked.

:sarcasm: <---For those who don't get it.

I remember when people were ready or had accused Obama of something like that and now they're proved wrong. No one can give him a bit of time....

[TahitiNut]

14. So, contrary to 'popular' DU opinion, "No On 8" threw THEMSELVES under the bus??

Go figure. :eyes:

[vaberella]

17. Edit: I apologize to Tahitinut.

Edit: Obnoxious title considering I didn't understand the full title of the author. The rest I feel remains valid as a commentary but not really in response to the poster.


What the OP is trying to say that despite popular belief, and I find you choose to ignore it, that Obama supports full gay rights and respects the fact that Yes on prop 8 was unlawful. But you haven't said that people's sudden "hate on Blacks and Obama himself" was popular on DU. thread after thread, topic after topic was attacking Blacks and/or Obama and calling him various names. When in actuality the case against Obama is wrong...and I don't think and it's already widely known that Blacks didn't right the law or put it on the ballot and those are the real bloody culprits. Those are the people I want blamed. It's like the labour workers who are striking attacking those who come in, in their place as traders. They're not traders to be attacked they need food and the job too. The people who needs to after is the power that be who uses those tactics to divide the people.

***As for Sullivan he's editorializing. He needs to recognize what happened was wrong and don't blame the victim. So attack him more than DU unless DU people defend it. I think the DU people who are pissed here, were more in regards to the attacks against other oppressed minorities and/or Obama that was really unwarranted.

[Starry Messenger]

20. Many of us were blaming those culprits, vaberella.

In my journal I have posts there about it. Right wingers are good at stirring up shit and using it to put everyone at each others' throat. So perhaps instead of everyone pointing fingers on this website at everyone else, we could just acknowledge that a wrong was done and move from there. There are members of the Democratic Party here who had their rights removed last year in California.

This is a great letter and I'm sorry it wasn't used by the No on 8 campaign here in California. But this is big state with a variety of weird issues at any given time. We don't know why it wasn't used. The out-funding of No on 8 came at the last few weeks when the religious millions came crashing through our firewall like a hot knife through butter. There will be analysis of this issue on this website.

[vaberella]

22. Thank you for this post Starry Messenger.

Keep me up to date if you can on what is going to be done and what planning objectives---because, personally, I'd like to know if there is any form of prosecution we can file against the people who put this on the ballot in the first place.

As for when this went down on the board, I used to be a regular poster here until I was felt pushed out because of the angry and racist rhetoric against Blacks on this board. While I had gay friends who were married, 2 lesbian couples and they were livid and one was so upset she needed to take time off. This was atrocious for her and when I come here...instead of a bit of sensitivity and going after the REAL culprits we're attacking Blacks as a general group while many were affected themselves.

Anyway, thanks for the post. We need to go after the right wingers. There's one from Colorado now that needs to be taken out. He went on the house floor to say that "gays should be put to death" its paraphrasing of what he said but that's the basic idea...

Here's the link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8248084&mesg_id=8248084

Below is my list of culprits that need to be taken out of office.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8248084&mesg_id=8248132

[Cha]

66. Zactly, vaberella~ I was

really bummed that there were so many unwarranted attacks on President Obama and the Blacks in Cali..and some just using it as an excuse to carry on their primary fight.

Why wouldn't this letter be used? It's an amazing testimony to civil rights by the soon to be President of the United States of America(at the time).

[cliffordu]

19. lol. Yep.

The circular firing squad, in full regalia.

Funny I don't see any of the usual suspects apologizing.....

[Vanje]

50. Apologizing?

I dont think the political consultants who made the bonehead decision to omit Obama's letter are DU members.
They sure sure did fuck up!
But I dont expect we'll read their apologies here.

[grantcart]

76. I'M SORRY

Don't have any idea what the hell anybody is talking about just trained at home to respond quickly to "usual suspect".

[cliffordu]

79. Aw, grantcart.....

:pals:


:hi:

Howaya???

[DevonRex]

89. That's as it should be.

:rofl:

You made me smile. Thanks. :hi:

[readmoreoften]

107. Yeah, believe Andrew Sullivan over fellow progressives on DU.

Thanks for your "support." :eyes:

I'm sure there's a lot of clips the No on 8 campaign and the Yes on 8 campaign could've used because Obama TRIANGULATES so fucking much on our lives.

[Uzybone]

15. Et tu Sully? Under the bus with ya.

:popcorn:

[firedupdem]

21. That makes no sense. And it was crazy here with all the

"bus toss" references.

[Vanje]

51. The "under the bus" references

=were a response to the Warren inaugural prayer.

(It was a sucky prayer, by any measure)

[Number23]

25. Alot could have been achieved by using that letter.

And alot of blame and hatred could have been avoided as well.

Happy to rec. Thanks for posting this, Pisces.

[Hekate]

27. KnR. No effing comment.

:grr:

Hekate

[HamdenRice]

29. "Out FM" Pacifica's GLBT radio program says they were catastrophically disorganized, ...

incompetent and clueless. This is just more evidence. But it's easier to say "Blacks are now the enemy" and other crap which some "under the bus" poutragists are still harping on.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. LIke many people I saw that letter back then

And like many on DU I have been here placing the blame where it belongs, with the right wing religioniist hypocrites. Look it up if you don't believe me.
I find it stunning how many on this thread see themselves as 'us' and GLBT people as 'them'. Shocked at how many see a victory by the right wing Republicans against good Democrats not as a mutual loss, but as something that happened to 'other people'.
The organization of No ON 8 was lousy. The people who were on our side failed to deliver. By that I mean all of us Democrats. The Californians I turned to were universally disinterested and certain the Prop would be defeated. Gay folk were under engaged, straight folk were downright uncaring about it. There is not one group of people that I feel did what was needed. That includes the Obama campaign, the DNC, the 'gay organizations', show biz gays and friends, wealthy people, and women's organizations. All of them failed. Obama's letter was so good to read at the time, but he clouded his message with too much silence especially in light of the McClurkin fiasco and Obama's constant declarations that he does not support marriage equality. He could have, and needed to, deliver a clear message without equivocations. He did not do that. Biden was agreeing with Palin in debates- "Gay marriage? No!" So stronger words to balance all of that would have helped, and should have been done. Perhaps the President feels that he could have done more and better, I know that many of the best activists around this issue feel they failed to deliver what was needed. We, as Democrats, failed miserably with the fight against that Prop.
I personally called the No on 8 people and offered huge help that was unwelcomed and unwanted. I have many contacts. They did not want any outside anything. This is not uncommon. Many political groups are that way. Closed down and unheeding of reality. I have lots of stories.
But the No on 8 people just failed like everyone else failed. Me. You. Obama. The brilliant folks who made Prop8 the Musical... a month after the vote-I know they feel they were late. We did not fight as we should have. Too many straight folks did not understand the need for them to take action. Many gay folk too for that matter. Just saying. Slice it how you'd like, along whatever division you might be insisting upon, but Prop 8 and the others passed because we Democrats failed to defeat it. Us. Me and you. And our leadership. We failed.
Splitting hairs over who failed the most or the least is fun I guess. But we failed. We. Failed. And our fellow Democrats are suffering from our neglect. That is the cap T truth.

[Vanje]

55. Its MY fault Prop 8 passed : an admission of guilt.

"Many gay folk too for that matter. Just saying. Slice it how you'd like, along whatever division you might be insisting upon, but Prop 8 and the others passed because we Democrats failed to defeat it. Us. Me and you. And our leadership. We failed."

I live in Idaho. I'm gay.
I figured (quite wrongly)that the most liberal, gay-positive state in the union would defeat a few small minded bigots on its own.
Shit man! Its CALIFORNIA! not fucking red-state Idaho. California!: the gay Mecca. I thought it was in the bag.
I avoided the issue absolutely. My avoidance was 100%.

I was busy doing all I could to elect a great president.

I focused my energy, time, and checks working doing everything in my power get those fucking republicans out of the stolen whitehouse.

The presidential election worked out well, and I'm still celebrating.
Prop 8 did not, and I'm still devastated, because it may be my fault.

[Starry Messenger]

67. That's a really great post Bluenorthwest.

I wish I had done more, or known where to go. I feel really horrible because I was literally sitting around just doing not much, because I thought this was all but won here.

[Hekate]

77. Bluenorthwest, if I could Recommend a post, yours would get my KnR. nt

[DevonRex]

31. Why didn't California GLBTs want to use Obama's letter? I don't get it.

[Starry Messenger]

39. Hi DevonRex!

I'm reading through various blogs this morning and don't have any specific links yet. But it's my understanding that a robocall using Obama's statements at the Saddleback Forum had been snipped out "Marriage is between a man and a woman...God is in the mix" and used. Yes on 8 used recordings of him to be more effective.

I think it was felt that a recording of an actor reading the thoughts from Obama's letter would not effectively counter the change in opinion that the robocall caused.

I think some did want to use the letter, but the organization was not really there, and while decisions were trying to get made, Yes on 8 went wild with more propaganda. It was pretty textbook, unfortunately. Actually quite Rovian. Ken Starr being part of the law team to counter the lawsuits here is telling, too. :(

[DevonRex]

45. I've been doing the same thing this morning and I've found some really

good blogs. Apparently a lot of California GLBTs were aware of the letter and did want it used, just as you said. And immediately after the vote, they were out in force trying to make it clear that Obama had taken a position against prop 8. And many folks were upset thinking that so many Obama voters might have voted against prop 8 if the information had just been out there.

I have a feeling that because the letter was sent in June, when folks were confident prop 8 would fail, that maybe it slipped through the cracks for a while. And maybe after that, they wondered if it was too late to use it.

Your explation is quite plausible, as well. So, thank you. I'm feeling better about this. Although I'd still like to kick somebody's ass. Not the GLBT community's ass but the consultants' asses.

[Starry Messenger]

48. My foot will be next to your foot!

Grr. This is maddening.

[Vanje]

58. Thanks

Californias gays are already black and blue.

[Vanje]

57. Californias GLBTs did not make the decision

Do not blame them.
Do not blame them.
DO NOT BLAME THEM!


political consultants did

[DevonRex]

88. My bad. I should have googled the consultants before opening my mouth.

It honestly never occurred to me that the folks consulting wouldn't be GLBT and wouldn't have had lots of input from the community on those types of decisions. It took me all of 2 minutes to find the correct information, so I'm at fault here.

A little bit in my own defense (shaky though it is) I figured that nobody knows how to change hearts and minds on full civil rights for GLBTs better than GLBTs. You've been changing the hearts and minds of family, friends, coworkers and even complete strangers, your whole lives.

What's horrible is that we straight people still have to be taught at all. But we do. I'm still learning from you and I hope you are willing to keep teaching. :hi:

[Vanje]

93. No prob.

We're good

[Waiting For Everyman]

33. OMG (facepalm)

This is truly pathetic, to find out. Of course, I remember all the venom on here right after the election. (Who could forget it?) All DUers from all states were attacked for weeks, for even feeling joy that Obama won the national election.

Where is the outrage, I wonder, against the INDIVIDUALS in the "No on Prop 8" leadership who made the decision not to use this letter in a big way, to match the misplaced outrage that we saw here post-election? Before anybody else gets blamed for losing Prop 8, it ought to be first and loudest against those few specific people. That's where responsibility for it lies - not with "you", "me", "all Dems", "Blacks and Hispanics", or President Obama. (People certainly can't be blamed for their lack of response when they never saw the best persuasion and endorsement this could've had; and it was there, sent and available - but never used. OMG.)

And all the while, those same individuals in that campaign who made this decision had to be aware that they were letting not only Obama, but all AAs (and all heteros) take the heat of hate for their own personal failure.

Big "oops". But no apologies, huh?

[Bluenorthwest]

36. The individuals are being dealt with

just not here on DU. This is far from the place for glbt organizing, you know. There are many websites that can serve up the skinny if you want it, but they are gay and black and stuff like that, so many DUers will not see them, read them, or care to find them.
The letter in question did publish in the NY Times in Nov. It was not utterly buried. But if you want an individual, try Steve Smith of Dewey Square, a Sacramento-based consuluting firm affiliated with the Democratic Party. Dewey Square is not a 'gay' organization, but is in fact one of the largest political consulting firms in the country. The letter was under their control, and Mr Smith's explainations as to why they undersued it are weak.
A group of political consultants is usually to blame when such things as this go on. I have seen the same thing in many lost efforts, from Presidential runs to local props.
Dewey Square. This is information that is easy to find. It is also easy to find opinions about it that are far more informed and complex than you will find on DU.
But I absolutely do not agree that this was not an across the borad failure by all concerned to deliver what was needed. We were all of us very busy at the time, but as a Party, we failed. And that is just that. The loss was our loss, and mistakes were our mistakes. I have spent years complaining about the use of consultants who don't know the ground they work on. But we, as a Party, are addicted to them. Note that No On 8 was using a Democratic firm, not a GLBT firm. The guys at Dewey Square.

[DevonRex]

49. I agree it was a democratic party failure. I also think Smith deserves

a LOT of criticism about the decision not to use the letter. I tracked back the links and found some good blogs and then I did some googling.

I guess Steve Smith of Dewey Square has a gay brother and is supposedly an "expert" on ballot initiatives in California. But what I found was that the consultants were very timid in their tactics. Instead of being positive and bold, they were fearful.

Just my opinion, but when you are right there is no reason to be timid.

[Starry Messenger]

54. Sadly, this is pretty typical of the Democratic Party disorganization out here.

We really need a shake-up and things like this are one (huge) reason why. We need a "58 county" strategy. I think Xemasab said that last December and it really resonated with me. It's gotten lazy because we are a "blue state", but that's really only by the coasts.

[Vanje]

59. More than ever, I wish I could rec a single post

This one would be it!

[Cha]

68. Good post..That "letter" from Obama

would have gone a long way to helping people's mind set away from the "hate".

[Vanje]

40. When you say, "They" chose not to use Obama's letter....

please make it clear, that you mean political consultants,Smith and DeweySquare. These are the boneheads that made the decision to omit the letter.
Even your linked page dosnt indicate who made the actual decision to omit Obama's Alice B. Toklas letter.


Heres a link to Sullivans entire article: http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2009/03/alice-b.html

When you say, "they" , it sounds like you mean everyone who was anti-measure 8.

[DevonRex]

46. I agree. And I answered you above, making it clear. Too late to edit

my post, so I put it in the subject line in my reply to you.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Starry Messenger]

60. How is that supposed to be helpful?

:( This state might not even get a chance to do this again. The court case was hardly resounding and it was just a couple of days ago. This is why human rights should not be put up for a vote. Too much human nature gets involved.

[Vanje]

61. Well, thats what matters:

You're happy.

[anonymous171]

70. Wow. They really are useless. I could run a better campaign. nt

[FrenchieCat]

83. I just remember repeating to those who were disgusted with

Black folks in reference to Prop 8....at DU,

"I'm Black, and my whole family here in California voted against Prop 8."

That didn't seem to help at the time, though. :(

[Occam Bandage]

90. Sad. That could have swung quite a few votes. Maybe enough to keep it from passing.

[Hellataz]

91. The people who ran "no on Prop 8" did a horrible job. I knew that before this letter came out

I live in Cali and during election never once saw a "no on Prop 8" ad, my tv and news channels were bombarded with ads from "yes on prop 8" telling everyone how Gay marriage leads to teaching children how to be gay in school. Even today i see "yes on prop 8" bumper stickers claiming they were protecting children. The "No on Prop 8" organization ran a passive campaign and did very little to defend gay marriage against all the inflammatory accusations being thrown at them, especially about children, which was what clinched it for so many voter.

I wrote to them personally asking them to be more aggressive and that the small Nor Cal town i lived in was over run with ignorant people supporting Prop 8 and how there was so much misinformation out there that they needed to clear up if they wanted to win. They had millions of dollars donated to them and i never saw any ads. Where was this money spent? In big cities where they were more likely to vote against prop 8 due to a more diverse population? Cause the money should have gone to educating the smaller counties and towns as to how harmless Prop 8 would have been to their kids.

It's almost like they didn't want Prop 8 to lose either. I don't get it.

[Cha]

104. A Rolling Stone magazine

article by Tim Dickenson on Dec, 11, 2008 supports your inside view.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/24603325/samesex_setback

[bluedawg12]

114. "It didn't help that Barack Obama refused to support gay marriage..."

Since the Rolling Stone article was cited here in this thread, we might as well see what they said:

"It didn't help that Barack Obama refused to support gay marriage, and voiced his opposition to Prop 8 as a narrow constitutional matter. Indeed, Obama was so weak on the issue that Schubert highlighted the candidate's opposition to gay marriage in a mailer targeting African-Americans, and used his voice in a statewide robo-call. "We were able to quote him directly on the core issue in direct mail and in calls at the end of the campaign," says Schubert. When African-Americans in California went to the polls on Election Day, 70 percent of them voted to ban gay marriage."
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/24603325/samesex_setback/3

[Cha]

117. That doesn't jive with the Letter..

"I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states ... Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks."

[Hippo_Tron]

121. Obama was about as pro gay marriage as possible without blatantly saying "I'm pro gay marriage"

And unfortunately that's the way it goes on politics. He was better on the issue than Clinton, Gore, or Kerry were when they ran

[AntiFascist]

97. Only more evidence that...

some of the people who head the pro-gay marriage organizations want this struggle to go on and on...for them it is a cash cow. It seems similar to the AIDS drug industry.

[readmoreoften]

109. are you fucking for real?

[bluedawg12]

113. Teh Gay, that anti Hate8 crowd put up Proposition 8, didn't you know?

:sarcasm:

[Starry Messenger]

111. AntiFascist, did you mean "anti-gay" marriage?

"Ron Prentice Gets Rich Fighting Gay Marriage"

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/9/11/84434/6357

(from the link)

" Con Artist Exposed As Heading Prop 8 Campaign

As Justin McLachlan exposes, Ron Prentice has been operating a scam - raising money from good religious people - but using it to line his own pocket instead of using the money as he said he would. He is nothing but a con-artist. And now he is trying to con the people of California into bashing gay and lesbian families - so he can add another million or so to his bank account.

Anti-Gay Organization is Personal Money Machine

I have long held that a great many of the "pro-family" organizations have as their main agenda making a nice comfortable living for their founders and "ex-gay" for pay employees. True, there is also the political agenda of keeping alive the choice myth, but the real goal is money. Emerging facts about the Riverside, California-based California Family Council which claims to have a mission to protect and foster Judeo-Christian principles in California's laws, for the benefit of its families is a case in point. These charlatans continue to prey on their sheep-like contributors to finance their comfortable life style and no doubt laugh all the way to the bank."

People don't want to believe that other people could be just this evil. But they are.

Meet Ron Prentice--

[AntiFascist]

119. No, I meant what I said...

of course the greatest evil and corruption can be found on the Yes on 8 side, I certainly won't deny that. It's just that after raising record amounts of cash I think that the leaders of the No on 8 campaign could have done a much better job with the resources they had available. I'm looking forward to what the Courage Campaign will do in the future, unless of course the CA Supreme Court decides in our favor.

[Vanje]

112. Did you hear about that on "Savage Nation"?

or Glenn Beck?

[AntiFascist]

118. No, but those I am criticizing certainly would want you to think that....

I and my partner happen to be one of the 18,000 that got married in California when it was legal so I am definitely on the side of pro-gay marriage, and it would be nice if the leaders of the No on 8 groups had our best interests at heart. I do fully support the Courage Campaign as it seems to be the only viable alternative to EQCA.

[Cha]

120. Good to know..and I'm

happy for your and your pard.

[Hippo_Tron]

122. Oh horseshit, this fight against discrimination will be going on long after they have retired

[AntiFascist]

123. The fight against discrimination will always go on...

but we could have kept gay marriage legal in California had they used the massive amount of funds that were donated more effectively.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Undercurrent]

115. I'm saddened and confused

by the fact that this letter from our (then) future President wasn't used. It should have been emailed and snail mailed to everyone on the mailing lists, sent to all the media outlets, and sent to all elected officials who were opposed to Prop 8.

I don't get it. It was a powerful piece of ammunition to use in the fight.

Furthermore, it's lack of being broadly circulated created a falsehood among many that Obama was not supportive of the NO on 8 Californians. He was. And had his letter been widely read there wouldn't have been some good Democrats calling him names.

It just adds to my heartbreak over the whole thing. :(