Merit pay does NOT have to mean that some teachers win and some teachers lose.

[ncteechur]

If everyone performs well, they should all get merit pay. If they all don't, then noone should get merit pay.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. It won't work that way

Teaching is FAR too political for it to ever possibly work (at least in NJ). I'm sure it's the same everywhere, though.

[NYC_SKP]

7. We need to stop rewarding mediocrity and incompetence.

That's the inverse way of looking at it.

If what you say is true, that "Teaching is FAR too political for it to ever possibly work", it needs to be fixed one way or the other.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

13. I agree that needs to be fixed (but I still don't agree with merit pay)

And, on the list of political corruptness in NJ, teachers are on the bottom of my list. Townie cops are at the top.

I've had some shitty teachers, and some absolutely incredible teachers, who I am friends with to this day. Merit pay will never, ever work. Too many variables (and politics).

[NYC_SKP]

15. I'm exhausted from discussing this one, there is no silver bullet.

Merit pay based only on test scores, very bad, and many reduce it to that false assumption.

Rewarding teachers who take hard to fill positions, work with challenging populations, or seek professional development, I'm open-minded to.

Teachers rock, I work with several and I taught for several years but it burned me out.

I still work with educators but as a member of a non-profit.

The education "system" the bureaucracy, is killing itself.

:patriot:

[dsc]

2. there is no way they can all win

Some percent of students fail standardized tests, that is part of what standardized means (they grade on a curve).

[ulysses]

4. oh hush, we're creating Lake Woebegone here.

:hi:

[ncteechur]

10. Sure you can if you base teacher performance on cohort growth rather than just a single test result

[ulysses]

3. the problem is with the metrics.

How is "performs well" to be defined in practice?

[MichiganVote]

5. And you have worked in education when?

[NYC_SKP]

11. Judging by his username, "ncteechur" I'm betting that he taught...

...some time.

And he makes a very good point.

And I taught for about eight years and now teach teachers.

:patriot:

[baldguy]

6. A students success depends on too many external factors outside of the teachers' control.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5229117&mesg_id=5229117

[brentspeak]

8. Only in a nation like Finland, where there's merit pay AND tenure

Unfortunately, the goal of merit pay here is to abolish tenure.

[Cant trust em]

18. What is the purpose of tenure?

I'm not asking that sarcastically. What is the reason for developing the practice aside from institutionalized job security?

[rwheeler31]

9. What is the criteria for this "performance"?

[valerief]

12. I thought merit pay anywhere always went to the one with the big tits. nt

[BlooInBloo]

14. You haven't learned your lesson. Teacher should never, EVER be judged by...

the product they turn out.

EDIT: Even if they're given the best possible environment to work in, STILL they should not be judged by the product they turn out. There's a reason for that, of course.

[rurallib]

16. wow - 40 years ago when I was going through teachers programs

this was a hot topic as Dick Nixon took the reins. Yet there was some suspicion that he really wanted to cripple the teacher's unions and end tenure. The metric for doing this had teachers at each others throats.
Good to see great ideas don't die.
This was shortly after teacher's unions came into being. If you can find someone who taught before unions ask them what the conditions and pay were like.
Divide and conquer, always the republican plan.

[Double T]

17. Bonuses and merit type pay will soon be a thing of the past, if it isn't already.

Hatchet corporate executives and administrators will be the only ones receiving bonuses. The commoners will be happy just to have a job.