This should tell you all you need to know- Spitzers real target is Geithner

[masuki bance]

Spitzer v. Geithner

Eliot Spitzer returns to his role of Wall Street scourge with this Slate column about AIG, but his real target, it seems, is Tim Geithner:

Here are several questions that should be answered, in public, under oath, to clear the air:

What was the precise conversation among Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, and Blankfein that preceded the initial $80 billion grant?

Was it already known who the counterparties were and what the exposure was for each of the counterparties?

What did Goldman, and all the other counterparties, know about AIG's financial condition at the time they executed the swaps or other contracts? Had they done adequate due diligence to see whether they were buying real protection? And why shouldn't they bear a percentage of the risk of failure of their own counterparty?

What is the deeper relationship between Goldman and AIG? Didn't they almost merge a few years ago but did not because Goldman couldn't get its arms around the black box that is AIG? If that is true, why should Goldman get bailed out? After all, they should have known as well as anybody that a big part of AIG's business model was not to pay on insurance it had issued.

Why weren't the counterparties immediately and fully disclosed?

Failure to answer these questions will feed the populist rage that is metastasizing very quickly. And it will raise basic questions about the competence of those who are supposedly guiding this economic policy.

Spitzer has never been much of a fan of Geithner's, telling Vanity Fair back in December:

Tim is a good guy, but he’s not a thinker. He’s the status quo.

Spitzer is obviously not the Democratic Party heavyweight he once was ("It sucks," he's said of his life as a mere Slate columnist, "I used to be the governor of New York"). But it'll be interesting to see if any other prominent Dems follow his lead on this.

--Jason Zengerle

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2009/03/17/spitzer-v-geithner.aspx

This has become an opportunity used by people like Spitzer to try and rehabilitate themselves at the cost of harming this administration.

[Truth2Tell]

1. at the cost of harming this administration

Getting rid of scumbags like Geithner can only help Obama.

[FrenchieCat]

3. No it won't!

The only thing you are doing at this point is handing the Republicans an issue.
They created the fucking mess,
and now they want this administration to pay for it.

Replacing the Secretary of the Treasurer based on some Bonuses is going to severely
hurt the recovery, and hurt this President, and by extension the Democrats.

Election 2010-
Issue #1 - AIG Bail out and Bonuses

Who voted AGAINST the original Bail Out?

House Vote On Passage: H.R. 1424 <110th>
List of those who voted NAY!

Alabama
Nay AL-1 Bonner, Jo (R)
Nay AL-2 Everett, Terry (R)
Nay AL-3 Rogers, Michael (R)
Nay AL-4 Aderholt, Robert (R)
Nay AL-6 Bachus, Spencer (R)
Alaska None
Arizona
Not Voting AZ-1 Renzi, Rick (R)
Nay AZ-2 Franks, Trent (R)
Nay AZ-3 Shadegg, John (R)
Nay AZ-6 Flake, Jeff (R)
Arkansas
Nay AR-3 Boozman, John (R)
California
Nay CA-2 Herger, Walter (R)
Nay CA-3 Lungren, Daniel (R)
Nay CA-4 Doolittle, John (R)
Not Voting CA-6 Woolsey, Lynn (D)
Nay CA-19 Radanovich, George (R)
Nay CA-21 Nunes, Devin (R)
Nay CA-22 McCarthy, Kevin (R)
Nay CA-25 McKeon, Howard (R)
Nay CA-26 Dreier, David (R)
Nay CA-40 Royce, Edward (R)
Nay CA-41 Lewis, Jerry (R)
Nay CA-42 Miller, Gary (R)
Nay CA-44 Calvert, Ken (R)
Nay CA-46 Rohrabacher, Dana (R)
Nay CA-48 Campbell, John (R)
Nay CA-49 Issa, Darrell (R)
Nay CA-50 Bilbray, Brian (R)
Nay CA-52 Hunter, Duncan (R)
Colorado
Not Voting CO-4 Musgrave, Marilyn (R)
Nay CO-5 Lamborn, Doug (R)
Nay CO-6 Tancredo, Thomas (R)
Connecticut NONE
Delaware NONE
Florida
Nay FL-1 Miller, Jeff (R)
Nay FL-4 Crenshaw, Ander (R)
Not Voting FL-5 Brown-Waite, Virginia (R)
Nay FL-6 Stearns, Clifford (R)
Nay FL-7 Mica, John (R)
Not Voting FL-8 Keller, Ric (R)
Nay FL-9 Bilirakis, Gus (R)
Nay FL-10 Young, C. W. (R)
Nay FL-12 Putnam, Adam (R)
Nay FL-14 Mack, Connie (R)
Nay FL-15 Weldon, David (R)
Nay FL-24 Feeney, Tom (R)
Georgia
Nay GA-1 Kingston, Jack (R)
Nay GA-3 Westmoreland, Lynn (R)
Nay GA-6 Price, Tom (R)
Nay GA-7 Linder, John (R)
Nay GA-8 Marshall, James (D)
Nay GA-9 Deal, Nathan (R)
Nay GA-10 Broun, Paul (R)
Nay GA-11 Gingrey, John (R)
Hawaii NONE
Idaho
Nay ID-1 Sali, Bill (R)
Nay ID-2 Simpson, Michael (R)
Illinois
Not Voting IL-1 Rush, Bobby (D)
Nay IL-6 Roskam, Peter (R)
Nay IL-16 Manzullo, Donald (R)
Nay IL-19 Shimkus, John (R)
Indiana
Nay IN-3 Souder, Mark (R)
Nay IN-4 Buyer, Stephen (R)
Nay IN-5 Burton, Dan (R)
Nay IN-6 Pence, Mike (R)
Iowa
Nay IA-4 Latham, Thomas (R)
Nay IA-5 King, Steve (R)
Kansas
Nay KS-1 Moran, Jerry (R)
Kentucky
Nay KY-1 Whitfield, Edward (R)
Nay KY-2 Lewis, Ron (R)
Nay KY-4 Davis, Geoff (R)
Nay KY-5 Rogers, Harold (R)
Louisiana
Nay LA-4 McCrery, James (R)
Nay LA-5 Alexander, Rodney (R)
Maine NONE
Maryland
Not Voting MD-4 Wynn, Albert (D)
Nay MD-6 Bartlett, Roscoe (R)
Massachusetts NONE
Michigan
Nay MI-2 Hoekstra, Peter (R)
Nay MI-3 Ehlers, Vernon (R)
Nay MI-4 Camp, David (R)
Not Voting MI-7 Walberg, Timothy (R)
Nay MI-8 Rogers, Michael (R)
Nay MI-11 McCotter, Thaddeus (R)
Minnesota
Nay MN-2 Kline, John (R)
Nay MN-6 Bachmann, Michele (R)
Mississippi NONE
Missouri
Nay MO-2 Akin, W. (R)
Nay MO-6 Graves, Samuel (R)
Nay MO-7 Blunt, Roy (R)
Nay MO-9 Hulshof, Kenny (R)
Montana
Nay MT-0 Rehberg, Dennis (R)
Nebraska
Nay NE-1 Fortenberry, Jeffrey (R)
Nay NE-2 Terry, Lee (R)
Nay NE-3 Smith, Adrian (R)
Nevada
Nay NV-2 Heller, Dean (R)
Nay NV-3 Porter, Jon (R)
New Hampshire NONE
New Jersey
Nay NJ-4 Smith, Christopher (R)
Nay NJ-5 Garrett, Scott (R)
New Mexico
Nay NM-1 Wilson, Heather (R)
Nay NM-2 Pearce, Steven (R)
New York
Not Voting NY-15 Rangel, Charles (D)
Nay NY-26 Reynolds, Thomas (R)
Nay NY-29 Kuhl, John (R)
North Carolina
Nay NC-3 Jones, Walter (R)
Nay NC-5 Foxx, Virginia (R)
Nay NC-6 Coble, Howard (R)
Nay NC-9 Myrick, Sue (R)
Nay NC-10 Mchenry, Patrick (R)
North Dakota NONE
Ohio
Nay OH-1 Chabot, Steven (R)
Nay OH-2 Schmidt, Jean (R)
Nay OH-3 Turner, Michael (R)
Nay OH-4 Jordan, Jim (R)
Nay OH-5 Latta, Robert (R)
Nay OH-8 Boehner, John (R)
Nay OH-12 Tiberi, Patrick (R)
Oklahoma
Nay OK-3 Lucas, Frank (R)
Nay OK-4 Cole, Tom (R)
Nay OK-5 Fallin, Mary (R)
Oregon
Nay OR-2 Walden, Greg (R)
Pennsylvania
Nay PA-5 Peterson, John (R)
Nay PA-9 Shuster, William (R)
Nay PA-16 Pitts, Joseph (R)
Rhode Island NONE
South Carolina
Nay SC-1 Brown, Henry (R)
Nay SC-2 Wilson, Addison (R)
Nay SC-3 Barrett, James (R)
Nay SC-4 Inglis, Bob (R)
South Dakota NONE
Tennessee
Nay TN-1 Davis, David (R)
Nay TN-2 Duncan, John (R)
Nay TN-7 Blackburn, Marsha (R)
Texas
Nay TX-1 Gohmert, Louis (R)
Not Voting TX-2 Poe, Ted (R)
Nay TX-3 Johnson, Samuel (R)
Nay TX-4 Hall, Ralph (R)
Nay TX-5 Hensarling, Jeb (R)
Nay TX-6 Barton, Joe (R)
Nay TX-7 Culberson, John (R)
Nay TX-8 Brady, Kevin (R)
Nay TX-10 McCaul, Michael (R)
Nay TX-11 Conaway, K. (R)
Nay TX-12 Granger, Kay (R)
Nay TX-13 Thornberry, William (R)
Nay TX-14 Paul, Ronald (R)
Nay TX-15 Hinojosa, Rubén (D)
Nay TX-19 Neugebauer, Randy (R)
Not Voting TX-20 Gonzalez, Charles (D)
Nay TX-22 Lampson, Nicholas (D)
Nay TX-24 Marchant, Kenny (R)
Nay TX-26 Burgess, Michael (R)
Not Voting TX-30 Johnson, Eddie (D)
Nay TX-31 Carter, John (R)
Nay TX-32 Sessions, Peter (R)
Utah
Nay UT-1 Bishop, Rob (R)
Nay UT-3 Cannon, Christopher (R)
Vermont
Not Voting VT-0 Welch, Peter (D)
Virginia
Nay VA-1 Wittman, Rob (R)
Nay VA-2 Drake, Thelma (R)
Nay VA-4 Forbes, James (R)
Nay VA-5 Goode, Virgil (R)
Nay VA-6 Goodlatte, Robert (R)
Nay VA-7 Cantor, Eric (R)
Nay VA-10 Wolf, Frank (R)
Washington
Nay WA-4 Hastings, Doc (R)
Nay WA-5 McMorris Rodgers, Cathy (R)
Nay WA-8 Reichert, Dave (R)
West Virginia NONE
Wisconsin
Nay WI-1 Ryan, Paul (R)
Nay WI-6 Petri, Thomas (R)
Wyoming
Nay WY-0 Cubin, Barbara (R)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-101


We waited 8 fucked up years, and we finally get someone in office who listens to us,
and what are we going to do....fuck it up for the future.

say goodbye to anything else on the Democratic Agenda.
We are working hard to tie this President's hands after two weeks!
I wonder How long Bill Clinton got, and if he was given longer,
why was that? What is different about Bill Clinton and Barack Obama two months in?

Thanks!

[depakid]

5. Geithner and Summers don't listen to us

and don't give a rat's ass what you or anyone else- other than their pals in high-errr now low finance thinks.

Summers in particular holds people like you (or I) in contempt.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, they DO know more than you or I?

This "game" is not a populist one. It won't be solved by populism or campaign slogans. It is far too complex for that.

Literally, there might only be a handful of people in the world capable of solving this problem - and I'm fairly certain neither of us are one of them. And frankly, neither of us even know enough to know if Geithner and Summers know enough.

We really have no choice but to trust Obama's judgment on this one.

[CAcyclist]

13. Oh come on, you can read history.

Summers is one of the guys who helped engineer the deregulation that put this debacle into motion in the first place. This may be economics, but it isn't rocket science. I knew back when the Glass- Steigel rule was removed that the markets were no place to be until they were reregulated, which is why I kept my money in cds. If I can figure it out, you can too.

There are different schools of thought within economics and the Chicago School brand, which Geithner, Summers and Bernanke subscribe to , is a noxious one. We need keynesian economics people instead.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. There's a key part to your sentence that you failed to include

There are different schools of thought within economics and the Chicago School brand, which Geithner, Summers and Bernanke subscribe to , which in my opinionis a noxious one. We need keynesian economics people instead.

Bold indicates added words.

That's your opinion. You voted for someone that is not of that opinion, and there is certainly no "capital-T" true school of thought upon which everyone, or even most people, agree.

[amandabeech]

23. CAcyclist's argument is bolstered by experience.

The Chicago school has ruled the world since Reagan's day, and you can see the results. Even Alan Greenspan and Jack Welch (GE) have said that they were wrong and they were big supporters of the Chicagoans.

Can you blame the poster for asking for change? I can't.

[Truth2Tell]

14. As long as they can keep people thinking this kind of nonsense

ie, that the problems are SOOOO complicated that only the people who created them can solve them - then they can keep looting with impunity. It doesn't take a financial guru to understand simple concepts like public oversight.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. Do you understand, say, quantum physics?

How would you begin to enter a discussion regarding the oversight of a quantum physics program if you have no idea what the principles of the theories being discussed are?

Same thing holds true for this - at this level of economics, how can the vast majority of us even begin to talk about it without understanding what's really at stake?

I don't think we can. And I don't dispute your point - but the only way around that is to put forth an initiative specifically to get us more experts. Furthermore, at some point, the people do need to trust their elected officials and the people they put in place - there is just no way possible that we the people can ever serve as a true oversight for anything, much less matters of this extreme complication. I trust Obama - do you not?

[Truth2Tell]

20. My suggestion would be to get

experts who were not involved in causing the problem in the first place and ask them to help provide oversight. But of course people like Geithner and Summers fought tooth and nail to prevent such a thing. Oversight of public expenditures in the billions or trillions of Dollars is the JOB of Congress. If they refuse to do their job because they are beholden to the people who caused this crisis to begin with - then they really have no purpose left. To suggest that the problems are just so complicated that only those who caused them can fix them is patently absurd and only serves to justify the continued insanity.

[jeanpalmer]

22. Exactly

Why people choose to accept living in the dark, not getting the information they deserve, is beyond me. And then use that as an excuse not to exercise their judgment. People like Geithner and Bernanke thrive on keeping citizens in the dark. They can pursue their own agenda without scrutiny. They can shovel $13 billion to Goldman Sachs through AIG and because they don't tell us about it, we can't question it. In this, they do rely on the willing ignorance of people, knowing that if they don't tell us about it many people will say "I have to trust them because I don't have the facts to make a judgment."

[Raineyb]

11. The disallowment of bonuses should have been written into the bill in the first place.

This is something progressive critics of the bailout bill were saying in the first place. The Republicans certainly have created this mess but that bonus fuck up was allowed because they didn't bother to include language to make sure it didn't happen and Democrats along with Bernie Sanders were saying that there had to be more strings attached to the money.

There are plenty of Democrats who seemingly have no problem with giveaways to Wall Street.

Regards

[CAcyclist]

12. The best thing that could happen would be for Geithner to go

If I remember correctly, Obama's number two positions are filled by some pretty liberal people who would move up into place once the fools at the top are removed. Obama is a lot cagier than some people are giving him credit for.

[rvablue]

15. I agree with you on Geithner, how anyone can think that firing him now will help the President is a

total novice on politics.

Even if he did deserve it, which I don't have the proof at this point to think he does, the Republicans would nitpick on it from now until the end of his term

And, Bill Clinton had it just as hard. Someone posted an article from Media Matters here yesterday, detailing what crap the press and Republicans were giving Clinton two weeks into his administration.

One must keep in mind they do this to ALL Democrats not just Obama. The plus for Obama is that he has DU, DKos, KO, Rachel, the Daily Show and Colbert to help shout down the RW echo chamber....Clinton didn't even have that.




ed: sp.

[KittyWampus]

19. refusing to investigate crimes by AIG and the rest will bite Obama in the ass. What YOU want is

for DU'ers to just help sweep it under the rug.

[rvablue]

16. No it won't help Obama and what are you basing this on?

This one article.

The bonuses that were allowed in a bill written by the Bush administration.

I'm not totally getting why Dems are calling for Geithner's head.

The only reason the Republicans are doing it is purely for political reasons.

[Truth2Tell]

25. The reason is because he is a Wall Street tool.

The AIG bonus situation just illustrates the point - it's not the issue all by itself.

[morgan2]

2. spitzer was the only regulator actually going after these companies bs

its sad no ones coming to him for advice on what to do.

[AllentownJake]

7. As someone who was in that industry

Spitzer was going after stupid shit that got him headlines...he never really went after the real bad stuff.

He wasn't the bad ass that everyone makes him out to be.

[morgan2]

8. I never said he was perfect

but he was the only one interested in it.

[Median Democrat]

4. Misleading OP - Should Just Link Directly To Spitzer's Comment

The blog entry is just a charazterization of Spitzer's comment, which actually focuses on the September 2008 bailout, not anything done while Obama was in office. I have linked to Spitzer's actual comment that the blog entry merely editorializes on. My god, whatever happened to real journalism. So much "news" today is opinion disguised as fact. Worse, DUers are now citing to these commentaries as fact.

http://www.slate.com/id/2213942/

/snip

What was the precise conversation among Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, and Blankfein that preceded the initial $80 billion grant?

Was it already known who the counterparties were and what the exposure was for each of the counterparties?

What did Goldman, and all the other counterparties, know about AIG's financial condition at the time they executed the swaps or other contracts? Had they done adequate due diligence to see whether they were buying real protection? And why shouldn't they bear a percentage of the risk of failure of their own counterparty?

What is the deeper relationship between Goldman and AIG? Didn't they almost merge a few years ago but did not because Goldman couldn't get its arms around the black box that is AIG? If that is true, why should Goldman get bailed out? After all, they should have known as well as anybody that a big part of AIG's business model was not to pay on insurance it had issued.

Why weren't the counterparties immediately and fully disclosed?

/snip

[masuki bance]

6. Misleading response- Spitzer wrote this now, March 17th

While the heat is on and his first sentence he brings up the bonuses, which just came to light.

[CAcyclist]

10. Oh, Give me a break. Spitzer is *Correct* to go after Geithner

'This has become an opportunity used by people like Spitzer to try and rehabilitate themselves at the cost of harming this administration."

The truth is the diametric opposite of your statement.

The harm these Chicago School economists can do to the Obama administration is unmeasureable. They are exactly the wrong people to be in place to try to correct the mistakes of the past - mistakes they helped engineer.
Geithner does need to go. Summers needs to go. Bernanke needs to go.

[yurbud]

21. good questions by Spitzer and incredibly vapid analysis by poster--not worthy of TV news

even.

Which is setting the bar pretty fucking low.

Jesus, just how many DLC shills are in here now?

[babylonsister]

24. Spitzer is out. He's been done for awhile unfortunately.

I think it's too bad because I know he's 'wicked' smart.