Dems Make Choice: Health Care Over Carbon Caps

[brianna69]

When the White House released its budget, I said the president's effort to reform health care and cap carbon emissions were "scorpions in a bottle" -- only one could make it through Congress this year.

This week, the White House and House Democrats made their choice: health care is the survivor.

As the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post have reported, House Democrats (backed by the White House) plan to write a budget resolution that allows health care to be passed by a simple majority (through the so-called "reconciliation" process) if a bipartisan compromise isn't reached by September.

Cap and trade will not get the same budget protection, and there are nowhere near 60 votes for it. Keeping it out of the reconciliation process recognizes reality: Congress can't pass it in the middle of a recession.

Health care is different.

Even though the president's plan to shave deductions is all but dead, Democrats are determined to get something done. Key Republicans are part of the process, and the business community is playing along for now.

If the bipartisan talks eventually fall apart, the White House believes President Barack Obama will still get credit for trying to reach out, which will soften the blow if the reconciliation hammer comes down in September.

cont...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/03/scorpions-in-a.html

[Thrill]

1. This is Bayh's crew in action. The Cap and Trade wasn't going to pass because Duke Energy

had already scared the folks in Indiana

[beachmom]

3. Cap and trade does raise energy prices, based on what I have

heard from relatives in Europe.

I am very much for fighting global climate change, but I think it is politically difficult to get this done this year. And the moderates basically killed it.

[beachmom]

2. Unfortunate, but it makes sense.

[karynnj]

9. I'm not 100% sure it does

In reality, I think health care could pass as stand alone as it has a real chance to get above 60, cap and trade doesn't stand a chance. Voting against health care will hurt not help any Democrat and the same is true for many Republicans.

Unlike in the 1990s, big and small business both are strongly behind getting healthcare passed as the current system is a liability to them now. In addition, a greater percent of the population does not have or fears losing health care insurance. This is now a strong voting issue.

Climate change is less tangible and many people, even those believing the science, do not have the same sense of urgency on a personal level that they have on health care. In addition, they are not 100% convinced of the effectiveness and the cost of the solution. In all election exit polls, environment has never ranked near the top of the list on voting. So, if Obama and his team REALLY believe the science, they should know that this is where they will have the toughest fight. Not putting anything on it in the budget means it needs 60 - and that is very likely impossible.

[karynnj]

4. So, we will go into Copenhagen with no chance to have a cap and trade

bill or anything meaningful. As Senator Kerry said not doing something is a suicide pact for the planet. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hM0lEau-nQw-bzcrETFs8G2d87kw

[Mass]

5. Sad, but not unexepected. However, may be some day the US pols will be able to understand it is

an issue that must be dealt with. However, I have little hope it will be before there is a major crisis.

Hopefully, the Bayh crew is not going to dilute the health bill too much or it is going to be two losses.

[LWolf]

6. You mean

we're going to get universal, single-payer, not-for-profit comprehensive health care?

Or do you mean we're going to get a broader relationship with a for-profit insurance company that will decide what level of care to "cover?"

[karynnj]

16. Has Obama (or any other candidate for President who got more than 5% of the vote)

in the last decade called for single payer, not for profit comprehensive health care?

[LWolf]

33. No.

Which is why I do not now and never have supported his health care agenda.

[amborin]

7. an outrage, and unnecessary

don't folks realize the threat of global climate change??????

why did we get to the point where it was one or the other?????

[FrenchieCat]

8. When Barack Obama has to continuously manage his mandate

and use his capital while the dumbasses, who are grateful for not one goddam thing, continue to bite at his heels!

[doc03]

10. Ok the Cap and Trade is supposed to

encourage alternative energy sources, just what would they be?

Clean coal?
wind?
hydro?
solar?
natural gas?
nuclear?

Environmentalists have problems with every one of them.

[amborin]

11. solar, for starters

[doc03]

12. Ok solar, where do us folks in areas without sunlight

most of the year get our power?

[amborin]

14. the smart grid would help with that, for starters; then more tech development

is required, to store the power gained from solar.....

some of the stimulus package devotes funds to that....but more are needed.....

huge solar farms in the mojave, in california....


wind, too, though it's sometimes/often harmful to birds and other wildlife.....

but there are other energy sources.....

[polichick]

15. Wind, water (river & ocean turbines), grains, etc. - that's what the smart grid is for...

...energy from different sources in different regions can be funneled to the grid and used when and where it is needed.

[doc03]

24. Myself I don't want any 1 million volt power line

within a mile of my house, you may think it's baseless but myself I believe the EMF does cause cancer. I think it has been downplayed by the power companies like the health problems from smoking were covered up by the tobacco companies. You believe in the global warming theory, I don't.

[polichick]

25. The global warming "theory"???

[doc03]

26. Yes theory, I don't believe it and have seen no evidence of

it to suggest that we are not just going through a normal climate cycle. You take the area were I live it has been covered with vast rain forests, glaciers and oceans over the eons there weren't any fossil fuel plants or cars back then.

[polichick]

30. Wow, you have a lot of homework to catch up on...

google "global warming science" and start reading the articles and books by first-rate nonpolitical scientists around the world.

Best of luck!

[karynnj]

37. I guess that puts you with Senator Inhofe and the flat earth caucus.

[iamthebandfanman]

29. so ur inclined to believe EMF causes cancer

even tho theres no proof(not that i disagree) but yet ur still out on global warming ?

[doc03]

31. I have three neighbors that live up against

those high voltage lines that have had brain cancer. This is a rural area and they all live less than 1/4 mile from my house, the power companies deny it just like the tobacco companies deny cigarettes are harmful. I have seen first hand evidence cigarettes kill you. But I have not seen any evidence that global warming is not just a normal climate cycle. There are people one hell of a lot smarter than me that don't believe it either. Glaciers have advanced and receded many times over the millions of years, it's just a normal cycle in my opinion. I am not saying global warming doesn't exist I just don't believe humans are the cause of it, sorry.

[polichick]

13. Bayh and his cohorts have put dirty coal and other interests over the country and the planet.

[doc03]

17. Here is my point

Hydro=Environmentalists say it kills fish.
Nuclear=Too dangerous, can't dispose of waste safely.
Coal=Environmentalists say it can't be made clean.
gas=You have to drill wells, can't have that.
wind=Unsightly, makes noise and shadows. Ted Kennedy didn't want them in his backyard.
solar=Would have to be produced in an area with sunlight like the advertisement says on a strip of desert 96 miles long. Well then it has to be distributed on the power grid. Everytime a power company tries to put new transmission lines in they get people complaining about the EMF causing cancer.

I just wonder what form of alternative power could be used without someone finding some fault with it.

[polichick]

18. We know which means of energy production are renewable and don't contribute to...

...global warming ~ very obviously, those are the ones we must invest in and perfect.

[doc03]

19. Yes but there are complaints with every single one of them n/t

[polichick]

21. All complaints are not equal. Some problems are minor and can be worked out...

...with enough R&D funding ~ others are deadly to the planet. HUGE difference.

[amborin]

22. no, there aren't; environmentalists are ok with many alternate sources

[amborin]

20. the objections have

different levels of validity

environmentalists don't have prob with wind, if it's not in migratory bird paths.....and there are ways to deal with that problem....so wind is a good option

and as for solar: folks need to get over their baseless superstitions about emf....solar is a great energy source

main bad sources are coal

gas also leads to carbon emissions

[doc03]

23. I have heard complaints about windmills killing birds,

ruining peoples view, making noise and the moving shadows from the blades bothering people. I talked to a guy this afternoon from a alternative energy group in Ohio, he said they are building 6 hydro generators on the Ohio river. I said they should have built them 30 years ago and he said probably the biggest reason they never were was all the hoops they have to jump through to satisfy the environmentalists and the Army corp of Engineers, it took them years to get the approval. Myself I don't believe the EMF is baseless yes that's the BS we get from the power companies. How can you believe the power companies are not doing the same as the tobacco companies did with cigarettes? I have one of those towers a few hundred yards from my place, when you walk under it you feel your hair stand on end. I have three neighbors that have had brain cancer thay live almost under them all live within a 1/4 mile from my house.

[amborin]

32. you get more emf

from your kitchen appliances

[DailyGrind51]

27. And this cancer survivor is very grateful!

There are people going through what I went through, without the good fortune of employer group coverage, and are, therefore, not likely to enjoy my prognosis. We cannot wait on health-care.

[iamthebandfanman]

28. yay keep us healthy so we can all die together!

what a great plan!

[Phx_Dem]

34. Sad, because we need both. But given a choice . . . Health Care!!!

Definitely health care.

[SpartanDem]

35. Obama playing the budget smarter

than he did stimulus I think he realized that he gave up too much from the start in the stimulus plan. With the budget he staring from a much stronger position and will end up with more of what he wants after the beltway haggling is over.

[depakid]

36. In other words- Dems plan to cave yet again

They just haven't figured out what processes they will use to sell everyone out.

[Teaser]

38. This environmentalist supports this move.

The environment is really the only issue I give a damn about. I have great healthcare, am well off, and not likely to ever lost employment in the near future. So when I worry, it's about the long term future of the human race and my offspring.

That said, Cap and Trade stood a chance of not even passing under budget reconciliation.

This gives us some time to corral the votes for next year. Hopefully with some more education of the public, and an improvement in the current economic situation, that can happen.

In the meantime, the EPA will regulate carbon without Congressional input. Which is technically a better solution, except that it is dependent on whose in charge in the White House.