A vegetable garden in the back yard is one thing, but when will we

[hedgehog]

see dandelions freely blooming on a herbicide free, pesticide free White House front lawn?

[rug]

1. I'm holding out for a cannabis patch.

[Deja Q]

2. Answer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z01dpneqJRE&NR=1

[patrice]

3. YES!! Dandelion greens! and "lamb's quarter" (don't know its official name). Both are edible

and good for you!

[noamnety]

4. ugh, don't promote dandelions.

they are nonnative invasive plants - not good for the environment. Same with lawns. A lawn of grass and dandelions isn't the right answer here, imho.

Better would be a wildflower meadow of native plants in place of either.

[shraby]

6. I call dandelions a gift for children..they are a bloom

that children can pick for their mother any time, any place and proudly hand mom a bouquet. No one is going to get upset.

[noamnety]

10. The point isn't whether kids like them.

the issue is that as a nonnative invasive plant, they are destructive to the environment - as are lawns they are allowed to grow in.

So we should not be promoting that as an environmentally friendly solution to anything. Why promote an environmental problem? I just don't get the logic.

[Bread and Circus]

17. What do they destroy?

[noamnety]

18. See my post 15 below. (nt)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8278828&mesg_id=8278916

[ensho]

31. you are pretty rigid, better relax more

nt

[Kdillard]

8. Native Wildflowers are a great idea.

[patrice]

12. Yes! I don't think anyone was proposing a lawn exclusively of Dandelions.

The inference one might draw from the presence of Dandelions would be dirt in its more natural state, which would include wildflowers too.

Wouldn't THAT be glorious!!! But don't expect it to happen; it would roundly be considered "going too far" . . . too Liberal!!! :-(

[cliffordu]

9. How are dandelions not good for the envoironment???

The bees areound LOVE them

[noamnety]

11. There's a huge difference between native and nonnative plants.

Native plants support the entire local ecosystem, including breeding grounds for butterflies, food for native species of birds, habitats for all kinds of critters.

Nonnative plants, by contrast might support one specific slice of an ecosystem - like bees, for example - but the end result is that they overtake and wipe out the native plants that the rest of the system is dependent on. They lead to the destruction of habitats and the extinction of species.

Noah's Garden: Restoring the Ecology of Our Own Backyards, by Sara Stein, is a great read if you really want to understand the importance of native vs. nonnative plants.

[cliffordu]

13. Ok, then how does a bioregion diversify??

[patrice]

14. Way to go cliffordu!!

:applause:

[cliffordu]

20. Aw, shucks, thanks!!

:hi:

[noamnety]

15. great question.

The goal should be to restore the biodiversity we originally had and are rapidly losing. The nonnative invasive species are responsible for destroying biodiversity. The ubiquitous desire for nonnative invasive lawngrass, for example, has wiped out huge expanses of native meadow grasses that used to be prevalent throughout the country. We've dug out and destroyed native foliage plants in favor of hostas, japanese maples, etc.

Most of these exotic plants could easily be replaced with other native species in the garden. Solomon's Seal, for example, is the environmentally responsible choice in place of hostas in my region. It supports long-tongued bees, including bumblebees, Anthophorine bees, and Little Carpenter bees. ruby-Throated Hummingbirds, short-tongued Halictid bees, Greater Prairie Chickens and various birds of the woodlands. http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/woodland/plants/solomon_seal.htm

Loss of habitat constitutes the greatest threat to the existence of native creatures and biodiversity.

The second worst threat is the biological invasion of alien plants and animals.

...

Not all non-native species are invasive and harmful. But many can completely take over and entirely change whole established ecosystems. These are the non-natives that invade an established environment; therefore, they are invasive. Invasive species may be as harmless looking as green plants or a frog. They don't have to be vicious looking to bring harm to an area. They may even be beautiful to look at. This could have a detrimental effect on native species if bees or other pollinators preferred the flowering displays of the invasive species over the native species. Many humans want to design their own ecosystems to fit their needs. They bring in ornamental flowering trees, non-native fish, specialty seeds, and unusual animals. This can wreak havoc on the natural species and the established habitat.

Ornamental exotic plants, flowers and trees, or animals that are brought into an ecosystem may increase the diversity of species locally; but, then the introduced species can take over, crowd out or kill the native indigenous species, and in some cases cause extinctions of particular species of plants and animals. This has happened in island ecosystems where alien species caused the total destruction of local species that existed nowhere else on the planet. Therefore, the species became extinct and the biodiversity of our planet further reduced.

http://www.eco-pros.com/invasive_non-native_species.htm

[cliffordu]

19. Well.....when you say stuff like:

"The goal should be to restore the biodiversity we originally had and are rapidly losing."

Seeing as how bioregions are dynamic entities, which snapshot do you want to go back to???

What will you allow to change? will it be by selective breeding of orchids, for instance??

You don't get to impose some fucking stasis or "good old days" view on nature, or you are little more than some guy on his lawn digging out crabgrass by hand.

Here is an example:

We have scotchbroom out here in Washington.

It's a noxious weed and people out here hate it.

Feeds deer and rabbits and gives great cover to quail and bobcats...

The old growth that it replaced does none of the above.

And, oddly enough, scotchbroom feeds goats real well, too.

Our sense of importance in nature except as a destructive force is highly overrated.

[noamnety]

21. Not sure why we are arguing here.

This is accepted environmental science - kind of like global warming.

When you replace native species in an area with invasive nonnative plants, you are destroying native habitats and destroying biodiversity in the entire ecosystem. That's a bad thing.

Ecosystem: a natural unit consisting of all plants, animals and micro-organisms (biotic factors) in an area functioning together with all of the non-living physical (abiotic) factors of the environment. An ecosystem is a completely independent unit of interdependent organisms which share the same habitat. Ecosystems usually form a number of food webs which show the interdependence of the organisms within the ecosystem.

If you don't understand the relationship between native species and ecosystems, the book I recommended above is a great start point.

You could also read some here:

Compared to other threats to biodiversity, invasive introduced species rank second only to habitat destruction, such as forest clearing.

Of all 1,880 imperiled species in the United States, 49% are endangered because of introduced species alone or because of their impact combined with other forces.

In fact, introduced species are a greater threat to native biodiversity than pollution, harvest, and disease combined.

More: http://www.actionbioscience.org/biodiversity/simberloff.html

[hedgehog]

25. That's a great idea - I want something other than Hosta to liven up my shady border!

[noamnety]

29. The ones I have are variegated with white blooms

They are every bit as decorative as hostas. They spread a little, but not in an invasive way - not popping up all over, the clumps just get larger from one year to the next, so if you wanted to divide them either for yourself or to give away, they are good for that.

If you are hungry, the young shoots can be boiled and eaten like asparagus.

[Bread and Circus]

30. The only place I've ever seen dandelion grow is on my lawn...anywhere you don't

mow, dandelion isn't really growing to the kind of degree it's an issue from what I've seen.

I had 2 to 3 acres of mowed grass dappled w/ dandelions. My other 17 acres was left to weeds, brush, and trees. The dandelions didn't grow in the weeds and brush because the dandelions are short and just couldn't compete for sunlight.

I just didn't see it as a problem except it made my lawn yucky looking sometimes.

I inherited the 2 acres of lawn but after a while I just let most of it go wild and the dandelions just died off.

[ensho]

5. actually dandylions are quite pretty - and many people make tea

from new spring leaves.

dandylions don't deserve to die by toxin. in the old days people used a special garden tool to uproot dandylions from a lawn leaving hardly any upset in the grass.

I just ran over them with the mower. some of them were very crafty and made their lovely yellow blossoms real close to the ground so the mower wouldn't get them. lol

[kas125]

27. I use one of those tools, it's called a Weed Hound

I love it!

[cliffordu]

28. I make tea out of them sometimes too.....

Dandelions TREMBLE in my presence....

:rofl:

[NightWatcher]

7. I liken the WH Garden to Carter's solar panels....an example to us all

I've taken the cue and am trying to get my own Victory Garden planned and executed

[otohara]

16. I'd Like to See A White House Compost Also

to deal with all the unwanted food from state dinners.

Dear Michele,
Composting would be a very good thing for all to see and learn about.

[patrice]

22. YYYYyyyeeeeeeeee . . . HHHhhhhaaaaaaa!! Wouldn't THAT be a sign of REALITY!

And my sweet departed Daddy would LOVE it!!

And, oh yeah, how about some Bee hives? . . . Some dreams are worthwhile!

[asphalt.jungle]

23. i think they already have one

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/dining/20garden.html?em

"The plots will be in raised beds fertilized with White House compost, crab meal from the Chesapeake Bay, lime and green sand. Ladybugs and praying mantises will help control harmful bugs."

and to answer patrice's comment who just responded above, they'll have bee hives too.

"A White House carpenter, Charlie Brandts, who is a beekeeper, will tend two hives for honey."

[hedgehog]

24. Those bees will need some flowers!

:hide:

[ensho]

32. the WH Garden Plan had an area of merigolds

(merigolds planted among cabbage, for instance, can help control pests.)

[otohara]

26. Very Good

very good indeed.