Obama's new rallying cry: 'No, we can't.'

[brentspeak]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hYgIQn8PGXuvECxih3E7bVw_-vBgD975QO9O0

Obama says the ideal path to universal health care is to build on the current system that relies in part on employer plans rather than scrap what has existed for generations.

Asked why the U.S. couldn't opt for a European system, Obama said the United States has a legacy of employer-based plans that have filled the needs of a majority of Americans. He said the country has a set of institutions that aren't easily transformed.

He said he is looking to Congress to find that optimal system and it needs to be overhauled now rather than waiting for decades.

He said the biggest driver of the nation's long-term deficit is Medicare and Medicaid.

"Change" that the ruling elite can believe in.

[babylonsister]

1. What a surprise coming from you.

Not. He's trying to get something done vs. nothing. But you don't see that because of your anti-Obama tunnel vision.

[BeFree]

12. He's not a real revolutionary?

Seems he believes in the capitalist system. Gawd, how did the good socialists in this country elect such a capitalist?

[LynnTheDem]

31. I was just having the same thought.

:eyes:

[alteredstate]

109. Me too.

eom

[FrenchieCat]

2. Why should he agree to issues that he doesn't agree with.....?

Yes we can not get all straight out unreasonably crazy and totally ridiculous....or can we?

[harun]

56. We need to pressure the House and Senate to pass H.R. 676. That hits

Obama's desk and he WILL NOT veto it.

[eridani]

73. To stop insurance companies from continuing to kill 18,000 a year?

Well, hell, why should he care? Quite a few of those 18,000 pay for his health care.

[MadHound]

110. Because this is a representative democracy where the majority of people favor single payer UHC,

And as the duly elected representative of the people, it is Obama's duty, at least in part, to implement the programs that the majority of people in this country favor.

[Bread and Circus]

3. I believe Obama wants single payer but knows he can't pass it w/ the

Claire McCaskills and the Evan Bayhs of the world still in congress.

[brentspeak]

10. Then why doesn't he say that?

Why doesn't he just say, "Single-payer is by far the best system available. I urge you to contact your senators and representatives and get them to support me on this."

[FrenchieCat]

18. Because he is a good politician?

Why is it better to force for folks who want to continue to do what they are doing to stop doing it when it is something as personal as their health care?

Let the option for something better be there, and let people choose it. It's like the reason that 8 track tapes are no longer the norm....not because they were outlawed and made to disappear, but because folks just stopped buying them!

[Two Americas]

82. ahhh

So you are claiming the the public does not support single payer?

And you see health care as a consumer choice?

May we disagree with you about that? Or would that be disloyal, and prove we have an "agenda" to hurt America?


...

[Runcible Spoon]

87. Pathetic logic.

Obama doesn't care about popular opinion and giving voters direct influence on this issue any more than he does when it comes to bailouts, education, Afghanistan, immigration/border control, pot legalization, etc.

Which is to say he cares about what we think to the point that we don't get upset enough to actually DO something about it; translation: he doesn't really give a fuck what we think now that he's elected as long as we don't get pesky and start protesting. He has an agenda, and he's going to pursue it.

[Bread and Circus]

23. I like Obama a lot and I also like the frank truth a lot. However, the frank truth

isn't always the best thing to say if you have other goals in mind. The stealth avenue in all this that Obama has in his plan is "public health insurance" which will in effect be subsidized and have lower administrative overhead. It will then become more competitive to private insurance. This will encourage the transition to public care. It's the back door to a single payer system.

I think think this is the trick Obama is trying to pull off.

However, if he just comes out and says it...then the "socialist medicine" meme will be used to create a backlash that might derail progress.

If folks like Claire McCaskill and Evan Bayh weren't there to submarine plans and if we had a 60 vote filibuster proof LIBERAL senate, then we'd be seeing Single Payer.

Obama has to figure out a way to work w/ the congress he has and frame the arguments in a way that don't seem like too much change too soon.

[Sebass1271]

26. not only that he needs to deal with the Bayhs of the world

but also the media. The AIG bonus bruhaha was caused by the rethugs with the help of the msm trying to paint Obama as if he knew and didn't do anything about it. The media will not let obama work for a single payer system.... Obama must do this on his own, like he is doing it now.. take the single payer system off the table "for now" and stick it to the media when he knows for sure he can bring it back...

[MarjorieG]

66. Throughout camapign said single payer not possible now, combo of both. Truthful reasons.

[Two Americas]

85. irrelevant

The people want single payer, it is the right thing to do, and we have a duty to strongly advocate for it.

Whatever the public supports is possible, and the public supports single payer.

These "it isn't possible" arguments were used against the Abolitionists, against the Labor organizers, against the Civil Rights marchers, and were just as true then as the argument against single payer is today.

Of course "it isn't possible." Nothing worth doing, no progressive reform is possible in the beginning, and never would become possible if people did not agitate for it.

Our job - our duty and our moral responsibility - is to make it possible, and the way to do that is to continue to speak out for it.


...

[Two Americas]

97. that is nothing

That is nothing compared to the Dixiecrats Johnson had to deal with to pass Civil Rights legislation. Single payer has more public support then Civil Rights did, there was more hostility to Civil Rights then there is to single payer, and the Dems nave the biggest majorities either party has had in 20 years.

The only reason Obama has to do anything alone, is because his supporters are doing everything they can to undermine and sabotage any efforts at generating public demand so that Obama has cover for fighting for single payer. He is being forced to play cautiously. The self-proclaimed true-blue Obama fans call this "support" and "loyalty," but it is a prime example of how this type of hero worship is actually crippling the administration and limiting its options. The more people turn the president into a love object the less free he is to be a successful politician. They don't seem to care about that - indulging their adoration for the personality of the president trumps everything.


...

[Teaser]

107. Please stop being smart

the zombie contingent here doesn't want to hear that.

They want to eat brains, not use them.

[Two Americas]

84. indeed

The solution is to build public pressure. Yet we have Obama "defenders" who are trying to discourage any attempts at building public pressure. Odd sort of "defense" and "support" for the president - isolating him and depriving him of public support.

[tonysam]

112. Pressure Needs to be Put on Him AND

the "blue dogs" to be able to put any meaningful health care reform on the table.

I don't think you are going to see single-payer anytime soon, though, and it's all because of two things: politicians who take bribes from the health care industry and want to continue getting those bribes, and the lack of political will stemming in part from being bribed.

[MessiahRp]

30. I'm tired of this answer....

Same answer was given in the thread about his response to legalizing marijuana. You can't say that Obama intends to support any of this stuff. I believe he's 100% behind this failure of a health care plan and I don't think this is about politics. He's saying what he wants to do. To defend him by claiming he is actually for the policies that we want here (which also happen to make more common sense for the average working American, a constituency that is almost completely unrepresented in Congress) but he knows politically it would be a bad move to come out for it is just a poor excuse trying to cover Obama for being too wrong and too pro-corporate America on WAY too many subjects.

He's wrong on health care. Wrong on legalization of Marijuana. Wrong on assigning Geithner, Summers and more of the people that got us into this mess to handle the crisis. Wrong on refusing to consider nationalization of the largest banks and AIG when we should do so and break them apart and sell their assets to end the 'Too Big to Fail' issue that is holding our country hostage.

But hey he's a Democrat and we voted for him so no matter how wrong he is we need to act like he's the greatest, smartest guy out there and pretend he's for the right things even when he is dead wrong on them.

Rp

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. As is typical the case, you forgot a few key words....

(In my opinion) He's wrong on health care.
(In my opinion) Wrong on legalization of Marijuana.
(In my opinion) Wrong on assigning Geithner, Summers and more of the people that got us into this mess to handle the crisis.
(In my opinion) Wrong on refusing to consider nationalization of the largest banks and AIG when we should do so and break them apart and sell their assets to end the 'Too Big to Fail' issue that is holding our country hostage.

Don't forget for one single moment that you may not be right on these issues. I agree that marijuana should be legalized and that we should have a single payer system, but those are my opinions and I do not pretend that they are facts.

Furthermore, do you know what separates someone like Obama from Dennis Kucinich? They might, in fact, agree on most things. Heck, I'd go so far as to say that they probably do. But the former knows that it won't and can't happen exactly as he wants it and tries to find an alternative that might work, whereas the other keeps running into the same brick wall, over and over again, and finds himself entirely marginalized outside of his district and a small faction on DU. One is President, the other is a 7 term congressman that can't even swing becoming chair of a committee. At least Kucinich as the hotter wife (in my humble opinion) and has that great feeling of moral supremacy, right?

On the other hand, if you truly do have all the answers to the country's problems, why aren't you running for office? Are you not the greatest, smartest guy out there?

[MessiahRp]

47. You can have the right answers but not be good at winning a popularity contest.

Let's face it, the elections are nothing more than a "who do I like more" student council race at this point. Ideas are usually trumped by "likeability". Also and I think you're forgetting a key ingredient here... the media will only allow those who are not a threat to the corporatocracy in which they exist to have a serious chance. Obama, while he might represent change on some things as a whole is not all that threatening to the ruling elites. He was deemed acceptable. Kucinich was not.

And for my ideas being right... look I use common sense like the next guy but even the slightest research shows the health benefits of marijuana and what increased tax revenue could do to fund budgetary projects like health care and social security. Similar research can show how much it costs our government to house non-violent drug offenders and how it would save us money to release them.


Research also will show how Single payer health care works in other western nations and any statistical data at all can show you how expensive and inefficient HMOs are.

A basic background check will show you Geithner and Summers' resumes and news articles will show their connections to many of the economic messes we're in as well as plenty of quotes to go with it. History will show you what the government had to do when trusts got out of hand and previous Presidents had to break corporate rule up a bit. It will also speak of the successes related to that.

Hell DU has links every day providing such research.

The problem isn't that it's my opinion... it's not even that this information isn't widely available. It's that Obama, his Administration and most of Washington want nothing to do with it. They don't even want to hear it.

Corporate interests work every day against these ideas and as much as Obama pretends to be free of lobbyist rule, he and other Washington politicians still bow down at the money trough and refuse to fight against those would bankrupt the country at the expense of the middle class and poor because those same people that would bankrupt us own the media sources to manipulate us.

I don't expect Obama to be Kucinich, but I do expect better from him than his current approach to many of these topics.

I expected a fighter. So far I am seeing a President willing to backpedal to Blue Dogs, Republicans and Lobbyists on most major issues. Yeah he'll be snippy with them once in a while but ultimately he hasn't been willing to get in the mud and fight it out with these people yet. It makes him no different than Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi. After all they all have the same masters and all of them share the same spinelessness.

Rp

[genna]

57. Wolfwood's point has merit in the sense that person who can carry the ball will be out front.

Kucinch may be all that and a bag of chips but if he can't move outside of his sphere of influence, how can we politically move forward on his ideas.

I won't put it to you to run for office. I think I shouldn't ask you to do something that I wouldn't do myself. I think they are asked to do too much b.s. in order to manage the government for all of us. I don't believe that private sins should be out there for all of us to taunt and jeer the public servant for (ie. sex outside of marriage---I am ambivilant on whether Clinton's fidelity is/was a public policy problem. I don't think Elliot Spitzer's high risk sexual high wire act with prostitutes should be THE reason to remove him from high office. Whereas I think the whole glory hole deal with the western state Republican Senator was a little over the top, I don't think it is a qualification for office to keep someone in or out of office.). If all our sexual predilections were put out in public to be scrutinized by everyone, I doubt anyone would get a perfect score from most quarters.


I would say there is a serious problem expecting Obama, Clinton, or any politician to be completely consistent.

(In my opinion) Strategically, He should have pushed health care FIRST.
(In my opinion) Morally, I think if we keep tobacco and alcohol legal, then I think we should legalize some illegal drugs and tax them as high as we possibly can with similar restrictions for growers, manufacturers, and sellers. They should all be subject to help alleviate the social ills they cause (ie. alcohol advertisers do commercials trying to fight drunk driving...please drink responsibly. I think they should also have to subsidize drug treatment clinics.)

(In my opinion) Obama should have rolled out re-regulation measures at the same time that he was suggesting that he would continue what Paulson and Bush did in bailing out failing Wall Street people. I don't think he was wrong in getting Wall Street movers and shakers involved. I am willing to suspend my disbelief until I see what his regulation underpinning is to remove Wall Street's propensity to take away the small investors' money. When bankers walk away from a bust with 1 billion dollars and pensions/charities leave with nothing, I have to ask: where is the regulator and prosecutor?

If Obama or Holder don't come out with some take downs, I will be just as disappointed as you.



(In my opinion) They will nationalize banks through the FDIC whether they call it nationalization or not. AIG is on its way to being broken apart and sell their assets sold, it just will not be placed in those terms.

The biggest non verb I've ever heard: deleverage. Doesn't that mean broke, lost money hand over fist, or just busted and disgusted?

[Two Americas]

88. of course

Of course we are all expressing our opinions.

This is not about "having all the answers to the country's problems" - that is an absurd statement - and we live in a representative democracy, so that means that the average citizen has a right to speak out and is a participant in the government. Saying that only those who run for office have opinions worthy of consideration, and all who are not in office or running for office are therefore discredited, is talking as though we had a dictatorship or monarchy.

Why should we listen to you if you are not running for office? - to apply your own ridiculous test.

What difference does the relative electability of a particular candidate have to do with policy?

Those who agree with Kucinich are not a small faction here. He had 70% support here early in the race. Those who agree with Kucinich are not a small faction in the general public either. Pew Research did an exhaustive study on this, and 60-89% of the people support very left wing positions on all of the issues, when they are presented in a non-partisan way.

Kucinich did not have the access to money that the other candidates did, and in opinion polls during the primary 70% and more of the respondents did not even know who Kucinich was. In any case, Kucinich had other liabilities as a candidate - mostly a matter of celebrity image and style.

So you are saying that those whom the media decides to cover, who attract the most money, and who fits a celebrity profile, are therefore whom we should all defer to? We should see them as smarter, as better? Odd and anti-democratic doctrine you are prompting.

Adhering to principles and ideals and speaking out for them you mock as "that great feeling of moral supremacy?"

"Hotter wife???" Good grief.



...

[Bread and Circus]

48. Whatever man...

[Two Americas]

86. yep

Remember before the election, his zealous promoters claimed that he was everything progressive and wonderful, if we would just read his book we would see that, but that he needed to "run to the right" in order to get elected, and then once he was in office he would be moving to the Left. We were also told to withhold criticism until the election was over, and then after Dems were in office we could speak out. Then it became "he needs to govern from the right" or the center, or whatever, and that NOW is still not the time for us to speak out, because that helps Republicans or something. "He isn't elected yet" became "he has only been in office 2 weeks" which became "he has only been in office for 60 days" which is now becoming "it isn't practical" and who knows what else.

[friedgreentomatoes]

98. I post less

but can't resist answering your post as
who knows what else = he had only two terms!

PS. This post is directed not towards Obama but towards his overzealous supporters.

[Two Americas]

99. important point

"This post is directed not towards Obama but towards his overzealous supporters."

Exactly.

Here is what I predict -

"He has only been out of office 10 years. It is too soon to pass judgment on his administration!"


...

[Yavin4]

119. THANK YOU!!!!

And that's the problem.

[Dawgs]

4. Exactly. Eariler I said that Obama shit on single payer, which is untrue.

He thinks single payer is a GREAT idea. He just doesn't think we can do it right now, because... it's too hard.

[stillcool]

9. whoops..double post..

[Dawgs]

13. I don't know. But, if it's the best idea, why are immediately kicking it to the curb?

Obama is probably right. It would be very difficult to change the current system.

But, do we have to drop single-payer from discussion right away?

[stillcool]

16. we don't have to drop it

from discussion. It would be great if we had the discussion more with the people who could actually get it done. But that's not going to happen, is it?

[iamthebandfanman]

64. since when did something being 'difficult'

stop us from pursuing it?

gees, with that kinda mentality nothing would ever get done.


;)

[stillcool]

11. Would the people who represent you..

vote for it?

[cliffordu]

5. Brentspeak's new rallying cry: I'm bloviating!!!!

[Peacetrain]

6. Apparently you were not an Obama supporter during the primary... he always proposed a combination

of public and private insurance..

[dflprincess]

22. Which many of us weren't happy with while he was campaigning

and we're not happy with it now. We're consistant as well.

If he really thinks employer based plans continue to be the answer, he's badly out of touch (of course, his employer provides him with a pretty good plan). Everyone I know is complaining about the way their employers are cutting back on their insurance plans. In addition to higher premiums the deductibles and copays are going through the roof. The result is that more people are putting off check ups and trying to stretch their medications. Health insurance does not equal health care and the sooner Obama figures that out the better off we'll all be.

[OwnedByFerrets]

101. "Health insurance does not equal health care"

OMG, what a great statement. No truer words have ever been spoken.

[Skittles]

121. CORRECT

[asphalt.jungle]

7. to paraphrase bernie sanders from last night

people are outraged that he's following through on his campaign promises.

if he campaigned on single-payer then i could understand mocking his "Change" campaign slogan.

[Dawgs]

8. But if he thinks single-payer is the best option, why not do it?

Why mention it today?

[redqueen]

20. Politics.

You should check it out sometime.

[Thrill]

14. YAWN same shit a different day from this poster

[brentspeak]

15. Shouldn't you be ordering some minimum wage slave around to hurry up with your latte?

[FrenchieCat]

21. Slaves don't get paid.

But you knew that!

[Runcible Spoon]

90. But "paid operatives" do, don't they Frenchie?

:rofl:

[Teaser]

108. ZOMBIE

.

[ProSense]

17. Your sloganeering means nothing,

and will mean even less when Obama overhauls the system.

[avaistheone1]

102. He said he was not going to overhaul the system, just fill in the gaps.

That approach sucks. It means we are stuck with the same system, but this time we have to buy health insurance and give these guys our tax dollars. From what I have seen the plan Obama offers is not affordable, despite his words to the contrary. It will be of little help to most of the working and middle class.

[ecstatic]

19. ...

"Was that an epic fail or what?"

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. can't change the US health system in a year but maybe by 2012

People have to be realistic and patient.

[Jennicut]

28. Patience...dirty word!

Seriously. Maybe he does not like single payer or maybe he wants to implement things slowly. The daily freak out over every little thing is laughable.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

37. i know!

[paulk]

25. it's disappointing

considering that Obama sold himself as some kind of leader.

If he truly believed in single payer as the best option, he should be doing what a leader does -



Lead.

[Windy]

27. He is the first true leader we've had in the whitehouse for decades...

For some here, if its not Dennis K, they will never be happy.

And just how successful do you think Mr. Kucinich would be in office if by some stretch he was elected president?

I like Dennis, but he is NOT what this country needs right now.

[paulk]

33. I can't stand DK

so I'm not sure who your post is addressed to...

[Runcible Spoon]

94. You can't stand DK?

What the fuck did he ever do to you?

I guess it's easy to hate someone who tirelessly pushes for social justice and transparency in government. I mean, those are some terrible qualities right there. :eyes:

[paulk]

95. for the first six years he was in the House

he was one of the most reliable anti-abortion votes in the Congress. NARAL gave him a 5% rating.

He voted his religious beliefs (Catholic) over the party platform, and any politician that lets his or her religion affect their vote is

a piece of shit, AFAIC.

[Runcible Spoon]

118. Well, he saw the error of his ways and changed

Unlike the other 99.9% of our elected "democrats".

[paulk]

120. actually, he decided to run for President

and changed his ways...

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Two Americas]

89. personalities

This has nothing to do with personalities, and which personality happens to be your personal favorite, or anyone else's personal favorite.

What you like or do not like is not relevant to anything either, and what the country needs is single payer, not having one personality or the other in any particular office.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zynx]

29. He has a good point. The very fact that the healthcare industry grew to be 18% of GDP

means that large scale reform is very difficult. We need to reform bit by bit to get this done. In time we can get there.

[NYC_SKP]

32. HEY, brentspeak! Take one of these and call me in the morning....

:P



:hi:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phx_Dem]

35. Good. I'm support Obama's original health care proposal as

opposed to single-payer.

[Hamlette]

39. This is the ONLY way Americans are going to accept it

If he were to throw everything out and put everyone on some form of Medicaid or Medicare there would be a whine from every corner of this country that would drown out everything else.

We wouldn't win the WH again in this century.

Herd us zombie sheep into it slowly. Let us think we're only making changes at the edges and eventually move us all to single payer.

Universal Health care was FDR #1 priority from day one of his first term. If FDR couldn't do it, we're gonna have to be subtle and try to come at it from a different angle. That's what Obama's doing.

[demo dutch]

40. Just get it done!

[leftofthedial]

41. Just say no!

Status quo that we can believe in.

Building a wealthier status quo on Wall Street!

Ensuring a richer, more entrenched status quo in health care!

Enforcing a more rigid authoritarian nation uber alles!

Ja! Wir Können!

[Barack_America]

42. So? That's not so different from what Canada has.

I think it's a reasonable middle ground and a logical first step.

[MarjorieG]

65. These countries have large taxes, so difficult from where we are with tax resistance.

Citizens don't understand we have to pay for services.

[eridani]

74. No, they don't

They pay only slightly more than we do as a percentage of income, and don't have to pay "premiums" to a bunch of parasites in addition.

[nichomachus]

43. "Can't" lives on "I Don't Want To Street" n/t

[kpominville]

45. Yes We Can...

...But we won't.

[Captain Hilts]

46. 'Employer-based' discourages labor mobility and self-employment. Not fair to unemployed. nt

[MarjorieG]

53. But a choice would fulfill need for those who don't pay into employer plans.

That's the idea behind public/private, with the hope that public builds and industry/employess aren't shocked overnight.

[laugle]

59. The unemployed can get COBRA. I believe he has already

put something in the stimulus package for that. My accountant is on disability and mentioned something about it. He is currently paying $450 a month, I'm not sure what it will be with Barack's current proposal.

[Captain Hilts]

76. Only for a limited time and many unemployed just can't afford COBRA. nt

[laugle]

77. Well there's always mediCAL. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

105. For those in CA

MediCal is a California state plan. One state only. Hence the CAL in the name. The Federal program is called MedicAid.

[laugle]

114. You are correct, it was too late to edit, when I realized the error. Thanks! nt

[eridani]

49. Bullshit. The majority of Americans never get expensively sick

So existing insurance fills their mostly non-existent needs. The average person has about as much clue about how good their health insurance is as they do about how good their local fire department is--that is to say, none whatsoever. If they stay lucky, they'll never have to find out. Their ignorance, based mostly on being busy with lots of other stuff in their lives, should not be allowed to continue to kill sick people.

[brentspeak]

50. You forgot the 'sarcasm' tag

[eridani]

63. Not sarcasm. 5% of the population accounts for 50% of all health care expenses

15% accounts for 85% of all health care expenses. The other 85% account for 15%, and thees are the people who think they are satisfied with their insurance.

[MarjorieG]

51. The House included public. How was the campaign plan to cover both? Medicare?

Of we can rein in Medicare waste, errors, can't we still start with that. I know the deficits remain what they argue, but it's not the lobbyist reason.

[Ikonoklast]

52. More "Daily Hate" from the OP.

I guess the term 'political reality' means nothing to you.

[quickesst]

54. I think a lot of people....

...in the democratic/left world would have been happier had the repugs won the election. That way they could continue their lives as the perpetual victims of "evil" government, taking every opportunity to wallow in their misery while inflating their own sense of worth by loudly pointing out the obvious when it comes to a repug administration. I browse DU while watching the evening msm, and funny thing, it used to be easy to tell which was which. Thanks.
quickesst

[dysfunctional press]

55. the health insurance profiteers have to GO!

and president lackluster has to get that through his fucking head.

[Patchuli]

69. "president lackluster?"

President Obama is like a diamond among the turds of Washington. He may not do everything I want him to do, when I want him to but then he's in charge because he is more capable than I. There's nothing "lackluster" about Barack Obama. I take it you were a fan of another candidate...

[dysfunctional press]

71. my one driving issue is single-payer healthcare...

and if he's going to shit all over it as a possibility- then he's become extremely lackluster in my book. and no, i wasn't a fan of another candidate- i'm from chicago.

[Two Americas]

91. "more capable"

Deferring to those in power, because they are "smarter" than we are or "more capable" is the thinking of a subject under a dictatorship or monarchy. "Our fearless leaders know what they are doing, and we need to be quiet and follow our great and wise rulers."

This has nothing to do with being a "fan" of a candidate. Most people here supported a candidate other than Obama at one time. That does not make them suspect of anything. Those promoting a particular sort of shallow "loyalty" and "support" for the president are the ones who always bring up the idea of being a fan, or having a favorite personality, and may be projecting that idea onto everyone else.


...

[Runcible Spoon]

92. You would be slightly less annoying if you limited your use of tired-ass attacks

OMG SOMEONE CRITICIZED OBAMA THEY MUST BE PUMAS/REPUKES/NADERITES!

Oh, and patchouli REEKS. Did you spell it incorrectly deliberately?

[mvd]

58. That doesn't sound like a denial of single payer

It sounds like he thinks we can't get there right away:

"Asked why the U.S. couldn't opt for a European system, Obama said the United States has a legacy of employer-based plans that have filled the needs of a majority of Americans. He said the country has a set of institutions that aren't easily transformed."

He might be right. I'd like him to say some more good things about single payer at least, but I knew that Obama wouldn't be my ideal - Kucinich.

[BlooInBloo]

60. You people are sad.

:rofl:

[PM Martin]

61. It's still early and he has a lot to deal with.

[Danger Mouse]

62. Apparently taking a shit in the middle of the forum is good enough for 13 recs.

[kid a]

68. and the stink lingers

[firedupdem]

67. You should really get over your issues. Ridiculous n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

70. Single Payer would mean tons of people in the insurance industry lose their jobs

That's what he meant when he said it was a good idea if we were building a new system. But it would be a giant disruption to an already fragile economy if we were to try and implement it now.

[eridani]

75. Right. And overhauling our prison system would make a lot of guards unemployed

And quitting the imperial bullying habit would make a lot in the "defense" industry unemployed. No help for it--I guess we just have to go on paying people to shit all over their fellow citizens.

[brentspeak]

78. A single-payer health system could create brand new job markets

both directly - to service a new health system - as well as indirectly improve employment in all other areas.

[EndElectoral]

72. Highly dissapointing. C'mon Barack.. ..we need real universal health care

[AZBlue]

79. How are you still on DU??

It baffles the mind.

[laugle]

96. What a

nasty, unnecessary, rude comment! You seem to be the one hating on other members. Why don't you give it a rest!

[Jennicut]

80. Obama never ever proposed single payer. Ever. Never ever ever. So why the outrage?

God, this is starting to get annoying. If you are so into "purity" then why vote for him in the first place? It was his same proposal WAY back when he started. Don't give me the old...well it was him or McCain crap.
I am all out of being outraged this week, I have no more left. Except when it comes to the Rethugs and daily pounding by the media on Obama's "socialist" budget. Learn where the real enemies are first.

[Runcible Spoon]

93. "Don't give me the old...well it was him or McCain crap"

Well, why not? That's what it came down to, isn't it?

"I am all out of being outraged this week, I have no more left." So I shall assume you're done with your bashing of anyone who doesn't shit Obama rainbows?

"Learn where the real enemies are first." That's GREAT advice, Jenn. FOLLOW IT. People who are pushing Obama to deliver on his promise of actual CHANGE are NOT you enemies. People who criticize their government are NOT your enemies. Even the vast majority of Freepers aren't your enemies...your enemies are the ones holding the reins of power behind the scenes, bankrupting our nation while they ride away from burning Rome on their golden parachutes.

[Jennicut]

111. The Rethugs are the enemies and the media and Dems who go along with them

Obama is trying to push this more liberal budget and guess who is attacking him? The so called moderate Dems. Hence the real enemies.
The Rethugs and these so called moderate Dems do not want a public option what so ever for health care. Dean has argued for one. I hope Obama has at least a mix of one. I will attack and criticize him when need be.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[politicasista]

83. LOL!

:rofl:

[MadLabrador]

100. Obama lost me after his marijuana bullshit, so I stopped expecting change

[Mr. Hyde]

103. I think it was when he gave away billions of dollars to an elite group of billionaires

that I gave up on him. The pot thing was totally expected. HC reform? That bullshit was called in the primaries but nobody wanted to hear it. Now it's "all good" all of a sudden. Oh, and what happened to getting out of Iraq with the same recklessness as when we entered it? More BS. But, once again, it's all good. And where the fuck is my pony?

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

115. LOL You're right, marijuana law reform are definitely problem number 1 right now, and are a

deal breaker for me too... :eyes:

[Political Heretic]

104. If single payer was a deal breaker for you then you shouldn't have voted for him.

He was clear on this from the beginning.

I would like someone to answer the question about single payer: why are we so sure that a centralized system exponentially larger than any in another industrialized nation is actually going to work well?

France has great health care? Sweet. They also have a fraction of the people we do..... ?

I haven't seen Sicko yet, and generally - in theory - I think single payer sounds GREAT. But does the documentary, or does anyone else ever address this concern?

[Teaser]

106. BORING.

god these posts are just so boring.

[kid a]

113. wow...i opened up to "mad magazine" today...

nt

[Skip Intro]

116. "He said the biggest driver of the nation's long-term deficit is Medicare and Medicaid." - ?!

Moreso than the military beast or the interest we pay to the fed on the loans to us of our own money?

Why attack medicare and medicaid?

[opihimoimoi]

117. Trying to fix the GOP's & Bushies Fuckups can be a Bitch.....

[rucky]

122. As long as he doesn't budge on the public option, he's keeping his promises. n/t