Which Godless Communist Latte Drinking PUMA Homo Made This Quote:

[Political Heretic]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

[billyoc]

1. Jefferson. And there are no communist PUMAs. Take it back.

:rofl:

[Hissyspit]

3. No, not Jefferson:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp

[Political Heretic]

6. Not really "false" - just "unverified" which I didn't know.

But I'm fine with attributed to Jefferson, since it is attributed to him in congressional record, even if years later.

so "attributed to" rather than "said."

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. No, 'false' - the word 'deflation' is a century out of place

No-one would have understood it if Jefferson had said it. Hell, 'inflation' probably wouldn't have been understood - 30 years before anyone wrote it down with the financial meaning.

The quote is demonstrably false. "Attributed to" as in "someone lied about who said it". You've just been lied to by another politician, that's all. Being in the congressional record doesn't make something true. That's a good lesson.

[Political Heretic]

17. I'm not sure I believe that, but I'm also not trying to defend its origin either.

If its false, its false - my mistake.

I'm not sure I'm convinced its "certain" but I certainly won't tag it to Jefferson in the future. :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Heh - so a 20th century politician made it up, and then lied about who said it

Seems par for the course.

[Political Heretic]

14. That's not exactly what I got from reading....

:wtf:

[27inCali]

53. sounds like Wilson

or maybe Roosevelt?

[billyoc]

13. You know, I wouldn't feel so bad if this was the first time I've been corrected about that.

Probably by you. :rofl:

[Political Heretic]

16. LOL I've had that quote for years and never knew it was of suspect origin!

Learn something every day.

[freddie mertz]

40. Did you get it from someone online?

I guess the lesson is "trust but verify.":patriot:

[Political Heretic]

42. No, but honestly I don't frequently look up every attributed quote I come across.

Probably a vulnerability, but I suspect you don't either.

Hell I've never bothered to verify half the quotes I read as Martin Luther King Jr's are actually his. My interest in verification is proportional to how serious it is if I'm wrong.

In this case, not serious at all so.... there you go. :)

If I was writing a master's thesis... then I'd be sourcing any and everything that happened to have quotation marks around it :)

[freddie mertz]

46. I understand...

I have encountered the quote on the net before and in at least a few cases, it was associated with the postings of Ron Paul, anti-Fed types.

I wonder how it ever got started?

[Hissyspit]

18. Sorry, I've never corrected anyone about it before. But it has shown up so many times over the past

couple of weeks! Don't mean to be a "Quote Nazi." :D

Jefferson wrote many quite similar things.

[Political Heretic]

21. I'm glad you did - I didn't realize it was unverified (or proven false whatever)

I'm not an expert about how to judge authenticity by the anachronisticity (yeah I made that up) of certain words, and I find myself highly skeptical...

But that's totally an aside. I won't be connecting that with Jefferson anymore either way.

Still, the actual quote of Jefferson's that Snopes gives right below that is as brutal of not more so than the one I put up there heh.

[Hissyspit]

24. Yes, I tried to cut and paste it, but it seems Snopes won't let you.

Or at least me on my Mac.

[freddie mertz]

48. Thanks for the link.

These sorts of false quotes and urban legends are a fascinating study on their own.

I have encountered it in posts by anti-Fed, Ron Paul types.

Figures that it originated in relatively modern times.

[denem]

2. Jefferson (attribution)- back in the day when the debate was gold or silver

to back the currency. Metalism was ditched for sound reasons in the Great Depression. Credit is necessary for growth. In fact, money is, in essence, debt - a promise to pay, even when backed by gold. Regulation is essential to control banking. That was diluted by legislation in 1999, 2000, and in practice by the Bushies.

[Political Heretic]

12. "Metalism" wasn't ditched in the great depression - it was around until 1971.

[denem]

20. 1933: The right of the public to redeem paper in gold was abandoned.

In 1971, a system of fixed exchange rates theoretically based on gold, bit the dust.

[Political Heretic]

22. It wasn't theoretically based on gold. It was based on gold, until Nixon decoupled it.

Everyone based their currency on the dollar, and in turn the dollar was tied to a fixed gold price.

[denem]

26. The dollar could not be redeemed at the fixed price = theoretical.

[Political Heretic]

31. Establishes global currency value = not theoretical.

[denem]

33. No - the fixed exchange rates could be periodically varied.

The gold standard meant gold exchanged, including internationally, as an alternative to paper. One irredeemable rate without metal exchange did not establish value.

[Political Heretic]

35. Sigh... I feel like you are splitting hairs.

Some refer to the roughly 1940-1970 period has a system "similar to the gold standard." Some just refer to it as the post-war gold standard, or post-war international gold standard.

So potatoe, potato - whatever.

Our money system was in some way connected to gold, though not perhaps technically a "gold standard" by some definitions up until 1971 - how's that?

[Milspec]

45. Thanks denem and Heretic

That was interesting.

[Ken Burch]

29. Shouldn't "Metalism" mean "government of, by, and for Spinal Tap"?

[denem]

32. Headline: Heavy dollar sinking like a stone(d).

[William769]

4. Do you feel like a big man using the term "Homo" in a derogatory way?

If you do, this Homosexual would like to meet you face to face and discuss it.

[Ken Burch]

5. He was imitating right-wing rhetoric. He wasn't using that as a genuine slur

The entire phrase was Republican word salad.

It was probably also an allusion to Sean Penn's Academy Awards acceptance speech for "MILK".

[William769]

7. It's been a long night for me.

I think it's time for bed. Thanks for setting me curvy.

[Ken Burch]

27. Rest well, my friend. It's good to be wary, but sometimes you CAN trust...

...don't worry, we've got your "six".

[Political Heretic]

9. Nod, on both counts. :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Except 'PUMA' is an insult only in left wing circles

such as DU. So your list made me raise an eyebrow too.

[Political Heretic]

23. My list was broadly targeted at a wide range of assholes :)

I'm generous like that - mostly I just strung together a long list of insults typically used by people who can't be bothered to rationally engage... left or right.

[Ken Burch]

25. An insult in left wing circles, but also used in right-wing circles in '08

As a taunt and as a means to attempt to create(unsuccessfully, as it turned out)a gender-based wedge in the Democratic camp. The notion was that the "PUMA" movement(a movement that only really ever existed in the GOP "war rooms" and the fantasies of Faux News)could be used, along with the decision to put a woman on the GOP ticket(can't remember her name...wore glasses...looked like a "naughty librarian" porn character(or so I'm told)...did bad things to moose...you know the one)
would lead to a "miraculous" come-from-behind McCain landslide.

[Political Heretic]

8. Buy a clue.

:eyes:

[William769]

10. I have bought several

But the way DU has been lately, it's been hard to tell.

[Ken Burch]

30. True enough, it does get weird here sometimes.

n/t.

[Ken Burch]

28. Relax, he understands now...it's all good.

n/t.

[hobbit709]

34. Not a Jefferson quote

But he did have many unkind things to say about banks.

[Political Heretic]

36. Aye, I think we coverd that hehe

I stand corrected, though... I'm not sure how much I trust the confidence with which some assert it is without a doubt false.

That said, I wouldn't deliberately make it sound like it was confirmed to be someone's quote when it was at best uncertain and at worst conclusively not, so I'm glad to be corrected. :)

[hobbit709]

37. Here's a good source for many of his quotes

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeffcont.htm

[Political Heretic]

38. Oh wow thanks

That could keep my occupied for a long time :D

[WeDidIt]

39. Ya know, "attributing" quotes to "Founding Fathers" is as American

as apple pie.

It's also one of the most insidious forms of propaganda.

David Barton adopted the technique to try and prove there's no such thing as separation of church and state and the founding fathers really intended a Christian Theocracy.

So you're in great company there.

EPIC FAIL!

[Political Heretic]

41. Well it would be more insidious if Jefferson hadn't actually said many things just like this quote.

Such as the one you can find up thread in the snopes link explaining the misattribution of this quote.

So while yes, I got an education as to the dubious nature of this attribution - its not exactly propaganda, seeing as how Jefferson had very nasty things to say about banks, pretty much in complete keeping with the quote erroneously given to him.

[WeDidIt]

43. David Barton would be so proud

That's exactly the argument he used to justify his dishonesty when he was caught.

[Political Heretic]

44. Oh for fucks sake.

What do you want me to do? It was pointed out to me, I questioned it a little bit at first, then as the people up thread explained the deal to me, I simply accepted I made a mistake and said so. What else am I supposed to do?

The fact that Jefferson DID in fact feel this way about banks isn't my fault. I can't edit my OP so I can't change to a quote that Jefferson most certainly did give or else I would.

So... how would you have liked me to handle this differently so that you wouldn't need to be an asshole about it?

[WeDidIt]

49. Well here's what I'd like you to do

Next time you decide to pull a "quote" out that is alleged to have been spoken or written by a founding father, VERIFY IT FIRST.

That's all I'll ask.

[Political Heretic]

50. I'll do that when I'm writing professionally. I garunteed to do that before posting to a board.

This is a place for casual anonymous internet chat. I may or may not do investigative research before posting "hey check out this great quote I found" and having someone else correct me about its origin.

If I'm wrong about the origin of some cool quote, the community can correct me and we can all move on, minus the minority of people who get a burr up their ass over it.

Note that you're the only one being a dick here. The rest of people make the corrections, we talked about them, I ultimately accepted them and we all move moved on. :hi:

[WeDidIt]

54. Then I will give you shit for posting a bullshit quote

and I won't let up, either.

[walldude]

47. Homo?

[burning rain]

51. Where are godless communist lattes served?

That sounds like my kind of coffee shop! :D

[Hippo_Tron]

52. Jefferson wanted us all to be yeomen farmers and have no industrialization at all..

He also believed that the supply of land in the United States would be endless, so long as we just keep slaughtering the Indians and taking it from them.

Don't get me wrong, Jefferson was a crucial figure in our history and he is the reason that we have many of the liberties that we do today. But we would probably be a third world country if we had let him control economic policy.