Why so many defenders of GM? They are part of the Military Industrial Complex

[berni_mccoy]

Honda has more manufacturing plants in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world and NONE in Mexico. Do they need a bailout?

What about Toyota and Nissan? Both have many plants in the U.S. as well.

Maybe if they had been making HumVees and gas guzzlers, in bed with big-oil and living fat off of the Bush Administration failures for the last 8 years, they'd be in the same boat as well. But they aren't.

People here need to think about the facts before reacting negatively against the Obama administration. The knee-jerk reaction here is hitting embarrassing levels. Stop being fooled by the MSM.

[AllentownJake]

1. I could care less about Wagnoner

I care about the workers for that company.

[berni_mccoy]

2. As do most. But bailing out GM isn't the way to help them.

[AllentownJake]

4. Sure seems to be the way to help the banksters

all I'm saying.

[berni_mccoy]

8. Ok Krugman fanboi, what would have happened if AIG wasn't bailed out?

[high density]

10. GM would be thriving because the world economy would be rip roaringly good

:sarcasm:

[AllentownJake]

25. I put this avatar up there to make a point on how stupid the bots are

[NightWatcher]

3. I dont know how many are defending GM, but feeling bad for UAW

GM will use anything to violate the contracts of the Unions.

I personally think that the UAW should be given a govt loan to BUY GM. Let the Unions have a greater stake in seeing that GM is successful.

[berni_mccoy]

5. When has UAW not been abused by GM? How about when GM shipped thousands of jobs to Mexico?

How about when GM has sent jobs overseas to China?

Good riddance to a constant problem. The other manufactures will fill the void left by GM and they'll need workers to help do that.

[xchrom]

6. maybe you should check and see if japan is

'bailing out' some of these companies?

[berni_mccoy]

9. Honda has cut management salaries to avoid layoffs. They don't need a bailout.

[Blue_Tires]

14. Honda for decades has benefited from the Japanese Gov't shelter of protectionism

and that still didn't stop them from asking the feds for one back in the fall...

[berni_mccoy]

19. Honda doesn't need it. Toyota and Nissan didn't ask

And you need to prove your "protectionism" points.

[Blue_Tires]

23. .....

From CNN, 1992:
DOES JAPAN PLAY FAIR?
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1992/09/07/76836/index.htm

Japan has a few mentions in this piece
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Protectionism.html

Op-ed from Carl Levin:
Protectionism Is Like a Blockading Squadron; Japanese Practices
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/27/opinion/l-protectionism-is-like-a-blockading-squadron-japanese-practices-412191.html



REPORT: Toyota Financial seeking loans from Japanese gov't
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/03/report-toyota-financial-seeking-loans-from-japanese-govt/

Honda Seeks Tokyo Loan for U.S. Operations
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123616606827228383.html

S.Korea announces steps to support auto industry
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/03/26/afx6215394.html

[berni_mccoy]

24. Opeds aren't proof. And GM hasn't received bailout money already? To the tune of 13.4 billion.

When do you stop bleeding the taxpayer?

[Blue_Tires]

28. Then contact Levin youself and ask him to cite sources...

And the other links were to show that the foreign automakers are getting government money as well...

either way, i give up, mr. mccoy...for years I've gone blue in the face trying to defend american automakers, and all the time its becoming more difficult to the point of trying to siphon the ocean with a straw...All i can say is this: It is important to me personally that the automakers and the people they employ in this country survive, if anything just for a national morale boost (especially at a time when newspapers, banks and almost every type of small business is closing shop)...And I have friends in the business and friends in Detroit who aren't in the business but weep over their dying city...

I'm not gifted with the art of persuasion, so if I've failed to help you see how important it is to me and many others, the fault is mine...So now I'm on your bandwagon -- let them all die...Maybe GM can be reborn at 1/10th capacity as a re-badger for Chinese or Indian cars (maybe that's what they had planned all along)...Let the UAW and CAW go out of work (especially in this economy); at least there will be money to hire an army of cops to stem the inevitable crime wave...We can be just like the British, with their laughable shadow of a once-proud industry which is completely owned by foreign interests -- The failure of which, they of course blame on the unions...

[xchrom]

15. maybe you should check and see if japan has given 'bail out' money to these companies. nt

[berni_mccoy]

18. Maybe you should back up your statements with facts.

[xchrom]

27. you're the one who made the statements -- i'm suggesting you fill it in

with more evidence.

it was reported here bernie -- that japanes auto-makers approached their gov for money and received it.

you might star here --http://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-Nissan-Also-Seeking-Bail-out-Loan-From-Japan-41583/

'The news was first reported by NHK TV and Kyodo News. The reports said the financial unit may ask for 200 billion ($2.05 billion) in loans.
Toyota Financial Services is in talks with state-owned Japan Bank for International Cooperation, said Toyota Financial spokesman Toshiaki Kawai without confirming the timing or amount, Bloomberg reports.
The Associated Press also confirmed the reports. Toyota said no details had been decided.
The Japan Bank for International Cooperation declined comment on the reports, saying it doesn't comment on individual company matters'



more japan itself has some more protectionist trade policies that helps to prop up the home business -- although even in japan business has been down dramatically the past year.

you're misusing recent history to make a biased -- and not very fact filled point.
japanes auto-makers don't oppose a u.s. bailout and in fact seem to support it.
without the bailout it may very well disrupt a chain of suppliers -- dmaging japanes and korean auto-makers here.

you might start here for a beginning discussion on that notion

http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/why-japanese-automakers-support-detroit-rescue-plan

[azmouse]

7. Agreed. Pres Obama is letting the auto industry know that it will not be business as usual.

They will HAVE to make changes to survive. No alternatives. And no more tax money if they don't make changes.

[Blue_Tires]

11. first of all, they use union labor

second of all, they are still american companies, so the money (at least in theory) stays in the borders...

and if Detroit fails, it's not just GM/Ford/Chrysler in Detroit, it's everyone in their parts supply chain in subsidiaries all over the country

[berni_mccoy]

13. You seriously believe the money "stays in the borders"? Wow. Rich executive rake the profit

and send it to overseas tax shelters and foreign investments. Do you think they actually pay taxes on that profit too?

That's as naive as thinking the steel in the car is still made in the U.S. (or any other part for that matter).

[Blue_Tires]

16. well the alternative is sending it even more directly to Japan/Germany/Korea...

[berni_mccoy]

17. It's directly going to those places as well as China (where GM is focused it's attention now)

[Blue_Tires]

21. true, but i would hope that with all the fed money propping them up

the current administration could persuade the big 2.5 to keep more of the manufacturing base in the USA/Canada...

[Thrill]

12. I think they are just looking to pile on Obama

Even though they know this needed to be done

[BlueJac]

20. Your knee jerk is killing us all here.

[liberal N proud]

22. When GM and Chrysler go so will their suppliers

And all the jobs associate with those industries.

What will that do for economic recovery?


But billions more will be dumped into the well partied banks.

[berni_mccoy]

26. Unsubstantiated hyperbole. First, Obama hasn't said he *won't* bailout GM...

Second, some other auto maker (Ford, Honda, Nissan, Toyota) will pick up the market dropped by GM.

Those other automakers will need more suppliers to increase their market share.

[Blue_Tires]

29. doesn't work like that

if you make GM compatible parts, Honda just isn't going to instantly hire you out of the graciousness of their hearts to meet increasing deman...they are just going to get increased quantities from their own suppliers...

and for the foreseeable future, how much would you think demand would rise? who's buying?