Virginia Foxx (R-NC): “Democrats Have A Tar Baby On Their Hands”

[Are_grits_groceries]

When 88% of the country is upset about the AIG bonuses, I guess you have to get creative about voting against Alan Grayson's bill to limit the $1 billion more scheduled to be paid out this year. So Virginia Foxx goes on the floor of the House and says that Democrats have a "tar baby" on their hands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53rkhV-z54s&feature=player_embedded

http://firedoglake.com/

They are beyond words!!

[DevonRex]

1. Oh. My. God. Let's hope she's skewered for this. nt

[firedupdem]

2. I guess she forgot she wasn't at home with her family. n/t

[babylonsister]

3. Is stupidity a prerequisite to be a rethug? Sure seems so. nt

[Cha]

15. Yes..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8312794

[avaistheone1]

60. Most definitely.

[LynnTheDem]

4. America has far too many rightwingnut idiots on her hands.

Waaay too many.

[Aviation Pro]

5. And Foxx.....

...has a pornstar name on her hands.

[HillWilliam]

75. Too bad it doesn't fit her looks

She's from the district next to mine. The woman is as ugly as her politics, and equally nutty. Michelle Bachman has nothing on Foxx for batshit.

[Metta]

6. It's all us, lady. Your divisive actions are what creates divisions.

Happy karma. Don't take the warm clothes.

[Fire1]

7. Wow!!

:-(

[pscot]

8. I guess I just don't understand the outrage

over the use of the term tarbaby. As I recall, a tarbaby is a doll made of tar, by a fox, to catch a rabbit. Today we seem to see racial overtones in the image, but in the original tale, race is niether suggested nor implied. We could all stand to lighten up a little. If that's flamebait, I'm toast.

[SeattleGirl]

9. Regardless of the origins of tarbaby, it is now, and has long been,

a demeaning reference to blacks. So, it IS a big deal.

[givemebackmycountry]

10. Exactly

Like calling a small black child a "pickaninny"

Oh yeah, they did that too.

[ima_sinnic]

17. that is simply not true

it has never been used in relation to blacks. A "tar baby" is just what the poster above said: a doll made of tar to catch a fox in a folk tale.

It is now defined in Merriam Webster's 11th Collegiate as "something from which it is nearly impossible to extricate oneself." where's the "racism" in that?

[uponit7771]

20. WOW!!! Where in the hell do YOU live?!?!?!? I live in the United States of America.

Thx

[ima_sinnic]

22. can you use a dictionary?

what dictionary do you use?

[uponit7771]

23. I will, after you use some cultural awareness, deal? She might as well said the N word at the least

...she wouldn't be hiding behind words like a punk

[RebelOne]

64. I use the American Heritage Dictionary

and that term is not even in there.

[RepublicanElephant]

21. huh?

Although the term's provenance arose in African folklore, some Americans now consider "tar baby" to have negative connotations revolving around pejorative images of African-Americans.<2> Specific reasons why the term developed negative racial aspects are difficult to identify. In recent years, several politicians who have publicly used the term have encountered some controversy, mocking, and censure from African-American civil rights leaders, members of the popular daily media, and other politicians.<3><4><5><6><7><8> The criticisms of the 'tar baby' as racially driven icon could be interpreted as myopic, viz. the entire criticism seems to be rooted in the fact that tar is black. Regardless, the history of 'the tar baby' in its original form by far precedes the accusations of its racist associations.

In an interview, Toni Morrison said the following of its use in her book, in an acting of reclaiming: "Tar Baby is also a name, like 'nigger,' that white people call black children, black girls, as I recall…. At one time, a tar pit was a holy place, at least an important place, because tar was used to build things…. It held together things like Moses' little boat and the pyramids. For me, the tar baby came to mean the black woman who can hold things together." ("An Interview" 255) <9>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarbaby


know your history.

[ima_sinnic]

24. "some" people might regard it as racist, but only b/c the word was used

by a black story teller (Joel Chandler Harris) in a folk tale.

Check a dictionary. Merrian WEbster's does not add its usual "pejorative" that it adds to words like the n word.

[RepublicanElephant]

26. i don't need a dictionary to know when i've been insulted. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY

(which tracks actual usage):

tar-baby, (a) the doll smeared with tar, set to catch Brer Rabbit (see quot. 1881); hence transf., spec. an object of censure; a sticky problem, or one which is only aggravated by attempts to solve it (colloq.); (b) a derog. term for a Black (U.S.) or a Maori (N.Z.);

Now shut the fuck up.

[ima_sinnic]

41. so if you are white and I say, hey, you mofo snowman, is "snowman" now a banned term?

any word can be used "racistly."

what about meaning (a)? because some use the word in sense (b), can we never never NEVER EVER use the word in sense (a)? why even have a meaning (a)? you proved with your own example that the word is a legitimate word.

shut the fuck up yourself. as much as I hate repukes, the woman used it in the correct way.

now tell me that "niggardly" is racist, genius.

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. You said it wasn't in the dictionary

It is in the Oxford English Dictionary.

Game fucking over.

[vaberella]

53. +1. n/t

[biopowertoday]

57. ummm. thanks, very interesting it is not listed as perjorative.

[Raineyb]

76. If you check #28 you'd see the OED definition which does make the

pejorative notation.

Regards

[stillcool]

32. You are simply wrong...

please do not attempt to make a slur acceptable. Ignorance is no excuse...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tar+baby
Tar baby is a synonym for nigger, except that it is only used in bigoted manners, whereas nigger can be a sign of respect, if the speaker is also African American.

It comes from a children's story in which the dark skin and seeming ignorance (caused by a lack of schooling) of slaves were explained by the idea that black children were baptised in tar, which made them dark and dumb.

[vaberella]

52. You are so WRONG it's not even funny. n/t

[trof]

66. Many people confuse 'tarbaby' remark with 'tarbrush'.

I agree completely with you about what a tarbaby is, a sticky situation you can't let go of.

Some people, especially colonial Brits in Africa, used to refer to a person of mixed black/white racial heritage as having a 'touch of the tar brush'.

[mkultra]

79. holy christ your dense

Yes, you have the dictionary meaning. Well done. Guess what, the word niger is latin for black.

every racial slur on the plant either starts as or is derived from a standard use word that is used repeatedly as derogatory slang.

Tar Baby is both the doll made to catch brer rabbit and a slur from the 70's

[Arugula Latte]

80. You are wrong, imma_sinnic. It has INDEED been used as a racial slur.

Many, many times.

[Hellataz]

27. That's what I thought she meant, man I hope she gets called out on it!

[BlooInBloo]

46. Pfft. If only white folks would stick together better - we could deny ANYTHING has a racist history.

White unity is the ticket!

:rofl:

[vaberella]

54. White Power ----in that weird Southern accent.

:rofl:

[firedupdem]

56. I heard that shit right here in NE last summer as I was driving along

a road. I thought I was in the twilight zone. I'm from Chicago and then Detroit...we don't hear that mess. But I can laugh now. :rofl:

[vaberella]

61. Yeah, coming from those two towns there's no way you'd hear that crap.

It'd be taken care of quick if someone spouted that. I'm from NYC---the five boroughs, the only time I've ever heard it is during those study on racism programs on Discovery Channel or A&E. Although I found out a girl in my elementary school had written WP (White Power) next to her name on my graduation school year book when I was in school with her. It blew my mind because she was half Irish and half Indian and when she was growing up she got a lot of shit for being half Indian. At this point I put it down to poor education growing up and she's learned her lessen.

[Uzybone]

12. Hahaha, lets lighten up when racial slurs are used

Geez. Don't you guys have a sense of humor?

[ima_sinnic]

25. apparently, if people "think" it's racist, it is

whatever. idiotic.

[stillcool]

34. Apparently if people have no knowledge..

about something, it means it doesn't exist.

[Raineyb]

70. A lesson about holes

When you find yourself in one stop digging.

Just stop already. You're wrong, you've been proven wrong and you're making yourself look like a bigger asshole.

Just stop.

Regards

[MadMaddie]

36. Considering the state she comes from and the position she

currently holds she knows exactly what she said.

It was inappropriate. Remember when these types of statements are not challanged they escalate because silence means acceptance.

She could have chosen many other descriptive words to emphasize her point.

[polmaven]

86. Other descriptive words...

like...Oh, I dunno...like "dilemma".....Hmmmm.

Grow up, Representative Foxx.....Get the h over yourself. Try speaking English rather than KKKlish

[goclark]

123. You are so right ~ she has a lot of nerve

and watch her get a pass.

[Raineyb]

125. It only took 8 responses to find one

:grr:

Regards

[Supersedeas]

124. the state of denial.

[nini]

77. I guess you've never been insulted based on your race

If you REALLY can't see why this is an insult you need to get out more into the real world to see how it is.

[yurbud]

85. the tarbaby didn't look like a white kid...it's not the most offensive thing but

I can see why some people get up in arms about it.

[gmoney]

105. Here's all the proof you need...

This goes back to the mid-70s... I'm sure most of these "racist terms" aren't identified as such in the dictionary, but there's no doubt when viewed in context.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/chevy-chase-and-richard-pryor/4088166226/?icid=VIDLRV06

This lady is merely speaking code... letting the voters of SC know she don't cotton to the current president.

[lumberjack_jeff]

109. I think there must be a strong regional/cultural element.

Like you, I'm about as far from the deep south as it is possible to get and still be in this country. Although I've never heard anyone here use the phrase, from where I sit it seems a somewhat benign metaphor based in a traditional folk tale.

Clearly people from other parts of the country see it as more offensive. I have to conclude that we just don't have the background to get it.

[Fire1]

114. Many black people migrated to the industrial north. Such as

myself. A very large percentage of Detroiters are citizens 'by the way of' some southern state and don't need a dictionary to know 'tar baby' is a racial slur.

[tledford]

120. The story of the tar baby is from "Tales of Uncle Remus" ...

An old, black "uncle." Ignorance of a racist implication doesn't mean it isn't there.

[RollWithIt]

11. I swear, if I was a Northern, Midwestern, or Western Republican I would seriously HATE the south...

I mean, wtf is with these Southern Republicans? At least the Southerners on our side ARE ON OUR SIDE. The Southern Republicans seem intent on reliving the Civil War or something.

[damntexdem]

13. Racism -- oh how very creative can she get?

Virginia Foxx (Racist-NC). Not just beyond words, well beyond the Pale.

[WeDidIt]

14. Why do Republicans HATE comedy writers?

Seriously, every time a REpublican opens her/his mouth, a comedy writer loses his/her job because the jokes just write themselves.

[RepublicanElephant]

16. yes! keep 'em coming, gop. prove to everyone what a farce that black rnc chairman is. nt

[uponit7771]

18. WOW ..............WTF?!!?

[CreekDog]

19. Where the heck is she from? The 19th Century?

who even has "tar baby" in their vocabulary? :wtf:

[Raineyb]

71. The late Tony Snow

Jackasses were defending his use of the term as well.

:shrug:

Regards

[MellowDem]

29. In its original meaning...

it makes perfect sense for the way it was said and has nothing to do with racism. I didn't know that tar baby was always thought of as racist, no matter the context. It doesn't seem to me that he would use a word that is the equivalent of the n word to describe the situation on the floor of the House. We really need to stop crying "racist" so much. There are multiple meanings to many words and context says a lot.

[RepublicanElephant]

30. not when it's coming from that old southern belle. nt

[MellowDem]

33. Whoops didn't know it was a woman... nt

[ima_sinnic]

44. that doesn't matter--she used it exactly correctly, as you said originally

[MellowDem]

63. I know, just like to be grammatically correct : ) nt

[polmaven]

87. Ummm...you didn't know

Virginia Foxx is a woman?

[MellowDem]

102. I looked at the wrong name!

B-)

[stillcool]

35. Urban Dictionary...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tar+baby
Tar baby is a synonym for nigger, except that it is only used in bigoted manners, whereas nigger can be a sign of respect, if the speaker is also African American.

It comes from a children's story in which the dark skin and seeming ignorance (caused by a lack of schooling) of slaves were explained by the idea that black children were baptised in tar, which made them dark and dumb.

[MellowDem]

37. urban dictionary as your source...

that says it all.

[stillcool]

38. are you serious?

where is it you look up cultural slurs? Or do you prefer to pretend that you don't know?

[MellowDem]

42. I just read some of the definitions of tar baby on there

and it's funny and sad at the same time. No, urban dictionary does not have the answer for cultural slurs. Anyone can post there and cultural slurs have very many different meanings depending on the locale. Look at some of the other definitions of tar baby on there. You could probably find a lot more out there as well, along with where the word "supposedly" came from. Urban dictionary has a lot of urban legends on it.

And even urban dictionary includes the original meaning. Tar baby does not have just one meaning. I prefer to understand things through legitimate sources and not pretend that I know something from looking it up on urban dictionary.

[stillcool]

45. Oh...believe me..I'm not 'pretending' to know..

that tar-baby is and has been a racial slur for a very long time. I have had the experience of those words used as they were intended. Don't think because you don't know something, it isn't real.

[MellowDem]

62. Nevers said it wasn't...

your personal experience is much more valid than urban dictionary. And I already said that tar baby has more than one meaning, including being a racial slur.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. Urban dictionary is the least credible source of information out there.

It's like wikipedia, only without any moderation.

Really, it's for awkward, white, Ned Flanders type people who are worried about the kids on their lawn.

[stillcool]

107. I use it often..

but then I know the usage of phrases/words before I go there...I like to use their definitions, as my own interpretations are often as bad as the slur itself. I haven't seen slang/slurs defined anywhere else with accuracy. I have no idea what 'credibility' has to do with the use of derogatory language in our society. Lots of phrases are time specific and regional. Just because you may not have heard it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Raineyb]

72. You of all people ought not open your trap when it comes to the definition of racist terms

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. There is no non-racist context for a southern white woman to use the word tar-baby. And she knew exactly what she was saying and she knew what message was she was sending when she said it.

As per usual you have never seen a racial incident that you couldn't make an excuse for. Do us all a favor, you have nothing intelligent, insightful, nor useful to add to the conversation, go away and let the people who aren't ignorant and unwilling to learn have this discussion. Your ignorance will only turn this into a flame war.

[Occam Bandage]

31. "tar baby" is something akin to "niggardly."

Given its origins it shouldn't be offensive, but it is, and "is" trumps "should."

[ima_sinnic]

43. and I will continue to use the perfectly fine word "niggardly"

in order to separate the ignorant from the educated

[jberryhill]

50. What you fail to realize

...is that, yes, you are educated.

Not everyone is, and there are various reasons why they may or may not be.

To use a somewhat uncommon word in a context where the less educated may take offense is simply to be insensitive.

And that does not make you "smart", it merely demonstrates that you are stupid in a way that you do not appreciate.

You may engage in whatever form of intercourse makes you gay - but it may retard your effort to communicate.

Failure to be sensitive, even to those less educated than yourself, is simply a demonstration of your own ignorance.

[Occam Bandage]

55. I find this sentence deliciously pithy:

And that does not make you "smart", it merely demonstrates that you are stupid in a way that you do not appreciate.

[annabanana]

68. *!*

This is the reason for good manners. No one wins in the game of communication when someone feels attacked, whether that feeling is "logical" or not..

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

67. If you were educated, you'd understand the concept of perception vs. reality. (nt)

[mkultra]

82. why not use niger. Its an actual latin term

Or does that not meet your personal definition of a racial slur?

[jberryhill]

48. A very good point...

I have this argument with my wife all of the time.

Niggardly is a perfectly fine word.

However, as it is prone to misinterpretation by those not familiar with this somewhat arcane word, it is best avoided.

[CakeGrrl]

39. Black woman here who's not too outraged, but

politicians should at least have the good sense to steer clear of any hot-button terms. If she was too insular to realize that it could be perceived as offensive, then too bad for her.

:evilgrin:

[ccharles000]

40. She brings NC to shame

Thank god she is not my rep(I have Brad Miller NC-13)

[Cha]

49. No, Virginia..you have

shit on your hands.:silly:

[Supersedeas]

51. Winston Salem can be so proud -- Go Wake

[classysassy]

58. Mrs Foxx

welcome to the 21 century,you forgot to leave your 20th century racism behind.

[jobycom]

59. I'm confused. What's the issue? Does someone think that's a racist term or something?

Tar baby is an old term meaning a sticky situation that you can't get rid of (you don't throw away a baby even if it's covered in tar). Clearly she's using the term to describe the bill. I guess if she were refering to Obama I could see maybe why someone might think it was racist.

I don't get it. What am I missing? :shrug:

[RebelOne]

65. Definition, according to the MSN Encarta Encyclopedia is

- tricky situation: a very troublesome situation, especially one that is difficult or impossible to get out of.

[Are_grits_groceries]

69. I started this, and I have one bloody question.

Why are people looking up anything in the dictionary to determine if something is a racial slur??
What plays on the streets is probably not even in there unless it is older. Tarbaby has long been used as a raciaL slur. Foxx is someone who very well knows that. She wants to play coy with words. She wants to have her slur, and fling it too.

There may be some people at rare times that I might give the benefit of the doubt. Foxx isn't even close.

[jobycom]

73. I didn't look it up in the dictionary, I grew up in the most racist part of the South, and I've neve

heard it used as a racist term. Not once. It's pretty arcane in the first place, so it's not something I even hear much, but every time I've heard it, it was used the way I and others say it is used--to mean a sticky situation, having zero, nada, nothing, not once ever, anything at all to do with race. I've never even heard it used to talk about a person, it is always used to talk about a dilemma.

And it's clearly used that way in the clip in the OP.

Now, I don't know everything, I haven't been everywhere, I haven't heard everything, so I could easily have missed some recent development, which is why I asked a question--one you sort of just answered--as to why you thought it was a bad thing she said. I asked if you thought it was a racist comment, based on what some people said in the thread. Apparently that is the issue, you think she uttered a racist comment. Now I will look up the phrase in the dictionary to see if there is a history of it being used that way. I've just never heard it used that way, and I've always heard it used the original way the phrase was meant.

I grew up in Mississippi in the 70s and 80s, and have lived in Texas ever since. Racism is one of my key issues--the rest of them being every other form of hatred and bigotry. I'm attuned to it and pay close attention to it and never give anyone the benefit of the doubt. The rep in that clip clearly uses the phrase the way I've always heard it used--to refer to a sticky situation. She may be wrong, but I didn't hear one thing that even hinted anything racist. That's why my post, a couple up from here, was a question about what you had seen in the clip that was upsetting.

[jobycom]

74. And to follow up my own post, I have now looked it up in the dictionary

only to see what racist connotation others see in it, and see zero, nada, nilch, no reference at all that it has anything to do with race in any direct or indirect way. Burden of proof has shifted to you. Where have you heard or seen this used in a racial way?

[Raineyb]

78. Check response #28

It's from the Oxford English Dictionary.

This is really fucking ridiculous. To think that someone has to show a word in the dictionary to prove that it's a racist term is un-fucking-believable.

I am really appalled at the cluelessness of people who somehow delude themselves into thinking they're enlightened.

Regards

[jobycom]

81. Alright, well then you've found it. But I will say that I read the first six entries

when I googled, and saw no hint of a racist use, and to this day I still have not heard the word used in any racial manner, and I use the word from time to time myself. I will stop now, but not because I think it has any racial connotation whatsoever, but only because the meaning of the phrase will now be clouded. Like "queer." I can still use it the old way, but it would cloud my meaning to do so.

As for your attacks on people who have never heard the word used the way you claim it is used, sorry. That's your problem, your shortcoming as a person. This is a common phrase with a commonly-understood meaning. If it is now used differently, some of us have to catch up. We aren't all god-like in our omniscience. If any common word suddenly became pejorative, it would take people a while to learn that.

[Raineyb]

88. You're right it is my problem. My problem is I live in a country that disrespects

large numbers of its citizenry and when called on it doesn't have the balls to fucking apologize for it. My problem is I live in a country where I don't fucking matter. My problem is that people who claim to be on the same side as I am are just as fucking dismissive of me and mine as the rest of society. And it is certainly my problem that people who are never on the receiving end of racism in this country insist on telling me what is or is not racism as though they know better than I. And it is my problem that I am not inclined to allow such ignorance to continue unchallenged.

But the ignorant, the stupid, the racist, they have no problems at all, they are not part of the problem. No the problem is me. I got it. Thanks.

Regards

[jobycom]

90. I will now follow you around DU, and the first time you ask an honest question

or show ignorance of anything that someone else knows, I will insult your intelligence, intent, character, and everything else. That's how you treat me, so that seems to be how you think people should be treated.

I've never heard the word used that way. I can't find any online dictionary entry to claim it is used that way. I can only find a few assertions from others that it has ever been used that way, and even those assertions claim it is not usually used that way. I am not even convinced that the OED entry above is legite, and will look it up after work at the library, since I don't have the OED at my house. So don't get high and mighty on people who have never heard the word used the way you say it is sometimes used. I'd react the same way if you told me the word "rock" actually meant "book," or any other common phrase meant something else. I've never heard it used that way, and calling people racist or stupid for never having heard a racist term is stupid, and says more about you than about me.

[NatBurner]

96. maybe this will help

http://tinyurl.com/d3vj6p

[jobycom]

98. Yeah, I did that. Read the links instead of just looking at the headlines.

Aside from a few individual assertions, most of them show that it wasn't racist in origin or that it is rarely used that way now. Notice the video of John Kerry using the term, and someone trying to claim that he is therefore a racist? That's most of what I see--people misinterpreting the phrase to attack someone else who used the phrase in a non-racist way.

[NatBurner]

101. if you did that already, then why are you still so confused?

you're acting like just because it's not described as a slur in webster's, then it's not a slur

as someone else said up there- i don't need a dictionary to tell me when i've been insulted

like webster's is the be all end all

if someone called me a "jig", for instance, webster's would think i was just called a dance, a fishing lure, or a game

the urban dictionary (which you discount) and millions of black ppl, on the other hand, etc etc

you can be obtuse if you want to, but try going to MLK Blvd, Anytown, USA, and yelling "tarbaby" and see if you don't get your ass kicked

[Raineyb]

100. It's not the ignorace that's the problem

It's the part where when someone schools you on it you argue with them and imply you know more about the topic than they do.

You said you didn't know. Fine. There's a dictionary definition on this thread with the definition including the notation that it's used as a pejorative. You've learned something. Congratulations, now perhaps next time someone points it out to you you won't dismiss their concerns because you never heard it before.


Your post was merely one of a number of posts that could be used to illustrate a very disturbing trend I find when discussing race on this board. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that just because they never heard something used as a racist term it means that whoever claims that it is one is just making shit up to bring race into something where it doesn't belong. That is not the case. As it is Tar Baby is an older term but if we had a sense of history around here this conversation wouldn't even have had to happen in the first place. No you personally have never heard that particular slur. It doesn't mean it isn't one. The problem I'm having is this. The OP says: OMG I can't believe Rep. Fox used that word. Then somewhere down the line someone else says "Well I never heard of that as a racist term. It's not one." Then when they're told it is by numerous people including using a dictionary definition they still insist that it's not a racist term. And then you wonder why someone would get pissed off about this? Every time you dismiss people in this way you are basically saying "I know more than you even though this is something you'd have more experience in than I. What you say doesn't matter STFU until I need you to back me up on something." It's the type of unconscious shit that we deal with all the time. I am merely trying to point it out to you so that perhaps you'd think twice the next time. I am not the only one who gets annoyed by this type of thing. I am probably just more vocal about it.

Yes my response was a bit sarcastic but you did basically say that the insistence of those who would continue to argue that a racial slur isn't one is my problem. What exactly did you expect me to say?

I clearly must have fallen short of your expectation since your response was to threaten to stalk me for the sole purpose of finding a mistake or find something in which I am ignorant so that you may make fun of me.

Are you annoyed with my use of the word ignorant? Surely you don't expect me not to use the word ignorant when that's exactly what we're dealing with. Lack of knowledge = ignorance. If that's an insult to your intelligence than your perception says more about you than it does me. I was speaking broadly this is not about you. It is not always about you you know.

Regards

[Fire1]

115. DAMN!! I GOT TO DITTO, THAT!!!

[Are_grits_groceries]

84. I have lived in the South too.

I've heard it slung as a racist slur. It can be used in a nonracist way. However, I will not give Ms.Foxx one inch of doubt having heard from her before. She is a bigot who would as soon slyly use this and then proclaim her complete innocence.

[jobycom]

89. When, where, what era, how was it used? This is really surprising to me

since the term is rather arcane, most of the people who use it aren't the dumb redneck types who hurl epithets. Have you heard it used in a way other than the clip above, where the intention isn't obvious and the meaning clearly aligns with the normal meaning of the phrase? I never have, and racism has always been a big issue with me. I'll grant that anyone who knows me knows not to use pejoratives around me unless they want a tongue-lashing (bosses included), but even so I think I'd have picked it up, having lived next door to KKK members and having worked with white seperatists and white supremacists and the sort. I've heard a lot of otherwise-innocent terms used that way, but this is beyond question absolutely the only time I've heard tar baby had a racist connotation. Frankly, I'm going to the library after work to look up the OED definition listed above, since I still can't find anything other than a couple of odd articles claiming it has a racist meaning.

How was it used? When? This has to be a very recent development.

[Are_grits_groceries]

91. No, it's not a recent development.

I grew up with Joel Chandler Harris and his Uncle Remus stories. I have always avoided the term because of how it was used by some people I was around. Some of them were relatives. They could use it in a nonpejorative way, but a lot of times it was another epithet. I've avoided any use of the term because I don't want any misunderstanding.

[CBR]

92. After reading this I turned to my husband and asked,

"Have you ever heard tar baby used as a racial slur?" He laughed and said, "Of course, many times." He grew up in Lynchburg, VA for reference.

[jobycom]

97. Thanks.

So I'm too old and too far south, I guess.

[jobycom]

93. That doesn't tell me where or when.

I can say I grew up in South Mississippi during desegregation and bussing and never heard it used pejoratively. When and where was it used as a racist term?

As I said above, I'll avoid using the term now, just because of the assertion that it is sometimes used racially, but I've never heard it used that way, and I grew up in a society and culture that knew the Uncle Remus stories and "Song of the South" very well.

[CBR]

94. He says as a substitute for the N-word...

He is 27, so 1990s. I am not saying there may not be confusion about the word or that it is used in a variety of ways but, as an African-American, he has been the victim of its use, so I tend to trust his perspective.

[Are_grits_groceries]

95. In SC.

From the 50's on. I don't hear it as much because I stay well away from certain places. I didn't record the remarks.
I stay away from most family gatherings and certain places because I know what I will hear. And no I don't know the last time. Around 2000........... Good grief.

[Fire1]

116. Try Kentucky in the 40's and 50's.

[AyanEva]

126. *scratches head*

I was always under the impression that it was a racial slur. I never knew there was any other connotation, tbh.

I grew on the Eastern Shore of MD. I never heard it used against anyone (or used at all, for that matter) but it was thought of as a slur by most (older) Blacks that I knew.

ETA: By older, I mean people around my parents' ages which is mid to late 50s.

[csziggy]

99. I grew up in Florida with relatives in Alabama and never heard it used racially

But times have changed and I can see how it could be twisted for a racist slur. Or how those who are not familiar with "The Tar-Baby", by Joel Chandler Harris, 1904, and associated Uncle Remus tales, could misconstrue the reference.

So I agree to some extent with those taking offense. In this day and age, I think that was a poor choice of words to use in Congress even if the original reference was perfectly appropriate.

[ieoeja]

108. It certainly is not a recent development.

I grew up in the Bible Belt during the 60s and heard it numerous times. I have seen froathing at the mouth racists in documentaries from all eras screaming it. You hear it from Klansmen on TV. I have heard it used in a racist manner my entire life.

I guess you've just been hard-to-believably lucky.

The single most common racist epithet I hear nowadays is "monkey" followed closely by "darkie". "Monkey" is another word that can be used in a non-racist way, but I imagine you do at least hear THAT used in a racist manner?

Or, maybe not. Maybe down in Tejas "nigger" is socially acceptable so that you don't have to come up with other epithets.

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. I don't agree with the premise.

The context of what she said; "a sticky problem" seems that the usage is reasonable. The objections to it seem to be based solely on the fact that she is a white Republican from the south.

Given that, can an equally good argument be made that african americans should not refer to baked salty treats as "crackers"?

Certainly, in some contexts the word itself can be considered a racist pejorative.

[yurbud]

83. I think that's what Democrats get when they try to be bipartisan--the corruption and bile sticks to

them.

[MurrayDelph]

103. Anyone not old-enough to recognize the term,

should look at this Saturday Night Live routine from 1975, with Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/1477/saturday-night-live-word-association

[gmoney]

106. Yeah, I duped this "proof" myself above... (eom)

[styersc]

111. They can't help but step in it evertime they speak!!!

And in regard to your screen name- hell yeah grits is groceries!!!!

[Fire1]

117. You're right b/c their mind set HAS NOT CHANGED!!!

[SIMPLYB1980]

112. Damn I'm ashamed this "lady" is from my state.

:puke:

[Catherine Vincent]

113. Is she over 60?

It's usually older people that still use that term. It was even used in a presidential debate by none other than Ross Perot.

[FudaFuda]

118. I'll get pissed over this when Obama's 'special olympics' comment gets the scorn it deserved. n/t

[Fire1]

119. Who asked you to get pissed? NOBODY.

[firedupdem]

122. Who cares if you get pissed? n/t

[jberryhill]

121. A "Tar Baby" Proposal

Henceforth, such situations or issues shall be called:




Chinese finger-traps!